UNLV Cheating Scandal

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OK... a UNLV'er has been reading this and needs to weigh in.
I too see it as an "innocent mistake" because they were not IN ANY WAY HARMING PATIENTS OR DOING ANYTHING TO MERIT THEM FOR GRADUATION, but 90% of the class seemed to find a way to get it done without the shortcut. And from someone at UNLV, using passwords for faculty stuff is NOT something that is "casually" done, so they knew to some degree that something was up and should have investigated it before using it. BUT... the main issue is they DID commit fraud. Point blank. There is no way around that. Plus, the thing that bothers me the most is the punishment recommended by the HONORS COUNCIL (the purpose of the damn thing) was overturned and deemed "too harsh" by ONE man. I just don't get that. Why even have the group if you are not going to respect their decision? They were the select few that had ALL of the facts and weighed the decision very heavily. And afterward, that is the punishment they came up with. That was be enough for me to say "Ok... I guess that is what should be done."

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sweetgemini said:
Mods, I am going to publish the names and link it here.

We have asked you not to publicize the names as it is inappropriate and is a violation of the TOS. If you do so the post will be deleted and your account will be banned.
 
unlvdmd said:
but 90% of the class seemed to find a way to get it done without the shortcut.

Are you sure about that? Lets not forget that it was 10 people that got CAUGHT. Lord only knows how many others could have been doing the same thing under the same assumption that they were allowed to proceed with chart audits using a faculty login. Perhaps there was no way to get it done without the shortcut.

I myself have been in situations where I finish my days clinical work, and all the overseeing faculty have GONE HOME, leaving me with unauthorized progress notes and ungraded procedures. I have the benefit of time, however. I'm not graduating any time soon. I can wait till next week when the particular instructor I need is back in clinic and have them authorize my notes and grade me for the previous weeks work.

These fourth years who had to do all these thousands of chart audits didn't have time on their side. They needed faculty right there, right then. I will say from experience, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. Faculty is hardly ever where you need them when you need them. Again, making it entirely plausible that a faculty member would provide a temporary login for the students and their chart audits.

So, are you REALLY sure that 90% of the rest of the students found a way to get everything done without a shortcut? Are the people that get pulled over for traffic tickets the only ones who speed?

And UNLVdmd, you contradict yourself a bit. You begin by saying you believe a lot of this was an innocent mistake, but then claim that in no uncertain terms these people commited fraud. You can't have it both ways.

You can't say someone made an innocent mistake, but they are still guilty of premeditated first degree murder.

You also mention the honors council and how their RECOMMENDATION was OVERTURNED. The sole purpose of the honors council is to make RECOMMENDATIONS, nothing more. You can't OVERTURN a recommendation. You can either choose to proceed with it or not. The dean chose not to. Think of it in terms of presidential advisors. Their job is to give the president advice and suggestions on how to proceed in a certain situation, but THEY ARE NOT THE PRESIDENT. In the end, the president calls the shots.
 
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For us future UNLV'ers, I'd like to know what the general consensus is among current UNLV dental students regarding this "scandal".

Do you feel it has tainted the UNLV SDM?
Would you still recommend the school to your pre-dent peers?
Are you happy with your overall experience at the UNLV SDM?

I personally think this has blown way out of proportion and smells of political fluff. I hope it is handled quickly and appropriately so we can start discussing more important items.
 
This is the last time anyone will be warned on this.

Do not post any information about the people involved or purportely involved in this situation. SDN is not the place to *out* people...these are professional forums and posts with someone else's personal information is a violation of the Terms of Service you all agreed to when you registered.
 
