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Why can’t MSK keep people? Is the pay terrible and too much work?
Don’t know much abt Simon, but didn’t he come from wash u?
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NYC highly desirable for many.
I have heard anecdotally pay is decent for an academic shop, but you live in NYC area.
Even if they pay AAMC 50th or 75th percentile for junior faculty...your $$ goes a lot further in most other areas of the US besides maybe california
I am sure it is busy. Didn't spratt brag on twitter how he'd see 12 H&N consults in a day or something?
I’ve seen multiple MSKCC job posting all 300-550k but all of them were satellite, not in NYC. I’m assuming it’s gonna be higher in NYC since COL is much higher?
Nope. I wouldn't assume that at all. Supposedly Harvard has terrible pay in Boston proper
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deleted1180461
lol, how much more do you have to make in manhattan to have same QOL as Houston? Gotta be at least 7 figures.
Damn that’s aweful. I haven’t seen any job posts in boston that states salary but I did decline an interview from a program there after seeing the rent prices!
The lifestyle in Manhattan is much different than in Houston. That being said, I don’t think I would live there for anything less than 500k. I’m a single guy though.
Or some places are just always hiring because they have a lot of funds and "promotion" means more time out of clinic. I should clarify I have no idea how many have joined or left MSKCC specifically.
Tales from academics...
Former Chairperson - hires graduating Resident 1 to start mid-summer 2024
New Chairperson starts early summer 2024 and is sibling to Resident 1
New Chairperson running search for faculty positions to start winter 2024 thru summer 2025. Guess who is completing residency in 2025? Resident 2 - child of Former Chairperson.
Former Chairperson - hires graduating Resident 1 to start mid-summer 2024
New Chairperson starts early summer 2024 and is sibling to Resident 1
New Chairperson running search for faculty positions to start winter 2024 thru summer 2025. Guess who is completing residency in 2025? Resident 2 - child of Former Chairperson.
can’t believe that a decent chair would encourage his kid to go into this field.
Mmm...I think you are wrong here. A chair has enormous influence and can pretty much assure that their kid gets a solid academic opportunity. I'm certain this place qualifies as a solid academic opportunity.
A low volume academic opportunity in radonc may still be among the best in medicine in terms of QOL and pay/hour ratio. If it's a place that does real research...you are still giving your kid a golden egg.
Now, if you are worried about your kid doing meaningful work or developing a complex because they are committing themselves to a progressively marginalized part of oncology...that's a different thing.
Even back in my day, I was surprised at how common family connections were. I did not appreciate this until job search time.
If your kid is dumb, spoiled, or both…well, that’s what nepotism is for.
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deleted1180461
Chairperson lol
A child of a Rad Onc is going to have the inside track to the best jobs in the entire country.
I'm just blown away when people bring their children/siblings to the SAME institution and think it's going to look like literally anything besides a giant nepotism cluster****. At least the Chino's are at different centers...
Everyone STILL remembers the NYP Methodist chair taking his kid for their SOLE resident position, and not in a good way.
Same program also had one of the attendings daughters at the time as a graduating resident
Anyone interested in Fort Collins, WY?
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deleted1180461
Solid 1 doc practice. Sleepy stuck-at-base salary 2 doc practice. They should just let a hungry rad onc have it. 30 minutes if you drive 120 mph, sure.
Gotta be Cheyenne, WY which is 45ish minutes from Fort Collins, CO
Haha. The state capital is known for being 30 mins north of Ft. Collins?
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deleted1180461
It's always hilarious when remote places try to recruit by saying "we are X miles from desirable place Y, Z miles from international airport, etc." Then say at interview "We are holding out for the right candidate who wants to live here and become a part of the community." (while using locums for years) If they would let someone live in Fort Collins and drive in 3 days a week, they would get an excellent rad onc who would never leave. A 2 doc practice with 30 pts on treat that requires both on site 5 days a week is a non-starter.
But otherwise yes, Cheyenne WY >>> Any town on I-70 between Kansas City and Denver (Looking at you, Salina).
Radonc, Medonc and Rads… can you tell which one is the rad onc?🤔
But jokes aside, how is rad onc always the highest paid non-surgical specialty on the doximity report? Are there radoncs out there who make $2-3M that offset these kind of pay rate differences?
But jokes aside, how is rad onc always the highest paid non-surgical specialty on the doximity report? Are there radoncs out there who make $2-3M that offset these kind of pay rate differences?
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deleted1180461
One better...
Would you take this job?
Got presented a fairly unique opportunity and figured I'd get opinions. Offer: -80 bed hospital, 400 deliveries, 2 ORs, 2 Procedure rooms, no high risk ob and low call back volume. 7 days on 7 days off, 26 weeks/year, 7-5pm daily, supervising 2-3 CRNA, call Mon-Sun, CRNA backup, $35,000/wk...
forums.studentdoctor.net
And taking this job is controversial to them lol.
But.... it's 30 minutes to Fort Collins!
Making close to 7-figure working half the year is insane!One better...
Would you take this job?
Got presented a fairly unique opportunity and figured I'd get opinions. Offer: -80 bed hospital, 400 deliveries, 2 ORs, 2 Procedure rooms, no high risk ob and low call back volume. 7 days on 7 days off, 26 weeks/year, 7-5pm daily, supervising 2-3 CRNA, call Mon-Sun, CRNA backup, $35,000/wk...
And taking this job is controversial to them lol.
