UPENN Special Science Post Bacc

[travoltage]

does anybody have first hand info regarding upenn special science program...the website is pretty vague and i would love to hear current students or past current student responses to it...i have a 3.4bcpm/3.4overall and a 27 mcat (planning on retaking mcat)....i have completed all pre reqs with a degree in biochemistry/molecular biology

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[fireflygirl]

does anybody have first hand info regarding upenn special science program...the website is pretty vague and i would love to hear current students or past current student responses to it...i have a 3.4bcpm/3.4overall and a 27 mcat (planning on retaking mcat)....i have completed all pre reqs with a degree in biochemistry/molecular biology

I am not in the special sciences program but have a ton of friends that are and know it quite well. What do you need to know?

I am a little concerned with your degree that you won't have much to take here in the form of upper level sciences to increase your BCPM. You really only need about 2-3/10s of a point to be a little more competitive. There is a department here called the Biological Basis of Behavoir. Check out their website: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/ Most of the courses from this department are focused neuropsych but they all count towards your BCPM. You would probably only need to be here a year and take a couple of courses and get all As and then rock the MCAT and you should be set. Also, you will have free reign to tons of great research hospitals where you could boost up your ECs. You could potentially just take classes the first year, study for the MCAT and take it over the early summer, and then start the application process while doing clinical research during your glide year, or anything else for that matter.

PM me if you have specific questions.

 

[travoltage]

i thought that the special science only offered upper level science classes?

 

[fireflygirl]

i thought that the special science only offered upper level science classes?

It does but the courses in the BBB cirriculum - some of them at least - are upper level sciences. And with your degree in molecular bio and biochem, I figured you would have taken a lot of the upper level science courses already offered in the other depts here. Does that make sense?

 

[travoltage]

makes sense, however...would any of you suggest i apply to a diff program?

i would love to finish a masters at penn and hopefully use that to my advantage when applying to med school (assuming i do well)

 

[Cutie Dibbles]

Travoltage -

I'm at Penn right now - I'm technically not in the post-bacc program since as a Penn alumna I can just sign up for classes through their alumni program, but I'm essentially taking classes with the special science kids. Anyway, the Special Science program at Penn isn't degree-granting, so you can't get a master's out of it. That could be good in the sense that the grades you get affect your undergrad GPA, which is most important, but if you're after a degree, you should do one of the SMP programs.

In terms of what classes you can take through the program - it's really pretty flexible. Any evening class at Penn (falling under the College of General Studies) is fair game, and I think you can talk them into letting you take slightly tangential classes (like statistics - they might even offer a Spanish for health professionals class), but there are plenty of upper-level classes to choose from, including, as the other poster said, lots of neuroscience courses. There's immunology, histology, cancer cell biology... lots of stuff. But again, it's really just a way to pad your undergrad GPA and have access to advising resources. No degree, no med school classes. I'd recommend it if and only if upping your undergrad GPA with relevant courses is your objective. Also - the students in my classes are really smart, many of them did their undergrads at places like Harvard and Princeton, so it's definitely not a cakewalk (and Penn isn't known for its grade inflation, sadly). Of course, the good SMPs are almost certainly even harder, so it's all relative. Happy to answer any more questions you might have!

C.D.

 

[riztime]

Well I completed the Special Sciences Post Bac so I can attest that it got me into medical school as I'm now an Anesthesia resident. Courses are not easy as mentioned since grades are weighted on a sliding scale based on your peers (mainly from the ivy league- but even I did well so hard work pays off).

Classes are totally appropriate in terms of adcoms looking at classwork and seeing upperlevel classes including histo, anatomy, biochem, medical stats, etc. A number of adcoms commented on the classes when i interviewed espec some of the more esoteric classes (one of them was the human physiology of water- not sure if it is still offered). Also the Penn name goes a long way. A couple of adcoms said they interviewed me because the former upenn post bac students historically did well. There used to be linkage programs with Robert Wood Johnson Med school but not sure anymore. USC also takes a lot of the Penn postbac students traditionally at least during my time- which was nice espec. if you wanted to be in Cali. There is no mimumum GPA to stay in the program but you had to have at least a 3.5 for them to write you a Deans composite letter.