Mo- Why doesn't it make sense to say innocent mistake= fraud? At the time, the students were overwhelmed and thought it was logical to use the password to get things done quicker--> innocent mistake. They USED AN UNAUTHORIZED PASSOWORD --> fraud. Makes sense to me. And I am nearly 100% sure (never say 100%) that the students who used any type of unauthorized password to do the audits would have been outed. ONE- because they know what times/etc the prof was at school and he would know who he met with. TWO- word gets around. If there were others out there with different passwords, they would have been outed, no doubt. And the whole "overturned" "recommendation" stuff. Whatever... go back to watching West Wing. I don't care about presidents or what have you. All I know is that a committee dedicated to "student conduct" spent hours and hours reviewing the facts and came up with a punishment that they saw fit (kind of like... oh i dont know... a JURY). And it was totally ignored. If their suggested punishment would have gone through do you really think the community would be outraged like they are? I don't think so.
 
unlvdmd said:
Mo- Why doesn't it make sense to say innocent mistake= fraud? At the time, the students were overwhelmed and thought it was logical to use the password to get things done quicker--> innocent mistake. They USED AN UNAUTHORIZED PASSOWORD --> fraud. Makes sense to me.

fraud
A noun
1 fraud, fraudulence, dupery, hoax, humbug, put-on
something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage

Still make sense to you?
 
Seriously? :rolleyes: You are putting forth quite the effort to defend people who, cut and dry, used a licensed doctor's password without authorization. Simple as that. Who are you protecting/campaigning for? Yourself? Why the ENORMOUS effort to convince us here that what was done wasn't wrong? It's starting to get a little fishy. No more posts from me here... I've stated my peace. :cool:
 
unlvdmd said:
Mo- Why doesn't it make sense to say innocent mistake= fraud? At the time, the students were overwhelmed and thought it was logical to use the password to get things done quicker--> innocent mistake. They USED AN UNAUTHORIZED PASSOWORD --> fraud. Makes sense to me. And I am nearly 100% sure (never say 100%) that the students who used any type of unauthorized password to do the audits would have been outed. ONE- because they know what times/etc the prof was at school and he would know who he met with. TWO- word gets around. If there were others out there with different passwords, they would have been outed, no doubt. And the whole "overturned" "recommendation" stuff. Whatever... go back to watching West Wing. I don't care about presidents or what have you. All I know is that a committee dedicated to "student conduct" spent hours and hours reviewing the facts and came up with a punishment that they saw fit (kind of like... oh i dont know... a JURY). And it was totally ignored. If their suggested punishment would have gone through do you really think the community would be outraged like they are? I don't think so.

UNLVDMD - OK, you have totally lost me here.

Innocent Mistake = Fraud? NO Innocent Mistake = Innocent Mistake.

You cash your paycheck at the local casino, (happens all the time in Las Vegas) they pay you in hundred dollar bills. You go to your bank to make your car payment. You count out three $100 bills. The teller shoves each one under a black light and identifies one of the bills as counterfeit. Innocent mistake yes? Is that equal to you trying to perpetrate fraud on the bank? NO, of course not, because you DID NOT KNOW one of the bill was counterfeit. One of the necessary elements of the commission of a crime is the intent to commit the crime, with certain exceptions in quasi-criminal matters such as speeding where there is no burden to show that you knowingly had the intent to exceed the speed limit.

Now you proceed to say:

"At the time, the students were overwhelmed and thought it was logical to use the password to get things done quicker..."

NO that is not correct for all students, they didn't think it was logical to use the password, they thought they were AUTHORIZED to use the password.

"At the time, the students were overwhelmed and thought it was logical to use the password to get things done quicker..."

If students used the password knowing it to be stolen and unauthorized, rationalizing it's use because they were overwhelmed and it was logical to get things done quicker is NOT an innocent mistake, it is unethical, plain and simple.

Now let me ask you this. (Each year of students is divided into teams for those of you not familiar with UNLV) Have you also heard the rumor that other teams had been given the password by full-time faculty members to facilitate the chart audits? However, these students were not brought under scrutiny because of either #1. They were actually given authority to use the password, or #2. Because these instructors were there every day, no one could discriminate between whether it was a student who signed in using the full-time instructor's password, or whether it was the instructor themselves who signed in.

