UNTHSC MD professor's views on DOs

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RetinaTazer

RetinaTazer

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Here is a response from a M.D. and Ob/Gyn professor at UNTHSC:
  • " You are barking up the wrong tree...and your concerns are based on the past, not the future. Being an osteopath has little or nothing to do with being a vitreo-retinal surgeon."
[URL removed]
 
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I find it hard to believe that the clip you posted was this professor's entire response to your letter.
 
This excerpt leaves much to be desired. What is he saying - that DOs can't be eye surgeons? That the Osteopathic philosophy doesn't have a place in a field like eye surgery?

Can you please post the letter you sent and the full reply? Otherwise, it's quite confusing, and I have a hard time believing that a professor at TCOM would be so obtuse toward DOs, so it would be great to get objective information.

Thanks!
 
That was all the content of his email...nothing else...no hi nor bye...

Again, the quote is the full content of the email and it was CC to the UNTHSC president Ransom...
 
This is the letter sent out to the faculty of UNTHSC[URL removed]

The entire reply of that professor:
" You are barking up the wrong tree...and your concerns are based on the past, not the future. Being an osteopath has little or nothing to do with being a vitreo-retinal surgeon."

Nothing else except that he CC to Dr. Ransom
 
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Why dont we make an inquiry to Dr. Ransom for his opinion on the statement by the MD professor?

Dr. Ransom can be reached at [email protected]
 
I have a suspicion as to who the professor might be, and if it is who I think it is, then it's unlikely that the message is meant as derogatory towards DO's. There are some great MD professors at school who feel there is a negligible difference between MD's and DO's, and therefore do not see any issue with an MD school on campus. It's not that they find DO's inferior, it's that they find them to be almost exactly the same, aside from OMT training. The physicians I've met at TCOM have shown nothing but respect and collegiality towards DO's and DO students.

I could be wrong about the author of the email, though, in which case my assumptions could be all off.
 
So if I'm reading him correctly ... he's essentially inferring that the MD program will simply bring in more resources for TCOM in general and since he views MD = DO (ie being an eye surgeon has nothing to do with being a DO), he sees this as a positive all around??
 
JaggerPlate said:
So if I'm reading him correctly ... he's essentially inferring that the MD program will simply bring in more resources for TCOM in general and since he views MD = DO (ie being an eye surgeon has nothing to do with being a DO), he sees this as a positive all around??
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That's what I would take from it. If the author is who I think it is, I'm 100% sure that's what is meant by it.
 
Daedra22 said:
That's what I would take from it. If the author is who I think it is, I'm 100% sure that's what is meant by it.
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Yeah. I think it would be weird to have a MD faculty member at a DO school who's anti-DO err whatever. We have MDs on staff at our hospital and some who help with certain clinical courses, give guest lectures from time to time, etc, and I've never gotten a negative 'sense' from them whatsoever.
 
JaggerPlate said:
So if I'm reading him correctly ... he's essentially inferring that the MD program will simply bring in more resources for TCOM in general and since he views MD = DO (ie being an eye surgeon has nothing to do with being a DO), he sees this as a positive all around??
Click to expand...

reading who correctly? OP or the MD in question?

This thread is so funny.
 
IDBasco said:
reading who correctly? OP or the MD in question?

This thread is so funny.
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The MD in question. I was just confused with his response, but I didn't really read the actual letter sent out so ... I dunno.
 
Bacchus said:
I would have to agree with Daedra. I think his point is why care if you are a DO or MD in the optho world.
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I mean, in Retina's defense, I think he's just proud of TCOM, being a DO, and the opportunities it presented him with. He probably believes the MD school will some how degrade this or dilute this, so he's protecting something he's passionate about. Whether he's a surgeon, FM doc, Ophthalmologist, etc, he still trained at a DO institution, and wants to preserve something he believes in for the next generation.

NOW, the real question is whether or not the new MD school would push the DO school aside, is simply a way to get more $ into the school without thoughtful planning (I know he has a lot of issues with the budget), is trying to use the 'flashy' MD instead of just beefing up the DO program, etc.
 
