Unmatched 2013, Time to Take Action

[footankledpm]

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None of us deserve this.... We all went through 4 years of hardship, 200k+ in student loans, sleepless nights, stress, passing boards, spending money on externships and crib!
Take a look at Dr. Arnold's article: http://podiatrym.com/search3.cfm?id=62240
I have contacted a lawyer and will meet with him tomorrow. We all should communicate through this... Everyone feel free to email me if you wish to get what you deserve. We all deserve a residency spot and nobody should go under this much stress after all these achievements and right before graduation: [email protected]

 

[footankledpm]

None of us deserve this.... We all went through 4 years of hardship, 200k+ in student loans, sleepless nights, stress, passing boards, spending money on externships and crib!
Take a look at Dr. Arnold's article: http://podiatrym.com/search3.cfm?id=62240
I have contacted a lawyer and will meet with him tomorrow. We all should communicate through this... Everyone feel free to email me if you wish to get what you deserve. We all deserve a residency spot and nobody should go under this much stress after all these achievements and right before graduation: [email protected]

03/27/2013 Jeanne M. Arnold, DPM

104 Applicants Not Matched for Residency Positions

I have been following the discussion concerning
the 104 students who did not match a residency
this year with interest. I don't usually get
involved in the politics of podiatry, but this is
the biggest 'foul' I think I've seen in almost 30
years of practice as a podiatrist and am finding
it hard to keep quiet. I understand there are not
enough residency programs, I understand that
sometimes someone does not qualify for a residency
and I know not every graduate want to be a
surgeon. But to let 104 new graduates without a
pathway to practice and pay back $100,000+ in
student loans is not just a travesty, it should be
criminal. Don't tell me that no one saw this
coming. And don't tell me it's every podiatrists'
fault because we don't all have a residency
program of our own. Maybe our leaders shouldn't
spend so much time with their heads in the
proverbial sand.


Even more interesting are the solutions everyone
is coming up with. Preceptorships are great, but
they are not a residency and in most states will
not get you a license to practice independently.
Giving them a 'chiropody' degree is even more
ludicrous. What a slap in the face! Complete 4
years of podiatric medical school and all you get
is a chiropody degree. Anyway, in which state can
you get a license to practice chiropody? I don't
know of any and it takes time for all the state
licensing boards to get the requirements together
to issue a completely new type of license, unless
chiropody is included under the nail
tech/cosmetologist classification. Yet another
slap in the face.


Wait until next year and re-apply? Are 208
residencies suddenly going to show up? I think the
law of diminishing returns takes effect here.


The fact is, this storm has been brewing for years
and it is unconscionable that it was allowed to
happen. The time for pointing fingers has passed--
it's time for heads to roll. The leadership of
this profession needs to step up and accept
responsibility for the mess that's been created
for our future practitioners.


My advice? To the 104 people who did not match a
residency and who will most likely never be able
to practice as podiatrists let alone pay back the
massive student loan debt incurred while pursuing
a podiatry degree, find a good attorney. It won't
get you back the 4 years you spent in podiatry
school, but perhaps it will eliminate the debt so
you can start over in another career path.


Jeanne M. Arnold, DPM. Coeur d'Alene, ID,
[email protected]

 

[rainynights]

I wish you well and I hope this serves as a wake-up call to the higher-ups in the field.

 

[rickchick]

hmm I don't think anyone will be able to get back the 4 years that were lost. However you can try to get back your money. I'm curious tho, I know some PA's and NP's and PCP's can do minor work with the foot and ankle like ingrown toenail removal and there are MD/DO's that specialize in the foot and ankle and can do surgery, so y not just go to medical school and become an orthopedic surgeon? I'm just curious. I'm assuming there are some things only a podiatrist is trained to perform. Regardless be happy of your accomplishments, u got through a tough 4 years and earned your degree.

 

[Homo sapien]

I think, Rick, is because
1) They have already gone to podiatry school.
2) Why the hell would you get more hundreds of thousands in debt?!

