URGENT: Can i apply before MCAT!?

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I am almost always an optimist and I never thought I would be encouraging others to not apply---but you'd be wasting your money man.

Trying to get your app set up while worrying about the MCAT in September? Not good. Take a breather, slam your MCAT in September, start some clinicals, start Skyrim, and you're good to go.
 
Jepstein30 said:
35+ and a 3.3 GPA is a 70% admittance rate.. I would take those odds :laugh:
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did you read OPs original post? they're basing the projected 35 on the fact that they're first diagnostic was a 25.
 
AshPreMed said:
This guy said I had 70% chance! Is that with clinical exp? whats without?
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This statistics only applies to cornell students, and I think all of them have some type of clinical experience. You should look for this chart offered by your school -_-....
 
AshPreMed said:
Ill be getting research in 4th year ! I can list that as in progress. See first post please again!
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Most people who are applying have long term commitments to research or clinical work. Keep that in mind.

You are really better off applying next year when you are a little bit more prepared.
 
AshPreMed said:
Ill be getting research in 4th year ! I can list that as in progress. See first post please again!
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are you for real or are you just pulling our legs here?
I think if you haven't even figured out how AMCAS or how application works by now, don't apply.... Take a year off... It's better not to waste 2K on applications anyways.
 
LaughingMan said:
I'm really starting to think this might be a troll. If it is--I was bested and 👍👍
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I have thought this the entire time. There is no way a person who claims they are American and have that poor of English. Or that they are applying to medical school and have zero knowledge of the process. OR!!! Get to applying and doesn't know about clinical experience or shadowing.

If not a troll, then they will be extremely depressed. If a troll, they are probably already depressed and that's why they are here.
 
3 things:

1. Breathe!!!

2. Don't apply if you aren't ready. You're only 20 bro. Also, a 25 on a MCAT diagnostic means absolutely nothing.

3. Use this year to get clinical experience.
 
AshPreMed said:
I organizing blood donations clinical exp? 😛

What if I do hours now? Really, the minimum of 30 or 50? Would those give me a good chance of applying now?
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OP, it's clear that you don't understand the admissions process, and it's sort of late in the game to be figuring it all out for this application cycle.

Here are some things that you should think about:

1. You don't have an MCAT score. Your one data point is a 25. Perhaps you will score 35, but there's no guarantee.
2. Your GPA is below average.
3. You do not have clinical experience, and you should not volunteer merely to check a box. Find something that will give you that experience, that will broaden your horizons a bit and will give you a sense of what medicine is about. You don't need a gazillion hours; volunteering once per week for a few hours over the next year would be fine.
4. You should shadow at least a couple of physicians for a few days each to see how they interact with patients and what their day-to-day job actually entails.
5. Have you written a personal statement? It's hard to back up any interest in medicine without #3 and #4. Some secondary essays will also give you trouble.
6. Have you thought about who will write your recommendations? Have you set up an Interfolio account and asked these people to write letters on your behalf while allowing them the 6-8 weeks of notice that is customary?
7. Have you taken all of the prereqs? Most of the prereqs are standard, but there is some variance by school. (For example, Ohio St. requires a semester of anatomy and one of biochemistry, whereas most schools do not.)

I really think that you would be better off applying next year. There is no rush, and in the meantime, you could do some necessary GPA repair, study for the MCAT on a more protracted timeline, and get some clinical exposure.

In the end, the decision is up to you. I wish you all the best.
 
There are many, many steps in the application process and all of them take different amounts of time to get through. I am going to assume you have not started anything at all.

To complete the "Primary", make an account here https://services.aamc.org/AMCAS2_2013/
1. You want to "Submit" your application ASAP to begin the 6+ week "Verification" process.
2. "Verification" - In order to start the verification process you need to have a completed application on the AMCAS2013 website and pressed the submit button. This process takes a really long time (6+ weeks)

3. Transcripts - You need these there before you can submit. My advice is to fill out the AMCAS TONIGHT and get the request form into the registrar. While the transcripts are in the mail system you can fill out the essays and activities.