Using an UNAUTHORIZED PASSWORD is not the issue at all. It is whether the student knowingly used the password, knowing it to be stolen or not authorized. Just like the crime is not in passing a counterfeit $100 bill it is passing it knowing that it was counterfeit. Is this making sense to you? One of my two Master's Degrees is in Criminal Law.

Using the password, of a part-time instructor, when you know the instructor isn't even there that day, and that your use of the password will be logged, and documented, when you only have 6 weeks left until graduation, what idiot does that if he/she doesn't think they are authorized to do so?

Now I understand that some people's use of this password goes all the way back to November. That might send up a red flag to me. But 6 weeks to go and you risk it all using a password you KNOW IS STOLEN?

That's akin to the people who have used the password since November being the guy who tries to pay for his car payment with three counterfeit $100 bills. The cops are called and find $5000 more in counterfeit bills in his car.

Look at that compared to the person who uses a password after passing the boards, completing competencies, has 6 weeks left to go for graduation and uses a password he thinks he is authorized to use, and the guy that makes a $356 car payment and a $1 bill of the $356 is counterfeit.

Gee is there any difference in the credibility you might give to the people in these two scenarios in who might have known and had intent to do wrong, and who may have been innocent with no intent?

Yet in the big world of UNLV SODM justice, everyone gets their heads lobbed off. Oh you have used the password since November? In fact you were the first one to use the password? My that makes me think you might be STUDENT ZERO, the one who stole the password! OK, off with your head. OK, you had six weeks to go, you swear you thought you were authorized to use the password and all you used it for was chart audits. Well we have no information to dispute what you say, no evidence to the contrary, your involvement was obviously different than this person we think stole the password, so I tell you what we are going to do. "OFF WITH YOUR HEAD", BUT we will sharpen the knife a little.

As far as overturning the honors board recommendations, perhaps if there had been some "punishment fits the crime" rationale used by the honors board, their recommendations might have been upheld.

REPEATING their entire 4th year? Is there some indication that any of these individuals did not complete all of the 4th year requirements? If they did, then why would you have them repeat their fourth year? I could understand if the recommendation was that they spend another year at the school providing their services free of charge. And what about that fine of $75,000? Is the intent to punish these people, or to completely destroy them financially? They all have student loans, none of them have had a job for 4 years.

Why is the public so stirred up? Because these 10 students have been accused of everything but the assassination of JFK. CHEATING SCANDAL. That's how the headlines read. To me that implies that they changed their grades, that they didn't do the required work, that they really don't know how to perform as dentists. I would be outraged as well. I don't want a school to graduate people who have cheated on tests, and really don't know how to perform dental procedures. And the honors board recommendation that they be required to repeat their fourth year implies just that. That they did not complete the requirements of their fourth year. That they cheated on the required knowledge to become a dentist.

So I need to ask you, as you appear to already have your DMD and are apparently in the graduating class, how many charts did you have to audit? How long, on the average, did it take for you to get an instructor to sign off on an audited chart? Precisely what kinds of things needed to be changed on these audited patient charts? I understand there was a multiple page document outlining precisely how the charts were to be audited, is this true?

Thanks!

DRJIC
 
unlvdmd said:
Who are you protecting/campaigning for? Yourself? Why the ENORMOUS effort to convince us here that what was done wasn't wrong? It's starting to get a little fishy.

Did I not already indicate that I am a close friend to some of those involved? And I have repeatedly said that I'm not trying to EXCUSE what happened as complete and total innocence on their parts, and I have continually maintained that all involved DESERVE punishment for failing to ensure that their actions were indeed acceptable. I just refuse to subscribe to the belief that their careers and futures should be ruined as a result.
 