 

[rickchick]

I think, Rick, is because
1) They have already gone to podiatry school.
2) Why the hell would you get more hundreds of thousands in debt?!

No, im saying why didn't ppl just go to real med school from the beginning. PA and nursing is such a more flexible degree, i think the pplm with a podiatry degree is that it's not flexible and not many ppl have heard of it

 

[flyhi]

No, im saying why didn't ppl just go to real med school from the beginning. PA and nursing is such a more flexible degree, i think the pplm with podiatry degree is that it's not flexible and not many ppl have heard of dpm

Go away.

 

[rickchick]

Go away.

ok.

 

[buBBa15]

No, im saying why didn't ppl just go to real med school from the beginning. PA and nursing is such a more flexible degree, i think the pplm with a podiatry degree is that it's not flexible and not many ppl have heard of it

"Real med school". Wow, just wow.

 

[flyhi]

:troll:

 

[rickchick]

I'm not a troll. I do wish footankledpm well in his future endeavors, I'd hate to be in his situation. I'm sure he's not alone.

 

[zmansman17]

I'm not a troll. I do wish footankledpm well in his future endeavors, I'd hate to be in his situation. I'm sure he's not alone.

This is probably the same IP that keeps re-creating troll accounts. Everything tends to be poorly stated, incendiary, and not very helpful.

 

[rickchick]

i dont know about u, but im not inflaming anything. You have a student thats upset, it seems to be your own or former students are the ones creating a debate, im just a mere observer, and you need to address his or her concerns. Im telling footankle dpm goodluck in your future endeavors, i only offer support, nothing else. Also idk what ur talking about, this is my first time using sdn. I was interested in podiatry until i started seeing these threads, but im glad i did. Also have u ever heard of freedom of speech? we live in the usa right? If you want helpful solutions there really aren't any i can give. I would say cut enrollment by 20% but thats impossible since thats a lot of lost revenue which could lead to schools having to shutdown. To run a school, costs are very high and u need a high enrollment of students to cover the costs, I would assume.

 

[Sig Savant]

Time to take action. Go create as many positive relationships with directors as you can. Go get published. Every time a new program starts accepting residents, you should be standing in that director's office. Go read McGlamry's, and every JBJS/JFAS/JAPMA article from the last two years. Join Toastmasters and get more comfortable interacting as a normal person in society. You were unsuccessful for a reason, isolate that reason and fix it for either next year or the positions that will be taking new residents in the next few months. Call every student/resident you know and get the inside information on new programs in the pipeline. This isn't the time to be secretive about not having a spot.

 

[rickchick]

Time to take action. Go create as many positive relationships with directors as you can. Go get published. Every time a new program starts accepting residents, you should be standing in that director's office. Go read McGlamry's, and every JBJS/JFAS/JAPMA article from the last two years. Join Toastmasters and get more comfortable interacting as a normal person in society. You were unsuccessful for a reason, isolate that reason and fix it for either next year or the positions that will be taking new residents in the next few months. Call every student/resident you know and get the inside information on new programs in the pipeline. This isn't the time to be secretive about not having a spot.

wise words sig savant. you have to do what you can. Never give up footankle dpm, life has its challenges but you must overcome them.

 

[dtrack22]

Sig nailed it you guys

 

[pipetman]

Time to take action. Go create as many positive relationships with directors as you can. Go get published. Every time a new program starts accepting residents, you should be standing in that director's office. Go read McGlamry's, and every JBJS/JFAS/JAPMA article from the last two years. Join Toastmasters and get more comfortable interacting as a normal person in society. You were unsuccessful for a reason, isolate that reason and fix it for either next year or the positions that will be taking new residents in the next few months. Call every student/resident you know and get the inside information on new programs in the pipeline. This isn't the time to be secretive about not having a spot.

Sounds nice, but if there aren't enough seats... and unfortunately, residents or anyone for that matter are more than reluctant to give "inside info" . What they can honestly tell you is if their program accepts re applicants, and a majority do not.

