UOP vs. Harvard??

[DentalGenius]

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Hey guys,

I am new to SDN, but saw a lot of your input and thought it could be useful,
SOO, what do you guys think... UOP vs. Harvard, and why?? I know I have time, but I'm still undecided...

Hope Nov. 30th/Dec. 1st acceptances are treating everyone really well 🙂

 

[shamrock2006]

Depends on what you want bud. UoP is a 3 yr program...some like the idea of being done in 3...some people that i've spoken to seem to think that b/c its a 36 month program that they are leaving out things that other schools use 44+ months to accomplish....Doesnt really matter to me either way. Harvard, some would say, is like a "guaranteed" specialty...of course I put that in qoutes b/c nothing is for sure but coming from Harvard wont hurt you that's for sure. These are good problems to have. You cant go wrong at either school.

 

[armorshell]

If you want I can put you in touch with some classmates who made the same choice, PM if you're interested.

 

[Khala Jaan]

are u kidding....harvard is like out of this world number one! n u get to say "hahr-vard" where as uop is always uop

lol jp....thats amazing, congrats!

 

[armorshell]

are u kidding....harvard is like out of this world number one! n u get to say "hahr-vard" where as uop is always uop

lol jp....thats amazing, congrats!

You should meet the dean, he seems hell bent on having our school be known solely as "The Arthur Dugoni School of Dentistry"

 

[dentstd]

ban Dentalgenius for trolling! One post history. and it's a UoP vs America's most recognizable and prestigious school?!?! This is a troll post. fo sho.

 

[DentalGenius]

what is trolling?

 

[DentalGenius]

i really dont mean to be rude, but im sorry, im new to sdn, unsure about what i want to do and where to go, all i want is some honest opinions...

i didnt feel completely at home at harvard, so to some people the answer could be clear cut, but for me its not

im not trolling, or trying to cause trouble, just a little confused

 

[armorshell]

ban Dentalgenius for trolling! One post history. and it's a UoP vs America's most recognizable and prestigious school?!?! This is a troll post. fo sho.

You should tell that to the people in my class who got accepted to Harvard.

Or ask IHD. He dumped scholarships at Harvard and UPenn for Pacific then turned tail on us for UCSF for the $ factor.

 

[Katalyst]

The two school are at a contrast. Harvard is very research oriented and many breakthroughs in dental materials are from Harvard graduates. There is much money in this, but it's not the same side of dentistry that I personally find so attractive. I managed a volunteer dental clinic after Katrina in New Orleans and worked with 100s of volunteer dentists from many different schools. (I know I'm bound to offend some people, so sorry) From my experience UoP produces outstanding dentists without a small percentage of graduates needing for a GP residency. The 2 Harvard graduates I met worked for insurance companies and had some of the worst doctor-patient interaction I have seen (NYU grad.s were the absolute worst IMO). Both Boston and San Francisco are on equal playing fields when it comes to the charisma of the cities, but you cannot put a price-tag on time. Depending on how old you are, the 3 year program may begin to weigh in on your decision, getting a year back out of your life.

One thing to note, I always thought it was funny that nearly every dentist would tell me that their school was the number 1 school for dentistry, including Harvard, North Carolina, San Antonio, Creighton, Tufts, NYU, UoP, UCSF, UCLA, and Loma Linda. In my opinion what makes a great dentist is their ability to solve problems and make the patient feel comfortable while doing it. UoP produces better dentists than Harvard. If you'd be interested in product development, discovering the next Xylitol, or dental robotics, then go to Harvard.

I would choose UoP.

 

[dentstd]

You should tell that to the people in my class who got accepted to Harvard.

Or ask IHD. He dumped scholarships at Harvard and UPenn for Pacific then turned tail on us for UCSF for the $ factor.

try me again in a few years. the existance of people who made that choice doesn't convince me that the choice was sound.

and it's less UoP vs Harvard as School vs Harvard.

 

[armorshell]

try me again in a few years. the existance of people who made that choice doesn't convince me that the choice was sound.

and it's less UoP vs Harvard as School vs Harvard.

I'm sure Harvard's a great school, and it's very well known. However this doesn't mean that it's automatically objectively the best school for everyone. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't make them a troll.

Katalyst summed it up nicely, the schools simply have different emphases.

 

[Mia305]

The two school are at a contrast. Harvard is very research oriented and many breakthroughs in dental materials are from Harvard graduates. There is much money in this, but it's not the same side of dentistry that I personally find so attractive.

I think that this is a bit of a misconception about Harvard. While research is a requirement for the students, it is only for a short period of time and not the main focus of the school. They all said that it is the faculty that is heavily into research moreso than the students. Also, of allthe students I talked to during my interview, none were going into any research/insurance/materials/etc. aspect of dentistry, but had already applied to and been accepted to various residency programs.

