Upstate Corruption - turn down acceptance?

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Turn it down?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 9.7%

  • No

    Votes: 56 90.3%
  • Total voters
    62
M

Mt. Marcy

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I was accepted to SUNY Upstate; however, I've just found that there was considerable corruption taking place there. After receiving my acceptance, I did more research into the school. What I found was not at all comforting. In addition to Upstate been placed on probation in 2012, there has been a considerable amount of ethical issues there. Former president David Smith was caught stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was convicted. Vice-president Steven Brady was convicted of stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was caught lying about his past. This corruption appears to continue: President Larraque-Arena resigned after being busted in yet another corruption scandal: paying the former hospital CEO $660,000 for doing no work.

I am thinking about turning down this acceptance; I don't know if this is a good enough reason or not. It seems as if Upstate is mired in corruption. However, my understanding is that turning down an MD acceptance for any reason is a massive black mark against you and may well keep you from a medical career for life. Is this at all a mitigating circumstance? I have always been and seek to continue to be a person of integrity; I hope that it is not too much to ask that the leaders of my medical school not be mired in a continued pattern of mismanagement and corruption. This was not a single, isolated instance of corruption, but a pattern of corruption at the highest ranks of Upstate leadership.

This is the only acceptance I have received.
 
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If this is your only A then you will go to the school regardless of what SDN thinks because you want to be a doctor,
 
you might not get another chance to be a doctor. Unless you strongly suspect you might attend and then not graduate and have a ton of debt and wasted time.

With a state school dedicated to pumping out doctors for new york, it seems unlikely for it just to lose accreditation and be thrown in the trash. UMDNJ just got splintered up for example.

i mean, its new york...
 
Mt. Marcy said:
I was accepted to SUNY Upstate; however, I've just found that there was considerable corruption taking place there. After receiving my acceptance, I did more research into the school. What I found was not at all comforting. In addition to Upstate been placed on probation in 2012, there has been a considerable amount of ethical issues there. Former president David Smith was caught stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was convicted. Vice-president Steven Brady was convicted of stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was caught lying about his past. This corruption appears to continue: President Larraque-Arena resigned after being busted in yet another corruption scandal: paying the former hospital CEO $660,000 for doing no work.

I am thinking about turning down this acceptance; I don't know if this is a good enough reason or not. It seems as if Upstate is mired in corruption. However, my understanding is that turning down an MD acceptance for any reason is a massive black mark against you and may well keep you from a medical career for life. Is this at all a mitigating circumstance? I have always been and seek to continue to be a person of integrity; I hope that it is not too much to ask that the leaders of my medical school not be mired in a continued pattern of mismanagement and corruption. This was not a single, isolated instance of corruption, but a pattern of corruption at the highest ranks of Upstate leadership.

This is the only acceptance I have received.
Click to expand...
So you don’t want to go to a school because the people that did bad things were caught and held accountable?
 
samualjhatfield said:
So you don’t want to go to a school because the people that did bad things were caught and held accountable?
Click to expand...
Don't be purposefully obtuse. The "bad things" that OP mentioned are something to think about, its not a trivial matter, and most other medical schools don't have problems even close to that.. But if OP wants to be a doctor and this is their only acceptance, they should attend the school
 
One way to look at it is that at least now, everyone knows there will be eyes on everyone at that SUNY for the foreseeable future. SUNY upstate traditionally has been a good solid place to train before all this corruption, and is not likely to affect you in your day to day training at the school. If you like the curriculum and the feel of the school, you will do fine. If you are particularly worried about temporary things, you might want to consider deferring for a year. However, you must only defer for the year, do good stuff and come back when the politics at the higher levels are smoothed out a bit.

Keep in mind that the former DEAN of the medical school at USC was recently caught hanging around with a bunch of young meth addicts who confirmed the dean regularly partied with them. Just google "dean of USC medical school, meth addict, LA Times". There are photos of the meth addicted youth partying in his office with him, with the young wayward youths wearing his white coat, etc. He was only caught when a young woman with whom he was staying at a hotel overdosed and had to go to a local hospital. The real tragedy was that the higher ups at the university found out about all of this and removed him from the dean's role, while allowing him to continue to work as an ophthalmologist (eye SURGEON!!!) for at least another year until the LA Times story came out to the public. There are weirdos everywhere....

Meanwhile, for decades, the MD at the student gyn clinic at the same USC was reportedly abusing and harassing his young female patients for decades- despite complaints from nurses, he was allowed to continue to stay there and practice. Moreover, photos of young USC women were reportedly later found in the doc's storage container. So Imma gonna just say that USC has probably outdone SUNY upstate in terms of badness, but yet USC still got PLENTY of applications and will seat a predictably strong class.
 
