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BraggPeak

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Does anyone know:

it looks like the the current 3rd year class at penn is only two residents (all others are four). is Penn only taking 2 residents this year?

this year seems to be getting worse and worse!
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penn radonc is a growing program. i would check with their associate program director about the exact # of spots for 2009.

don't sweat it too much though. they are a categorical program now that requires a prelim medicine internship at penn, so you cannot enjoy time at a cush TY. also there will undoubtedly be challenges associated with moving into their new proton-equipped facility in the next few years...challenges that will trickle down to the residents and affect the way they work :)
 
spoke with Penn today. it's confirmed-- they are interviewing for two spots next year
 
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UrbanAmish said:
penn radonc is a growing program. i would check with their associate program director about the exact # of spots for 2009.

don't sweat it too much though. they are a categorical program now that requires a prelim medicine internship at penn, so you cannot enjoy time at a cush TY. also there will undoubtedly be challenges associated with moving into their new proton-equipped facility in the next few years...challenges that will trickle down to the residents and affect the way they work :)
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How negative . . . how about all the opportunities and excitement at working at a brand new cancer center?
 
hey hey, i'm just trying to lessen this atmosphere of anxiety by mentioning the downsides. of course doing residency at penn would be totally awesome! ;)
 
Does anyone have a good feel for how bad/brutal/killer the internship may be? A friend had a recent interview there and got little feeling for the internship other than some basics from their program director. Curious as I have upcoming interview there. Any Penn med students out there?
 
U Penn emailed me last week specifically to remind me that the intern year at U Penn was mandatory with the Rad Onc residency. Funny thing was, they had never invited me for an interview. Maybe they really were trying to make those of us without interviews feel better about not going there.
 
at a recent interview I spoke with the PGY2 radonc residents that recently completed the prelim year at Upenn (its only been in place for one year). the consensus is that its tough work, but overall a good experience. a few made token comments about how you need a tough medicine year to "recognize sick patients," and sounded like they would have chosen a rigorous prelim no matter where they matched. Others were less vocal about the advantages of the mandatory prelim. Sounds like their elective time (3 months) was mostly spent doing onc related things (including research, it would seem). The most important thing (imo) is that no one was outspoken against it.
 
As a penn rad onc resident having just wrapped up the prelim year, I couldn't agree more with the post by "souljah1" (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362360) who appears to be currently in the midst of his/her intern year ... I believe categorical.

To add, here is my candid perspective about the strengths and weaknesses about the prelim year. While I agree that the prelim year is not a walk in the park, looking back I wouldnt trade the experience in for anything.


The Positives:

1) The People: I dont think I've met a brighter, more collegial, and well adjusted group than my co-interns and residents (mostly categoricals). Not only is it a fun group, but everybody really does look out for each other. Many of my co-residents' closest friends were our co-interns.

2) The System: It is very helpful to already know the system as a resident. Not only does it help to know the hospital in and out as well as the myriad computer systems, but as an intern you forge relationships with residents, attendings, and departments that really do come in handy after you've moved on to your residency.

3) The Administration: Lisa Bellini, the PD, is very fair. The few times that I turned to her with any issues, she was concerned, and addressed them expediently. She looks after her residents and runs a tight ship...what I mean by that is that the program is extremely well organized, and the 80 hr work wk is strictly enforced. The program coordinator, Sue Giangrasso, is a complete sweetheart and treats the residents like they were her own children. I never felt that I was treated differently than the categoricals. We had 3 elective months, and the department was very flexible working with us with this time.

4) Clinical Confidence: Before residency, I dont think I appreciated how sick radiation oncology patients can get. It is reassuring to me that after this prelim year I feel very comfortable/confident in being able to appropriately manage/triage sick patients. Looking back, I realize that this only comes from clinical experience (dealing with a high acuity population and working with very bright residents and attendings) ... theres no easy way around that.

Also, while patients are on treatment....you are their PCP. While some sail through treatment, rest assured that you will have to manage every toxicity imaginable. The point is, you have to be able to deal with everything under the sun, from diarrhea to sepsis. With that I will get off my soap box (sorry guys)


The Negatives:

1) Service Appropriation: I personally felt that I had a bit more disproportianate time on the cardiology services than I would have liked. It wasnt a huge problem, because you are still managing general medicine issues, but for me a little less than ideal. However, I managed to switch a good portion of this time out with my co-interns interested in cardiology for their oncology floor time.