Harassing directors may not be the move either...there are other posts of people who had tried that, and were looked badly upon.

there should probably be a separate forum for these issues instead of lumping this with the podiatry student forum. And maybe residents can chime in ...mods?

 

[Fetting]

Sig savant is spot on. You have to earn the spot you want. People need to realize that passing boards and passing classes won't guarantee you anything. If there's a student who earned a 3.5+, passed boards, did research, busted ass to make personal relationships over 3 or 4 years, etc they are going to get a spot. You can't show up and simply pass and attend externships and asse you'll get a spot because you deserve it. Pretty rough times right now though.

 

[flyhi]

Sig savant is spot on. You have to earn the spot you want. People need to realize that passing boards and passing classes won't guarantee you anything. If there's a student who earned a 3.5+, passed boards, did research, busted ass to make personal relationships over 3 or 4 years, etc they are going to get a spot. You can't show up and simply pass and attend externships and asse you'll get a spot because you deserve it. Pretty rough times right now though.

Yes, that is what may be required now, but it is not acceptable for a profession (especially one that keeps screaming for parity). If you pass classes and boards there SHOULD be a residency spot for you. The competition should be for the best residencies, not just for A residency.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

You have to earn the spot you want. People need to realize that passing boards and passing classes won't guarantee you anything. If there's a student who earned a 3.5+, passed boards, did research, busted ass to make personal relationships over 3 or 4 years, etc they are going to get a spot. You can't show up and simply pass and attend externships and asse you'll get a spot because you deserve it.

I've gotten this same input from every student I know who matched this year. Is it a guarantee that if you do everything right you will get a spot? No.

But in contrast to the number of residency positions available, these are things within our control as students.

If you don't do any of these things you are putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to those students who are.

It doesn't fix the current residency shortfall problem, but it's good advice for those rising through podiatry school right to keep in mind over the next few years.

 

[hotdawg]

Yes, that is what may be required now, but it is not acceptable for a profession (especially one that keeps screaming for parity). If you pass classes and boards there SHOULD be a residency spot for you. The competition should be for the best residencies, not just for A residency.

👍

 

[ManUnderFire]

Yes, that is what may be required now, but it is not acceptable for a profession (especially one that keeps screaming for parity). If you pass classes and boards there SHOULD be a residency spot for you. The competition should be for the best residencies, not just for A residency.

Finally, some reason. It's frustrating to see how some ppl on SDN can't even support and empathize with their own colleagues. You would think that being in healthcare demands a reasonable level of humanity, for crying out loud. It's sad, really. Who in their right mind would take on 250K debt knowing there was even a remote chance that they would NOT land paid training (residency) of some sort? Granted, bottom-feeders will not be gracing ortho group offices, but I highly doubt these students honestly think they have a shot at that anyway-they are just looking for a decent way to make a decent living through a decent residency. Not everyone wants DMC or West Penn. But not even having enough spots to begin with? There is no better way to summarize that than pathetic.

Listen, life doesn't have to be dog eat dog...we just make it that way by being selfish/greedy. Schools accept students knowing they have no shot in hell of landing a residency spot, and worse, 'graduate' these students without passing boards?! I'm sorry but podiatry is a sham if you have to kiss butt in order to 'secure' a residency. And yes, trying to be buddy buddy with residency directors in order to get a spot is kissing butt no matter how you phrase it. I'm sad to see the profession as a whole fail. Taking action is right...heads gotta roll.

 

[msion]

Finally, some reason. It's frustrating to see how some ppl on SDN can't even support and empathize with their own colleagues. You would think that being in healthcare demands a reasonable level of humanity, for crying out loud. It's sad, really. Who in their right mind would take on 250K debt knowing there was even a remote chance that they would NOT land paid training (residency) of some sort? Granted, bottom-feeders will not be gracing ortho group offices, but I highly doubt these students honestly think they have a shot at that anyway-they are just looking for a decent way to make a decent living through a decent residency. Not everyone wants DMC or West Penn. But not even having enough spots to begin with? There is no better way to summarize that than pathetic.

