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Updated: Physician Compensation

Discussion in 'PM&R' started by Future GI Guy, Dec 9, 2001.

  1. Future GI Guy

    Future GI Guy Hoo Hoo.... 7+ Year Member

    282
    3
    Jul 25, 2001
    Hey...I got this information from Cejka's website.

    <a href="http://www.cejka.com" target="_blank">http://www.cejka.com</a>

    Click under compensation data. This was compiled by the American Medical Group Association and lists median compensation by Specialty and area of the country. I hope it posts well. (The template is the at the top)

    ------
    Specialty
    All Physicians
    Starting
    Eastern
    Western
    Southern
    Northern

    Allergy and Immunology
    $186,072
    $125,000
    $153,531
    $172,720
    $195,733
    $187,000

    Anesthesiology
    $255,651
    $177,600
    $216,270
    $254,505
    $257,200
    $270,000

    Cardiac & Thoracic Surgery
    $389,926
    $248,875
    $399,250
    $459,400
    $403,520
    $369,089

    Cardiology
    $271,001
    $180,000
    $213,095
    $283,033
    $308,885
    $271,001

    Colon & Rectal Surgery
    $293,667
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $330,000

    Critical Care Medicine
    $207,250
    ****
    $187,386
    ****
    $171,488
    $207,250

    Dermatology
    $198,196
    $160,000
    $178,333
    $205,224
    $228,253
    $202,704

    Diagnostic Radiology - Interventional
    $306,000
    $200,003
    $224,063
    $311,218
    $318,226
    $306,000

    Diagnostic Radiology - Non-Interventional
    $262,579
    $200,000
    $236,095
    $259,493
    $274,000
    $268,417

    Emergency Care
    $190,179
    $150,000
    $176,854
    $167,960
    $196,127
    $195,515

    Endocrinology
    $157,767
    $122,910
    $130,972
    $150,713
    $166,019
    $166,792

    Family Medicine
    $144,290
    $120,000
    $136,622
    $146,367
    $152,563
    $141,037

    Family Medicine - with Obstetrics
    $150,673
    $122,500
    $161,102
    $164,372
    ****
    $149,652

    Gastroenterology
    $240,000
    $159,500
    $193,336
    $242,000
    $253,159
    $240,000

    General Surgery
    $244,794
    $170,000
    $210,932
    $232,112
    $247,242
    $261,388

    Geriatrics
    $146,775
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $146,775

    Gynecological Oncology
    $297,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $325,887

    Gynecology
    $201,501
    ****
    $193,471
    ****
    ****
    $201,501

    Gynecology & Obstetrics
    $228,663
    $171,000
    $206,667
    $210,634
    $248,402
    $235,797

    Hematology & Medical Oncology
    $196,500
    $150,000
    $182,033
    $192,400
    $228,340
    $196,000

    Hospitalist
    $140,000
    $130,500
    $136,440
    $132,958
    $160,525
    $143,737

    Hypertension & Nephrology
    $193,793
    $145,550
    $160,008
    $184,434
    $248,641
    $192,250

    Infectious Disease
    $161,225
    ****
    $140,889
    $146,685
    $173,187
    $166,162

    Intensivist

    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Internal Medicine
    $144,264
    $120,000
    $141,200
    $140,831
    $153,600
    $144,000

    Neonatology
    $206,003
    ****
    $174,750
    ****
    $208,499
    $211,793

    Neurological Surgery
    $360,000
    $220,000
    $294,230
    ****
    $387,566
    $381,000

    Neurology
    $178,850
    $140,000
    $155,996
    $161,729
    $174,701
    $187,000

    Nuclear Medicine (M.D. only)
    $222,040
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $229,460

    Obstetrics
    $206,987
    ****
    ****
    $196,796
    ****
    $220,262

    Occupational/Environmental Medicine
    $165,467
    $124,100
    ****
    $154,280
    $157,211
    $176,483

    Ophthalmology
    $239,379
    $147,500
    $210,000
    $220,000
    $252,443
    $250,824

    Oral Surgery
    $205,759
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $231,001