I understand how you feel Jagger and this is probably why I stopped posting in his other thread, but I feel that the OP is not looking for a discussion. He wants us to rally with him. I understand his drive to do this, but when he continually posts links to his blog with selective sources supporting only his side and his viewpoint, I don't feel the desire to look for an objective source just to cross check.
 
Flushot said:
I understand how you feel Jagger and this is probably why I stopped posting in his other thread, but I feel that the OP is not looking for a discussion. He wants us to rally with him. I understand his drive to do this, but when he continually posts links to his blog with selective sources supporting only his side and his viewpoint, I don't feel the desire to look for an objective source just to cross check.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
First, I am regular member of TOMA and AOA and hold no leadership positions. Second, i dont intend to run for any office because i know my own limitations: my english is broken in 3 and an accent.

You can have doubt about the powerful persons who may want to preserve their power, and etc...

This is the excerpt from the letter to UNTHSC staff:

would like to convey to you how much time i have devoted in the effort of exposing the ill-conceived plan of the current proposed 2nd medical school on campus. Revealing the time consumming and sacrifices from my part, i hope to ask you to be open-minded and take the time to study the issue from all angles before buying into the propaganda that the institution cannot enhance its stature without an "MD" school.


  1. I published 6 Opinion-edtiorials in the local journals over the past 2 years.
  2. I developed a 39-page analysis of the proposed MD program at UNTHSC "A Cost Analysis of The Proposed MD Program at UNTHSC: Spending More and Getting Less." This is a well-researched and referrenced document,which provides counter-arguments to the points offerred in the business plan of the UNTMD proposal.
  3. I developed the "Essence of UNTMD proposal: Unwarranted and Prejudicial"
  4. I have established a new blog [URL removed]http://www.eyedrd.org/[/URL] to provide a forum for discussion of a wide range of issues related to medical/osteopathic medicine, health, eye, societal and international affairs. In less than four months of its inception, it has generated more than 21,600 page-views, and is ranked " #879,980 in the world according to the three-month Alexa traffic rankings, and the site has attained a traffic rank of 162,987 among users in the US." You may want to take a look at this site to learn more about the UNTMD issues: financial donations, economic impact, research potential, medical curriculum difference or less, exodus of faculty members, morality of the students who performed poorer on the national boards than previous years, addressing physician shortage in Tarrant County or Texas, etc...
In conclusion, "I am urging you as educators to take a stand against discrimination and prejudice as implied in the current proposal. I am not opposed to an MD school in Fort Worth or even on UNTHSC campus if there were $1.5 billion investment to make UNTHSC a medical center like Seton Hospital System in Austin is planning on doing. So you can see that $25 million pledges...draw your own conclusion."

So why have i spent so much time on this issue? because i see the maths do not match up... and Karma. I provide evidence to each of my arguments.

Please have a little faith in some people! My blog site always welcome contributors...
 
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[URL removed]
  1. The MD study group was set up at the end of 2008. Its mission was supposed to study the feasibility and the merits of another medical school. However, the push for another medical school and its outcome was already decided in 2006 after Dr. Ransom was hired to assume the presidency of UNTHSC. [URL removed]Dr. Ransom receives the highest salary in the history of the institution, close to $1million per year, which is also the most generous compensation compared to its peers in Texas. [/URL]
  2. UNTMD's business plan proposed $21.5 million for the medical school's start-up cost. The study was initially conducted by PriceWaterhouse-Coopers (PW-C), which has served as consultants for several new medical schools across the nation, and the start-up costs for those schools are at least $100 million. PW-C was reluctant to sign off on the low cost estimates in the UNTMD business plan. The business plan was then sent to another consulting firm, Deloitte – Touche, which signed off on the plan's numbers only with the assumption that the facts provided by UNTHSC stand correct.
    [*]The claim of strong local community support for a second medical school does not translate into real financial support. The $25 million in pledges, while a sizable amount, are not high enough to fund the UNTMD project nor [URL removed]compared to other communities' efforts building new schools across the nation[/URL].
    [*]The roots of a potential physician shortage in Tarrant County result from the lack of residency slots to train medical graduates and not from the number of medical students. Currently, the existing medical school, the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (the founding college of UNTHSC), will be producing more than 230 medical graduates per year, while there are only about 70 entry-level residency positions (meaning 210-250 new residency slots are needed) per year in Tarrant County. UNTMD's proposal to add another 100 medical students per year is a travesty; it expects Texas taxpayers to foot the bills for the $200,000 cost for each medical student, many of whom will leave for other states because there is a severe shortage of residency slots in Texas.
    [*]UNTMD propaganda claims it is cost-free to the state of Texas for the first 5 years (2011-16). The cost alone of educating the students from 2013-2016 amounts to $30 million, as it plans on admitting the first class of 100 students starting in 2013. Where would the $30 million come from?
 
