UPenn Post Bacc Program

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Can someone who got in to the Specialized Studies program tell me about how competitive it is? I am planning on applying for this Fall.

I have a 2.89 GPA, but lots of research, shadowing, and volunteering. I wasn't sure whether I should take the GRE either. I got a 2010 on my SAT and am unsure as to how important it is to have a good test score.

Thanks!
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nchauras said:
Can someone who got in to the Specialized Studies program tell me about how competitive it is? I am planning on applying for this Fall.

I have a 2.89 GPA, but lots of research, shadowing, and volunteering. I wasn't sure whether I should take the GRE either. I got a 2010 on my SAT and am unsure as to how important it is to have a good test score.

Thanks!
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With a 2.89 - I don't think you are a) a good fit for the program or b) competitive for admissions.

First issue first - most people have GPAs around 3.1-3.2 but there have been people rejected with 3.4s, and those accepted with 3.0s. So i would say your odds arent good but not remote.

More importantly- i dont think you are a good fit for the program. Even after completing the program, you will need still need to do an SMP. And the SSP would be an expensive way of getting your cGPA to 3.0-3.1 which is what you would need for an SMP.
 
The program is for people with low GPAs after all and that's a good SAT score, but you have to consider how much more undergrad credits will raise your GPA though...my cumulative GPA was above 3.0 but my science GPA was below 3.0 so I matriculated to SSP in order to boost that. Not sure what they would say about a cum. GPA that is that low.

Just something to think about depending on your goals (MD/DO/Vet/Dental) and what final GPA you would need to attain that. I can only comment on MD/DO.

EDIT: listen to robflanker lol. On that note though if you are interested in applying DO, make sure to calculate your GPA including all retakes. Penn SSP could help you if you retake some classes here and take additional ones to boost your GPA. With GPAs above 3.0 and a good MCAT, DO could be within reach. Then again you could also just take courses at a nearby university to do this. Personally I feel what you're really paying for is the Penn name on your transcript and recommendation letters from Penn faculty/a Penn committee letter.
 
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SixStringPsych said:
The program is for people with low GPAs after all and that's a good SAT score, but you have to consider how much more undergrad credits will raise your GPA though...my cumulative GPA was above 3.0 but my science GPA was below 3.0 so I matriculated to SSP in order to boost that. Not sure what they would say about a cum. GPA that is that low.

Just something to think about depending on your goals (MD/DO/Vet/Dental) and what final GPA you would need to attain that. I can only comment on MD/DO.
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low GPAs = not 4 standard deviations below MD matriculant average GPA (what a 2.89 is, which the previous poster has)

And Sixstring if you had an sGPA below 3.0 - you should have done an SMP as well
 
robflanker said:
low GPAs = not 4 standard deviations below MD matriculant average GPA (what a 2.89 is, which the previous poster has)

And Sixstring if you had an sGPA below 3.0 - you should have done an SMP as well
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See my edit above. You're right, a 2.89 is way too low for MD and to even consider raising it through more ugrad credits.

I did not have my MCAT score in time to apply to SMPs so instead of rushing it I took my time and am rocking Penn SSP. Also i didnt want to be locked into one school, since my understanding is that even doing an SMP and applying broadly afterwards with any GPA below a 3.0 will get you screened out, so I didn't see the point in not getting my sGPA above a 3.0.

I will be trying my luck this upcoming cycle since I scored well on my MCAT and will apply to SMPs as a backup.
 
SixStringPsych said:
I will be trying my luck this upcoming cycle since I scored well on my MCAT and will apply to SMPs as a backup.
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What will your cGPA and sGPA be?

Look at standard deviations.... if you are outside 1 standard deviation from normal for any one category - applying would be foolish. If you are more than 1 standard dev below for GPA, you better be more than 1 standard dev above for MCAT to balance off. Even then apply broadly, early, and never assume your ECs are as good as you think they are - one of the first things I noticed in medical school is how awesome everyone else's ECs were.

cGPA - 1 standard dev is 0.22 I believe
sGPA - about same I think
MCAT - last time I looked was 3.
 
robflanker said:
What will your cGPA and sGPA be?