Overall I enjoyed my time there- worked hard but also played hard. South Street was always fun on the weekends. Cons are no degree unlike Harvard's Extension school. Pros are there are a lot of night classes and it's UPenn.

 

[travoltage]

wow sounds great! i mean i dont have to do an smp (God forbid i do bad in it and not get in for sure), taking extra classes would hopefully improve my ugrad gpa which is really good..i have a 3.4, so getting it up would be very beneficial. do you guys suggest i apply there assuming i get in, plan on doing 1 year of coursework taking extra classes such as the upper level science classes and repeating my mcat over the summer?

is it competetive to get into the special science program? i have lots of outstanding extra curricular activities if that means anything on top of a ok gpa (3.4) with a sub par mcat (27).

by the way, i dont want to bash on DO's or anything, does this program look favorable assuming you do well in your classes and raise your gpa by MD schools? im just not into the DO philosophy and only want to attend an MD school

 

[fireflygirl]

wow sounds great! i mean i dont have to do an smp (God forbid i do bad in it and not get in for sure), taking extra classes would hopefully improve my ugrad gpa which is really good..i have a 3.4, so getting it up would be very beneficial. do you guys suggest i apply there assuming i get in, plan on doing 1 year of coursework taking extra classes such as the upper level science classes and repeating my mcat over the summer?

is it competetive to get into the special science program? i have lots of outstanding extra curricular activities if that means anything on top of a ok gpa (3.4) with a sub par mcat (27).

by the way, i dont want to bash on DO's or anything, does this program look favorable assuming you do well in your classes and raise your gpa by MD schools? im just not into the DO philosophy and only want to attend an MD school

It's become more competitive to get into the Penn Post bac anything since our new advisor came on board. And your stats aren't so bad, and if some of your ECs are medically related, I can't foresee any problems getting in, but like I said, recently the whole system has sort of gone downhill and it's a crapshoot to get in from what I 've seen. I would say rock the essays and the interview and show your enthusiasm and you should be fine.

The Penn name does help to a certain degree. Schools are very well aware of the rigours of the program and it certainly came up in my own interviews as well as some of my friends from this program. So it will be recognized but of course, you have to do all the hard work. Also, you may want to look into some linkage programs too since they really like Penn students.

 

[travoltage]

do you know which schools have a linkage program?

 

[fireflygirl]

do you know which schools have a linkage program?

I have no idea which PBs have a linkeage program but I think that Goucher and Bryn Mawr have the most extensive list. At Penn, we have Penn, Pitt, Mt. Sinai, Jeff, Drexel, Temple, GWU, RWJ.

 

[spicyblue08]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if the UPENN Special Science Post-Bacc has a GPA cutoff?

 

[fireflygirl]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if the UPENN Special Science Post-Bacc has a GPA cutoff?

I'm about 95% sure that it's a 3.0 but you should call to find out.

 

[Anon84]

this is a question for those who are/have been (or even just know) upenn special science students:

realistically, what is considered a competitive gpa/mcat to get into the special science program?

i know the website provides guidelines, but let's be serious.

i've done several post-bac applications already and the time and money to do applications can really add up

the deadline isn't until sometime in july, so i'm still considering it.. but i really want to save myself some time if i really don't have a shot

 

[wingz19]

I also have a question regarding the SS program. If someone knows the answer, I would really appreciate it...How do the linkage programs work? Also, if I participate in the 2008-2009 school year with the Special Science Program, would I be able to enter Medical School in Sept of 2009 or will I still have a glide year?

THanks for your help in advance

 

[fireflygirl]

I also have a question regarding the SS program. If someone knows the answer, I would really appreciate it...How do the linkage programs work? Also, if I participate in the 2008-2009 school year with the Special Science Program, would I be able to enter Medical School in Sept of 2009 or will I still have a glide year?