4. Essays/Activities: You need to fill these out as quick as possible while your transcripts are in the mail system (1-2 weeks)

5. Recommendations: This step also takes forever and you are probably reallllllllllly going to piss off people if you don't have these yet. If your school has a health professions advisor attempt to get a "Letter Packet" assembled. In my case I had recs sent to the advisor, who then sent 1 letter packet to AMCAS. This can take 1-2+ months depending on how loved you are.
Conclusion: Though you can "Submit" your primary for verification without your letter packet being received yet... you need to get this started now.

6. MCAT: Goodluck, you should try to aim for a 33+. I assume you have been studying but to maximize your yield make sure you practice a lot. Test timing seems to be a big limiting factor for a lot of students, don't obsess about not knowing the right answer (looking at your SAT II you look like a good test taker). As said above, you can "Submit" your primary for verification without the MCAT.

Overall Conclusion: Yeah it is pretty late.... and its a bit of a hail mary. If you have cash to blow it is always good practice to just go through the whole cycle. There is absolutely no shame in being a reapplicant, a lot of your peers will have to go through this twice. This is not a trivial process at all so don't give up... if you really want this you won't.
 
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AshPremed,

You should apply to the OMSAS cycle because it starts later this year, so you have time to prepare for that. I assume this is in your interest since you live in Toronto. I agree with others that the quality of your expositions will suffer because you're going to feel rushed.

If OMSAS does not work out, you should move onto AMCAS for 2014 entry. Others have already provided helpful information. Just remember that AMCAS opens in early June and so you should try to have everything ready to submit within the first few days so you're giving yourself the best shot. With the time that you have now, if you are willing to choose this path, you should engage in meaningful clinical experiences.
 
Hey guys,

Thank you very much for your help. I am extremely grateful. You are helping me set my future, and are extremely kind. I really appreciate it.

Im not trolling. Im just talking very quick and not caring about grammar and stuff. Just delivering the point efficiently.

I DO want to hear the truth, i dont care how mean or nice it is, its only nice if it is complete.

Do they look at class averages? To see that my 19th uni in the world kills top undergrads with a 2.5 average GPA and that at that uni a 3.2 is a real distinction? My last year was a 3.75 can that weight more?

Im interested in researching as an MD in molecular biology. Is it better to do an SMP in USA or an MSc at one of the leading unis in the world (Toronto)? Postbacc classes without program better?

So should I not apply to any university at all. If I apply to ONE university, would all the rest consider me a reapplicant?

Sorry for coming across as someone whos yelling angry, i wasnt angry, just yelling like a firefighter (in a hurry). That doesnt show in text.

Paratik: I heard that being a reapplicant means you get questioned a lot more and its tougher because you're a sloppy second (heard this on the forum). Yet abot 50% of the members say its fine, and some others say its good because it shows persistence and determination. Who's probably correct? What is the likely conclusion!? If I plan on doing a Masters and volunteering during my period of 2 years afterwards. Isn't that a damn good improvement? Or Is being a sloppy second still bad? I don't get this, dont people often become reapplicants? :S I never heard this before. I'm not sure if I should apply to USA.

Again for the 3rd time: Does applying to one university make me a reapplicant at all other universities too the next year?

To leofet: Do I need clinical experience for Canadian schools just as much as I need them for American schools? Can I make up the clinical experiences this summer? Do canadians not like reapplicants?
 
AshPreMed said:
Hey guys,

Thank you very much for your help. I am extremely grateful. You are helping me set my future, and are extremely kind. I really appreciate it.

Im not trolling. Im just talking very quick and not caring about grammar and stuff. Just delivering the point efficiently.

I want to hear the TRUTH, i dont care how mean or nice it is, its only nice if it is complete.

Do they look at class averages? To see that my 19th uni in the world kills top undergrads with a 2.5 average GPA and that at that uni a 3.2 is a real distinction? My last year was a 3.75 can that weight more?

Im interested in researching as an MD in molecular biology. Is it better to do an SMP in USA or an MSc at one of the leading unis in the world (Toronto)? Postbacc classes without program better?

So should I not apply to any university at all. If I apply to ONE university, would all the rest consider me a reapplicant?

Sorry for coming across as someone whos yelling angry, i wasnt angry, just yelling like a firefighter (in a hurry). That doesnt show in text.