Look at standard deviations.... if you are outside 1 standard deviation from normal for any one category - applying would be foolish. If you are more than 1 standard dev below for GPA, you better be more than 1 standard dev above for MCAT to balance off. Even then apply broadly, early, and never assume your ECs are as good as you think they are - one of the first things I noticed in medical school is how awesome everyone else's ECs were.

cGPA - 1 standard dev is 0.22 I believe
sGPA - about same I think
MCAT - last time I looked was 3.
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I don't mean to be combative since I really appreciate all the advice you've given me in this thread, but don't worry about me, I have a plan that I am comfortable with thanks to all of the lovely info here on SDN. Yeah I could've done an SMP but who knows if I would've been ready to perform well in one/if my undergrad GPA would still hold me back (except for in a linkage situation which I wasn't keen on because I want to have a shot at my state schools). Since I wasn't a science major in undergrad taking upper level courses at SSP has been both beneficial to myself for knowing that I can handle a rigorous science curriculum as well as showing this to ad comms. If I don't have success this cycle I can always do an SMP the following year as a legitimate last ditch effort.

Both my GPAs will be within one standard deviation from the mean for matriculated students of my ethnicity and my MCAT will be 1 point above the mean.
 
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SixStringPsych said:
If I don't have success this cycle I can always do an SMP the following year as a legitimate last ditch effort.

Both my GPAs will be within one standard deviation from the mean for matriculated students of my ethnicity and my MCAT will be 1 point above the mean.
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Good to hear - an excellent plan; mine was something similar
 
robflanker said:
Good to hear - an excellent plan; mine was something similar
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:thumbup: IIRC you go to a school in NJ, your state of residency correct? If you're willing to share, what other schools did you get into (if any)? Just curious :)
 
SixStringPsych said:
:thumbup: IIRC you go to a school in NJ, your state of residency correct? If you're willing to share, what other schools did you get into (if any)? Just curious :)
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I got into several schools and withdrew almost all my apps (about 24 withdrawn) after I got into my #2 school - didnt want to leave apps open at places I knew I wouldn't go.
 
Member1004 said:
Just had my interview and feel like it went horribly. I'm not banking on acceptance
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I thought that and still got in.
Member1004 said:
Any advice on other programs that don't require MCAT and have MCAT prep built into their programs?
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MCAT prep at UPenn was shoddy at best - you will still need a Kaplan/Princeton Review/Significant self-study plan on top of it
 
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Member1004 said:
Are you now in medical school? Do you think this program helped?
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Yah - not sure it was the dealer breaker tho.

There are 3 people in my class from Penn - one did straight pre-health, and two of us did a mix of pre-health and SSP.
 
I've been accepted to both (!!), and I'm leaning towards Penn... from what I've read on these forums (in this thread and others) I gather that the Penn (specialized studies) program is geared towards helping you bolster a lackluster application, while Drexel (IMS) is more of a proving ground. Is this a fair read? The main draw for Drexel is the guaranteed interview with DUCOM, but I'm not sure if that's such a substantial perk, as there are mixed reviews regarding the success rate.

The main criticism I see for Penn is of the advising, or lack thereof. What is a reasonable expectation for advising in a post bac setting, and does the program staff fulfill that obligation? Are there any other cons that I should take into account?

I have a 3.34 sGPA and a 29 MCAT. I plan on re-taking the MCAT next spring/summer. I feel like the Penn program is a good fit, but I need some external validation!
 
bachava said:
Hi,
I was accepted recently as well. I'm deciding between Penn and Temple. On one hand, Penn doesn't seem very supportive, classes are all at night (day classes are more expensive), they don't offer any scholarships, grants, or loans beyond what FAFSA gives to you, only 30% link, while there's an 80% success rate for those who don't link. Temple, on the other hand, offers support, MCAT prep, conditional acceptance to med school with your post bacc acceptance, but classes (except lab) are taken with undergrads. It seems like a clear choice, but it really isn't. Would it be better to go to the school with the better name, and endure the rigor and uncertainty of actually being successful and making it to med school, or just go with the offer that SEEMS the safest. IDK, I'm pretty stuck. Someone help me out! lol
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Totally with you bachava. I recently received my acceptance letter and am deciding between Penn, JHU and Temple. Currently, I'm leaning toward JHU and Penn, as I want the prestigious name should I decide not to link. Yes, the conditional acceptance at Temple is amazing, but am I certain that's where I want to go to med school? I really have no idea either - it's a difficult decision!
 
bachava said:
Hi,
I was accepted recently as well. I'm deciding between Penn and Temple. On one hand, Penn doesn't seem very supportive, classes are all at night (day classes are more expensive), they don't offer any scholarships, grants, or loans beyond what FAFSA gives to you, only 30% link, while there's an 80% success rate for those who don't link. Temple, on the other hand, offers support, MCAT prep, conditional acceptance to med school with your post bacc acceptance, but classes (except lab) are taken with undergrads. It seems like a clear choice, but it really isn't. Would it be better to go to the school with the better name, and endure the rigor and uncertainty of actually being successful and making it to med school, or just go with the offer that SEEMS the safest. IDK, I'm pretty stuck. Someone help me out! lol
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Congrats on your acceptance! When did you get into Temple? The website says that they don't start interviews until May...
 