 

[rollypolly]

DentalGenius - you should go where you feel that you will be the happiest. If you didn't feel like you were at home at Harvard, you should try to figure out why, and if it is something that you would likely overcome. I personally didn't apply to UoP, but I've heard that it is a great school. You should think about what you like about each school. I think UoP is awesome because it's 3 years and Harvard is awesome because the class size. You should also think about what you don't like about each school. How do you feel about SF and Boston? I agree with armorshell that it isn't a given that you would choose Harvard.

 

[bass for less]

i hope i don't end up having to make such a great decision because it's going to be real tough, but since i may, let me throw in my 2 cents in UOP vs. Harvard.

Comfort of Living: 👍UOP
i live close to SF and SF/CA is just probably the most comfortable place to live IMO.. it has everything a great city should have: prosperity, creativity, beach (yes!), characters... and CA's unbelievable weather (ex. this past winter i enjoyed in 80 degree sunniness while east and midwest are having their share of snowstorms)

Living Expense: 👎Both
i don't even want to think about the cost of living in SF... it's worse than LA's traffic. and i found that from my trip to boston that it's not any better

Curriculum: 👍UOP　　👍Harvard
UOP makes great dentists in 365 days less than rest of the country. i have heard multiple people saying good things about UOP graduates. to me that kind of efficiency and focus says a lot about the quality of the program. Harvard on the other hand applies PBL (when well applied it is a higher level of learning: Research (creating knowledge) > PBL (active seeking > Lecture (passive receiving)) on a bunch of top, motivated students. i think the compounding power would be very significant. Each school has its edge here. if you just know you want to specialize or work in the academia, then the choice is obvious. too bad that i don't at this point.

Debt factor: both sucks and both worth it.

Culture: 👍UOP 👍Harvard
From my observation, the UOP culture is unseen in other campus, and the school's pride in keeping its tradition and name makes it very special. the students' confidence, happiness, and willingness to give back to the school make UOP a clear rarity.
Attending Harvard in itself suggests you are the elite among the elites. with its handful of graduates, going class together with its medical students, accessing the harvard resources... the potential doors Harvard education could open for one is hard to top. plus bostonians get to watch the patriots, redsox, and celtics play (hate to see your home teams suck..)

my conclusion is... when there's no wrong choice it's hard to make one.

 

[dentstd]

where else can you retake the SAME test when you fail it? to have zero competition and a VERY high chance of getting a specialty. Harvard's the weight and burden of a grueling 4 years lifted off your shoulders. At least, as close to it as you're going to get.

And did I mention Harvard's specialty placement's almost as high as UoP's general practice placement? This is quite possibly the biggest, most consequential difference btwn the 2 schools.

 

[jmick101]

And did I mention Harvard's specialty placement's almost as high as UoP's general practice placement? This is quite possibly the biggest, most consequential difference btwn the 2 schools.

That is comparing apples to oranges pal. Pacific puts out quality GPs. How about comparing a fresh Harvard grad to a fresh Pacific grad in the clinic and see about consequential differences.

 

[lolalola]

Trolling!!!!

 

[SHC1984]

Did the OP get acceptances from Harvard or Uop??? anyone that got accepted to Harvard would be smart enough to make their OWN decision...so I doubt he got accepted...

 

[armorshell]

I can guarantee DentalGenius isn't a troll, because trolls don't have long PM conversations about their choice 🙄

Just because you're all so hot for Harvard you can't see past your giant boners for it doesn't mean that other people can't have trouble choosing.

 

[armorshell]

where else can you retake the SAME test when you fail it? to have zero competition and a VERY high chance of getting a specialty. Harvard's the weight and burden of a grueling 4 years lifted off your shoulders. At least, as close to it as you're going to get.

And did I mention Harvard's specialty placement's almost as high as UoP's general practice placement? This is quite possibly the biggest, most consequential difference btwn the 2 schools.

This means very little IMO. Specialty placement is a worthless statistic lauded by schools trying to take credit for their students success.

If you took any student that specialized in Harvard's curriculum, took them back to day one at dental school at Pacific and ran them through again, I guarantee you they'd be able to specialize from UoP without too much trouble. Why? Because Harvard only accepts the creme de la creme as a poster mentioned above. I can't understand why people are surprised when a school with a 24 average AA on the DAT send out a bunch of specialists.

You also have to take into account motivation. You're so ingrained with this idea that specialization rate makes a school that you forget there are people out there who want to be GP's from day one. You'll find the majority of our class at UoP are these type, because the school shaves a year off of your education and because of the lack of specialties on campus.

You can't fairly compare a specialty rate of 20% vs. 80% without talking about the number that actually tried to specialize at the same time.