THanks for your help in advance

So a linkage program gives you conditional acceptance based on a recommendation from the Penn advisors and your BCPM, LORs, ECs....etc assuming that you achieve their minimal MCAT cutoff which for most schools is all 9s. For some places like Penn and Pitt, I think you have to make a min of 9s and still get a 30 (I think). Now if you apply as soon as you start at Penn and apply and get the conditional acceptance, you could potentially start in Fall 2009 w/o the glide year, assuming you make the MCAT cut. If you miss the cut, then you are put in the regular pool of applicants and then you will have a glide year and can either choose to still apply to that one school early (after possibly improving your MCAT) or just go and apply to a bunch of schools like everyone else.

 

[Lokhtar]

So a linkage program gives you conditional acceptance based on a recommendation from the Penn advisors and your BCPM, LORs, ECs....etc assuming that you achieve their minimal MCAT cutoff which for most schools is all 9s. For some places like Penn and Pitt, I think you have to make a min of 9s and still get a 30 (I think). Now if you apply as soon as you start at Penn and apply and get the conditional acceptance, you could potentially start in Fall 2009 w/o the glide year, assuming you make the MCAT cut. If you miss the cut, then you are put in the regular pool of applicants and then you will have a glide year and can either choose to still apply to that one school early (after possibly improving your MCAT) or just go and apply to a bunch of schools like everyone else.

SS program only has linkage with RWJ, not the other schools, as far as I know.

 

[fireflygirl]

SS program only has linkage with RWJ, not the other schools, as far as I know.

Oh I think you're right. I forgot about that

 

[summer08]

Those of you currently in the program- what does Grace's stepping down mean for us all??? Does anyone know why she is stepping down btw?? Craziness :-/

 

[fireflygirl]

Those of you currently in the program- what does Grace's stepping down mean for us all??? Does anyone know why she is stepping down btw?? Craziness :-/

While I am glad that Grace stepped down, I don't envy the position of the students right now. Last time when Lynn Hunter stepped down, the transition was hard. The other advisor was managing everything and Grace was still learning so much that we could only meet with the other advisor until Grace was ready to take on students. That meant that advising was minimal and even more frustrating on those that were currently applying and needed committee letters such as myself. However, for those that are taking classes right now and don't need as much guidance, I think it's alright. I don't know how competent the other two advisors are and since they will be your interim advisors, if they are helpful, it would be best to use them since they are available. If they are not, you are more than welcome to PM me and I'll do the best that I can. My advice would be if you have questions or concerns about the classes you are taking for the fall, get in to see Grace if at all possible or see any of the other advisors. Get all your concerns at least for the next semester taken care of now. Perhaps even map out the classes you are going to take over the next academic year. By the time you will be applying which wouldn't be until next year anyways, you should have another director.

Good luck!

 

[Faze2]

On the application, when they ask you to list the science courses you've taken with grades, should classes like Psychology be included, or do they just want the classic BCPM science courses? (Bio, Physics, Orgo, Chem....)

 

[Chrissy]

I'm not writing to scare anyone who is currently in, or about to start the Penn program. That being said, I was very angry/upset to hear this news. I would like to first state that I have no idea why Grace is leaving and I really hope that this was her personal decision and nothing went wrong (fired, health etc..) Now, all that aside, this program IS getting worse. This is now the second year in a row that applicants have been left out to dry right in the middle of application season. I have been in the program a short time and have been through 3 different advisers. I'm going to bottom line this to all who care: the advisers do not get you into med school so no one should worry about that, however, don't expect close advising. You must do your own hw and take the application process into your own hands.

 

[pbstudent]

i know ive heard that the basic science courses in the penn post-bac program are challenging/set at a low curve. i was wondering about the other upper level science classes that special science students take. are these classes as difficult to do well in, and do they also have a low curve? thanks!!

 

[fireflygirl]

i know ive heard that the basic science courses in the penn post-bac program are challenging/set at a low curve. i was wondering about the other upper level science classes that special science students take. are these classes as difficult to do well in, and do they also have a low curve? thanks!!

The curve is a bit generous in the SS classes as opposed to the basic sciences but not that much better because you've got kids that have a fairly strong science background taking those courses.

I don't know why people worry about this stuff....it's not like knowing one way or the other is going to help you do better or worse. Just go in there knowing that it's challenging but work hard and you'll be fine. Of all the classes I've taken (and I was there nearly 4 years), there was only a handful of classes (Bio 101 and 102, Biochem) that I thought were unfairly curved or graded. And that was more of a testament to the poor teaching skills and experience of the profs than it was to the types of kids I was in the class with.

