UPMC

[zedssssssss]

quick question,
ive heard rumors that UPMC is not very DO friendly? is there any truth to this ?

thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DopaDO]

quick question,
ive heard rumors that UPMC is not very DO friendly? is there any truth to this ?

thanks

I haven't heard this. I know they have DOs in several of their residency programs. They interviewed several of my DO friends for various specialties this past cycle.

 

[AlteredScale]

There's no DO's in IM at UPMC 🙁

 

[DopaDO]

They have no DOs in internal medicine, general surgery, any surgical subspecialties, neurology, emergency medicine, OB/gyn, peds, med/peds

I know for a fact they have interviewed DOs in EM, General Surgery, Integrated CT, Ophthalmology, and Anesthesia.

I also know of at least one surgical subspecialty w a DO 😉

 

[JimmyB123]

Very anti-DO. Don't apply. But I think allegheny hospital is around the corner and they are a little more so friendly ?

 

[AlmadeDr]

The key point here is that all residency programs at a given hospital will have their own policies regarding DOs. For internal medicine, just forget it. If you apply they will only send you information on how to apply through the aoa match to their "osteopathic internship" year at their shadyside location

 

[zedssssssss]

can anyone comment on their dual programs?they obv have some DO interest? or is this a fake

 

[DopaDO]

At an institutional level and in the majority of departments it is very old-school and anti-DO. That was my point, not to do an exhaustive search of their resident rosters for every single department. It speaks volumes that they don't have any DOs in medicine or general surgery, to say nothing of traditionally more DO friendly fields like peds. The only department that seems to have any openness to DOs is anesthesia (which is actually the case at a lot of traditionally no-DO institutions). It's already been well-discussed that ophtho is unique among surgical fields in their willingness to consider DOs.

Based on comments by some of their faculty and a resident I have a very hard time believing that they interviewed a DO in general surgery. They've certainly never matched one.

The guy who interviewed general surgery there did not match there. It was his first choice. He was number 1 in our class w/ 270+ on both Step 1&2... I don't think he had much else on his app though.

The guy who interviewed CT had low 240s Steps, but had strong research experience. He also did not match there.

I doubt they would waste interview slots on candidates they wouldn't consider. If it is as DO unfriendly as you say, maybe they are starting to turn over a new leaf.

 

[zedssssssss]

can anyone comment on their dual programs?they obv have some DO interest?

 

[gators21]

I know of 1 person in my class that matched UPMC Shadyside IM at the dual accredited program

 

[preDoGuy24]

The guy who interviewed general surgery there did not match there. It was his first choice. He was number 1 in our class w/ 270+ on both Step 1&2... I don't think he had much else on his app though.

The guy who interviewed CT had low 240s Steps, but had strong research experience. He also did not match there.

I doubt they would waste interview slots on candidates they wouldn't consider. If it is as DO unfriendly as you say, maybe they are starting to turn over a new leaf.

Interviews are not the same as matching as I am sure you are aware. UPMC is a huge system with many different programs outside of their flagship Pittsburgh hospitals. They don't take DOs in any of their surgical programs, internal medicine etc at their main hospitals. Used to take occasional DO in Rads (haven't that I have seen in a while). I know of a DO who matched rad onc their a year ago though ( he took a year off to do research). DO student bias is very real at UPMC (Presbyterian/Montfeiore) but not at their other sites -mercy, shady side, st Margaret etc..

They will interview you but more than likely not take you in the match.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zedssssssss]

thanks evreyone for the reply

my question was more for IM and FM and yes at "their other sites -mercy, shady side, st Margaret etc.. " lol

should i just not apply? or would it be ok for IM and FM

thanks

 

[preDoGuy24]

thanks evreyone for the reply

my question was more for IM and FM and yes at "their other sites -mercy, shady side, st Margaret etc.. " lol

should i just not apply? or would it be ok for IM and FM

thanks

Should have emphasized that, most definitely yes! Apply and see what happens as long as you aren't dead set on landing the Presbyterian spots you can definitely train within the upmc system as a DO...they have a fair amount of dual accredited/DO residencies in their system as well (1 DO surgical residency that's not in Pittsburgh and several FM and IM residencies). Plenty of DOs match within the system every year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[A Nonie Meus]

thanks evreyone for the reply

my question was more for IM and FM and yes at "their other sites -mercy, shady side, st Margaret etc.. " lol

should i just not apply? or would it be ok for IM and FM

thanks

Lol. SDN is crazy.