Listen, life doesn't have to be dog eat dog...we just make it that way by being selfish/greedy. Schools accept students knowing they have no shot in hell of landing a residency spot, and worse, 'graduate' these students without passing boards?! I'm sorry but podiatry is a sham if you have to kiss butt in order to 'secure' a residency. And yes, trying to be buddy buddy with residency directors in order to get a spot is kissing butt no matter how you phrase it. I'm sad to see the profession as a whole fail. Taking action is right...heads gotta roll.

I understand your feelings, but being pessimistic isn't going to help. just seems that nothing is a gurantee these days, u got vets without jobs (see the NYT article), optometrists and pharmacy facing oversupply and saturated markets, the residency crunch that's looming the MD/DOs, and of course our own shortage problem. As for now the safest bet might be MD, but even they are complaining about salary cuts and outsourcing of radiologists. The truth is, we aren't alone in this crisis and healthcare isn't what people thought a decade or two ago. That's the new reality, thanks to a tanking economy and new socialism in America.

 

[robopod97]

The title of this thread is accurate. The time for action is now. There is no shortage of residency positions. There are 560 positions approved by CPME and another 100 or so additional positions CPME just sent letters to programs that have the numbers to add additional residents. Can all of these positions be implemented, no, but many can. There is a shortage but it happens to be in the areas of courage, compassion, empathy and leadership. The question is, what does it take to have the people who have the ability to solve this problem, do it? Do we appeal to their spirit of professional pride, do we provide financial incentives and do we encourage DPMs to take their cases to residency programs? There is a short term solution, a one-time three year fix to manage the current dilemma while longer term strategies begin to payoff. I would encourage all to voice their ideas to solve this issue in a productive not destructive manner.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

what does it take to have the people who have the ability to solve this problem, do it?

Great question.

 

[pod101]

What does it take to create a residency slot?

 

[buBBa15]

What does it take to create a residency slot?

Money.

 

[flyhi]

I would encourage all to voice their ideas to solve this issue in a productive not destructive manner.

👍 This.

Voices need to be heard. Student bodies need to express their feelings on the matter. It's unacceptable and there needs to be drastic measures to get those 104 working and with an option for licensure. All students should be fighting for this..because otherwise we are saying it's ok. And, it's NOT ok.

 

[msion]

What does it take to create a residency slot?

According to Podiatry eTalk, funding for new spots doesn't seem to be an issue at all. The main problem is to find a qualified residency director. Few pods are willing to do this due to paperwork and other hassales dealing with both the hospital and CPME adminstration. Some pods have this "anti-newbies" sentiment and fear that the newly trained 3-year surgical pods will take their jobs. However, they don't seem to be in the majority.

Anyway, they should have this problem solved in the near future, more attendings are expressing interest in creating new programs. They understand that a field with this kind of crisis is no good for them either. They need people to buy their practices once they retire. 😎

 

[flyhi]

I think they should immediately implement 1 and 2 year residencies again. Everything is already in place, as that is how it was for years. Not everyone wants to be a superstar reconstructive surgeon and the 3 year residency requirement has obviously placed a strain on the system. Most podiatrists today did not have a 3 yr residency and are serving a much-needed role in the profession. You can take 3 times as many residents in a 1yr program compared to one 3 yr program. Would solve the shortage almost instantaneously and give students options for their training Thoughts?

 

[ldsrmdude]

I think they should immediately implement 1 and 2 year residencies again. Everything is already in place, as that is how it was for years. Not everyone wants to be a superstar reconstructive surgeon and the 3 year residency requirement has obviously placed a strain on the system. Most podiatrists today did not have a 3 yr residency and are serving a much-needed role in the profession. You can take 3 times as many residents in a 1yr program compared to one 3 yr program. Would solve the shortage almost instantaneously and give students options for their training Thoughts?