notsam said:
I've been accepted to both (!!), and I'm leaning towards Penn... from what I've read on these forums (in this thread and others) I gather that the Penn (specialized studies) program is geared towards helping you bolster a lackluster application, while Drexel (IMS) is more of a proving ground. Is this a fair read? The main draw for Drexel is the guaranteed interview with DUCOM, but I'm not sure if that's such a substantial perk, as there are mixed reviews regarding the success rate.

The main criticism I see for Penn is of the advising, or lack thereof. What is a reasonable expectation for advising in a post bac setting, and does the program staff fulfill that obligation? Are there any other cons that I should take into account?

I have a 3.34 sGPA and a 29 MCAT. I plan on re-taking the MCAT next spring/summer. I feel like the Penn program is a good fit, but I need some external validation!
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I think you have a good read on it. I think the IMS interview with DUCOM is a lot harder to get then they make it seem. Esp from reading on here.

Yes Penn advising sucks but other than that I had a good experience.
bachava said:
Hi,
I was accepted recently as well. I'm deciding between Penn and Temple. On one hand, Penn doesn't seem very supportive, classes are all at night (day classes are more expensive), they don't offer any scholarships, grants, or loans beyond what FAFSA gives to you, only 30% link, while there's an 80% success rate for those who don't link. Temple, on the other hand, offers support, MCAT prep, conditional acceptance to med school with your post bacc acceptance, but classes (except lab) are taken with undergrads. It seems like a clear choice, but it really isn't. Would it be better to go to the school with the better name, and endure the rigor and uncertainty of actually being successful and making it to med school, or just go with the offer that SEEMS the safest. IDK, I'm pretty stuck. Someone help me out! lol
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You are going to find essentially 0 scholarships or awards for post-bac work, so that shouldnt be a deciding factor. Penn technically has MCAT support, but its pretty dodgy.
Also, the taking classes thing at night has its positives - allows one to work (which a lot of people do), or volunteer/do research/some other useful thing that can only be done during the day. And the classes at night thing with the other post-bacs means you actually get to know who each other are and hang out together - its more important the longer the gap between undergrad and post bac i think (i.e. 30y/o doesnt really wanna hang with undergrads 24/7).
emsp said:
Totally with you bachava. I recently received my acceptance letter and am deciding between Penn, JHU and Temple. Currently, I'm leaning toward JHU and Penn, as I want the prestigious name should I decide not to link. Yes, the conditional acceptance at Temple is amazing, but am I certain that's where I want to go to med school? I really have no idea either - it's a difficult decision!
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Name means nothing. 'A's matter
 
robflanker said:
Yes Penn advising sucks but other than that I had a good experience.
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Thanks for your responses (all 2k of them... you're the man). I'm sorry if you have answered this elsewhere, but what's the rest of the program staff like? Particularly course instructors? Were you taught by Penn faculty, adjunct professors, faculty from other universities? I'm accepted into the specialized studies program, and I'd like to know who I'll be paying to listen to before I make my decision.
 
notsam said:
Thanks for your responses (all 2k of them... you're the man). I'm sorry if you have answered this elsewhere, but what's the rest of the program staff like? Particularly course instructors? Were you taught by Penn faculty, adjunct professors, faculty from other universities? I'm accepted into the specialized studies program, and I'd like to know who I'll be paying to listen to before I make my decision.
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Mostly taught by Penn faculty and adjunct professors. No visiting professors I know of.

I liked the program in terms of its result. I am very self-motivated and did all my own research for med school apps. I didnt deal with Penn advising much because they were useless but I don't think thats a dealbreaker unless you want your hand held (which you shouldnt, cos you are a big kid now and no-one does it med school)

Couple of pages back myself and others have discussed our thoughts on professors.

Use of the Penn gym is pretty solid too
 
Hello all,
I am working on my application now and had some questions about the post-bacc programs at Penn. Any help would be great.

1) Any experience with Physics in the evening sessions? I'll most likely need to complete this sequence. Organic is another possibility as well.

2) Is the Research in Medicine class (with the MD) offered annually? I believe it should be under the BIBB course section but not entirely sure. Sounds to be useful experience.