You brought up UPMC and DO and residency. That's some sensitive territory for the busy surgical and internal medicine residents here.

 

[Promethean]

Since UPMC demanded an exorbitant fee per student per month for LECOM students to rotate through their facilities, those two institutions have parted ways, and LECOM partnered instead with the rival health network, AHN.

UPMC holds grudges. I could see them taking out their animosity on DO students.

That said, I've worked at UPMC facilities with a number of really fantastic surgeons and anesthesiologists who are DOs. They seemed to be paid the same respect as any other physicians.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Since UPMC demanded an exorbitant fee per student per month for LECOM students to rotate through their facilities, those two institutions have parted ways, and LECOM partnered instead with the rival health network, AHN.

UPMC holds grudges. I could see them taking out their animosity on DO students.

That said, I've worked at UPMC facilities with a number of really fantastic surgeons and anesthesiologists who are DOs. They seemed to be paid the same respect as any other physicians.

Once again you are commenting on things you have no knowledge about except what you have heard here. Having spoken with several program directors at UPMC residencies on the issue of Lecom and UPMC, it is a whole lot less one sided then you are portraying it. No one has said that DOs working there are less respected (their previous radiology PD was a DO). The issue with not taking DOs has zero to do with a grudge against LECOM-this has been a fact at UPMC for a whole lot longer than two years.

I think LECOM will appreciate you towing the company line, but maybe wait till you start classes first?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[hallowmann]

quick question,
ive heard rumors that UPMC is not very DO friendly? is there any truth to this ?

thanks

Its not a rumor. As a matter of policy they are very DO-unfriendly across the board. Many PDs have explicitly said they won't take DO, and couple have stated that taking DOs would make their programs look weak. I don't feel comfortable going into specifics, but that's just the way it is.

The only UPMC Presby program that takes DOs consistently is RadOnc, usually because those DOs spend an entire year (as in a year-off during med school) doing research there. Path occasionally takes DOs, but even that is rare.

By the way, I'm not saying don't apply there, just don't get your hopes up even if they do interview you.

Very anti-DO. Don't apply. But I think allegheny hospital is around the corner and they are a little more so friendly ?

Allegheny is very DO friendly for basically everything except for some surgical stuff. That said, as far as programs go, you can't really compare them to UPMC.

thanks evreyone for the reply

my question was more for IM and FM and yes at "their other sites -mercy, shady side, st Margaret etc.. " lol

should i just not apply? or would it be ok for IM and FM

thanks

That is a VERY different question. UPMC is anti-DO, but they have multiple pro-DO hospital affiliates, many with DO programs that regularly take DOs.

To name a few, UPMC Shadyside has a dual-track and takes 4 DOs a year for a TRI that feeds into their ACGME IM program (its essentially a dual program without qualifying for AOA IM boards) as well as a dual FM program. UPMC Mercy has a dual IM program, UPMC Mckeesport has dual FM and IM programs, UPMC Hamot (Erie) has DO EM and Neuro programs, UPMC Altoona has a dual FM program, UPMC Horizon (Farrell) has DO FM, IM, & GenSurg programs, and UPMC St. Margaret has a dual FM program. Basically all of these hospitals explicitly take DOs in multiple programs.

These are all community affiliates though, they are not the same as "UPMC", which generally means Presby. Also, when it comes to fellowships, the anti-DO bias is also pretty prevalent.

 

[redpanda]

That is a VERY different question. UPMC is anti-DO, but they have multiple pro-DO hospital affiliates, many with DO programs that regularly take DOs.

To name a few, UPMC Shadyside has a dual-track and takes 4 DOs a year for a TRI that feeds into their ACGME IM program (its essentially a dual program without qualifying for AOA IM boards) as well as a dual FM program. UPMC Mercy has a dual IM program, UPMC Mckeesport has dual FM and IM programs, UPMC Hamot (Erie) has DO EM and Neuro programs, UPMC Altoona has a dual FM program, UPMC Horizon (Farrell) has DO FM, IM, & GenSurg programs, and UPMC St. Margaret has a dual FM program. Basically all of these hospitals explicitly take DOs in multiple programs.