 

[auv106]

Removed Post

 

[AmyB425]

Anyone here attending Penn Special Sciences for Fall 2008?? I'm thinking about attending, and was curious to see who else was.

 

[fireflygirl]

So, I am going to be do the Special Science Program at Penn this fall. I have completed all the med school pre-reqs, and want to up my science gpa.
1)Are there any upper level science classes that are interesting and not to hard to do well in?
2)What do you have to do in the program to be accepted into the UMDNJ linkage program?
3)Any other advice anyone can offer me?

1) Check out the BBB courses http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/BBBCourseOfferings08c.htm

They are mostly neuroscience based and very interesting courses. Often they aren't difficult to get through and the profs are quite interesting. Courses in particular that I thought were good to take were Chemistry of the Brain, Clinical Research in Emergency Medicine, Biological Basis of Psychiatric Disorders and Clinical Psychopharmacology.

2) You should check out the RWJ website for more details or the Penn website but I think you need at least all 9s on the MCAT and you have to have a 3.6 BCPM. But double check that against the websites. You also have to be nominated by your advisors so if you are interested, approach them to see if you are eligible and find out if they will nominate you.

3) Other advice would include to work hard and take advantage of the research opps you will have with so many great hospitals in the area. Be very careful with what your advisors tell you since the ones that are now there are not very qualified and the director is leaving. Consider hiring a private advisor if you can afford it, or confirm what you are told with your peers or via experienced people on SDN. Do very well in your classes and apply early.

I wish you the best of luck. Philadelphia is a great city - enjoy what it has to offer

 

[Lokhtar]

I believe you have one linkage option (RWJ) as a special science student. At least according to the Penn web site.

Also, what are the course numbers for the BBB courses? Are they BIO XXX or PSYCH XXX? Because the latter may not count as science in AMCAS app.

 

[fireflygirl]

I believe you have one linkage option (RWJ) as a special science student. At least according to the Penn web site.

Also, what are the course numbers for the BBB courses? Are they BIO XXX or PSYCH XXX? Because the latter may not count as science in AMCAS app.

They are all BIO because I took a bunch and they all counted towards my BCPM.

 

[Lokhtar]

1) Check out the BBB courses http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/BBBCourseOfferings08c.htm

They are mostly neuroscience based and very interesting courses. Often they aren't difficult to get through and the profs are quite interesting. Courses in particular that I thought were good to take were Chemistry of the Brain, Clinical Research in Emergency Medicine, Biological Basis of Psychiatric Disorders and Clinical Psychopharmacology.

2) You should check out the RWJ website for more details or the Penn website but I think you need at least all 9s on the MCAT and you have to have a 3.6 BCPM. But double check that against the websites. You also have to be nominated by your advisors so if you are interested, approach them to see if you are eligible and find out if they will nominate you.

3) Other advice would include to work hard and take advantage of the research opps you will have with so many great hospitals in the area. Be very careful with what your advisors tell you since the ones that are now there are not very qualified and the director is leaving. Consider hiring a private advisor if you can afford it, or confirm what you are told with your peers or via experienced people on SDN. Do very well in your classes and apply early.

I wish you the best of luck. Philadelphia is a great city - enjoy what it has to offer

They are all BIO because I took a bunch and they all counted towards my BCPM.

Good stuff - what do they go on your transcript as?

 

[fireflygirl]

Good stuff - what do they go on your transcript as?

This is what it looks like directly from my transcript:
BIBB 269 CHEMISTRY OF THE BRAIN 1.00 CU A


But when I started entering it in AMCAS/AACOMAS, my advisors told me to enter them as BIO classes. When AMCAS and AACOMAS converted, they included it in my BCPM.

 

[Lokhtar]

Cool thanks! I'm deciding between HES and UPENN next year, and just trying to understand all my choices .