3) Are you having any issues administratively, as I understand the program director left.

4) MCAT prep...does much exist for students in this track? It sounds with evening classes that there is ample time to study for the exam and take it in the spring.

Thank you.
 
JEWmongous said:
Hello all,
1) Any experience with Physics in the evening sessions? I'll most likely need to complete this sequence. Organic is another possibility as well.
I took physics several years ago
2) Is the Research in Medicine class (with the MD) offered annually? I believe it should be under the BIBB course section but not entirely sure. Sounds to be useful experience.
If this is the course formally run by Judd Hollander and where you do research shifts in the ED. It was offered every semester, but it might have changed as there were a lot of things up in the air last I heard
3) Are you having any issues administratively, as I understand the program director left.
Thats always the case at Penn. If the program director did leave, that would be the 4th or 5th director in the last 6 years
4) MCAT prep...does much exist for students in this track? It sounds with evening classes that there is ample time to study for the exam and take it in the spring.
Formal MCAT prep through the school is crap - count on being on your own for it. Yes you can MCAT prep during the day, but remember you are there to get As. Studying for the MCAT and getting Cs is not going to work
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Answers in red
 
robflanker said:
Answers in red
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Thanks for the answers!

Would also appreciate feedback from those who took the physics/orgo pre-reqs with the Penn post-bacc.

For those who completed the program, did the Penn name help at all while on med/dent interviews? Obviously, I understand that earning a great GPA in the year is key.
 
JEWmongous said:
Thanks for the answers!

Would also appreciate feedback from those who took the physics/orgo pre-reqs with the Penn post-bacc.

For those who completed the program, did the Penn name help at all while on med/dent interviews? Obviously, I understand that earning a great GPA in the year is key.
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Name = no

Feedback,.... what is it you want exactly? My physics professor sucked, but his class was easy
 
I'll be attending Penn LPS for Specialized Studies in the fall. I'm going to start the long process of looking for jobs and apartments. I'm in the market for roommates, so if anyone is interested, send me a private message. I'm going to look for something in University City or Center City (25 yo male, will live with male of female).

I'm completely unfamiliar with Philadelphia, so this will be an adventure.
 
JEWmongous said:
Thanks for the answers!

Would also appreciate feedback from those who took the physics/orgo pre-reqs with the Penn post-bacc.

For those who completed the program, did the Penn name help at all while on med/dent interviews? Obviously, I understand that earning a great GPA in the year is key.
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The Physics/Orgo professors have changed every semester that I was there, so there really is not any great feedback most people can give. The only professor that I had that I would definitely take again was for Biology. Dr. Witmer cared if you put in the effort. She always made herself accessible to her students if they had questions.

As for the Penn name, as previously stated, it doesn't carry much weight if any at all. The friends of mine that got into med school did well in the program, and friends I know that did not do well are either still taking classes or went in a different direction with their lives. FYI, I was in the career changer program, not the SSP. Due to family issues the past couple of years, I have not applied yet, but plan to this coming cycle!
 
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Just got accepted to the Core Studies program today! Interviewed on Tuesday and was told 2-3 weeks for a decision, so it's a quick turnaround.

The admissions director I spoke to (Eli Lesser) and front office told me they're still reviewing applications (deadline was extended to April 15) and are nowhere near filling the target for this upcoming year so I'd say your chances are pretty good.
 
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medicii said:
Just got accepted to the Core Studies program today! Interviewed on Tuesday and was told 2-3 weeks for a decision, so it's a quick turnaround.

The admissions director I spoke to (Eli Lesser) and front office told me they're still reviewing applications (deadline was extended to April 15) and a're nowhere near filling the target for this upcoming year so I'd say your chances are pretty good.
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Nice hey medicii I am appying in May for the Fall core studies cohort. Any advice? do you mind disclosing your stats?

thanks!

ron
 
ronjack87 said:
Nice hey medicii I am appying in May for the Fall core studies cohort. Any advice? do you mind disclosing your stats?

thanks!

ron
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Hey Ron,

I'd be happy to help. Shoot me a PM and I'll get around to it when I have time.
 
No idea about those buildings but I can tell you based on their location that they will be nice places to live lol. They are probably pretty expensive. I nabbed one of the last studios in Chestnut Hall on 39th St last June for a decent price.

It gets pretty difficult to find a cheap place though, probably best bet to look beyond 40th street, it's not so bad since there is a great Penn shuttle service that runs until 3AM, pretty much your own free personal cab service which I discovered my second semester because all of my friends who lived way off campus were using it.
 