Actually, I don't think that it would solve as much as people think it would to bring back 1 and 2-year residencies, at least short-term. You would still have the problem of finding directors for all of the new programs you would have to create. I doubt many (any?) current 3-year programs would want to go back to being 1 or 2-year programs. And yes, a residency could take 3 times as many residents if they were 1-year compared to 3, but that is only if you look at it over at least a 3 year period. Now, if you're talking long-term solution, I don't even know if we'll be talking about the "crisis" in 1 or 2 years. If we end up not having a shortage within the next few years (which I think is what is going to happen), it may be a moot point on the side of it. Should podiatry require a 3-year surgical residency? I think so personally. Otherwise we set up a caste system within podiatry that only takes us further away from parity and wider recognition and acceptance, IMHO.

 

[flyhi]

I think for the short-term, funding may have been an issue for some 3 year programs, so they pulled the plug. Admittedly, I know next to nothing about the process or how it all really works, but I believe if a program is funded, it is a commitment for 3 years... just seems like there might be programs sitting out there that could commit to 1 or 2 yr deals, but not 3. And, I'm speaking of programs that already have the infrastructure and were functioning 1 and 2 yr programs at one time but did not want to play (or could not) in the 3 yr arena.

If the profession were really concerned about parity, we would not be in this situation, imo. We just took 10 steps back. Vision 2015 is now Vision 2020, if we are lucky. What is the use in requiring these 3 year residencies if you can't support them? Very frustrating that those that can, and should, make things happen have let this occur. It's an embarrassment.

 

[ldsrmdude]

You are probably right, I am sure there are some programs that couldn't make the jump to 3 years and closed. Would they be able to open now were things to change and 1 and/or 2 year programs come back? Who knows. Would it happen this year? No. Next year? Maybe some would. I think that having 1 or 2 year programs would have worked had we not already made the switch to 3 year programs. To go back now would be the real "10 steps back."

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

You are probably right, I am sure there are some programs that couldn't make the jump to 3 years and closed. Would they be able to open now were things to change and 1 and/or 2 year programs come back? Who knows. Would it happen this year? No. Next year? Maybe some would. I think that having 1 or 2 year programs would have worked had we not already made the switch to 3 year programs. To go back now would be the real "10 steps back."

I understand from a professional standpoint and equality, everyone needs the same three year residency, but it is a huge bummer for people who don't want to do a lot of surgery. And perhaps an even greater bummer for the people who get a mediocre residency and think they will land a job doing 100% surgery when the numbers are just not there for everyone to be surgeons. Oh well, it makes the profession look better and that might be more important I guess

Sent from my Nexus 4 using SDN Mobile

 

[josebiwasabi]

I understand from a professional standpoint and equality, everyone needs the same three year residency, but it is a huge bummer for people who don't want to do a lot of surgery. And perhaps an even greater bummer for the people who get a mediocre residency and think they will land a job doing 100% surgery when the numbers are just not there for everyone to be surgeons. Oh well, it makes the profession look better and that might be more important I guess

Sent from my Nexus 4 using SDN Mobile

when you do some more research about residency programs you'll see that the minimum surgical numbers required for accreditation actually aren't that much when you consider those are the numbers for all 3 years of residency.

there are programs that actually don't have a emphasis on surgery apart from getting their minimum numbers. and also keep in mind that the QUALITY (how much of the surgery the resident actually performed) of those cases will vary greatly.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I understand from a professional standpoint and equality, everyone needs the same three year residency, but it is a huge bummer for people who don't want to do a lot of surgery. And perhaps an even greater bummer for the people who get a mediocre residency and think they will land a job doing 100% surgery when the numbers are just not there for everyone to be surgeons. Oh well, it makes the profession look better and that might be more important I guess

Sent from my Nexus 4 using SDN Mobile

Yeah, I definitely feel for those who didn't get a spot this year. As far as those people who don't want to do a lot of surgery, that's just the way the profession is headed in general. That doesn't mean that every graduate will do, or even want to do, a lot of surgery. For those that don't want to do much surgery, consider whether you want to spend 3 years doing a surgical residency or just do the residency and do the surgeries and then graduate and go practice and don't do surgery. Like josebiwasabi said, there are residencies that spend more time in clinic, wound care, etc. Look for one of those.