Unsuccessful Dentists

[Mazz]

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How many dentists do you think are completely unsuccessful? They graduate and cant find a good job that pays well enough to cover their debt or maybe they cant find a job at all.

 

[Frederico Albin]

Dentist have several opened doors once they graduate. They have so many opportunities, which is a big reason why people choose this profession. You can do research, become a assistant teacher at a dental school, join the armed forces, open your own office and so on...
In my opinion, its almost impossible to be unsuccessful after you graduate from dental school, but theres always a chance...

Now for the money question, you should search the forum about this topic, Ive seen a few threads with the same question.

GL

 

[Stillmaticbeat]

it depends on what your definition of success is

 

[Chesnok]

Don't worry. Don't have such attitude, you'll do fine. Be optimistic. Or you may even ask dentists that question.
GL.

 

[Zubnaya Feya]

How many dentists do you think are completely unsuccessful? They graduate and cant find a good job that pays well enough to cover their debt or maybe they cant find a job at all.

Very very small percentage, I think.

 

[tinman831]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe in one of my practice management lectures, they said that less than 1% of dentists do declare bankrupcy (most likely dentists who try to venture into private practice and do so blindly without adequate research).

 

[Black Teeth]

How many dentists do you think are completely unsuccessful? They graduate and cant find a good job that pays well enough to cover their debt or maybe they cant find a job at all.

I'm not trying to speak for anyone else's experience. But from my experience, the dental graduates who can't find a job aren't able to do so because they place too many restrictions on their job criteria. Most dental graduates I know aren't willing to move to other areas to look for associate positions. Instead, they insist on trying to limit their job search to southern California, especially in LA, where dentistry seems saturated. Some of my dental school classmates got smart and were willing to move to other areas such as northern California or Texas where dental associate position openings are plenty. You can try dentalassociatecareers.com and see for yourself how many career opportunities there are for dentists.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Mazz,

Most dentists will start off with decent salary if they choose a proper location to begin work. Like the previous response, the location is really key. California really is saturated with dentists. Just to give you an example, my friend currency works 4 days a week at a partice and earns exactly $400 per day ($76800 per year /w benefits). He works another day at his father's group practice which probably pays him a lot higher, I don't know those specifics. I didn't ask him specifically but he pays around $2500 a month to his debt. He lives at home with his parents and drives an old honda civic. I asked him when he wants to open his practice and his response was "never, i'm going to take over my dads, I have no money and no balls to take out another loan."

 

[Contach]

Mazz,

Most dentists will start off with decent salary if they choose a proper location to begin work. Like the previous response, the location is really key. California really is saturated with dentists. Just to give you an example, my friend currency works 4 days a week at a partice and earns exactly $400 per day ($76800 per year /w benefits). He works another day at his father's group practice which probably pays him a lot higher, I don't know those specifics. I didn't ask him specifically but he pays around $2500 a month to his debt. He lives at home with his parents and drives an old honda civic. I asked him when he wants to open his practice and his response was "never, i'm going to take over my dads, I have no money and no balls to take out another loan."

Is your friend working in California? and then is this an example of someone who picked a poor location to work? So you are saying this amount of pay is low?

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Is your friend working in California? and then is this an example of someone who picked a poor location to work? So you are saying this amount of pay is low?

Yes he works in California. I think his deal is actually quite good esp. in this economy. I'm sure other fresh grads would take $250-300/day since its better than anything. I think it's realistic to assume to that working in a saturated area, while good for personal reasons is not the best financially. If you are working a rural area in a small town, you can potentially earn $600-1000/day or % of production. California probably isn't ideal for someone with big loans since it cali has the highest state income tax bracket, a high cost of living, saturation, declining economy - good job Arnold.

 

[youngmc27]

The number that fail are small. Dentistry sets you up for success. It makes you work hard to get in , to survive and graduate and once out if you continue working hard you will be successful if you choose the situation to make you a success.

 

[Mazz]

I hear ya about Cali. I live in LA and there is a dentist on every freakin corner. I cant for the life of me figure out how they stay afloat.

Its good to hear that its pretty hard to be unsuccessful. Its the debt that scares me. 150k-300k in the hole right off the bat is pretty scary stuff.

 

[gryffindor]

Yes he works in California. I think his deal is actually quite good esp. in this economy. I'm sure other fresh grads would take $250-300/day since its better than anything. I think it's realistic to assume to that working in a saturated area, while good for personal reasons is not the best financially. If you are working a rural area in a small town, you can potentially earn $600-1000/day or % of production. California probably isn't ideal for someone with big loans since it cali has the highest state income tax bracket, a high cost of living, saturation, declining economy - good job Arnold.

I hope you're not serious. Hygienists can make $250 - 300/day in California, and their training involves a lot fewer years and debt than a dentist. This is a complete misuse of your training as a DDS if you choose to work at such a low wage.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I hope you're not serious. Hygienists can make $250 - 300/day in California, and their training involves a lot fewer years and debt than a dentist. This is a complete misuse of your training as a DDS if you choose to work at such a low wage.

What would you offer an associate?

 

[iJackTeeth]

from his previous posts, i would take whatever hamburgersam says with a grain of salt

 

[xhamburgersamx]

from his previous posts, i would take whatever hamburgersam says with a grain of salt

take it with some pepper too, maybe a little hot sauce as well.

good luck at western 👍

 

[iJackTeeth]

.....

 

[cybermech]

How many dentists do you think are completely unsuccessful? They graduate and cant find a good job that pays well enough to cover their debt or maybe they cant find a job at all.

I know an orthodontist in Hawaii who declared bankruptcy after trying to open two private clinics far too soon. Dentists will always live well as long as they don't make dumb life decisions and choose a good area. I second all of the posts above.