Hmm. Sounds like the corruption's not a good enough reason to turn down the acceptance. And whether I like the curriculum and feel of the school or not doesn't matter: turn down an MD acceptance, and your goose is well and truly cooked in the future.

@gorowannabe, I gather what's going on at Upstate isn't terribly bad, and that the declined acceptance would indeed be a huge black mark on my application that I might be unable to recover from. Thanks for the honest advice - although there are some other individuals that are claiming that this is not a trivial matter. Could this reason be accepted by adcoms as a reason to turn down an acceptance, or would I truly be SoL?
 
Mt. Marcy said:
Hmm. Sounds like the corruption's not a good enough reason to turn down the acceptance. And whether I like the curriculum and feel of the school or not doesn't matter: turn down an MD acceptance, and your goose is well and truly cooked in the future.

@gorowannabe, I gather what's going on at Upstate isn't terribly bad, and that the declined acceptance would indeed be a huge black mark on my application that I might be unable to recover from. Thanks for the honest advice - although there are some other individuals that are claiming that this is not a trivial matter. Could this reason be accepted by adcoms as a reason to turn down an acceptance, or would I truly be SoL?
Click to expand...
Please note my word "deferral" - and only if you are extremely nervous about going now due to distractions at the higher level. Deferral means committing to going to SUNY Update, but asking admissions to allow you defer your start date until Summer 2020. You would not be able to apply to other schools "to see if you could get in somewhere better." But with lots of notice, many schools accept a deferral request...
 
Mt. Marcy said:
Hmm. Sounds like the corruption's not a good enough reason to turn down the acceptance. And whether I like the curriculum and feel of the school or not doesn't matter: turn down an MD acceptance, and your goose is well and truly cooked in the future.

@gorowannabe, I gather what's going on at Upstate isn't terribly bad, and that the declined acceptance would indeed be a huge black mark on my application that I might be unable to recover from. Thanks for the honest advice - although there are some other individuals that are claiming that this is not a trivial matter. Could this reason be accepted by adcoms as a reason to turn down an acceptance, or would I truly be SoL?
Click to expand...
LOL. Three crooks don't make a school.

And an accreditation issue in 2012 is seven years ago . That's like back in the Pleistocene.
 
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I fail to see how any of this will hinder your ability to understand how many chambers are in the heart, how drugs effect with human phsyiology and how you learn to suture, tie knots or deliver babies during clinicals. It's like saying I'm not going to put away money in an IRA because Bernie Maddoff stole money from people. You're literally screwing yourself over an unrelated issue.
 
Tangentially related: let this serve as a lesson to everyone to do their own due diligence looking up schools BEFORE you apply to them.

Edit: While this particular issue ended up not mattering in the end, it is a concern that OP could have avoided having by looking in to and questioning his initial school decisions.
 
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samualjhatfield said:
Tangentially related: let this serve as a lesson to everyone to do their own due diligence looking up schools BEFORE you apply to them.
Click to expand...

But if this doesn't matter at all to the students (which is what I've gathered from many comments here) - why should knowing this beforehand have changed OPs decision to apply?
 
Declining your acceptance in protest will not harm SUNY Upstate in the slightest.

It will harm you though, possibly irreparably.

As much as this corruption offends me - and it does - take another acceptance if you get one; otherwise, just hold your nose and attend.
 
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Sorry to hijack the thread but for clarification: If OP were to be accepted to another school, both being essentially equal in all respects - should this be a significant enough reason to choose the other school?
 
makemeadoctordoctordoctor said:
Sorry to hijack the thread but for clarification: If OP were to be accepted to another school, both being essentially equal in all respects - should this be a significant enough reason to choose the other school?
Click to expand...

Nothing in life is ever equal in all respects. But if the OP has that big of a moral issue with the first school and has an option for another place, then yes it'd be a good enough reason. That's the very definition of options.
 
makemeadoctordoctordoctor said:
Sorry to hijack the thread but for clarification: If OP were to be accepted to another school, both being essentially equal in all respects - should this be a significant enough reason to choose the other school?
Click to expand...
Only OP can answer that. For me, this is small potatoes. Penn State's parent body did far worse, and for MSUCOM, the jury is still out on how much they protected the evil Larry Nassar. Ditto USC
 
Mt. Marcy said:
I was accepted to SUNY Upstate; however, I've just found that there was considerable corruption taking place there. After receiving my acceptance, I did more research into the school. What I found was not at all comforting. In addition to Upstate been placed on probation in 2012, there has been a considerable amount of ethical issues there. Former president David Smith was caught stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was convicted. Vice-president Steven Brady was convicted of stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was caught lying about his past. This corruption appears to continue: President Larraque-Arena resigned after being busted in yet another corruption scandal: paying the former hospital CEO $660,000 for doing no work.

