Why is compensation so low at times?

[Iamnew2]

Sometimes I find it baffling that compensation is so low.
Recently I was offered to do medical review. They wanted me to review close to 80pages and write a report - all for a whopping $225. I said no thanks. Why would a company think that $225 is appropriate compensation for such a tremendous amount of work for a physician?

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[Ogliodendrocyte]

Probably because they've had physicians agree to it near such low prices. There's a lot of financial illiteracy among physicians. Residents within my own class believe that the vast majority of PM&R docs out of residency should be making below 200k nationally

 

[Iamnew2]

Probably because they've had physicians agree to it near such low prices. There's a lot of financial illiteracy among physicians. Residents within my own class believe that the vast majority of PM&R docs out of residency should be making below 200k nationally

That is something that should be paying in the $2000 plus range. It's shocking that they think someone would work for that measly sum. Something like that would take hours.

 

[Ogliodendrocyte]

That is something that should be paying in the $2000 plus range. It's shocking that they think someone would work for that measly sum. Something like that would take hours.

Absolutely. Don't disagree. But I don't think they'd offer it if they hadnt had someone do it for that in the past unless this is the companies very first time and have no idea what they're doing financially but I think they're more likely to try to profit almost criminally. Hopefully no one takes it until they adjust to actual market rates

 

[Dave1980]

Sometimes I find it baffling that compensation is so low.
Recently I was offered to do medical review. They wanted me to review close to 80pages and write a report - all for a whopping $225. I said no thanks. Why would a company think that $225 is appropriate compensation for such a tremendous amount of work for a physician?

Depends on how long that is going to take you to review. Generally I would recommend $250+ per hour of your time

 

[Iamnew2]

Depends on how long that is going to take you to review. Generally I would recommend $250+ per hour of your time

Right! That's why asking a physician to review a document for a TOTAL of $225 for 80 plus pages plus writing a report that might take a few hours is ridiculous.

 

[Dave1980]

Right! That's why asking a physician to review a document for a TOTAL of $225 for 80 plus pages plus writing a report that might take a few hours is ridiculous.

Agree, ask to be paid by the hour and see what they say. Sometimes the stack of 80 pages has like 78 pages of essentially worthless info which you can review and disregard in like 10 minutes.

 

[sloh]

Probably because they've had physicians agree to it near such low prices. There's a lot of financial illiteracy among physicians. Residents within my own class believe that the vast majority of PM&R docs out of residency should be making below 200k nationally

I came out with the same (low) expectations and took an employed position for around 220-230 k/yr. It wasn't until I left to be an independent contractor and got familiar with billing and collections that I realized how much money I was leaving on the table. If you are a savvy PM&R doc, 400-500k/yr should well within your reach.

 

[PMR2008]

Agree with residents and plenty of attendings (specially academic and VA) not having financial illiteracy. Most docs have no idea how much they are billing out and what the collections are. Most have no idea how to control overhead.
I am happy to share my fee schedule. I charge per hour for chart review and it is upwards of $450. I don't care if it is 50 or 5000 pages. If I am provided the medical records I am responsible to review everything. You can be asked about anything if you end up being deposed.
I have charged the same rate since I completed residency in 2012. 5-10% of my practice is med legal and not a single attorney has ever complained about my rates. If anything I can probably charge more.

 

[Iamnew2]

I came out with the same (low) expectations and took an employed position for around 220-230 k/yr. It wasn't until I left to be an independent contractor and got familiar with billing and collections that I realized how much money I was leaving on the table. If you are a savvy PM&R doc, 400-500k/yr should well within your reach.

Agree with residents and plenty of attendings (specially academic and VA) not having financial illiteracy. Most docs have no idea how much they are billing out and what the collections are. Most have no idea how to control overhead.
I am happy to share my fee schedule. I charge per hour for chart review and it is upwards of $450. I don't care if it is 50 or 5000 pages. If I am provided the medical records I am responsible to review everything. You can be asked about anything if you end up being deposed.
I have charged the same rate since I completed residency in 2012. 5-10% of my practice is med legal and not a single attorney has ever complained about my rates. If anything I can probably charge more.

My employer (even though I'm IC) wants me to supervise midlevel for free. I'm also supposed to take call when they tell me - even though I said I am not ok with taking call. Ridiculous. I also apparently can't quit, lol. They can't tell me what my collections are. I even got a letter from an attorney saying I can't quit. Lol. WTH!!!!

 

[PMR2008]

that is a horrible position to be in. I am sure you did but always review your contract and if possible discuss with attorney before signing anything.