MoBro said:
Did I not already indicate that I am a close friend to some of those involved? And I have repeatedly said that I'm not trying to EXCUSE what happened as complete and total innocence on their parts, and I have continually maintained that all involved DESERVE punishment for failing to ensure that their actions were indeed acceptable. I just refuse to subscribe to the belief that their careers and futures should be ruined as a result.

MOBRO - Don't worry about it, the telltale sign of when people begin to lose the ability to engage in rational debate and discourse, is when they start to resort to personal attacks.

The more posts that have been written by people who have tried to logically give some thought to this situation, and examine the limited amount of information available in an objective manner, the more the retorts have degenerated into unintelligible babble, personal attacks, and outlandish allegations. Like all of you Mormons at UNLV being well known for cheating.

I mean we all know that you don't want to take Mormons with you fishing, because you drink all the beer, but, you guys always offer to pay for it, you never try to cheat me out of it. (That's a joke! :laugh: )

DRJIC
 
unlvdmd said:
Seriously? :rolleyes: You are putting forth quite the effort to defend people who, cut and dry, used a licensed doctor's password without authorization. Simple as that. Who are you protecting/campaigning for? Yourself? Why the ENORMOUS effort to convince us here that what was done wasn't wrong? It's starting to get a little fishy. No more posts from me here... I've stated my peace. :cool:

good job, i agree with you nearly 100% ;) PM me.
 
unlvdmd said:
Plus, the thing that bothers me the most is the punishment recommended by the HONORS COUNCIL (the purpose of the damn thing) was overturned and deemed "too harsh" by ONE man. I just don't get that. Why even have the group if you are not going to respect their decision? They were the select few that had ALL of the facts and weighed the decision very heavily. And afterward, that is the punishment they came up with. That was be enough for me to say "Ok... I guess that is what should be done."


Is this obvious blow to the ego of the "honor council" (a volunteer, not elected position) the real reason this whole thing got leaked to the RJ and subsequently blown up into the mess that it is? If so, don't we have the leak to thank for all the bad (innacurate) press? Pretty pathetic, hope it was worth it to you
 
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If the thought never occured to anyone who got caught that the password they had was breaking some sort of rule than I question the intellect of such people.

You would have to be a complete space case to think that it was okay to use the password which is the sole property of one of your Dr. professors. If I came across my advisors password while in the clinic and it allowed me to go chart diving in unauthorized territory...hmmm, would I think it was wrong??? Everyone knew what they were getting themselves into.

I can see it now: Student one whispers to student two, "Hey, just use this and you can get in and forge some signatures" "What?!, Hmmm, okay, that will save me some time"

Brilliant. Now we have one of the perps defending himself here on the boards. The wicked take the truth hard...

As far as revoking the degree. I think that is harsh. There are plenty of dentists who do shady things in the real world (drug abusers, patient abusers, unethical procedures, shoddy work) Just like the cheaters at UNLV, but they don't get their license revoked. They do face harsh punishment. A fine of 75K and community service sounds good.

sweetgemini you have pm.
 
hey mobro, have you ever thought of just letting this thread die? i mean you're clearly not changing anybody's mind and if anything, you're just making the scandal bigger than it is. your pals are guilty, let it go... :rolleyes:
 
ObviousGuy said:
As far as revoking the degree. I think that is harsh. There are plenty of dentists who do shady things in the real world (drug abusers, patient abusers, unethical procedures, shoddy work) Just like the cheaters at UNLV, but they don't get their license revoked.

Many do get their licenses revoked, don't they?
 
ObviousGuy said:
If the thought never occured to anyone who got caught that the password they had was breaking some sort of rule than I question the intellect of such people.

You would have to be a complete space case to think that it was okay to use the password which is the sole property of one of your Dr. professors. If I came across my advisors password while in the clinic and it allowed me to go chart diving in unauthorized territory...hmmm, would I think it was wrong??? Everyone knew what they were getting themselves into.

I can see it now: Student one whispers to student two, "Hey, just use this and you can get in and forge some signatures" "What?!, Hmmm, okay, that will save me some time"

Brilliant. Now we have one of the perps defending himself here on the boards. The wicked take the truth hard...