I am thinking about turning down this acceptance; I don't know if this is a good enough reason or not. It seems as if Upstate is mired in corruption. However, my understanding is that turning down an MD acceptance for any reason is a massive black mark against you and may well keep you from a medical career for life. Is this at all a mitigating circumstance? I have always been and seek to continue to be a person of integrity; I hope that it is not too much to ask that the leaders of my medical school not be mired in a continued pattern of mismanagement and corruption. This was not a single, isolated instance of corruption, but a pattern of corruption at the highest ranks of Upstate leadership.

This is the only acceptance I have received.
Click to expand...
Additionally, look up why upstate was placed on probation. All of these signs indicate a weak institution, and weak is a generous adjective.

Take the acceptance, hopefully you get another bite from another school OP.
 
Dr. Stalker said:
Additionally, look up why upstate was placed on probation. All of these signs indicate a weak institution, and weak is a generous adjective.

Take the acceptance, hopefully you get another bite from another school OP.
Click to expand...
I know probation is a scary word to pre-meds, but most probation issues I see from MD schools result from poor documentation of policies.

Probation =/= 'weak" or "About to close".

Baylor was on probation more recently.
 
Mt. Marcy said:
I was accepted to SUNY Upstate; however, I've just found that there was considerable corruption taking place there. After receiving my acceptance, I did more research into the school. What I found was not at all comforting. In addition to Upstate been placed on probation in 2012, there has been a considerable amount of ethical issues there. Former president David Smith was caught stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was convicted. Vice-president Steven Brady was convicted of stealing money from SUNY Upstate and was caught lying about his past. This corruption appears to continue: President Larraque-Arena resigned after being busted in yet another corruption scandal: paying the former hospital CEO $660,000 for doing no work.

I am thinking about turning down this acceptance; I don't know if this is a good enough reason or not. It seems as if Upstate is mired in corruption. However, my understanding is that turning down an MD acceptance for any reason is a massive black mark against you and may well keep you from a medical career for life. Is this at all a mitigating circumstance? I have always been and seek to continue to be a person of integrity; I hope that it is not too much to ask that the leaders of my medical school not be mired in a continued pattern of mismanagement and corruption. This was not a single, isolated instance of corruption, but a pattern of corruption at the highest ranks of Upstate leadership.

This is the only acceptance I have received.
Click to expand...

Goro said:
I know probation is a scary word to pre-meds, but most probation issues I see from MD schools result from poor documentation of policies.

Probation =/= 'weak" or "About to close".

Baylor was on probation more recently.
Click to expand...

Baylor and schools that protect rapist athletes or molester coaches deserve to be on probation.
 
Dr. Stalker said:
Baylor and schools that protect rapist athletes or molester coaches deserve to be on probation.
Click to expand...
And what exactly does the protection of undergraduate athletes by undergraduate fitness staff and undergraduate admissions staff have to do with the Medical school, medical admissions staff, and medical accreditation?

You are correct in that athletes by no means should have any protections - and no one should have any protections - for those sorts of atrocities. However, genuinely curious, what does that have to do with the medical school?
 
samualjhatfield said:
And what exactly does the protection of undergraduate athletes by undergraduate fitness staff and undergraduate admissions staff have to do with the Medical school, medical admissions staff, and medical accreditation?

You are correct in that athletes by no means should have any protections - and no one should have any protections - for those sorts of atrocities. However, genuinely curious, what does that have to do with the medical school?
Click to expand...
Its the fact that the same parent university condones this behavior.
 
Mt. Marcy said:
whether I like the curriculum and feel of the school or not doesn't matter: turn down an MD acceptance, and your goose is well and truly cooked in the future.
Click to expand...

If you disliked the school so much after the interview that you would not want to attend even if it were your only offer of admission, you should have withdrawn your application the next day, before an offer could even reach you. You didn't do that so, presumably, you wanted to be considered for admission. You've got your admission, now the ball is in your court.
 
The nays have it. The vote stands at 46-5 against. @Mt. Marcy: don't be a colossal fool. This is like running a race, doing OK but not as well as you'd like...and then shooting off your foot in hopes that you could Blade Runner your way to victory on a carbon-fiber prosthetic. Yes, it has been done before. People have done a lot of stupid stuff and succeeded. That doesn't make it any less of an exceedingly ill-advised and idiotic strategy.
 
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