These are all community affiliates though, they are not the same as "UPMC", which generally means Presby. Also, when it comes to fellowships, the anti-DO bias is also pretty prevalent.

This. Just to sort out the nomenclature, UPMC is the name of the corporation that owns (or the subsidaries own, yay legalese) the hospitals with the UPMC name on it (e.g. UPMC Presbyterian, UPMC Mckeesport, etc.). Just because the residency program has the UPMC name on it does not mean it is all the same or similar residency programs. Governance and attitudes toward degree letters vary widely among the programs. The use of "UPMC" by the OP on this thread, I think, is referring to the flagship program (aka home base Presby/Monte), which is usually listed as UPMC Medical Education in ERAS.

 

[JimmyB123]

This. Just to sort out the nomenclature, UPMC is the name of the corporation that owns (or the subsidaries own, yay legalese) the hospitals with the UPMC name on it (e.g. UPMC Presbyterian, UPMC Mckeesport, etc.). Just because the residency program has the UPMC name on it does not mean it is all the same or similar residency programs. Governance and attitudes toward degree letters vary widely among the programs. The use of "UPMC" by the OP on this thread, I think, is referring to the flagship program (aka home base Presby/Monte), which is usually listed as UPMC Medical Education in ERAS.

On a side note, what about Magee Womans hospital? It's a very renown hospital right? Is it a teaching hospital or just a loosely UPMc affiliated community hospital? Anti do as well?

 

[Promethean]

I'm no OB expert, but it looks like that's just the name of their women's/L&D hospital.

A lot of institutions name their women's hospital (and their children's hospital) after donors. Because $$$

That's different than a community affiliate.

It used to be a stand alone hospital. Like all the hospitals in the UPMC system. Each was consumed one by one by the metastasis. UPMC has retained the historical names of facilities, just tacking their initials onto it in some way, in an attempt to retain community good will and name recognition.

Once again you are commenting on things you have no knowledge about except what you have heard here. Having spoken with several program directors at UPMC residencies on the issue of Lecom and UPMC, it is a whole lot less one sided then you are portraying it.

You are right that the situation is not that simple. I don't really think that this one issue is the source of any and all anti-DO bias. It is rather a symptom of such bias than a cause. But I think that having spent quite a few years working in UPMC facilities, I have some sense of the culture and attitudes.

 

[235009]

some real talk going on in this thread by @SouthernSurgeon and @preDoGuy24

I wish this post could be stickied...

Communiversity affiliates =/= University

Ah gotta love the passive aggressive digs...

I'm sure you'd prefer it if everyone with any experience stopped posting. It would increase the rah-rah factor and decrease the accuracy of the information, which seems to be the MO of this forum half the time.

The OP asked the question. The answer is that Pitt is not a DO friendly institution. I'm sorry that that is so upsetting, but please continue shooting the messenger.

If the question was are the AOA accredited community programs that have a loose affiliation with Pitt DO friendly, then the answer would be different (and hopefully obvious).

The doublespeak of this forum continually impresses me. Out of one side of the mouth deride prestige and tiers and top institutions, and attack the people who choose to train there. Out of the other side of the mouth desperately scrabble to find ways to associate with these same programs to the point of intellectual dishonesty (acting like community affiliates are the same thing as the university program) or flat out lying

 

[Promethean]

The only department that seems to have any openness to DOs is anesthesia (which is actually the case at a lot of traditionally no-DO institutions).

And it is a small sample size, to be sure, but that tap seems to be drying up based on the current trend.

In prior years, there have been ~3 DOs per cohort. Last year, 2. This year, 0.

Will be interesting to see what happens going forward.

 

[redpanda]

On a side note, what about Magee Womans hospital? It's a very renown hospital right? Is it a teaching hospital or just a loosely UPMc affiliated community hospital? Anti do as well?

If Magee could be attached to Presby/Monte, it would be. It's an academic hospital. The only program whose core site it is is the OB/GYN program, which is, by all accounts, a great and well-respected OB/GYN program with lots of volume. Peds and FM (multiple UPMC affiliated progs) rotate through the L&D, mom & baby units, and NICU. Anesthesia rotates through for the OB/GYN and some MIS cases. Medicine occasionally rotates through for the geriatrics ward service there or the palliative care consult service. And, of course, the subspecialty services based at Presby will do consults there.