As far as revoking the degree. I think that is harsh. There are plenty of dentists who do shady things in the real world (drug abusers, patient abusers, unethical procedures, shoddy work) Just like the cheaters at UNLV, but they don't get their license revoked. They do face harsh punishment. A fine of 75K and community service sounds good.

sweetgemini you have pm.


This is partly true...

Gavin said:
Many do get their licenses revoked, don't they?

My friends old partner was a drug addict (addicted to painkillers I think it was called) and after some investigations and punishments he is practicing again. I have heard the same with abuse and insurance fraud. Granted some get kicked out and I think it depends on the state but from what I do know it is hard to lose your license.
Coming from dental school it is a question of whether they should be granted their license as they have yet to recieve it and according to this thread many feel they are undeserving of said license.

Who knows??
 
Here is another article from today's paper. The information on the infractions that are consistently presented in these articles certainly conflict with MoBros information. With all of the press that this has been getting, it definitely tarnishes the image of all UNLVSOD grads. Good luck trying to get jobs!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jun-20-Tue-2006/news/8055184.html

Jun. 20, 2006
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Name those in scandal, grad urges

BY SEAN WHALEY
REVIEW-JOURNAL CAPITAL BUREAU
A graduate of the UNLV Dental School said Monday that the public should be told the names of the 10 students who forged faculty signatures on university documents including patient records.

And the attorney representing the state Board of Dental Examiners said any students involved in the incident could face licensing obstacles if they apply to practice in Nevada.

"The board is currently conducting an investigation," said John Hunt, general counsel to the Board of Dental Examiners. "This investigation could possibly affect the licensing of any of those students who may have been involved in the incidents being alleged at the dental school."

The application that must be filled out for licensing requires disclosure of any action taken by a university against an applicant under threat of perjury.

The application asks in a morals section: "Have you ever been dropped, suspended, expelled or disciplined by any school or college for any cause whatsoever?"

If the applicant answers yes and includes the information, then the request for a license can be debated on moral grounds, according to Nevada law and administrative code. Failure to include the information could result in a license being denied.

One of the graduates of the same dental school class is calling for the release of the names of the 10 people who gave her entire class a black eye.

"Their names should be released, so everyone knows the rest of us did our work properly," graduate Kelley Dunay of Henderson said.

The withholding of the names leaves all of the graduates tarnished because the public will not know who cheated and who did not, she said.

University of Nevada, Las Vegas officials have refused to release the names of the students, citing the federal Family Education Rights and Privacy Act, which protects their identities.

Dunay also takes issue with the punishment that the university gave the students, who were allowed to graduate with the rest of their class.

The students were ordered to perform 1,500 hours of community service in oral health over a period of five years. How that would be enforced was unclear.

The students also had 30-day suspensions placed on their transcripts, making the documents unavailable during that time for licensing or other programs.

Dunay said the students should have been required at a minimum to repeat the year's worth of work and "do it the way we had to do it, honestly."

Further information about the scandal might come to light Friday, when a review of the incident conducted by the chancellor's office is released.

Chancellor Jim Rogers asked for the investigation, which is being conducted by Deputy Chief Counsel Bart Patterson.

"In my mind, they are pretty serious issues, and I just want to see exactly what happened," Rogers said in an interview on Thursday. "I was not informed as it was happening, and that makes me very uncomfortable."

Several regents also asked for the review.

The UNLV dental school determined earlier this year that 10 members of its first graduating class of 71 students were caught using the computer password of a part-time faculty member to sign off on their own patient treatment plans, diagnoses and other work.

Typically, everything has to checked off by an instructor.

The acts were deemed to be violations of the honor code in the School of Dental Medicine.

Patterson said he expects to be able to complete his report by Friday.

"It's going fine," he said Monday. "The dental school has been very cooperative with me."