Has anyone who interviewed 5/21 heard back yet? I interviewed for ssp and it's been a little over 2 weeks - no reply yet
 
You guys think it's too late applying now to the specialized studies program? It's rolling admissions so I feel like I'm late in the game. I'm already the Drexel IMS but I think I'd rather be in Penn's program cuz of the opportunity for linkage with UMDNJ.
 
ireneeeeex3 said:
You guys think it's too late applying now to the specialized studies program? It's rolling admissions so I feel like I'm late in the game. I'm already the Drexel IMS but I think I'd rather be in Penn's program cuz of the opportunity for linkage with UMDNJ.
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I just got my acceptance to Upenn. I don't think it's too late to apply from the way they were talking about the program during my interview. They still have seats to fill - they turn people down really quickly who don't fit the profile of what they want. They're looking for a specific type of applicant so I think that's why they always have late seats open.

A note on linkage - for UMDNJ - it's really really tricky and million fine rules. One is that you couldn't have taken the MCAT before you start the Upenn program unless you applied to Drexel with your GRE.
 
billy1992 said:
A note on linkage - for UMDNJ - it's really really tricky and million fine rules. One is that you couldn't have taken the MCAT before you start the Upenn program unless you applied to Drexel with your GRE.
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+1

Another is if you got a C in a pre-req ever then you are disqualified
 
Can't take the mcat before? that sucks. I found out their mcat prep isn't that great as it is. And I actually went to their 'open house' today to talk to someone and they gave me no info regarding the linkage whatsoever.

I guess it doesn't hurt to apply, but how/where can I find the rest of the million qualifications you have to meet for linkage?
 
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ireneeeeex3 said:
Can't take the mcat before? that sucks. I found out their mcat prep isn't that great as it is. And I actually went to their 'open house' today to talk to someone and they gave me no info regarding the linkage whatsoever.

I guess it doesn't hurt to apply, but how/where can I find the rest of the million qualifications you have to meet for linkage?
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From them directly. It gets tweaked on a yearly basis. You also have to be nominated by Penn, and they only nominate a handful and then UMDNJ picks from that. So, its like a two-step hurdle. Its easier IMO to just apply AMCAS, cut out the middle man (UPenn)

I keep saying over and over again, linking from Penn (and in general) is over-rated.
 
Robflanker, from all your posts going in and coming out of the program I do see that linkage is def overrated.
So as a student, did you work or do part-time research since most classes are in the evenings? I'm currently a post-bacc researcher at Penn since December and it'll suck to quit but I don't want it to interfere with my studies.
 
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ireneeeeex3 said:
Robflanker, you're like the Confucius of this thread after all these years, so from all your posts going in and coming out of the program I do see that linkage is def overrated.
So as a student, did you work or do part-time research since most classes are in the evenings? I'm currently a post-bacc researcher at Penn since December and it'll suck to quit but I don't want it to interfere with my studies.
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I was a full time student so I didnt work during my SSP year.

You can keep your job, just don't take a full 4 CUs. Maybe take 1 or 2 - getting As is the most important thing
 
how many classes do full time students take? i heard that generally students should take no more than 3, but do people take 4? thanks for the help

also, for prospective/current students signed up for the fall 2013 term, what are you guys doing about class registration? i find it rather odd that penn still is accepting applications/interviewing people despite not adding additional courses for the fall term. how do they expect us to get seats if there are literally only like 3 classes labeled 601 "specialized?" i'm so confused so if anyone has insight, please share it with me
 
lakers91 said:
how many classes do full time students take? i heard that generally students should take no more than 3, but do people take 4? thanks for the help

also, for prospective/current students signed up for the fall 2013 term, what are you guys doing about class registration? i find it rather odd that penn still is accepting applications/interviewing people despite not adding additional courses for the fall term. how do they expect us to get seats if there are literally only like 3 classes labeled 601 "specialized?" i'm so confused so if anyone has insight, please share it with me
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Pretty much just take whatever classes you can get. It definitely sucks and is a horribly disorganized way of doing things, but they do have a lot of BIOL/BIBB classes compared to my undergrad college. I signed up for a few undergrad ones, you might have to do the same If you're looking to go full time.

Depends on your ability, most people take 4 classes unless they're studying for the MCAT.
 
Do the classes meant for post-bac students close if only specialized studies students can do them? I'm hoping to take 4.5 CUs as well but I don't wanna take any morning classes - or undergrad ones - they're double the price
 
Does anyone know if we can just send our letter of recommendations via interfolio or if we have to use the form UPenn provides?
 
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