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As several readers have questioned the entirety of the content and the context because they do not believe how a professor could only provide such a pointed and short reply. Some seems to start accusing the ‘bashing" of one of the best professors, even though I never revealed the identity. I believe in the debate of issues rather than personal attack. Therefore, the following communication exchanges, the name will be crossed out.

[URL removed]
 
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RetinaTazer said:
As several readers have questioned the entirety of the content and the context because they do not believe how a professor could only provide such a pointed and short reply. Some seems to start accusing the ‘bashing” of one of the best professors, even though I never revealed the identity. I believe in the debate of issues rather than personal attack. Therefore, the following communication exchanges, the name will be crossed out.

http://www.eyedrd.org/2011/02/earlier-communications-with-same-md.html
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This is what I am talking about. You will not be convinced in any way, shape or form and this professor knows it. Your dedication to TCOM is admirable, but there needs to come a point where enough is enough.

Like this professor has stated, this model has worked for MSU. I don't know if an MD school will come to Fort Worth eventually, but wouldn't you want it to be under the command of UNT if this was the case?
 
Flushot said:
This is what I am talking about. You will not be convinced in any way, shape or form and this professor knows it. Your dedication to TCOM is admirable, but there needs to come a point where enough is enough.

Like this professor has stated, this model has worked for MSU. I don't know if an MD school will come to Fort Worth eventually, but wouldn't you want it to be under the command of UNT if this was the case?
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I am a student at TCOM, and like this student, I also admire your support and devotion to TCOM RetinaTazer. But like this student and the TCOM faculty member stated, wouldn't it be better for us to have the MD school so that we can call the shots? I hear everything you are saying. But the fact of the matter is that these hospitals are going to partner with an MD school. Nothing you or I say about this is going to change anything. A lot of students would much rather have that partnership happen with UNTHSC, and not some other MD school. If they partner with an MD school that is not apart of UNTHSC, it would be so hard for us to find rotation spots in Fort Worth. If we could have direct ties and a primary teaching hospital affiliated with UNTHSC, that would be a dream come true!! We are already one of the best osteopathic schools without a teaching hospital, imagine what we could do with a teaching hospital. The health care we could deliver to tarrant county would be amazing as well.
 
spursss said:
I am a student at TCOM, and like this student, I also admire your support and devotion to TCOM RetinaTazer. But like this student and the TCOM faculty member stated, wouldn't it be better for us to have the MD school so that we can call the shots? I hear everything you are saying. But the fact of the matter is that these hospitals are going to partner with an MD school. Nothing you or I say about this is going to change anything. A lot of students would much rather have that partnership happen with UNTHSC, and not some other MD school. If they partner with an MD school that is not apart of UNTHSC, it would be so hard for us to find rotation spots in Fort Worth. If we could have direct ties and a primary teaching hospital affiliated with UNTHSC, that would be a dream come true!! We are already one of the best osteopathic schools without a teaching hospital, imagine what we could do with a teaching hospital. The health care we could deliver to tarrant county would be amazing as well.
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So, in your opinion, the strength of the DO program isn't enough to merit an affiliation with a teaching hospital, but adding an unproven, brand new MD program is? Or are you saying that the MD program will bring in the money to build an academic medical center?
 