Patterson said he does not foresee the need to interview any of the 10 students involved in the incident because the full transcript of the hearing has been made available to him.

"I'm looking at very broad categories, whether there was any compromise in patient care, whether the student grades were impacted in some manner and whether they met all the required competencies regarding their skill levels," he said.

Other issues being examined are the experience of the administrators involved, what a similar action as a licensed dentist might provoke in the way of penalties from the state Board of Dental Examiners and any comparable situations at other schools, Patterson said.

A cheating investigation has been reported at the New Jersey Dental School, where allegations of students trading credits earned for clinical work are being reviewed, he said.

Dunay, who worked for years as a dental hygienist before attending dental school, said the infractions were serious.

"They don't really get it," she said of the students. "I know how important patient records are. This is way more serious then they think."

Dunay said she decided to speak out publicly because of comments in the dental community about the unidentified students.

"I shouldn't have to protect myself, the school should protect me," she said. "But I guess I have to protect myself. I haven't done anything wrong, and I want the community to know it."
 
MoBro said:
How 'bout some sources on that? Clearly you are just another one to make fact out of assumptions. YOU and those like you are the REAL problem in all this.

MoBro your right it's not the cheaters that are the problem in all this mess. It's clearly the people who think that cheating is wrong that are the problem. What were we thinking. The whole time we have been saying people should own up to there mistakes and it turns out that the cheaters aren't the problem, it's us. If those students didn't cheat this issue would have still hit the papers because it's really not about cheating is it. It's about people like us. Were the "REAL problem in all this".

MoBro you must be some ingnorant a$$hole.

To everyone else: sorry about the name calling but this guy is a real jerk.
 
MoBro said:
fraud
A noun
1 fraud, fraudulence, dupery, hoax, humbug, put-on
something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage

Still make sense to you?

The students involved entered the password of a part time prof with the INTENTION of representing themselves as this professor in the system, as far as I can tell none of them were in fact part time faculty at the time. They did this to gain the ADVANTAGE of extra time to dedicate to getting the heck out of Dodge and onto thier residencies or into thier practices. If you obtain someone's PIN number and deposite money in thier account it is still fraud. Absence of malice has no bearing on the commision of a crime, only the degree of punishment afterwards. I admit to the possibility to extenuating circumstances. The school fell into the oldest trap in the book. The unknown is always infinitly worse than the known. Obfuscating the detailes and participants for so long left the students and press to speculate, and we all have very fertile imaginations.

As to the mormon thing, it is simple. People would be just as delighted with this event if 9/10 the perpetrators were devout Baptists, orthodox jews, fervent muslims or even zealous Unitarians. The more public and pious your attitude, the more people will delight when your moral terpitue is exposed. Hugh Grant gets caught with a prostitute and who cares he's an actor and European to boot. The worst anyone says is he's an idoit for throwing over the extremly hot girl he had at the time. James Baker gets caught in an affair and the world grinds to a halt. Why? Because he staked out the moral high ground through his ministry. It is the oldest story of man PRIDE goeth before the fall. This is probably why pride is one of the seven deadly sins. It will always get you into trouble.

For every system that exists in the world, animal, plant or microbe individuals exist within that system that will try and cheat it. Becuase cheating is so distructive to a well ordered system regardless if you are a hyena trying to make off with a lion's kill or a spouse commiting adultry cheaters try to missapropriate resources that are not rightly thiers. If the most benign explination I heard (straight from the mouths of the ten I might add) is true, they were stealing time, time they did not want to spend jumping through the admin's hoops and unwinding the masses of red tape in order to graduate. This is still cheating! It's not as bad as some other forms of cheating but it is still cheating. And posing as some one else to alter a legal record, if only to correct a spelling error is still fraud. That the tricky thing about the law, there are technical violations and malicious violations, but in the end they are both violations AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT! Anyone who gets to the ripe old age of 25 has learned this.