 

[AmyB425]

I am deciding between those programs too but I have a few questions.
1. Does anyone know first hand about the available courses at the special science program? I looked online at the bio section and the choices were a little limited...
2. Does anyone know anything about the post-bacc communities at each of these programs? Do people really interact with one another in class? I have had classes where people do and people don't.
3. What are some of the schools are people getting into after they complete these programs?

 

[fireflygirl]

I am deciding between those programs too but I have a few questions.
1. Does anyone know first hand about the available courses at the special science program? I looked online at the bio section and the choices were a little limited...
2. Does anyone know anything about the post-bacc communities at each of these programs? Do people really interact with one another in class? I have had classes where people do and people don't.
3. What are some of the schools are people getting into after they complete these programs?

I can attest to the Penn program:

1. I looked at the Fall course guide and there are a number of courses that you could take. I highly recommend the Biological Basis of Behavoir courses as I took most of them. They will count towards your BCPM. and are interesting and not too difficult to get through. I also recommend the Clinical Research in EM because you get to work and do research in the HUP ER. I don't know if you have already taken O-Chem but it is taught well at Penn by Dr. William Price.

2. The post bac community is fairly isolated. Most people especially in the special science program are there for a year or maybe two and are specifically there to get through the program and get out of there. I didn't make too many lasting friendships there though one of my friends did meet her now fiancee in Physics . Also, I think regardless of where you go, you are going to realise that you are not in UG anymore; people come to post-bacs single, with spouses, and families, so while you may find a few good friends there, you won't find a very wide social net.

3. The matriculation when I started at Penn was considered to be 95% though I am not sure what it is now. I have friends going to Ivies, big research schools, low tier allo schools, osteopathic schools and even a few heading to the Caribbean. Penn sends its grads everywhere. Don't think that the Penn name will take you very far; you will have to do the hard work and rock the MCAT. And with some of the admin changes going on right now, you will have to do some of the work and ensure that your committee letters and files are complete at all schools. The Penn post bacs don't get to use the Interfolio program that the UGs get to use, so everything is done by paper. Finally, you are going to have access to some of the best hospitals and research opps in the world and if that's your thing, Penn is a great place to be.

 

[auv106]

Removing my post

 

[AmyB425]

Do people in the Special Sciences program who do well have a better chance of being accepted to Penn med?

 

[Yoyomama88]

Amy, there is no formal linkage, I think that if you had the credentials ( 33 + MCAT) and a decent ugpa (3.5 atleast) and you got a 3.7-3.8 during upenn post-bac they would be inclined to give you an interview....but that is really just my opinion.

 

[NilamPatel]

What is the structure of the Clinical Research in EM program? Meaning are there exams? Research papers? etc.

Is it difficult?

How hard is it to be able to schedule the course?

Who do you work with?

How many hours a day are you in the hospital?

ugh..im in the clinical ER class

1. the tests are nonsense and hard. don't take more than 2 classes with it. even then one of my classes is alot easier than the other.
2. you work 2 shifts for six hours..first semester you HAVE to work a weekend
3. you work with residents and crabby nurses who ignore you, hate you, and will do anything in their power not to return forms back to you
4. the class makes you never want to be a doctor - EVER. doctors in the ER are so jaded and cynical, that you hope you never turn out like them.

maybe my views are a little skewed because i work late night shifts when philly is the most dangerous and people are the stupidest. my experiences with the residents has been okay..60% are nice. and the nurses are just always crabby and annoyed about something - i guess their lives suck. im not sure if the experience is worth it just yet because i don't know what i will get in the class. the first exam i got a 60 and that was the "average", kinda like how it's the "average" every other semester. if you want more details..message me - i don't want to start naming names.

 

[NilamPatel]

Do people in the Special Sciences program who do well have a better chance of being accepted to Penn med?

hell no..pre health kids have a better chance at penn then we do. special sciences are people that screwed up in the undergrad and need to take more science classes to make up for their crappy GPA, so it's harder because you already have SOO many science credits from undergrad and taking 6 - 8 classes here doesn't make a big difference...im so annoyed about the admin. change and that the program is falling apart..im applying through my undergrad, so are alot of other people i know. alot of people are leaving and doing MPH because it's better than throwing money away on a non degree..penn has a great reputation and all, and yea they 97% of people get in from this program..but i don't appreciate the run around and BS they throw at you when you apply and interview - when you get here EVERYONE JUST LEAVES! this is the second person to leave since i've been here