Flushot said:
This is what I am talking about. You will not be convinced in any way, shape or form and this professor knows it. Your dedication to TCOM is admirable, but there needs to come a point where enough is enough.

Like this professor has stated, this model has worked for MSU. I don't know if an MD school will come to Fort Worth eventually, but wouldn't you want it to be under the command of UNT if this was the case?
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America is a free country, you can choose your career pathway. You have chosen a minority profession...enuf of having inferiority complex syndrome!

Believe me that Ransom and that professor have no idea about how MSU DO and MD work. I was trained at MSU..every year there is more allopathic hospital applying to be part of the State Wide Campus System. Last time i checked there were 29 hospitals in MI affiliated with MSU-COM.
Do you know why 80-90% of MSU students choose AOA match and forgo to do residency at Mayo or Cleveland Clinics?

I am not against an MD school in FW or even on UNTHSC...I am against the current proposal based on financial issues and merits. These will destroy TCOM.

Ransom was able to secure $25 million pledges from the community, it is a sizable amount, but not even comparable to the philanthropic donations in other communities for new MD schools, even DO schools get more support than UNTMD.

If they want a MD school, they have to pay a fair price, not using TCOM as a cash cow.

[URL removed]
 
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this is a quote from a comment left on my blog

"Interesting -- so doesn't it strike you as odd that these clinical rotation slots magically appear if/when the MD school is opened? But if it's TCOM-only, the clinical rotation slots aren't there? Hmm, no thanks, I won't (as a D.O.) sit at the back of the bus just because some incompletely trained allopathic physician says to....yeah, I said incompletely trained, they have no clue about the paradigm that we D.O.'s operate from....
As a D.O. student, you really can't appreciate the difference. Believe me, I asked that question as a student,"What makes us different" thinking it was just a bunch of archaic stuff from 'old line' D.O.'s who were hanging on to a bygone paradigm. It took about 4 months of an allopathic residency for the answer to become crystal clear.

Osteopathy is not restricted to OMT -- it's a paradigm, a gestalt, a way of viewing a patient that has to be experienced to be appreciated....for those that aren't D.O.'s....you'll just never understand...... "
 
"A famous patient and friend of the founder of Osteopathy once made a remark that may be relevant to this situation. Mark Twain said, "Asking an M.D. about Osteopathy is like asking the Devil about Jesus Christ." Enlightenment of even the most erudite educators may be akin to trying to sell a Buick to Henry Ford."
 
RetinaTazer said:
Here is a response from a M.D. and Ob/Gyn professor at UNTHSC:
  • " You are barking up the wrong tree...and your concerns are based on the past, not the future. Being an osteopath has little or nothing to do with being a vitreo-retinal surgeon."
http://www.eyedrd.org/2011/02/response-from-md-professor-at-unthsc-to.html
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I am a DO and I dont have a problem with that statement...it makes sense...what the heck does being a DO have anything to do with being a vitreo-retinal surgeon..take random opthamlogists, half DO and half MD, and without knowing who is which, I bet YOU COULD NOT TELL THEM APART. There is a difference here...between the ideologues and the rationalists. The rational DO's know there is virtually nothing different in practice between the majority of DO's and MD's. It is silly to continue to say DO's are different when evidence staring them in the face says otherwise....It's just ideological delusion.
 
RetinaTazer said:
this is a quote from a comment left on my blog

"Osteopathy is not restricted to OMT -- it's a paradigm, a gestalt, a way of viewing a patient that has to be experienced to be appreciated....for those that aren't D.O.'s....you'll just never understand...... "
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I mean...that is baloney...I went through 4 years of osteopathic medical school and I dont know what your talking about in terms of "a gestalt, a way of viewing a patient". That is crap....I have seen DO's treat patients like crap and have seen MD's treat patients as a "whole". So I dont know what your exeprience is, but it is definitely not like mine.
 