 

[A Nonie Meus]

Communiversity affiliates =/= University



Ah gotta love the passive aggressive digs...

I'm sure you'd prefer it if everyone with any experience stopped posting. It would increase the rah-rah factor and decrease the accuracy of the information, which seems to be the MO of this forum half the time.

The OP asked the question. The answer is that Pitt is not a DO friendly institution. I'm sorry that that is so upsetting, but please continue shooting the messenger.

If the question was are the AOA accredited community programs that have a loose affiliation with Pitt DO friendly, then the answer would be different (and hopefully obvious).

The doublespeak of this forum continually impresses me. Out of one side of the mouth deride prestige and tiers and top institutions, and attack the people who choose to train there. Out of the other side of the mouth desperately scrabble to find ways to associate with these same programs to the point of intellectual dishonesty (acting like community affiliates are the same thing as the university program) or flat out lying

Sorry, it was a knee-jerk reaction. You know, I actually think you give great advice and seem very genuine -- meaning you don't seem to have an agenda.

My problem is the people/posters? who are concerned with everyone in this forum just waiting to **** on someone's match. It happens...

 

[AlteredScale]

The guy who interviewed general surgery there did not match there. It was his first choice. He was number 1 in our class w/ 270+ on both Step 1&2... I don't think he had much else on his app though.

The guy who interviewed CT had low 240s Steps, but had strong research experience. He also did not match there.

I doubt they would waste interview slots on candidates they wouldn't consider. If it is as DO unfriendly as you say, maybe they are starting to turn over a new leaf.

That would be extremely disappointing and frustrating if UPMC was interviewing DO grads with the intention of giving them the boot from the get-go.

UCSD is just as unforgiving when it comes to taking DO grads in any of their programs minus family medicine. UCSD Emergency Medicine landed one DO grad from Rowan and that guy had spectacular research on his CV. There is only one full-time clinical instructor that is a DO on the EM faculty and 2 DO's in the IM faculty.

There are just some university hospitals (like BYU...er BWH..er I have no clue what I'm talking about 😉) that get applicants from top-tier MD programs. For them it's not so much bias as it is having the supply of cream of the crop grads who, at the end of the day, will bring in research $$$, prestige, new discoveries/breakthroughs.

 

[JimmyB123]

That would be extremely disappointing and frustrating if UPMC was interviewing DO grads with the intention of giving them the boot from the get-go.

UCSD is just as unforgiving when it comes to taking DO grads in any of their programs minus family medicine. UCSD Emergency Medicine landed one DO grad from Rowan and that guy had spectacular research on his CV. There is only one full-time clinical instructor that is a DO on the EM faculty and 2 DO's in the IM faculty.

There are just some university hospitals (like BYU...er BWH..er I have no clue what I'm talking about 😉) that get applicants from top-tier MD programs. For them it's not so much bias as it is having the supply of cream of the crop grads who, at the end of the day, will bring in research $$$, prestige, new discoveries/breakthroughs.

The guy from Rowan that matched EM at UCSD...what was his research portfolio like? Is his CV online?

 

[JimmyB123]

also ismet should chime in

 

[Dharma]

That would be extremely disappointing and frustrating if UPMC was interviewing DO grads with the intention of giving them the boot from the get-go.

UCSD is just as unforgiving when it comes to taking DO grads in any of their programs minus family medicine. UCSD Emergency Medicine landed one DO grad from Rowan and that guy had spectacular research on his CV. There is only one full-time clinical instructor that is a DO on the EM faculty and 2 DO's in the IM faculty.

There are just some university hospitals (like BYU...er BWH..er I have no clue what I'm talking about 😉) that get applicants from top-tier MD programs. For them it's not so much bias as it is having the supply of cream of the crop grads who, at the end of the day, will bring in research $$$, prestige, new discoveries/breakthroughs.

I believe there has been a few DO in UCSD neuro and psych, as well as faculty.

 

[AlteredScale]

I believe there has been a few DO in UCSD neuro and psych, as well as faculty.

You are correct!!!