Roseman (OOS) vs MWU AZ (OOS)

[AnxiousMia]

School 1: Roseman
Pros:

• 3 years
• cheaper: $135,500 x 3 = $406,500 total - (110,500 tuition/fees + 25000 living costs)
  • EDIT: Went back to double-check and turns out that the fees listed on the website were part of the tuition, not living expenses... 🙄
• P/F

Cons:

• Essentially no breaks since it's 3 years and I'm afraid of burnout
• I'm afraid with 3 years that I'll have to do a GPR even if I don't want to specialize so that negates the perk of the 3-year program
• I believe their 3 year transition is fairly new so also not sure how that will affect graduates.

School 2: MWU AZ
Pros:

• Has a stellar reputation for its clinical program.
• I know some students there and they love it.
• I've been told students get headhunted for jobs after graduation.
• The environment is very cooperative and supportive

Cons:

• More expensive: ~ $130,000 x 4 = $520,000 tuition and living expenses ($105,000 tuition & 25,000 living costs)
• I'm from the Midwest and AZ is hot as hell 😅

On another note, I'm also waitlisted for an instate school but their waitlist doesn't move till the end of April - June so there's hope but not guarantees obviously. I'm more familiar with MWU than Roseman so if anyone knows more about either program or has any advice I'd appreciate it!

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[macsak]

School 1: Roseman
Pros:

• 3 years
• cheaper: $110,500 x 3 = $331,500 total (if I'm reading their website correctly at least) - (90,500 tuition & 20000 living costs)
• P/F

Cons:

• Essentially no breaks since it's 3 years and I'm afraid of burnout
• I'm afraid with 3 years that I'll have to do a GPR even if I don't want to specialize so that negates the perk of the 3-year program
• I believe their 3 year transition is fairly new so also not sure how that will affect graduates.

School 2: MWU AZ
Pros:

• Has a stellar reputation for its clinical program.
• I know some students there and they love it.
• I've been told students get headhunted for jobs after graduation.
• The environment is very cooperative and supportive

Cons:

• More expensive: ~ $130,000 x 4 = $520,000 tuition and living expenses ($105,000 tuition & 25,000 living costs)
• I'm from the Midwest and AZ is hot as hell 😅

On another note, I'm also waitlisted for an instate school but their waitlist doesn't move till the end of April - June so there's hope but not guarantees obviously. I'm more familiar with MWU than Roseman so if anyone knows more about either program or has any advice I'd appreciate it!

cheaper

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Arizona is hot. Do they do night clinics in the summer when it's a cool 80 degrees? (Kidding.) As long as the AC doesn't break down in the clinic...

 

[AnxiousMia]

Arizona is hot. Do they do night clinics in the summer when it's a cool 80 degrees? (Kidding.) As long as the AC doesn't break down in the clinic...

My interview was in Dec and it was 60 degrees (aka perfect weather compared to the 30 degrees I left behind 😂), yet the faculty were wearing coats.

 

[AnxiousMia]

cheaper

I understand that I should work on minimizing loans as much as possible however, I was looking for insight into roseman, especially the 3 year transition. If I’m going to a school for 3 years with an expectation that I need to do residency after to makeup the clinical experience that I missed then I’m not really saving money (currently not interested in specializing so not planning on residency).

As I mentioned, I’m more familiar with MWU and I know that despite the cost, most people believe that you earn an education worth the price tag.

 

[Smile2thetop]

@OncePreDent

 

[macsak]

I understand that I should work on minimizing loans as much as possible however, I was looking for insight into roseman, especially the 3 year transition. If I’m going to a school for 3 years with an expectation that I need to do residency after to makeup the clinical experience that I missed then I’m not really saving money (currently not interested in specializing so not planning on residency).

As I mentioned, I’m more familiar with MWU and I know that despite the cost, most people believe that you earn an education worth the price tag.

even if you do a residency, you get a stipend, and sometimes if you choose the right program, you get loan forgiveness

please show me where "most people believe you earn an education worth the price tag"...