    Orthopedic Surgery
    $308,389
    $205,000
    $249,565
    $283,774
    $301,249
    $341,684

    Orthopedic-Medical
    $250,825
    ****
    $268,946
    ****
    $239,244
    $207,449

    Orthopedic Surgery - Joint Replacement
    $393,145
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Orthopedic Surgery - Hand
    $314,451
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $325,169

    Orthopedic Surgery - Pediatrics
    $305,179
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Orthopedic Surgery - Spine
    $400,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Otolaryngology
    $253,746
    $170,000
    $225,044
    $236,921
    $266,164
    $270,470

    Pathology (M.D. only)
    $211,000
    $153,185
    $192,477
    $223,700
    $224,620
    $228,462

    Pediatric Allergy
    $133,600
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Pediatric Cardiology
    $178,500
    ****
    *****
    ****
    ****
    $180,251

    Pediatric Endocrinology
    $127,759
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $144,160
    ****

    Pediatric Gastroenterology
    $162,553
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $158,392
    $181,849

    Pediatric Hematology/Oncology
    $170,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $162,275
    $178,916

    Pediatric Intensive Care
    $167,500
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $176,341

    Pediatric Nephrology
    $170,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Pediatric Neurology
    $160,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $141,991
    $175,276

    Pediatric Pulmonary Disease
    $141,249
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $149,976
    ****

    Pediatric Surgery
    $261,586
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $261,586
    ****

    Pediatrics & Adolescent
    $143,468
    $116,500
    $139,047
    $148,410
    $143,651
    $144,304

    Pediatric Infectious Disease
    $128,502
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Perinatology
    $321,042
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $321,042

    Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
    $172,089
    $125,000
    ****
    $149,977
    $172,430
    $178,000

    Plastic & Reconstruction
    $277,359
    $176,000
    $237,488
    $306,625
    $274,762
    $304,856

    Psychiatry
    $149,581
    $120,000
    $144,606
    $145,741
    $155,840
    $151,855

    Psychiatry - Child
    $150,003
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $141,357

    Pulmonary Disease
    $199,909
    $140,300
    $160,700
    $200,055
    $202,372
    $205,873

    Radiation Therapy (M.D. only)
    $280,450
    ****
    $242,900
    ****
    $258,750
    $286,000

    Reproductive Endocrinology
    $231,579
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Rheumatologic Disease
    $160,876
    $124,300
    $156,034
    $149,671
    $169,399
    $163,687

    Sports Medicine
    $152,350
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Surgical Pathology (M.D. only)
    $224,967
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Surgical Sports Medicine
    $300,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $300,000

    Transplant Surgery - Cardiac
    $334,250
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Transplant Surgery - Kidney
    $227,115
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    $238,000

    Transplant Surgery - Liver
    $270,000
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Trauma Surgery
    $276,800
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****
    ****

    Urgent Care
    $147,248
    $120,000
    $145,847
    $139,870
    $158,591
    $153,189

    Urology
    $274,063
    $170,000
    $233,209
    $231,107
    $269,690
    $299,242

    Vascular Surgery
    $297,317
    $195,500
    $266,857
    ****
    $336,200
    $300,997

    ****Data is not reported for specialties with less than 10 responses
     
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  3. droliver

    droliver Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    1,548
    57
    May 1, 2001
    Interesting to have some hard #'s to point to....

    What I noticed from this

    1)Derm seems to be doing "worse" off than I always imagined

    2)several fields that a few prolific posters go on about seem to be making much less than the $$$ casually mentioned ( PM&R, Path,& anesthesia)

    3) ER, Gen. Surg, Colo-rectal surgery, radiology(diagnostic) and Family Practice come off better
    than what most people percieve

    4) Cardiothoracic has really taken a big hit over the last few year!
     
  4. Droliver - Unless I missed it, there was no category for Interventional Pain Management, which was the specialty within PM&R that I said made the most money. Also, <a href="http://www.med.virginia.edu/medicine/clinical/phys-med-rehab/pmrspine.html" target="_blank">Orthopedic - Medical ($250,825) means Physiatrists</a> because Orthopedic Surgeons would obviously fall under Orthopedic Surgery. Many Physiatrists are part of an Orthopedic group/department which includes both Orthopedic Surgeons and Physiatrists. The salary listed for PM&R is for those who do general inpatient rehabilitation. Physiatrists that practice specifically in Orthopedics or Interventional Pain Management would have higher salaries.