This issue was brought to the attention of our program director, who was very receptive and is currently working with the medicine program director to tailor the rad onc prelim year to have more oncology time.

2) Intern year: a pager that wouldnt shut up, call nights, bunk beds, graham crackers, cafeteria food (well...HUPs actually decent)

I know I said that I wouldnt trade the experience for anything..but Lordy Lord...its nice to know that its behind me. Anyhow, thats my two bits. Feel free to private msg me with any questions.
 
any word on how many residents they will be actually taking? i've heard maybe 3 or 4?
 
IRISH22 said:
a few made token comments about how you need a tough medicine year to "recognize sick patients," and sounded like they would have chosen a rigorous prelim no matter where they matched.
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I love it when they buy their own rhetoric. Sort of the equivilent to asking someone if they're still beating their wife.
 
stephew said:
I love it when they buy their own rhetoric. Sort of the equivilent to asking someone if they're still beating their wife.
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choosing an intern year is in no way, shape or form 'equivilent' to domestic violence. not even in an analogy.
 
what are your thoughts on howthe development of a major proton center at Penn will change the residency? (I dont mean are protons good or bad, etc...please no more of that) I am just wondering if it might become too "proton heavy" if thats even possible.

Also, what is their clinical volume like now, and how will that all change in the next year when this thing comes online. They talked about doubling faculty, too. Anyone else been around as a resident when the faculty changed rapidly/massively?
 
IRISH22 said:
what are your thoughts on howthe development of a major proton center at Penn will change the residency? (I dont mean are protons good or bad, etc...please no more of that) I am just wondering if it might become too "proton heavy" if thats even possible.

Also, what is their clinical volume like now, and how will that all change in the next year when this thing comes online. They talked about doubling faculty, too. Anyone else been around as a resident when the faculty changed rapidly/massively?
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it wont change the residency. To begin with, the dosimetry of treatment is only one little component of training. And protons wont replace photons. A non-issue.
 
From what I heard when I was there I think they will be the one center doing the right thing with protons. I don't believe their center is financed at all by a 3rd party for profit (like others) and it seems that they are trying to fully integrate it into the department. And with CHOP next door, they will probably be using protons for many peds cancers instead of aiming it at NASA engineers' prostates.
 
From what I heard when I was there I think they will be the one center doing the right thing with protons. I don't believe their center is financed at all by a 3rd party for profit (like others) and it seems that they are trying to fully integrate it into the department. And with CHOP next door, they will probably be using protons for many peds cancers instead of aiming it at NASA engineers' prostates.
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From what I got at the interview day this seems to be true - it is non-profit and they're looking to use it for research work as well as integrating it into clinical work alongside photons.

However, as far as future residents' work schedule. . .A couple of the residents told us that they were probably going to have to start working saturdays once the new center opened up. After bringing that issue up with some of the other (more senior) residents later in the day, they asked us where we got that info, and gave the impression that we weren't supposed to know that. Specifically, no one denied it.

I guess at this point, though, it's somewhat conjecture. Anyone who has reliable info care to clarify?
 
Penn was approved to take 3 residents for the 2008 match, so they'll be replacing the two 2009 graduates with three.

Also, UPenn is a FOR PROFIT hospital. The funding for the protons came from multiple sources, but will be a huge resource for Children's Hospital of Philadelphia -- which is a separate entitiy from Penn.

As for Saturday work -- no one knows at this point. It will depend on how many patients are on treatment and how much staff they have. A physician is supposed to be present whenever the beam is on, so the hours are divided up by all the residents. But with 15-16 residents, the seniors only have 2 weeks of call for the whole year!
 
upenn's proton center has received significant funding from walter reed and the DOD...

The center will have strong ties to Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington, D.C. “We have a strong relationship with the U.S. Department of Defense, which has provided us with important funding for the new center,” says Stephen Hahn, MD, chair of the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. “We will have seamless IT technology integration with Walter Reed, which will enable us to perform joint treatment planning. In this way, proton therapy can be part of an overall treatment plan for those military patients and their family members who need it.”

http://pennhealth.com/phys_forum/pto/mar_apr07/proton_therapy.html
 
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