 

[dentstd]

That is comparing apples to oranges pal. Pacific puts out quality GPs. How about comparing a fresh Harvard grad to a fresh Pacific grad in the clinic and see about consequential differences.

consequential difference here's probably over a hundred grand extra in favor of Harvard. and everyone likes to compare fresh grads, because those that've done work lab work have better skills. I'll give Pacific that. a couple years into practice to the remainder of their lives, that's a different story. based on the dentists' commitment to improving their skills over their career. a dentists' skills even out over time

 

[dentstd]

If you took any student that specialized in Harvard's curriculum, took them back to day one at dental school at Pacific and ran them through again, I guarantee you they'd be able to specialize from UoP without too much trouble. Why? Because Harvard only accepts the creme de la creme as a poster mentioned above. I can't understand why people are surprised when a school with a 24 average AA on the DAT send out a bunch of specialists.

You also have to take into account motivation. You're so ingrained with this idea that specialization rate makes a school that you forget there are people out there who want to be GP's from day one. You'll find the majority of our class at UoP are these type, because the school shaves a year off of your education and because of the lack of specialties on campus.

I absolutely agree with you in that Harvard attracts the best of the best, so most end up specializing. So, a top student can go to most schools and still end up where he wants to be. But in the popular case, highly qualified students can go to USC and not graduate. There, something about the school is deficient and the students aren't able to perform at a level expected. I think UoP's condensed 3 year curriculum prevents their students from having adequate study time. Being able to sneak in studying in the 2-3 hr dinner break and in the 2hrs at night isn't enough. I think UoP attracts many exceptional students each year, but their rate of specialty placement is much lower than expected, especially when considering the high AA/PAT of the entering students. Something about UoP leads me to believe that even top students aren't reaching their potential there.

The only plausible explanation to the contrary is that UoP attracts top students who already knew they wanted to be generalists. That'd explain everything nicely. But I'm gonna be cynical and say that money drives decisions. The money in specialty fields should attract even UoP students, and I wonder why they havn't gone for it and gotten it.

 

[armorshell]

The only plausible explanation to the contrary is that UoP attracts top students who already knew they wanted to be generalists. That's explain everything nicely. But I'm gonna be cynical and say that money drives decisions. The money in specialty fields should attract even UoP students, and I wonder why they havn't gone for it and gotten it.

Well, my defense would be to show that:
1. There are probably a lot of people out there who share your thoughts, and thus shy away from UoP as it is perceived to be "bad for specializing"

2. In general, I believe the type of people who attend a school specifically because it affords them the chance to shave a year off of their education typically aren't the type to shoot for post-grad residencies. For example, my big sis is at the top of her class, brilliant, great with her hands and has no plans to specialize because she's "too old for that." You see a lot of that here.

 

[armorshell]

I feel it's also important for me to say in no way do I think UoP is the end-all-be-all of schools for everything, and it's definitely not the ultimate school for wannabe specialists. For that Harvard, Columbia, UCLA and the like probably have some advantages whether it be connections, programs or even just a little more time.

All I'm trying to say is Pacific definitely isn't deficient at putting people into specialties, and might even be a little above average considering there's no specialties on campus so you can get a lot of clinical experience within your specialty of choice.

 

[DentalGenius]

hey guys,

this post seems to have stirred up alot of talk... yes, i did find out on friday that i got into both schools, so i just wanted to get some opinions. and its really not an easy decision.

 

[juggamynugga]

i might have a little different perspective on specializing from PACIFIC. i didn't initially know that i wanted to specialize but i did want to keep my options open so i tried very hard to do my best. ended up staying towards the upper part of the class and did decent on boards. Ended up getting into a couple endo programs when i applied.

I personally feel that one huge benefit about PACIFIC is that whether you are going to be a GP or a specialist you are going to have a much more extensive clinical experience than at almost any other school. We do not have residency programs so we get to do everything. At many schools many of the more complex procedures are given to the post grad programs.

At PACIFIC i have been lucky enough to have completed many retreats and molar root canals and have learned warm vertical in addition to lateral condensation for endo. Last thursday i cemented 14 units on the lower arch of my patient. We are using invisalign on the upper arch to intrude the incisors to create restorative space. In oral surgery we do almost all of the extractions besides those really crazy full bony impactions. we do all of our own perio surgeries as well.

I think that this really gives you the opportunity to get a good sense of what you really like and dislike while in dental school. you can only get so much from observing in my opinion. as far as specializing from here, so far of the people who applied (13) 11 have been accepted. Oral surgery and pedo isn't until January. That doesn't include GPR's but those programs match in january too.

I am sure that the shorter curriculum is not for everyone and there are many other great dental schools but when looking at PACIFIC's clinical experience there is no comparison. i think that a lot of entering dental students do not know what type of clinical experience they will have when they eventually enter clinic. I know that i didn't, but i think it is one of the most important things you should consider. just my thoughts.