Pansit said:
I am a DO and I dont have a problem with that statement...it makes sense...what the heck does being a DO have anything to do with being a vitreo-retinal surgeon..take random opthamlogists, half DO and half MD, and without knowing who is which, I bet YOU COULD NOT TELL THEM APART. There is a difference here...between the ideologues and the rationalists. The rational DO's know there is virtually nothing different in practice between the majority of DO's and MD's. It is silly to continue to say DO's are different when evidence staring them in the face says otherwise....It's just ideological delusion.
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Being a DO or osteopath has to do a lot to become an ophthalmologist. Without the medical knowledge, i would not be practicing medicine and the specialty i am in. So being a DO or osteopath (because MDs still call us that).
DO and MD are physicians period! DOs represent only 7% of workforce, it is up to us DOs to promote our brand, not superior nor less, just our brand to the public.

When you see discrimination against you, then defend yourself, don't give in and do not be afraid to stand apart and unique.

This is a free country, we can choose which career pathway to embark on.

Please my blog, which provides discussion, not taking sides. It aims at fostering discussion and making positive changes in our profession and healthcare.
 
Perhaps RetinaTazer could provide a specific example or two of what he does differently as an osteopathic vitreo-retinal specialist compared to his MD colleagues...?
 
JaggerPlate said:
Here's a more important Ophthalmology related question ....

Did you guys know that ODs in Kentucky are currently achieving surgical rights:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=797701

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=798366

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=798332

As we sit here and bicker over superficial matters, the big issues are passing us by and truthfully affected the future of MEDICINE (not just DOs, not just DOs in Texas) in general.
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I am well aware of those battles as i am a member of AAO (American Academy of Ophthalmology).

In Toward Osteopathic Psychiatry:
[URL removed]

I was surprised to find that my commentary was referrenced as introduction of a psychiatry article, recently published in the Journal of American Osteopathic Association. Dr. Niall McLaren, a psychiatrist practicing in Australia, embraces the holistic approach of osteopathic medicine.

He outlined my 3 reasons for osteopathic medicine should exist.
 
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Well-Funded Optometry Pushes Optometric Surgery Bill Through in Kentucky
Battle Highlights Urgent Need For Surgical Scope Fund
.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Despite an aggressive ground campaign waged by the Academy, the Kentucky Academy of Eye Physicians and Surgeons and the Kentucky Medical Association to protect patient surgical safety, the Kentucky House this morning passed precedent-setting legislation (SB 110) 82-14. SB 110 now goes to Gov. Steve Beshear for his consideration; the Senate passed the bill late last week..
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Optometry refused to admit patient-safety problems in SB 110 and secured its passage, even with a coordinated education and awareness campaign that involved:.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the governor signs SB 110, Kentucky optometrists would have the authority to perform: .
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Laser procedures, including laser trabeculoplasty, peripheral iridotomy, iridoplasty and capsulotomy, yag capsulotomies, LASEK and laser “only” clear-lens extraction, as well as other laser procedures.
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Incisional surgery (“Scalpel procedures”), with exceptions.
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]All methods of administering pharmaceutical agents, including injection procedures, except schedules I and II .
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Local and regional anesthesia.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SB 110 also includes the creation of an independent optometric board; no other board or state agency would have the authority to question what constitutes the practice of optometry. The optometric board could expand optometric scope of practice as it solely determines, without any legislative or regulatory oversight..
 
RetinaTazer, I find it unfortunate and somewhat confusing that you accused me of having an inferior complex syndrome. I'll just leave it at that, since I am quite confident and happy with what I've done so far.

The Kentucky story that you and Jagger now speak of is much more concerning to me. Like the stories we get about DNPs, this is what will ultimately hurt the profession.
 
RetinaTazer said:
Dr. Niall McLaren, a psychiatrist practicing in Australia, embraces the holistic approach of osteopathic medicine.

He outlined my 3 reasons for osteopathic medicine should exist.
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Reason #3 doesn't even make sense. How does having two separate pathways to medical practice in this country make a case against other "paramedical" professions advancing their agendas?