Paratik: I heard that being a reapplicant means you get questioned a lot more and its tougher because you're a sloppy second (heard this on the forum). Yet abot 50% of the members say its fine, and some others say its good because it shows persistence and determination. Who's probably correct? What is the likely conclusion!? If I plan on doing a Masters and volunteering during my period of 2 years afterwards. Isn't that a damn good improvement? Or Is being a sloppy second still bad? I don't get this, dont people often become reapplicants? :S I never heard this before. I'm not sure if I should apply to USA.

Again for the 3rd time: Does applying to one university make me a reapplicant at all other universities too the next year?

To leofet: Do I need clinical experience for Canadian schools just as much as I need them for American schools? Can I make up the clinical experiences this summer? Do canadians not like reapplicants?
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No one cares where you went to undergrad. You need to get over this whole 3.2 thing BUT I went to X school. Everyone has some stupid excuse to justify their sub-par gpa. A 3.2 will keep you out of pretty much every MD school unless you have a stellar MCAT and rest of the application.
 
But someone earlier said that Cornell gets an advantage or something? Was that only at their university?
If all American schools give them advantages, it is only fair that my university is treated the same. My university is one of the best, the students are competitive, and its deflation is greater than Cornell, let alone most other schools. It's not a "stupid excuse". The class average is kept at 2.5.
 
Paratik: I heard that being a reapplicant means you get questioned a lot more and its tougher because you're a sloppy second (heard this on the forum). Yet abot 50% of the members say its fine, and some others say its good because it shows persistence and determination. Who's probably correct? What is the likely conclusion!? If I plan on doing a Masters and volunteering during my period of 2 years afterwards. Isn't that a damn good improvement? Or Is being a sloppy second still bad? I don't get this, dont people often become reapplicants? :S I never heard this before. I'm not sure if I should apply to USA.
Click to expand...

Reapplicants and sloppy seconds:
- Yes, many people have to reapply and do get in the 2nd time around.. or 3rd or 4th. Most of the kids who apply in the summer before senior year of undergrad will not get into med school. It's nice to be first in everything but when you get older you'll realize you'll take whatever you can get, even sloppy seconds. Med schools prefer people who are persistent and likely to succeed. Being on this forum already indicates you really want to succeed the first time around, but the reality is that many people do not.
- In terms of extra stuff, there will be extra essays to describe your extra time spent.
- You are only a reapplicant at schools you previously applied to. I do not know what happens to reapplicants who apply to a school they did not previously apply to, though they sometimes have a 2ndary essay that asks if you applied before and what you did to improve.

M.S. Plan:
An M.S. costs a lot and personally I think 2 years is a really big investment to make since it will not get you extra dollars unless it's a MPH and you end up doing healthcare consulting in the US (I know nothing about Canadian consulting). You can get a lot done in 1 year if you hunker down and get some solid opportunities. For volunteering you will need a bit of clinical stuff and a story. But overall I think your volunteering is quite good and you are active in the community.
 
AshPreMed said:
But someone earlier said that Cornell gets an advantage or something? Was that only at their university?
If all American schools give them advantages, it is only fair that my university is treated the same. My university is one of the best and the students are competitive.
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Yes, medical schools will let you in from your specific undergrad, even if you got a 1.0 GPA. Your school is da bomb, bro. What can we say? We're stupefied by how awesome your undergrad is.
 
You're exaggerating, tiedyedog. My school is very good (19th). I don't know if you've heard of it or not, maybe because it's not in your country so its not on the public's tongue. How can a high level of admitted students, a pathetically low class average, and a top university not scream grade deflation? Why is my uni being treated on separate criteria than Cornell (the popular one)?
 
AshPreMed said:
But someone earlier said that Cornell gets an advantage or something? Was that only at their university?
If all American schools give them advantages, it is only fair that my university is treated the same. My university is one of the best, the students are competitive, and its deflation is greater than Cornell, let alone most other schools. It's not a "stupid excuse". The class average is kept at 2.5.
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unfortunately, a 3.6 gpa from a school you've never heard of in your life is better than a 3.2 at your school, cornell, or harvard for that matter ... you will not be given any special consideration whatsoever... the sooner you realize that the sooner you'll be able to work on the flaw.
 