 

[AnxiousMia]

even if you do a residency, you get a stipend, and sometimes if you choose the right program, you get loan forgiveness

please show me where "most people believe you earn an education worth the price tag"...

Sp Roseman graduates would have to do a GPR?
I’m simply stating what I’ve heard from current students and graduates of MWU. They rarely do GPRs if ever because their clinical experience prepares them that well.

 

[macsak]

Sp Roseman graduates would have to do a GPR?
I’m simply stating what I’ve heard from current students and graduates of MWU. They rarely do GPRs if ever because their clinical experience prepares them that well.

please show me where i said roseman graduates would have to do a GPR...

 

[Ryxndek]

Sp Roseman graduates would have to do a GPR?
I’m simply stating what I’ve heard from current students and graduates of MWU. They rarely do GPRs if ever because their clinical experience prepares them that well.

It’s not a requirement to do a GPR. The only state I know that requires it to practice is NY.

Otherwise any grad can go and get a job somewhere if you aren’t picky. Roseman is no exception.

 

[AnxiousMia]

please show me where i said roseman graduates would have to do a GPR...

I appreciate your help but I'm asking clarification questions to understand better. I understand that cost is important but I like to know as much as I can before making a decision that will impact the rest of my life.

 

[AnxiousMia]

It’s not a requirement to do a GPR. The only state I know that requires it to practice is NY.

Otherwise any grad can go and get a job somewhere if you aren’t picky. Roseman is no exception.

I get that it might not be a requirement but I was wondering if it would be an expectation. Some dentists I've worked with made it seem that a 3-year program would need to be followed by residency even for general dentistry to help develop necessary clinical skills.

 

[Ryxndek]

I get that it might not be a requirement but I was wondering if it would be an expectation. Some dentists I've worked with made it seem that a 3-year program would need to be followed by residency even for general dentistry to help develop necessary clinical skills.

it’s up to the practice owner. And like I said, if you’re picky, then maybe you’ll need a GPR to get into the PP instead of DSO. A DSO will not care if you had a GPR or not. They’ll take you. Otherwise more experience might be necessary to get into a PP unless you have connections. This is anywhere no matter where you go.

It’s not an expectation. UoP grads seem clinically prepared and do just fine. Graduating with way less debt is a bigger deciding factor than whether you’re clinically capable or not. You’ll learn more in 2-4 weeks of practice than in entire 4 years of dental school.

 

[AnxiousMia]

it’s up to the practice owner. And like I said, if you’re picky, then maybe you’ll need a GPR to get into the PP instead of DSO. A DSO will not care if you had a GPR or not. They’ll take you. Otherwise more experience might be necessary to get into a PP unless you have connections. This is anywhere no matter where you go.

It’s not an expectation. UoP grads seem clinically prepared and do just fine. Graduating with way less debt is a bigger deciding factor than whether you’re clinically capable or not. You’ll learn more in 2-4 weeks of practice than in entire 4 years of dental school.

Thank you so much for the info.
I’m still hoping to stay in state but obviously need to be realistic with my choices and I wasn’t very familiar with GPRs and possible downsides to 3 vs 4 year programs in terms of work.

 

[OncePreDent]

I get that it might not be a requirement but I was wondering if it would be an expectation. Some dentists I've worked with made it seem that a 3-year program would need to be followed by residency even for general dentistry to help develop necessary clinical skills.

Yeah, I would choose Roseman over Arizona. $200k is an insane amount to pay, and @Ryxndek is correct; you do not need a GPR if you don't want to. I am currently in the 3-year cohort at Roseman, and most students want to specialize or practice right out of school. I believe there are a few people who want to do a GPR in my class when they graduate. I don't feel it is necessary though, you will get plenty of clinical experience at Roseman. If you are in the clinic for a full day you will typically see 4 patients a day.

At Roseman, you will start doing procedures (restorations) in the clinic during your 1st semester as a D1. Everyone started doing injections on patients as well. Not sure about Midwestern. Roseman is also a very supportive environment from both the faculty and upperclassmates.