The point about legislatively advancing agendas also betrays the author's ignorance about the history of osteopathic medicine in this country. DOs did not always have practice rights in every state in the US. In my state (NY) it required a lawsuit to prevent hospitals from refusing DOs admitting privileges on the basis of their degree. The so-called "paramedical" professions are simply taking a play from the osteopathic book, so to speak.

By the way, RetinaTazer, I am still curious how a DO ophthalmologist and vitreo-retinal specialist like yourself practices any differently from your MD counterparts...
 
wanna_be_do said:
By the way, RetinaTazer, I am still curious how a DO ophthalmologist and vitreo-retinal specialist like yourself practices any differently from your MD counterparts...
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He views the eye as part of a whole person....his counterparts do not.😉
 
RetinaTazer said:
Being a DO or osteopath has to do a lot to become an ophthalmologist. Without the medical knowledge, i would not be practicing medicine and the specialty i am in. So being a DO or osteopath (because MDs still call us that).
DO and MD are physicians period! DOs represent only 7% of workforce, it is up to us DOs to promote our brand, not superior nor less, just our brand to the public.

When you see discrimination against you, then defend yourself, don't give in and do not be afraid to stand apart and unique.

This is a free country, we can choose which career pathway to embark on.

Please my blog, which provides discussion, not taking sides. It aims at fostering discussion and making positive changes in our profession and healthcare.
Click to expand...

You response makes no sense? We all know that DO's are only 7%...that doesnt address how they are any different. You WANT to think a DO neurosurgeon somehow treats patient differently than an MD one. Too bad the truth is that they DONT! There probably more "holistic" MD's than DO's out there in the workforce. Continuing to insist there is a difference in PRACTICE is a delusion.
 
JaggerPlate said:
So, in your opinion, the strength of the DO program isn't enough to merit an affiliation with a teaching hospital, but adding an unproven, brand new MD program is?
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Don't your remember the business plan (bottom link) for the MD school? One doesn't even have to read between the lines (emphasis added):

Page 18:
The opportunity to strengthen relationships with clinical providers is of high importance to the entire Health Science Center. Several hospitals have become founding donors to the UNTMD program. Although teaching relationships for TCOM and other students currently exist with local and state-wide providers, the UNTHSC and TCOM are the only health science center and medical school in the state that do not have a comprehensive relationship with one or more primary teaching hospitals to support the clinical education needs of its students. The new program provides an opportunity to cement stronger relationships with several key clinical providers and bind them to the UNTHSC with new affiliation agreements that can help secure the future of all the UNTHSC programs. Specifically, by having both MD and DO programs, several community hospitals have indicated even stronger and more permanent support for clinical educational opportunities for all the UNTHSC students. These stronger hospital and clinical relationships will help transition the UNTHSC to a comprehensive academic health science center with comprehensive primary hospital affiliations that support more expanded clinical education, research, joint faculty recruitment, fundraising, and other opportunities.
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Page 19:
Community and business leaders in Fort Worth have expressed strong interest in a new MD program at the UNTHSC to enhance the university, to support the hospitals, to expand the physician base, to improve healthcare, to expand student choice in becoming either an MD or DO physician, to provide patient choice in being cared for by either an MD or DO, and to drive economic growth. The MD program presents the UNTHSC with an enormous opportunity to be more relevant to the community of Fort Worth and Tarrant County. This expanded relevance will help support a more secure and permanent partnership with greater collaborative opportunities for all the UNTHSC programs with the Fort Worth community, including: hospitals, businesses, physicians, political leaders, philanthropic supporters, and others. A competing, non-UNTHSC, Fort Worth MD-granting school likely will result in diminished relevance of the UNTHSC to major community stakeholders, which will compromise long-term institutional growth and success.
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Parts Unknown said:
Don't your remember the business plan (bottom link) for the MD school? One doesn't even have to read between the lines (emphasis added):
Click to expand...