AshPreMed said:
You're exaggerating, tiedyedog. My school is very good (19th). I don't know if you've heard of it or not, maybe because it's not in your country so its not on the public's tongue. How can a high level of admitted students, a pathetically low class average, and a top university not scream grade deflation? Why is my uni being treated on separate criteria than Cornell (the popular one)?
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lol fyi you probably lost the respect of everyone in this thread with that post. i would consider doing your own research because no one will give you serious advice on here anymore
 
AshPreMed said:
You're exaggerating, tiedyedog. My school is very good (19th). I don't know if you've heard of it or not, maybe because it's not in your country so its not on the public's tongue. How can a high level of admitted students, a pathetically low class average, and a top university not scream grade deflation? Why is my uni being treated on separate criteria than Cornell (the popular one)?
Click to expand...

u keep saying your university is the 19th, where are you pulling this number from?
 
1289 said:
lol fyi you probably lost the respect of everyone in this thread with that post. i would consider doing your own research because no one will give you serious advice on here anymore
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:bow::bow::bow:
 
AshPreMed said:
This guy said I had 70% chance! Is that with clinical exp? whats without?
Click to expand...

70% chance is assuming you get >35 on your MCAT. And since a huge majority of applicants have at least some clinical experience, I would assume that's 70% WITH clinical experience. Like others have said, it's best if you just apply next cycle after you do some shadowing and some volunteering at a hospital or w/e.
 
American Adcoms aren't aware of the top 20 universities in the world? To be honest, I'm not sure... a person I spoke to on the phone asked if the University of Toronto was an accredited one... -.- lol.

If I do an MSc, won't that greatly increase my chances of getting an MD/PhD? And, on a side, don't MD/PhDs get paid more if they're researching on the side?

So, overall, is my volunteer experience good enough if it is without clinical experience?
 
iforget2 said:
70% chance is assuming you get >35 on your MCAT. And since a huge majority of applicants have at least some clinical experience, I would assume that's 70% WITH clinical experience. Like others have said, it's best if you just apply next cycle after you do some shadowing and some volunteering at a hospital or w/e.
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This man, listen to this.

Add in the fact: Cornell is a big name in the states. Hardly anyone knows u of toronto down here.

Stop asking questions and do research. I am no longer fueling this thread. good luck, peace.
 
AshPreMed said:
American Adcoms aren't aware of the top 20 universities in the world? To be honest, I'm not sure... a person I spoke to on the phone asked if the University of Toronto was an accredited one... -.- lol.

If I do an MSc, won't that greatly increase my chances of getting an MD/PhD? And, on a side, don't MD/PhDs get paid more if they're researching on the side?

So, overall, is my volunteer experience good enough if it is without clinical experience?
Click to expand...

Who decided on the list of the top 20 universities? Who ranked them, Canada?
 
AshPreMed said:
American Adcoms aren't aware of the top 20 universities in the world? To be honest, I'm not sure... a person I spoke to on the phone asked if the University of Toronto was an accredited one... -.- lol.

If I do an MSc, won't that greatly increase my chances of getting an MD/PhD? And, on a side, don't MD/PhDs get paid more if they're researching on the side?

So, overall, is my volunteer experience good enough if it is without clinical experience?
Click to expand...

just about everything in that statement is completely false ... you seriously need to do some research ... you will be the laughingstock of everyone if you go into an interview with that attitude and these delusional preconceived thoughts.

- an MSc does not increase MD/PhD chances
- MD/PhDs actually earn less than just "MDs"
- you need extensive research and a strong clinical background to get accepted to an MD/PhD program
- MD/PhD applicants are VERY competitive (i.e. 3.8+ gpas and 36+ MCATs on average)
 
why are you even taking the mcat? after attending toronto it should be evident to adcoms that you are a brilliant prodigy. no standardized tests needed.
 
University of Toronto, ranked 19th in the world by Times Higher Education (a credible publisher): http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html Please don't assume things because you haven't heard of them... Just to let you know, UofT is ranked higher than Cornell.

