UoP vs. MWU-AZ

[HypotheticalSituation]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey all,

Which of the following two programs would you pick, assuming you were accepted to both AND had an HPSP (full ride) to each program.

• Option 1: UoP
• Option 2: MWU-AZ

Also please let me know why you'd go for the school you picked.

 

[BeaverLover]

Interviewed at MWU, didn't apply for UoP because of their accelerated curriculum.

 

[joker937]

UOP

 

[periopocket]

UOP

 

[HypotheticalSituation]

Thank you for responding!

@BeaverLover , do you think the UoP curriculum is too stressful?
@joker937 @periopocket why do you guys prefer UoP?

 

[ncide]

UOP

 

[BeaverLover]

@HypotheticalSituation I know dental school is going to be difficult...just didn't want it to be faster than it already is ya know? Obviously others can handle the pace, but for me I want to take my time and do the four years.

 

[Cello]

I was accepted to both. I chose MWU-AZ for a few reasons. First of all, UoP was my favorite interview, and was my #1 before I even interviewed there. Oddly enough, MWU-AZ didn't impress me much during the interview. I felt like they were trying to sell me a bunch of stuff I didn't care about. But the more research I did, the higher MWU-AZ climbed, until it gained parity with UoP. Some of my circumstances are unique to me of course, but here are some of the things I considered:

1. The 3-year accelerated curriculum worried me a bit. I am in no rush to finish despite starting school at 30, and I saw no significant financial benefit to attending a 3-year program over the 4-year program once factoring in the debt load and cost of living situation.
2. Both programs are similar, but you get the extra year at MWU-AZ. I had no idea what my hand skills were like (I still largely don't) and so I would rather err on the side of caution and assume that I need more practice and time to really get to the level of competency I want to achieve out of school.
3. San Francisco is outrageously expensive. Even in super nice Scottsdale we are paying a fraction of what we would have for a smaller place in San Fran.
4. My fiancee had a job offer in Phoenix, though we would have figured out a way to go to San Francisco if I had really wanted to. UCSF was hiring in her field, so it was possible.
5. Students I spoke with at other programs during my interviews were super impressed with MWU-AZ students they had done residency interviews or externships with.

Both are great schools, probably the top clinical programs in the nation. I don't think you can go wrong with either, unless you are passing up a cheaper instate option that is... I recommend that you list the pros and cons of each and go from there like I did.

A few things I like about both schools.

The culture is phenomenal
Top clinical training in the nation
Boards after the 1st year and then you focus on clinical dentistry from there on
Great faculty and staff
Both schools are progressive and changing, they are not mired in tired old traditions

UoP has some distinct advantages though:

San Francisco is a great city to be young (though Phoenix has its charms too)
UoP has one of the most powerful alumni associations in the nation
They have an incredible history and have produced some of the nation's great dentists
Everyone in the field knows UoP's reputation
3 years and then you are DONE!

The downsides to both which I'm sure you know:

Expensive
Low specialization rate
Expensive
Intense 1st year
Expensive

 

[HypotheticalSituation]

UOP

Why do you say this?

I was accepted to both. I chose MWU-AZ for a few reasons. First of all, UoP was my favorite interview, and was my #1 before I even interviewed there. Oddly enough, MWU-AZ didn't impress me much during the interview. I felt like they were trying to sell me a bunch of stuff I didn't care about. But the more research I did, the higher MWU-AZ climbed, until it gained parity with UoP. Some of my circumstances are unique to me of course, but here are some of the things I considered:

1. The 3-year accelerated curriculum worried me a bit. I am in no rush to finish despite starting school at 30, and I saw no significant financial benefit to attending a 3-year program over the 4-year program once factoring in the debt load and cost of living situation.
2. Both programs are similar, but you get the extra year at MWU-AZ. I had no idea what my hand skills were like (I still largely don't) and so I would rather err on the side of caution and assume that I need more practice and time to really get to the level of competency I want to achieve out of school.
3. San Francisco is outrageously expensive. Even in super nice Scottsdale we are paying a fraction of what we would have for a smaller place in San Fran.
4. My fiancee had a job offer in Phoenix, though we would have figured out a way to go to San Francisco if I had really wanted to. UCSF was hiring in her field, so it was possible.
5. Students I spoke with at other programs during my interviews were super impressed with MWU-AZ students they had done residency interviews or externships with.

Both are great schools, probably the top clinical programs in the nation. I don't think you can go wrong with either, I recommend that you list the pros and cons of each and go from there like I did.

A few things I like about both schools.

The culture is phenomenal
Top clinical training in the nation
Boards after the 1st year and then you focus on clinical dentistry from there on
Great faculty and staff
Both schools are progressive and changing, they are not mired in tired old traditions

UoP has some distinct advantages though:

San Francisco is a great city to be young (though Phoenix has its charms too)
UoP has one of the most powerful alumni associations in the nation
They have an incredible history and have produced some of the nation's great dentists
Everyone in the field knows UoP's reputation
3 years and then you are DONE!

The downsides to both which I'm sure you know:

Expensive
Low specialization rate
Expensive
Intense 1st year
Expensive

@Cello , thank you for your excellent points.