Only have MSPaint, apologies
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deleted1180461
Excellent. Thank you for this, we need more of these kind of anonymous reports here. I have a similar story from another place but am under an NDA (because it was so bad that it ended up in that) so unfortunately cannot share. I think this is common especially in the sparsely populated areas in the western half of the country where hospitals have no competitors.
Without doxxing myself, I also interviewed at Cheyenne at some point in the past 6 years and at the time there was a new grad there whose wife was the physicist and they had him staffing the place alone after the other one left without any increase in pay. I got similar vibes about admin having no regard for physician autonomy (having previously had a psychopathic department manager from the local community college who got a kick out of bossing an MD around). It was a lot of WTF. If they don't have physics there anymore, I suppose the draw of nearby Fort Collins (which is your run of the mill college town, it's ok) wasn't enough lol. If not keeping a rad onc happy who literally brought a physicist with him to the most rural state in the country doesn't scream complete administrative incompetence, I don't know what does.
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deleted1180461
High floor, low ceiling. Any rads or anesthesia or even med onc can make well above 1M if they are willing to hustle. Making >1M as a rad onc is virtually unheard of outside of a handful of legacy docs who own their own linac and have captured a market or are partnered with med onc.
The hourly rates for rad onc DO seem to be coming up but it's been a slow grind. I think the boomer permalocums who will work for anything is dying off (literally). I saw a $375/hour rad onc locums gig the other day (through an agency too, believe it or not).
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My guess is that radonc locums is generally depressed compared to others because it's easy to find someone willing to babysit a linac for a week, which presumably many of these locums assignments are. Admin is more willing to push follow-ups/consults out a week to when the real doctor gets back, rather than pay more for a doc who would see patients/consults/etc. Easier to do that in radonc than anesthesia.
edit: thank you for posting that report. We need more people to do things like that.
edit: thank you for posting that report. We need more people to do things like that.
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deleted1180461
The problem is that the rad onc locums market doesn't discriminate very well between babysitting vacation coverage and these rural places with boneheaded admins that can't retain a full-time employee and want to bring people in for a few months at time to literally see, treat, and manage all the patients. $2000/day may be reasonable for the former but is nowhere near for the latter. Unfortunately they got away with it for a long time.
I got a dm that the Wyoming hospital routinely fires radoncs
Sounds like they are doing the docs a favor
why is it that the hospital doesn’t fire the incompetent admin decimating the dept? Is everyone just a bunch of incompetent dunces?
How does one "routinely" fire a rad onc?
Like you're doing an absolute **** job if you've fired more than 1 rad onc in the last decade.
I kind of want to interview just out of morbid curiosity.
Like you're doing an absolute **** job if you've fired more than 1 rad onc in the last decade.
I kind of want to interview just out of morbid curiosity.
Like how one can routinely spill more water on the ground
There’s lots more water than where that came from
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deleted1180461
If that's true that's gotta be an interesting story. The person whose job I interviewed for was fired IIRC ("non-renewed" as they call it, just wasn't a good fit or something). I just assumed the other guy voluntarily left because it was a s&(show. Actually exercising the termination clause in the contract is next level. Almost always if admin wants a doctor gone, they will just make their lives miserable until they quit voluntarily.
I really hope things get better or at least no rad onc, especially the new grads, get desperate enough to put up with the predatory lowball offers.
Why do they keep firing doctors? What is the disagreement about? What do they want to control that is worth this?
Is there no CEO, nobody above this admin who cares?
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deleted1180461
Am I the only one not seeing some of these posts? I want the dirt! (Mainly out of also morbid curiosity of the bullet I dodged)
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deleted1180461
Kearney Nebraska is offering $200 per hour LOL. I’m guessing they’re done in 6 hours
So you can travel to the middle of nowhere and make $1200 in a day as a rad onc or $10,000 as an anesthesiologist. Joke.
"Control. The non clinical admin want total control. Each physician has asked for the same things: patient safety, QI projects, building out cancer center (nurse navigator, tumor board, subspecialists)
Items rejected include cones for SRS, contrast for sim, DIBH, HN scopes since there's no ENT in town anymore, less call (rad onc is the safety blanket since no urgent neurosurgery or ortho spine), ACR accreditation, additional training for therapists and dosi, brachy afterloader, new CT sim.
If it has an upfront cost it needs an ROI. No ROI, then not happening."
I mean, I hate hospitals and hospitals ceos as much as anyone, but if all the docs are making demands like this of some community hospital in the middle of nowhere I'm not entirely surprised they were let go.
Items rejected include cones for SRS, contrast for sim, DIBH, HN scopes since there's no ENT in town anymore, less call (rad onc is the safety blanket since no urgent neurosurgery or ortho spine), ACR accreditation, additional training for therapists and dosi, brachy afterloader, new CT sim.
If it has an upfront cost it needs an ROI. No ROI, then not happening."
I mean, I hate hospitals and hospitals ceos as much as anyone, but if all the docs are making demands like this of some community hospital in the middle of nowhere I'm not entirely surprised they were let go.
Not sure those are entirely unreasonable requests. But maybe docs should know their location before asking for stuff like that 🤷🏾
A hospital in this location needs to paying 600k+ to attract decent candidates, but it sounds like they want 2 docs, so the rvus just won’t be there. In this speciality, often rural places offer less rvus/consults while in just about every other field they offer more. Personally, I want to be busy in the middle of nowhere, not seeing 4 consults a week.