Extra info:
http://news.utoronto.ca/u-t-1-canada-16th-globally-survey-world-academic-leaders

I haven't seen contradicting information from another credible source. Furthermore, here's a review article: http://discover.utoronto.ca/legacy/rankings

I was only asking to be considered equally to Cornell if it is considered on special criteria. Class averages should be taken into account. I've seen far too many people with low high school marks get higher marks at another university (known for lower difficulty) while usually playing around. At UofT, you're in as much a meat grinder as Cornell. I do not see a reason for you to be offended.
 
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AshPreMed said:
University of Toronto, ranked 19th in the world by Times Higher Education (a credible publisher): http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html Hurt your ignorance?

Extra info:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...top-20-best-universities-world-204927057.html

I haven't seen contradicting information from another credible source. Furthermore, here's a review article: http://discover.utoronto.ca/legacy/rankings

I was only asking to be considered equally to Cornell if it is considered. Class averages should be taken into account. I've seen far too many people with low high school marks get higher marks at another university (known for lower difficulty) while playing around most often. At UofT, you're in as much a meat grinder as Cornell. I do not see a reason for you to be offended.
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lol. cool story bro. my university is ranked 27th according to that. were both like, super smart.
 
AshPreMed said:
University of Toronto, ranked 19th in the world by Times Higher Education (a credible company): http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html

Extra info:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...top-20-best-universities-world-204927057.html

I haven't seen contradicting information from another credible source. Furthermore, here's a review article: http://discover.utoronto.ca/legacy/rankings

I was only asking to be considered equally to Cornell if it is considered. Class averages should be taken into account. I've seen far too many people with low high school marks get higher marks at another university (known for lower difficulty) while playing around most often. At UofT, you're in as much a meat grinder as Cornell. I do not see a reason for you to be offended.
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I think you are missing the point.


A 4.0 from the University of Not Even Ranked is better than a 3.3 from Starfleet Academy
 
Yes. Ranking only means the student standard is good since its competitive to get into. THATS WHY a LOW AVERAGE GPA means GRADE DEFLATION!
 
AshPreMed said:
University of Toronto, ranked 19th in the world by Times Higher Education (a credible publisher): http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html Please don't assume things because you haven't heard of them...

Extra info:
http://news.utoronto.ca/u-t-1-canada-16th-globally-survey-world-academic-leaders

I haven't seen contradicting information from another credible source. Furthermore, here's a review article: http://discover.utoronto.ca/legacy/rankings

I was only asking to be considered equally to Cornell if it is considered on special criteria. Class averages should be taken into account. I've seen far too many people with low high school marks get higher marks at another university (known for lower difficulty) while playing around most often. At UofT, you're in as much a meat grinder as Cornell. I do not see a reason for you to be offended.
Click to expand...

I'm saying, you keep emphasizing it's 19, like that school decides where you're going to go to med school. It doesn't matter that much which school you go to, even for Cornell, if you don't have anything higher than 35 on MCAT, your admission at 3.3 is low even WITH clinical experience.
 
AshPreMed said:
But someone earlier said that Cornell gets an advantage or something? Was that only at their university?
If all American schools give them advantages, it is only fair that my university is treated the same. My university is one of the best, the students are competitive, and its deflation is greater than Cornell, let alone most other schools. It's not a "stupid excuse". The class average is kept at 2.5.
Click to expand...

Any excuse is a stupid excuse...and you won't get in to a US MD school with a 3.2 You can pull all the websites you want, that fact will not change. Now you're just pissing people off and are about to get called a troll. Don't ask for advice and then argue against what everyone says.
 
Me seeing the title: Sigh, this question again. :lame:
Me reading the thread: :whoa:

This is what happens when you give someone adderall and the internet. :corny:
 
Okay. Thanks for your help, everyone. Really. I really appreciate your help. You have all helped set me on the right path and cleared up a lot of misconceptions that I heard from other places. Thank you 🙂.

I was only pointing out that it was a good university so that you guys wont think the students are just of poor quality because there are schools with low GPAs because of poor quality students.

I can get in with a 3.2, right, if my last 2 years were >3.75 and have clinical experience? So, in the end, to finally end this amazing discussion lol, I should not apply to ANY medical school this summer but rather wait one year and get clinical experience while pursuing a Special Master's Program during the interview's year?

I truly apologize for any inconvenience that this has caused. Thank you all very much for your help and patience. You are all too kind.
 