• Did you ask the UoP students about how stressed they felt by the curriculum? What were their responses?
• Due to the HPSP, cost is irrelevant. The only difference might be a small loan of ~$20-25K to cover what the HPSP stipend won't in living expenses for UoP. As a military dentist, I will destroy that loan within 6 months.
• I save two years by going to UoP. I will a) get my DDS in 3 yrs and b) finish my military payback in 3 yrs (HPSP is a year for a year. I'd owe only 3 yrs of HPSP payback since UoP is a 3 year school. This has been confirmed by my recruiters.)

I'm sure you've picked up my bias for UoP by now 🙂. I just am trying to see if I'm missing anything about MWU-AZ's program.

 

[thegoatest]

The downsides to both which I'm sure you know:

Expensive
Low specialization rate
Expensive
Intense 1st year
Expensive

Does MWU-AZ really have a low specialization rate? If so, why?

 

[Cello]

Why do you say this?



@Cello , thank you for your excellent points.

• Did you ask the UoP students about how stressed they felt by the curriculum? What were their responses?
• Due to the HPSP, cost is irrelevant. The only difference might be a small loan of ~$20-25K to cover what the HPSP stipend won't in living expenses. As a military dentist, I will destroy that loan within 6 months.
• I save two years by going to UoP. I will a) get my DDS in 3 yrs and b) finish my military payback in 3 yrs (HPSP is a year for a year. I'd owe only 3 yrs of HPSP payback since UoP is a 3 year school. This has been confirmed by my recruiters.)

I'm sure you've picked up my bias for UoP by now 🙂. I just am trying to see if I'm missing anything about MWU-AZ's program.

If I was HPSP and could save 2 years I would go to UoP given the choice. The military holds UoP grads in very high regard from what I've heard. Also, your time in the military will solidify your hand skills, so the extra year that I wanted at MWU-AZ is largely irrelevant for you.

 

[HypotheticalSituation]

If I was HPSP and could save 2 years I would go to UoP given the choice.

Coming from a MWU-AZ student like you, this endorsement of UoP says a lot and will be a very important, influential comment in my decision.

Thank you.

 

[Cello]

Does MWU-AZ really have a low specialization rate? If so, why?

The culture at our school is such that most of us don't plan to specialize. Many more of us have families than most other dental schools, and the rest of us are here to get the best clinical experience we can. That's not to say that there aren't people who want to specialize, because there are, but our school doesn't strongly encourage specialization like some programs (Penn) do.

Here are our stats:

*The following information was obtained from an internal survey.

• 4 going into Pediatric Dentistry graduate program
• 2 going into Orthodontics graduate program
• 3 going into Oral Surgery graduate program
• 1 going into Prosthodontics graduate program
• 1 going into Radiology graduate program
• 9 going into General Practice Residency or Advanced Education in General Dentistry program
• 11 entered military service (6 Army, 3 Air Force, 2 Navy)
• 79 entering private practice, either on their own, as an associate, or as a partner

https://www.midwestern.edu/programs_and_admission/az_dental_medicine.html

Going to MWU-AZ or UoP obviously won't stop you from specializing (@armorshell is an OMFS who went to UoP), I think that our schools just attract students who are less inclined to want to specialize.

 

[thegoatest]

The culture at our school is such that most of us don't plan to specialize. Many more of us have families than most other dental schools, and the rest of us are here to get the best clinical experience we can. That's not to say that there aren't people who want to specialize, because there are, but our school doesn't strongly encourage specialization like some programs (Penn) do.

Here are our stats:

*The following information was obtained from an internal survey.

• 4 going into Pediatric Dentistry graduate program
• 2 going into Orthodontics graduate program
• 3 going into Oral Surgery graduate program
• 1 going into Prosthodontics graduate program
• 1 going into Radiology graduate program
• 9 going into General Practice Residency or Advanced Education in General Dentistry program
• 11 entered military service (6 Army, 3 Air Force, 2 Navy)
• 79 entering private practice, either on their own, as an associate, or as a partner

https://www.midwestern.edu/programs_and_admission/az_dental_medicine.html

Going to MWU-AZ obviously won't stop you from specializing, I think that we just attract students who are less inclined to want to specialize.

This is the reason I decided against UoP: it's not a school that is conducive to families. I am on the HPSP scholarship as well, but even with my monthly stipend, there is just no way that my wife and I can cover a monthly rent of $3000 plus living expenses... She would be forced to work and have no kids for three years, or else I would go into debt. I do, however, want to do OMS in the military, and MWU is currently my second choice behind Utah.

 

[Henry Killinger]

The culture at our school is such that most of us don't plan to specialize. Many more of us have families than most other dental schools, and the rest of us are here to get the best clinical experience we can. That's not to say that there aren't people who want to specialize, because there are, but our school doesn't strongly encourage specialization like some programs (Penn) do.

Here are our stats:

*The following information was obtained from an internal survey.