    I agree, Derm does seem to be doing much worse than I would've imaged as well. I've always wondered what percentage of people do Derm because it is considered a prestigious residency rather than for the compensation or lifesyle. I'm sure that the percentage is small, but I imagine that this plays a greater factor in Derm than it does in other specialties.

    Future GI Guy - Thanks for the link, it was quite informative. :)
     
  5. Freeeedom!

    Freeeedom! Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    698
    2
    Feb 21, 2001
    I am a ninja
    Though numbers are nice for averages, but there is soooo much variability! I don't even pay attention to those numbers anymore, primarily because it can be manipulated to fit anyones template!
     
  6. drusso

    drusso Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    6,195
    1,589
    Nov 21, 1998
    Over the rainbow
    Since when is $170K any thing to be ashamed of? For the light call and great lifestyle of PM&R, I'd take $170K any day of the week. I agree with Stink, most physiatrists doing outpatient musculoskeletal/pain who do procedures do better than $170K.
     
  7. Voxel

    Voxel Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    658
    2
    Nov 5, 2001
    There will always be niche fields within specialties that make more money and those are usually 1) procedure-based and/or 2) out of pocket care. That is why the compensation for all opthomologists is not the same. People doing laser vision correction are making much more than people doing cataract surgery. People in derm doing facial plastic surgery and all sorts of out of pocket procedures for youthful skin are doing better than the academic derm guy. The list goes on and on. If you make a reputation for yourself, you probably can get away with charging more than the average MD/DO in your field.
     
  8. Future GI Guy

    Future GI Guy Hoo Hoo.... 7+ Year Member

    282
    3
    Jul 25, 2001
    Something I noticed, when I first posted this list, was how much less all of the Pediatric Subspecialties made, when compared to Neonatology. Interesting, eh?
     
  9. Chadleez1

    Chadleez1 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    134
    0
    Sep 24, 2001
    Missouri
    It's always amazed me.....people in a lot of fields out there would kill to make even 150,000 a year....and so many docs think that money is terrible!
     
  10. Voxel

    Voxel Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    658
    2
    Nov 5, 2001
    It may be that physicians have to go through one of the longest and most rigerous (and least paying) training periods out there. Some other fields, ie LAW and MBA work can make as much if not more $ in less time, under less stress, without the fear of lawsuits (that have the potential to take away what you've earned all these years). That and the fact that physicians face diminishing autonomy/reimbursement is troubling. That is why many people in medicine bicker over compensation (especially when compared to other fields). However what most physicians tend to ignore is that P=MD=decent paying job (not necessarily top location). You've have to be at one of the top law schools or if you can't get into a top notch law school, you almost certainly have to be at the top of your law school to make as much or more than physicians. You want to know what a lawyer from the bottom of PODUNK U is making ~$50K if they are lucky. An MD/DO from the bottom of any class/residency in the worst case will be making atleast 90-100K after establishing themselves. Granted that MDs/DOs may have more loans to pay back, but people going to law school have to take out loans too.
     
  11.  
  12. Mango

    Mango Very Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    813
    0
    Apr 30, 2000
    When you consider that derms make 200K for working cushy 40/50 hour weeks with little or no call, it doesn't sound like a bad deal at all. Consider Ob/Gyn's who average 230K and spend their lives on call and at work (course I still like Ob/Gyn).

    Question - what is a Perinatologist? And why do they make so much?
     
  13. Chadleez1

    Chadleez1 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    134
    0
    Sep 24, 2001
    Missouri
    Perinatologist is, I believe, a VERY high risk birth doctor. I'm thinking it is the specialty that deals with the highest risk babies, and maybe unusual births like 4 or 5 or more babies, siamese twins....that sort of think.
     
  14. djmd

    djmd an Antediluvian 7+ Year Member

    1,515
    1
    Oct 2, 2001
    I just had this discussion with my friend.