 

[fireflygirl]

ugh..im in the clinical ER class

1. the tests are nonsense and hard. don't take more than 2 classes with it. even then one of my classes is alot easier than the other.
2. you work 2 shifts for six hours..first semester you HAVE to work a weekend
3. you work with residents and crabby nurses who ignore you, hate you, and will do anything in their power not to return forms back to you
4. the class makes you never want to be a doctor - EVER. doctors in the ER are so jaded and cynical, that you hope you never turn out like them.

maybe my views are a little skewed because i work late night shifts when philly is the most dangerous and people are the stupidest. my experiences with the residents has been okay..60% are nice. and the nurses are just always crabby and annoyed about something - i guess their lives suck. im not sure if the experience is worth it just yet because i don't know what i will get in the class. the first exam i got a 60 and that was the "average", kinda like how it's the "average" every other semester. if you want more details..message me - i don't want to start naming names.

Nilam has it right albeit a bit cynical in her opinion though I can understand her frustration because you'll notice that I have complained about a lot of the same issues she has mentioned in this and her in next post. Anyways, the class isn't too bad and what I liked about it the best was the exposure to EM and the interesting cases I got to see. If you do a little networking, you'll find some great residents/docs who will teach you how to read an x-ray, take a BP....etc.

The downside to the class is that the tests are complete crap and they are not really indicative of what you learn and they aren't even necesary. There are no papers. Dr. Hollander isn't the greatest teacher in the world and he has been known to play favorites. However, I did fine in the class and it really helped me get my foot in the door in terms of research jobs. I think I got more opps to interview than I would have otherwise just because of what I learned from this class.

 

[fireflygirl]

Do people in the Special Sciences program who do well have a better chance of being accepted to Penn med?

Nope, not unless you have the appropriate credentials and even then they are very very stringent in who they interview. I know someone who went there UG, had a 4.0 BCPM and 33, good connections, good LORs but didn't have the right (or perhaps enough) lab experience and that was an issue discussed in the interview. They are really looking for certain types of students and while they do have a considerable amount that come from Penn, you have to have the right stuff, baby (as in the historical words of NKOTB)!!!

 

[riceman04]

Is anyone taking histology????????????

Dr. Weil is awesome

 

[AmyB425]

So where are people from Special Sciences, not pre-health, getting in?

 

[fireflygirl]

So where are people from Special Sciences, not pre-health, getting in?

That data is not collected. As I mentioned before, people go everywhere reagardless of whether or not they are coming out of the SS program. It's up to you to do well and rock the MCAT.

 

[auv106]

Removing my post

 

[fireflygirl]

I thought any class taught by Nedra Lexow was easy. She took a more primary literature approach to class and heavily stressed writing essays and giving presentations on scientific papers which I loved since I love to write and give presentations. She teaches the BBB courses. I think in the fall she is teaching Psychopharmacology.

 

[Faze2]

What kind of questions do they ask you in the interview? I am interviewing next week and I was curious as to what to expect. Is it like a med school interview basically?

 

[MrDrizzle]

I had a phone interview on June 30th. It was pretty informal, I didn't think it was a big deal. My undergraduate advisor had me fill out a questionnaire that had a lot of similar topics so there wasn't really anything out of left field. First question was "Why do you want to be a doctor?" That kind of segued into asking me about my volunteer experience; pretty superficial, just what I did and how I liked it, what I took from it, etc. Same for research experience. Then he asked how I found out about the Special Science program and what I found appealing about it. I also got the "tell me where you see yourself in 5 years" deal. Overall nothing special. My interviewer was very casual. It seemed the interview is there just to make sure you're sincere.

 

[AmyB425]

is the clinical research in EM six hours a week or 12?

 

[fireflygirl]

is the clinical research in EM six hours a week or 12?

When I took the class, it was two 5 hour shifts, though I had one 5 hour and one 4 hour due to the fact that we couldn't work before 7 AM or after midnight. I did a 7-12 shift and a 8-midnight shift. But you never worked more than 10 hours a week.