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Ash, I think you should be less concerned about statistics and undergraduate institution. OMSAS schools care as much about clinical experience as AMCAS schools do.

I think your major concern is that you don't know whether medicine is right for you without having had clinical experiences. You really need to show that you know what you're getting into.

To give Ash some support, University of Toronto IS a good school. I know this because I'm from Toronto (but go to undergrad in the states). I know plenty of American undergraduates vie for a spot at U of T's medical school (especially Canadians studying in the states). Anyway, Ash, don't get caught up in this "Cornell advantage" business.
 
Leofet said:
Ash, I think you should be less concerned about statistics and undergraduate institution. OMSAS schools care as much about clinical experience as AMCAS schools do.

I think your major concern is that you don't know whether medicine is right for you without having had clinical experiences. You really need to show that you know what you're getting into.

To give Ash some support, University of Toronto IS a good school. I know this because I'm from Toronto (but go to undergrad in the states). I know plenty of American undergraduates vie for a spot at U of T's medical school (especially Canadians studying in the states). Anyway, Ash, don't get caught up in this "Cornell advantage" business.
Click to expand...

I pulled it up from google, it is widely available.
I'm never said there is a Cornell advantage, please read what I said when I brought up that chart. My point for showing the chart was simply to show that EVEN for an institution well known for grade deflation, such as U of Toronto or Cornell, getting into med school is HARD with 3.3 gpa and clinical experience.
 
Luvahgilahsa said:
I pulled it up from google, it is widely available.
I'm never said there is a Cornell advantage, please read what I said when I brought up that chart. My point for showing the chart was simply to show that EVEN for an institution well known for grade deflation, getting into med school is HARD with 3.3 gpa and clinical experience.
Click to expand...

You misconstrued my tone. I wasn't quoting you when I referred to Cornell advantage.
 
AshPreMed said:
American Adcoms aren't aware of the top 20 universities in the world? To be honest, I'm not sure... a person I spoke to on the phone asked if the University of Toronto was an accredited one... -.- lol.

If I do an MSc, won't that greatly increase my chances of getting an MD/PhD? And, on a side, don't MD/PhDs get paid more if they're researching on the side?

So, overall, is my volunteer experience good enough if it is without clinical experience?
Click to expand...
if your school only admits the smartest people, then you need to rack your super brain a little harder. You aren't thinking about why schools even want to see clinical experience in the first place. There is a checklist of things that one should have of they are actually expecting an acceptance but you can't blatantly add stuff last minute and expect it to hold much water. Clinical experience is important so that schools can expect that you have at least some idea as what a doctor does and that you are willing to spend time working with patients. This is why people prefer to see long term commitment to this stuff rather than just 50 hours squeezed in before the application is submitted (which is very little compared to most applicants).

Anyone can go on and on about how much they love medicine and how much they want to be a doctor on their personal statements and interviews but you have to have something to back that up. If I'm an interviewer and someone is giving me that spiel, my first question is "well, if you are so interested in medicine, why havent you tried to invest any time in the field like the other 5000 applicants to our school have?"
 
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I read this whole thread and I just want to voice a few things:
• Cornell students probably only have an advantage in that they have excellent research and clinical opportunities. Which undergrad you went to is on the very bottom of the consideration list after your age?
• You are NOT confident you will get a 30+. I have spent 2 years being active in the MCAT forum and advising students on MCAT. You don't know anything really until you get your real score back.
• If you do a special masters program, which is probably a good idea, you need a 3.7+. This will not be easy at all. Also, an MSci probably won't help you much without med school integration.
• Clinical experience should not be seen as a minimum. You're competing with people who have been doing 2-8 hours per week at a hospital or clinic, but for 1-4 years.
• No one can say you'll get in unless they're on the adcom. We all want to believe that there's a lock that we can fit our accomplishments into like a key and the door to medical school will open to us. The reality is that it is more like a bouncer who can see we're obviously trying to talk our way in, but if we are convincing enough, he may let it slide.

I recommend taking a year and doing as much clinical work as you can. There is no quantifiable amount. Just do it. Study for the MCAT and apply early. You'll be in a much better position than the others who are in the position you are currently in, but decide to apply.
 
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