Also, isn't there a scholarship for people from Arizona who want to practice in Arizona that pays $40k per year of dental school? We have a few people at Roseman taking advantage of it which saves about $120k in tuition cost in total. It is if you are willing/going to practice in Arizona for a 5 years commitment.

You should also account for the additional year of income from Roseman as well (150kish?).

So realistically you would be looking at a $350k ($200kish total cost + $150k income) difference in price between Roseman and Midwestern.

Cons:

• Essentially no breaks since it's 3 years and I'm afraid of burnout

To address the burnout:
I believe you are much more likely to burn out at a different school. As you know, Roseman is P/F and block schedule. The block schedule is one of the most heavenly part of Roseman's curriculum combined with P/F. You focus on one block of material for 2-3 weeks at a time. Yes, you will get tired of looking at the same material for the 2 weeks, but once you take the assessment, you have nothing to study, work on, or do that weekend. It is a great time to relax and not think about school (go skiing, hiking, paddleboarding, etc.).

Unlike traditional schools, once you finish a test, you have start studying for the next immediately and have some impressive time management while taking 10 classes at a time. Block schedule is much less stressful.

Plus, one less year of dental school would be amazing!

That big of a cost difference should practically be an automatic decision for Roseman.

 

[Ryxndek]

Unlike traditional schools, once you finish a test, you have start studying for the next immediately and have some impressive time management while taking 10 classes at a time. Block schedule is much less stressful.

Me sitting here taking 10 classes at once constantly studying every day lmao. 🧍🏻‍♂️

OP I’d definitely go to Roseman. 3 years and you’re done and P/F curriculum is more than enough to make the decision.

 

[AnxiousMia]

Yeah, I would choose Roseman over Arizona. $200k is an insane amount to pay, and @Ryxndek is correct; you do not need a GPR if you don't want to. I am currently in the 3-year cohort at Roseman, and most students want to specialize or practice right out of school. I believe there are a few people who want to do a GPR in my class when they graduate. I don't feel it is necessary though, you will get plenty of clinical experience at Roseman. If you are in the clinic for a full day you will typically see 4 patients a day.

At Roseman, you will start doing procedures (restorations) in the clinic during your 1st semester as a D1. Everyone started doing injections on patients as well. Not sure about Midwestern. Roseman is also a very supportive environment from both the faculty and upperclassmates.

Also, isn't there a scholarship for people from Arizona who want to practice in Arizona that pays $40k per year of dental school? We have a few people at Roseman taking advantage of it which saves about $120k in tuition cost in total. It is if you are willing/going to practice in Arizona for a 5 years commitment.

You should also account for the additional year of income from Roseman as well (150kish?).

So realistically you would be looking at a $350k ($200kish total cost + $150k income) difference in price between Roseman and Midwestern.

To address the burnout:
I believe you are much more likely to burn out at a different school. As you know, Roseman is P/F and block schedule. The block schedule is one of the most heavenly part of Roseman's curriculum combined with P/F. You focus on one block of material for 2-3 weeks at a time. Yes, you will get tired of looking at the same material for the 2 weeks, but once you take the assessment, you have nothing to study, work on, or do that weekend. It is a great time to relax and not think about school (go skiing, hiking, paddleboarding, etc.).

Unlike traditional schools, once you finish a test, you have start studying for the next immediately and have some impressive time management while taking 10 classes at a time. Block schedule is much less stressful.

Plus, one less year of dental school would be amazing!

That big of a cost difference should practically be an automatic decision for Roseman.

Thank you so much for your perspective. It’s really helpful. I’m OOS for both so not sure I can qualify for that scholarship.

 

[OncePreDent]

Thank you so much for your perspective. It’s really helpful. I’m OOS for both so not sure I can qualify for that scholarship.

Oh sorry, I didn't see that part. Yeah you most likely wouldn't so forget about that part

 

[rafacena]

even if you do a residency, you get a stipend, and sometimes if you choose the right program, you get loan forgiveness

please show me where "most people believe you earn an education worth the price tag"...

Do you know where we can search for GPR programs that have loan forgiveness? How does the loan forgiveness work vs loan repayment?