 

[j4pac]

My employer (even though I'm IC) wants me to supervise midlevel for free. I'm also supposed to take call when they tell me - even though I said I am not ok with taking call. Ridiculous. I also apparently can't quit, lol. They can't tell me what my collections are. I even got a letter from an attorney saying I can't quit. Lol. WTH!!!!

Are you an indentured servant? Because not being able to quit sorta seems like it. I’d lawyer up.

 

[robellis]

My employer (even though I'm IC) wants me to supervise midlevel for free. I'm also supposed to take call when they tell me - even though I said I am not ok with taking call. Ridiculous. I also apparently can't quit, lol. They can't tell me what my collections are. I even got a letter from an attorney saying I can't quit. Lol. WTH!!!!

What do you mean you can’t quit? Just stop showing up to work it’s not that conplicated

 

[Bostonspine]

What do you mean you can’t quit? Just stop showing up to work it’s not that conplicated

I think you should review you contract with a lawyer and understand the consequences of making any decision. What’s keeping you there rail coverage, bonus payback penalty, non compete... you don’t sound happy but there is always a choice

 

[nynydoc]

I was offered 90k for a job right out of residency in nyc.

My PD told me that taking a 90k job as a new grad to "shadow an experienced doc" was acceptable and realistic goals.

Academics feed into these "expectations"

I looked at him in disbelief.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

I was offered 90k for a job right out of residency in nyc.

My PD told me that taking a 90k job as a new grad to "shadow an experienced doc" was acceptable and realistic goals.

Academics feed into these "expectations"

I looked at him in disbelief.

How is that even possible? Is s/he on crack?

 

[sloh]

I was offered 90k for a job right out of residency in nyc.

My PD told me that taking a 90k job as a new grad to "shadow an experienced doc" was acceptable and realistic goals.

Academics feed into these "expectations"

I looked at him in disbelief.

Did you forget a "1" in front of that 90k? Even with a "1," it's still a terrible offer!

 

[Iamnew2]

How is that even possible? Is s/he on crack?

Insanity. You had 3 years to learn from other docs in residency. You don't need to "shadow an experienced doc" after you graduate. wow. just wow.

 

[PMR2008]

I have seen offers of $125k here in Chicago. I know plenty of NPs making more than that. Even though I appreciate the academic training I received and all that they do for the patients but I will never work in academia.

 

[PMR2008]

Academic PM&R departments are almost always hemorrhaging money and they think that paying less money to the attendings is a solution. No one wants to blame the 1:10 physician to admin ratio.

The Great Healthcare Bloat: 10 Administrators for Every 1 U.S. Doctor

A Harvard Business Review analysis shows the healthcare workforce has grown by 75 percent since 1990, but 95 percent of new hires aren’t doctors.

www.healthline.com

 

[sloh]

Academic PM&R departments are almost always hemorrhaging money and they think that paying less money to the attendings is a solution. No one wants to blame the 1:10 physician to admin ratio.

The Great Healthcare Bloat: 10 Administrators for Every 1 U.S. Doctor

A Harvard Business Review analysis shows the healthcare workforce has grown by 75 percent since 1990, but 95 percent of new hires aren’t doctors.

www.healthline.com

Is that unique to PM&R? What other academic departments hemorrhage money?

 

[PMR2008]

Is that unique to PM&R? What other academic departments hemorrhage money?

Palliative and psych on top of my head. Anything surgical and cancer/cardiac related has good margins.

1. Cardiovascular surgery

• Average revenue: $3.7 million
• Average salary: $425,000

2. Cardiology (invasive)

• Average revenue: $3.48 million
• Average salary: $590,000

3. Neurosurgery

• Average revenue: $3.44 million
• Average salary: $687,000

4. Orthopedic surgery

• Average revenue: $3.29 million
• Average salary: $533,000

5. Gastroenterology

• Average revenue: $2.97 million
• Average salary: $487,000

6. Hematology/Oncology

• Average revenue: $2.86 million
• Average salary: $425,000

7. General surgery

• Average revenue: $2.71 million
• Average salary: $350,000

8. Internal medicine

• Average revenue: $2.68 million
• Average salary: $261,000

9. Pulmonology

• Average revenue: $2.36 million
• Average salary: $418,000

10. Cardiology (noninvasive)

• Average revenue: $2.31 million
• Average salary: $427,000

These 10 physician specialties generate the most revenue for hospitals

The amount of revenue physicians generate for hospitals is typically considerably more than their annual salaries, according to a recent survey by physician staffing firm Merritt Hawkins.

www.beckershospitalreview.com