 

[Black Teeth]

from his previous posts, i would take whatever hamburgersam says with a grain of salt

Actually, xhamburgersamx is right about many dentists in California getting paid $400 a day. Western Dental offered me that same amount after dental school but I turned it down for a better offer elsewhere. But I can understand why dental graduates are willing to take such an offer. It's unrealistic for a dental graduate to expect to start at the top when he/ she first comes out of school with absolutely no experience. After all, when was the last time you saw a raw recruit get promoted to CEO right after college? You gotta start somewhere and it's most likely going to be at the bottom where you have to work your way up the ladder. Dentists often take such an offer because they know it's just a stepping stone. You endure it for a year so that you can gain enough experience to make yourself marketable for the next job. Hence, the high turnover rate at Western Dental. Many private practices do working interviews where you work for them for a day and they get to evaluate the speed, proficiency, and competency of your dentistry. I don't know about you but very few new dental graduates that I know can impress practice owners enough to get hired if there is a working interview involved. That's why they take those low paying associate positions. New dental graduates need places like Western Dental so they can improve their dental skills. And yes...I am fully aware of the crappy quality that comes out of Western Dental.

 

[gryffindor]

Actually, xhamburgersamx is right about many dentists in California getting paid $400 a day.

$400/day in California as an absolute minimum I can see. $250 - $300/day is too low for someone with a DDS because from what I've read on Dentaltown, hygienists in California make that much if not more.

 

[Black Teeth]

$400/day in California as an absolute minimum I can see. $250 - $300/day is too low for someone with a DDS because from what I've read on Dentaltown, hygienists in California make that much if not more.

No disagreement here. It's the minimum alright. It's a low offer but unfortunately it's probably the most common offer from what I can tell, considering that Western Dental dominates the dental community on the West Coast. My other offer wasn't much better in terms of compensation but I preferred it over Western Dental because it was less stressful in terms of the number of patients seen per day. Western Dental is known to be brutal. Some of my former classmates have told me that they see 30-35 patients per day at Western Dental whereas the norm for independent private practitioners is around 20 patients per day. Most new grad dentists are caught in a conundrum when they first come out of school. Do they accept a guaranteed salary regardless of how many patients they see per day? Or do they take their chances and get paid based on production? Getting paid based on production is a little riskier because there is a high chance that they may make less than $400 per day. Most new grads are slow when they first come out of school and probably won't work fast enough to make $400 per day let alone more than $400 per day. After all, dental students often become accustomed to the pace of seeing 2-3 patients per day because that was the pace they were working at in dental school. It's a tough transition. So I can definitely understand why new grads would take the $400 flat rate guaranteed salary per day. When you have high interest loans to pay back, it's safer to take the outrageously low but guaranteed $400 flat rate per day rather than play it risky and accept compensation based on production. Most likely, a new grad who gets paid on production is going to make less money than a new grad who gets paid a $400 flat rate per day. Most new grads are just too slow when they first come out of school.

 

[Plopper]

No disagreement here. It's the minimum alright. It's a low offer but unfortunately it's probably the most common offer from what I can tell, considering that Western Dental dominates the dental community on the West Coast. My other offer wasn't much better in terms of compensation but I preferred it over Western Dental because it was less stressful in terms of the number of patients seen per day. Western Dental is known to be brutal. Some of my former classmates have told me that they see 30-35 patients per day at Western Dental whereas the norm for independent private practitioners is around 20 patients per day. Most new grad dentists are caught in a conundrum when they first come out of school. Do they accept a guaranteed salary regardless of how many patients they see per day? Or do they take their chances and get paid based on production? Getting paid based on production is a little riskier because there is a high chance that they may make less than $400 per day. Most new grads are slow when they first come out of school and probably won't work fast enough to make $400 per day let alone more than $400 per day. After all, dental students often become accustomed to the pace of seeing 2-3 patients per day because that was the pace they were working at in dental school. It's a tough transition. So I can definitely understand why new grads would take the $400 flat rate guaranteed salary per day. When you have high interest loans to pay back, it's safer to take the outrageously low but guaranteed $400 flat rate per day rather than play it risky and accept compensation based on production. Most likely, a new grad who gets paid on production is going to make less money than a new grad who gets paid a $400 flat rate per day. Most new grads are just too slow when they first come out of school.

would a 1 year residency program after graduating help. i mean they basically just stick you in the clinic all day so i would assume that would help with speed and efficiency

 

[Black Teeth]

would a 1 year residency program after graduating help. i mean they basically just stick you in the clinic all day so i would assume that would help with speed and efficiency

A one year AEGD program will absolutely help make you a more competent dentists in terms of clinical hand skills and clinical judgement. Many people will tell you that 1 year of an AEGD is equivalent to 2-3 years in private practice experience. I don't know how true that is. If you ask me, I think 1 year of AEGD is just equivalent to 1 year of private practice experience but that's just my opinion. But one year of an AEGD or private practice experience will vastly improve your competency as a dentist. As for GPRs, my sense is that they are hit or miss. All GPRs will certainly improve your clinical judgement. But some GPRs don't improve your clinical hand skills. For me, that wouldn't be a big deal because although both skills are important, I think it's more critical to establish good clinical judgement early in your dental career than it is to establish good clinical hand skills. The reason being is that I believe it is much easier to improve clinical hand skills in a shorter period of time than clinical judgement. It can take years to develop good clinical judgement. I believe that all dentists eventually develop good clinical hand skills. Some will develop it much faster than others. But not every dentist will develop good clinical judgment. In fact, I think some dentists never develop good clinical judgment because they never established a good basic foundation of clinical knowledge. Most malpractice lawsuits will result because of bad clinical judgement. Very rarely will a malpractice lawsuit result because of bad clinical hand skills.