I don't actually. The information that's been coming out on the boards has been all over the place, and I haven't had time to really do the research on my own. So I guess the point is: certain hospitals have expressed (or UNT has interpreted it as such) that they would build stronger ties with a DO and MD program (still don't quite understand why an unproven, brand new MD program would strengthen the relationship between hospitals and one of the strongest DO programs out there - all about image I guess) and they fear that another MD school will open in TX regardless and take away spots that could be used for all of UNT in general?
 
Pansit said:
You WANT to think a DO neurosurgeon somehow treats patient differently than an MD one. Too bad the truth is that they DONT! There probably more "holistic" MD's than DO's out there in the workforce. Continuing to insist there is a difference in PRACTICE is a delusion.
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I'm not going to sit here and defend a 'philosophy' that really doesn't separate the Allo from Osteo professions in clinical practice (as you've pointed out), but is it really SO crazy to think that some aspect of his pre-clinical DO education may have caused him to present himself differently in clinicals, residency, and practice?

Granted, I agree with you that a DO or MD neurosurgeon would operate identically and stick with the most proven, scientific methods in the operating room (ie - you aren't going to see a DO attending start performing OMM during the middle of a complicated neurosurgery), but to claim that there couldn't have been SOME aspect of his education that can be attributed in SOME respect to the 'osteopathic-ness' associated with his school, that altered the way he interacts with patients, makes decisions, presents himself in SOME way, is making a big leap to me.
 
JaggerPlate said:
I don't actually. The information that's been coming out on the boards has been all over the place, and I haven't had time to really do the research on my own. So I guess the point is: certain hospitals have expressed (or UNT has interpreted it as such) that they would build stronger ties with a DO and MD program (still don't quite understand why an unproven, brand new MD program would strengthen the relationship between hospitals and one of the strongest DO programs out there - all about image I guess) and they fear that another MD school will open in TX regardless and take away spots that could be used for all of UNT in general?
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I would be lying if I said I knew the motivations behind the hospital systems in question. Perhaps image is a concern, but beneath these situations is usually a cauldron of inter-institutional politics that we are not privy to.

That said, UNTHSC's posture suggests that somebody high up in its ranks has seen some writing on a wall.
 
Parts Unknown said:
I would be lying if I said I knew the motivations behind the hospital systems in question. Perhaps image is a concern, but beneath these situations is usually a cauldron of inter-institutional politics that we are not privy to.

That said, UNTHSC's posture suggests that somebody high up in its ranks has seen some writing on a wall.
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Yeah, like you said, if it's over your head, then it's WAY over mine, but the idea of simply adding an unproven MD system to quell the worries of hospital higher up seems weird to me. If this were the case, every DO school should add some 'house of cards' MD program on paper, admit no students through it, and allow the hospitals to advertise with it (we're associated with X MD program) and swoop up some solid clinical spots :laugh:
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yeah, like you said, if it's over your head, then it's WAY over mine, but the idea of simply adding an unproven MD system to quell the worries of hospital higher up seems weird to me. If this were the case, every DO school should add some 'house of cards' MD program on paper, admit no students through it, and allow the hospitals to advertise with it (we're associated with X MD program) and swoop up some solid clinical spots :laugh:
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I don't know how "unproven" the MD school would be, since UNTHSC clearly has a lot of experience training medical students. One couldn't really set up an MD front school, either, as LCME accreditation would prevent such a thing from existing.

Given the apparent circumstances surrounding this issue, UNT's move here is really quite clever.
 
Parts Unknown said:
I don't know how "unproven" the MD school would be, since UNTHSC clearly has a lot of experience training medical students. One couldn't really set up an MD front school, either, as LCME accreditation would prevent such a thing from existing.

Given the apparent circumstances surrounding this issue, UNT's move here is really quite clever.
Click to expand...

I was kidding and I'm well aware of what it takes to be LCME accredited. However, my point is that UNT has built their reputation training DOs, so you think hospitals would feel comfortable aligning themselves with this reputation, but I find it a bit odd (if this is the case) that they would need some sort of further reassurance via an MD program which at this point in time is (for all intents and purposes) unproven.

Again though ... I haven't followed the issue much and I have no inside knowledge, so all conjecture.
 
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