• 4 going into Pediatric Dentistry graduate program
• 2 going into Orthodontics graduate program
• 3 going into Oral Surgery graduate program
• 1 going into Prosthodontics graduate program
• 1 going into Radiology graduate program
• 9 going into General Practice Residency or Advanced Education in General Dentistry program
• 11 entered military service (6 Army, 3 Air Force, 2 Navy)
• 79 entering private practice, either on their own, as an associate, or as a partner

https://www.midwestern.edu/programs_and_admission/az_dental_medicine.html

Going to MWU-AZ or UoP obviously won't stop you from specializing (@armorshell is an OMFS who went to UoP), I think that our schools just attract students who are less inclined to want to specialize.

You guys have a bunch of air force folks which is pretty nifty (If I recall there's only about a dozen AF HPSP scholarships) Also...... Radiology graduate program? I didn't even know something like that existed in dentistry.

 

[HypotheticalSituation]

This is the reason I decided against UoP: it's not a school that is conducive to families. I am on the HPSP scholarship as well, but even with my monthly stipend, there is just no way that my wife and I can cover a monthly rent of $3000 plus living expenses... She would be forced to work and have no kids for three years, or else I would go into debt. I do, however, want to do OMS in the military, and MWU is currently my second choice behind Utah.

I can see where you're coming from. I think this just highlights how different situations can influence one's decision drastically.

For me, I'm single & fine with living in a tiny 300 sq. ft. studio (I found some decent ones renting for ~$2,000/mo near the school), which would eat up the entire HPSP stipend. The remaining living expenses could be covered within $700/mo loans, which is equivalent to $700/mo * 36 mo = $25,200 in loans over 3 years total.

In exchange for $25.2K, I save two years of my life. That's a deal that is hard for me to resist.

 

[fogorvostan]

In exchange for $25.2K, I save two years of my life. That's a deal that is hard for me to resist.

As an MWU-AZ student, I highly change my vote to UoP for that reason. I love my school, but two years of your life for $25.2k isn't even a question.

 

[thegoatest]

I can see where you're coming from. I think this just highlights how different situations can influence one's decision drastically.

For me, I'm single & fine with living in a tiny 300 sq. ft. studio (I found some decent ones renting for ~$2,000/mo near the school), which would eat up the entire HPSP stipend. The remaining living expenses could be covered within $700/mo loans, which is equivalent to $700/mo * 36 mo = $25,200 in loans over 3 years total.

In exchange for $25.2K, I save two years of my life. That's a deal that is hard for me to resist.

Just so you know, the maximum amount of federal aid for each student at UoP is $2448/month, which is $29,376/year. Since HPSP students get a $2200/month stipend ($26,400/year), you would only qualify for $2,976/year in federal loans. If you want any federal loans whatsoever, the school literally will not allow any student to live alone. You are forced to live with roommates/fellow classmates unless you seek out some sort of private loan from a bank or something. So just be aware that you will not be living on your own in San Francisco and expect the school to hand you any federal loans whatsoever...
Also, if you are only expecting $25k in loans, take that number and double it, then add on some interest. There is ALWAYS unexpected costs in life. For example, if your patients don't show up to clinic for a presentation, you fail the clinical requirement. So some students actually pay for their patients to stay in a hotel the night before, buy their food, etc. just to make sure they get the grade they need to pass. Boards and State exams aren't cheap either, especially if you want to practice in another state when you're out of the military. There are typically travel fees and other hidden expenses associated with things like that. I'm sure there are plenty of other things to pay for in school and life as well, so just be aware that debt can never be fully anticipated. It can be a fiery furnace if not tamed well. That being said, if you are single, it is way more doable than if you have a family to support during school.

 

[periopocket]

Save 2 years of your life: schooling/military pay back, while going to an awesome and long established school was my reasoning, but I think cellos advice should be highly admired and considered since he was accepted to both.

 

[Cello]

Save 2 years of your life: schooling/military pay back, while going to an awesome and long established school was my reasoning, but I think cellos advice should be highly admired and considered since he was accepted to both.

But we agree! 🙂

 

[BeaverLover]

If you know you'll be doing the minimum time on HPSP, then go UoP.

 

[joker937]

Thank you for responding!

@BeaverLover , do you think the UoP curriculum is too stressful?
@joker937 @periopocket why do you guys prefer UoP?

If I were accepted into both as my only options, I would choose UOP. This cycle, I've interviewed at both schools. I liked MW-AZ because of how great their clinical program is, how inexpensive life in Glendale can be, how you get 4 years to complete it all and build hand skills, etc. But I felt that they tried to sell their program too hard. It's more or less as pricy as UOP, so that's not a factor. Finally, and most importantly, it's brand new, which might tie in with how they tried to sell their program so hard. I've been told by several dentists to stay away from the newer schools. Most dentists have not even heard of MW-AZ.

That's not to say you wouldn't be getting a good education at MW-AZ. It's highly possible it's a great program! I'm just very cautious, especially since we are talking about a huge investment and your dental skills. I would stick with a school that has been around much longer, is established, everyone knows, etc.

 

[Incis0r]

The military holds UoP grads in very high regard from what I've heard.

What have you heard about this? Could you please elaborate??