    Yes MDs work hard have long training and desirve conpensation.

    That being said, we generally get it.
    We won't be poor, we have good pay and hopefully you are doing something you love.

    Cause if that last one isn't true I think no ammount of money is going to make the sacrafices seem worthwhile...
     
  15. SimulD

    SimulD Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    1,629
    3
    Apr 22, 2001
    Alexandria, VA
    "the sacrifices seems worthwhile..."


    what a great guy I am to do what I love and only get paid $120,000 (if I'm not too lucky) and $200,000 (if i'm pretty luck). Heck, society owes me a debt for taking such a pittance ....

    Simul
    (as of yesterday, 1/8 of a doctor!!! gross, histo, and embryo can all bite me!)
     
  16. GreatPumpkin

    GreatPumpkin Mystical Treatbringer 10+ Year Member

    893
    1
    Mar 23, 2001
    Indiana
    Some of these stats on income are worthless. There is such a large variation. If you compare academic vs. solo vs. small group vs. large group vs. rural vs. city etc......

    If you want cushy and a ton of money consider Derm path. Private practice over 400 grand. I don't even know what i would do with that much money.
     
  17. Voxel

    Voxel Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    658
    2
    Nov 5, 2001
    GP, I'm sure you could think of something. ;)
     
  18.  
  19. GreatPumpkin

    GreatPumpkin Mystical Treatbringer 10+ Year Member

    893
    1
    Mar 23, 2001
    Indiana
    Maybe, but I already have my dream Jeep. A bigger lift and tires are relatively cheap. And, fishing really doesn't cost that much money. I guess my redneck ways are not really expensive.

    I guess I will have the biggest screen tv made. Hee hee.
     
  20. proffit

    proffit ovary mcnugget 10+ Year Member

    101
    0
    Jul 23, 2001
    illadelph
    It always seemed to me that these stats are highly flawed. What % of docs send in survey responses, and of these, how many are accurately reporting their incomes? People in relatively highly paid fields tend to under-report their incomes, especially private practice specialists vs. salaried docs like hospitalists an ER. What are your opinions about this?

    B
     
  21. Freeeedom!

    Freeeedom! Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    698
    2
    Feb 21, 2001
    I am a ninja
    I think you are absolutely right. Surveyed research has obvious flaws...especially with reportable income!
     
  22. LR6SO4

    LR6SO4 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    213
    0
    Jun 21, 2001
    MI
    Hey Great Pumpkin,
    What is derm path? Is that a fellowship off of path or derm? I'm looking into path right now, but I want to be in a rural area myself so I am thinking just a straight AP/CP would be best for me. I'm really clueless though.

    As for what you could do with more money and a Jeep...Buy a Ford! Just kiddin', I'll let my redneck side show here for a minute, but when I was working (pre-medscool, post BS) I thought the best way to spend money was by having 2 trucks: A 78 F-150 for muddin', huntin', fishin', and a 88 Bronco-fullsize for light off road and in town use. The 78 had 33" Swampers, a homemade 3" lift, fenders cut out by hand for more clearance, Cheap Dana lockers front and rear, and a 351 with a 4bbl. Duals straight off the motor. Talk about FUN!! But expensive. Sold em both (They don't call them Found On Road Dead for nothing) and have a bone stock Cherokee with the 4.0L. The thing I miss most are the cruises in the Bronco with the top off, good way to pick up redneck chicks.
     
  23. djmd

    djmd an Antediluvian 7+ Year Member

    1,515
    1
    Oct 2, 2001
    Derm Path can be either after path or Derm...

    However, Derm than path is 4 years.
    (Derm 3 + 1y fellowship in path)
    Path then derm is 5-7 years
    (Path full AP/CP 4 then either
    1 year derm path fellowship
    (but you can't see patients, so you make less)
    or
    3 year Derm Residency

    If you want to be rural, then path plus derm path fellowship is not unheard of...
    You are pathologist who can handle skin biposy reads (or handle the hard ones, most paths can sign out your average skins)
     
  24. Jamier2

    Jamier2 SDN Hillbilly Moderator Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,247
    0
    Mar 22, 2001
    Kentucky
     

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