As to punishment, the school has made a critical error. By softening up on the recomendations originally made by the honor's council (a group of thier peers BTW) they have presented the appearance of being soft on this issue, now people who do not know the characters of these ten people will have to decide. It is a nightmare senario for these ten. Their punishment will be determined by non-dental professionals on the facts of the case as reflected in the transcripts of the hearings and I think the baby will wind up being thrown out with the bathwater.
 
Ruprick said:
For us future UNLV'ers, I'd like to know what the general consensus is among current UNLV dental students regarding this "scandal".

Do you feel it has tainted the UNLV SDM?
Would you still recommend the school to your pre-dent peers?
Are you happy with your overall experience at the UNLV SDM?

I personally think this has blown way out of proportion and smells of political fluff. I hope it is handled quickly and appropriately so we can start discussing more important items.
Would still like some input on this, especially with the latest LVRJ article.
 
As an outsider and a "superb" dentist, I believe this incident tarnished the school a little temporarily, but the school's image will be fine. Give it two years or so, all this crap will blow by. The school, I'm sure, is teaching some great stuff to their students and the predental students will continue to apply there because it's in Las Vegas and a great option for students who wants to stay in the West.

ADA will continue to issue full accreditation without reporting to UNLV dental and all this bickering will stop eventually. What's amusing is that the same sh1t happened at UMDNJ, but you don't hear all the hype over there? What's wrong with people in LV? Give it a rest already people.

The 10 students will get what they deserve, whatever that will be.
 
klfb80 said:
MoBro your right it's not the cheaters that are the problem in all this mess. It's clearly the people who think that cheating is wrong that are the problem. What were we thinking. The whole time we have been saying people should own up to there mistakes and it turns out that the cheaters aren't the problem, it's us. If those students didn't cheat this issue would have still hit the papers because it's really not about cheating is it. It's about people like us. Were the "REAL problem in all this".

MoBro you must be some ingnorant a$$hole.

To everyone else: sorry about the name calling but this guy is a real jerk.


if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest man alive. If you'll please remove your head from your own ignorant a$$hole and learn to read before you condemn, mobro's point would be quite clear. all he has said is that you don't know the whole story, until you do, you are ignorant (so to speak) about the topic. people like you who speak freely to the press based on assumptions and heresay only complicate the problem. have you even read the thread, or did you just jump in at the end here in a feeble attempt to appear smart. shouldn't you be studying for the DAT?http://forums.studentdoctor.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3816350#
laughy
 
My oh my. I leave this thread for a couple days and look what's happened...exactly what I cautioned against. It's now turned into a pissing contest with no sensible arguments at all. We have friends who apparently know the "whole" story, outsiders who apparently know the "whole" story, legal experts, cooks, police, Peter Griffen, lawyers, expert witnesses blah blah blah. Clearly Yah-E reiterated what I said early the best. The chips are down, and they will land where they land. No sense in b*tching about it. And to the people/friends supporting the accused, good for you! Defending someone so vehemently because you care about them shows great character. But nevertheless, cheating did occur. The ignorance claim didn't work in grade school, and it certainly won't work in dental school. Or would you have me believe that a highschool Texan comes to a California highschool with a shotgun in the truck shouldn't get punished? Well maybe they didn't realized it's illegal to do that in California, but they will certainly be punished for it, ignorance or not. Call it what you want, but everybody cries innocence when they get caught doing something wrong, save a few. Unless the old addage is true, that it's only cheating...if you get caught. These people do deserve some sort of punishment, and it's up to the committee to decide what it is.

Now please Mods, close down this thread. As entertaining as it is, it's really just wasting bandwidth.
 
ineeddds said:
As entertaining as it is, it's really just wasting bandwidth.

Probably the most insightful statement of anyone yet. :laugh: Five pages of the same garbage over and over again. Time for this one to go the way of the dodo.

Woops, I just bumped it to the top again. :eek:
 
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