urinalysis analysis

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HoosierdaddyO

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So I'm sitting here on one of the nicest overnight shifts I've had in longest time (hence the reason I'm able to post this lol), and I've had some funky UA results come back on me tonight... ie positive nitirites but all else negative, and are you treating negative UA's but they are symptomatic??? Trying to see what other experienced ER docs use as their guidelines for interpreting and treating the UA's.
 
People who have hx of UTI's and it feels like to them that they have one has a higher PPV than a UA. Nitrites are specific for nitrate reducing bacteria though.
 
I honestly try to avoid even sending UA’s for routine uncomplicated dysuria (for women). If a woman thinks she has one...then I’ll write the script for macrobid or whatever and I’m off to the next room. 1 min of time!!!

If there is something goofy about the story...like they have other symptoms or just finished a course of appropriate abx and still have symptoms, then I’ll send one and probe a little further.

I’ve seen 100% neg UA result in a positive UCx.
 
So I'm sitting here on one of the nicest overnight shifts I've had in longest time (hence the reason I'm able to post this lol), and I've had some funky UA results come back on me tonight... ie positive nitirites but all else negative, and are you treating negative UA's but they are symptomatic??? Trying to see what other experienced ER docs use as their guidelines for interpreting and treating the UA's.

Depends on the patient. Also depends on the test. Was it just the dipstick or was it sent for microscopy? If it's nitrites positive, microscopy was done and shows <5 or so WBCs/hpf, then it's pretty negative. Though the NPV is still not 100%, but close, probably around 95% (depending on your population). If microscopy was not done (some labs will only do it if you order it separately or if the urine dipstick is positive) then the NPV drops further. Assuming a sensitivity of 95% and specificity of 40% based on brief search of literature and my experience (which will vary a bit based on population and lab) gives you a negative likelihood ration of 0.13. At that point you have a test that should significantly lower your pretest probability. Now the question is what to do with that.

If it's a woman with typical UTI symptoms, who has had a UTI before, who says her current symptoms are typical of her previous UTI, I'd say the pretest probability is probably around 80%*. That means even with a great negative test with a NLR of 0.13, the post test probability is still 34%. So I would treat that. At that point it makes you wonder if you even needed to send the UA. I would not send it typically, unless I have reason to send a culture as well (previous resistant UTIs, recurrent UTI, etc).

If it's a man who has burning on urination, has not had a UTI before, and it's unclear why he would have a UTI, then the pre test probability in my guesstimate is at most 20% of him having a UTI. That means the post test probability is 3%. I'd probably not treat that. Instead I would send a culture, as well as a urine probe for gonorrhea and chlamydia and have him follow up for test results.

Obviously I am not busting out likelihood ratio calculators on every shift, but it helps to think through the reasoning behind your practice this way when you get a chance.

Also this is one of those things where it helps to keep track of patients you saw and follow them up to see what percent of your patients that you treated or did not treat turned out to have a positive or negative culture. It definitely helps you feel more comfortable with your practice and helps interpret lab tests in your patient population more intelligently.

*Assigning a pretest probability is the hardest part of EBM, and requires a fair amount of voodoo so if you disagree, plug in your own numbers on this calculator: Sensitivity and Specificity, Likelihood Ratio Calculators - GetTheDiagnosis.org
 
Positive nitrites are 97% specific to nitrate-reducing pyuria. Most commonly it's a gram-negative organism (E coli usually) and nitrites are only positive from bacteria when CFU's are >10k. (J Clin Microbiol. 1999;37(9):3051–3052.) You can get a false positive if the dipsticks have been exposed to air (i.e., the cap wasn't on the container) for >1 week.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people have a negative UA except for a positive nitrite, weren't treated, and who returned with significant UTI's/pyelo/sepsis. Some of these have made it to QA committees for poor outcomes.

If you see positive nitrites, you should give careful thought about your management of the patient. I would suggest treating them or at the very least sending a urine culture. Most docs will advocate treating isolated positive nitrites.
 
So I'm sitting here on one of the nicest overnight shifts I've had in longest time (hence the reason I'm able to post this lol), and I've had some funky UA results come back on me tonight... ie positive nitirites but all else negative, and are you treating negative UA's but they are symptomatic??? Trying to see what other experienced ER docs use as their guidelines for interpreting and treating the UA's.
Positive nitrite = abx.
Weakly positive, e.g. trace LE and maybe 5 WBC in the UA and pt has sx = Abx
Completely negative UA but has sx = send a UCx and tell them to take Azo.
 
I have been thinking about this for a while, so it's a good coincidence that this thread was posted. What about the "symptomatic dysuria", not dehydrated, with micro that shows WBC and bacteria, LE positive, nitrite negative, and the urine culture grows bubkus? Once, maybe, but I've seen it 3 times in 2 years, and with different techs in the lab. I treated all of them, so no bounce backs, but I was just surprised with a negative cx.
 
I honestly try to avoid even sending UA’s for routine uncomplicated dysuria (for women). If a woman thinks she has one...then I’ll write the script for macrobid or whatever and I’m off to the next room. 1 min of time!!!

If there is something goofy about the story...like they have other symptoms or just finished a course of appropriate abx and still have symptoms, then I’ll send one and probe a little further.

I’ve seen 100% neg UA result in a positive UCx.

I treat, but I always send a culture (resistance) and I have a low threshold for STD testing, too.
 
I have been thinking about this for a while, so it's a good coincidence that this thread was posted. What about the "symptomatic dysuria", not dehydrated, with micro that shows WBC and bacteria, LE positive, nitrite negative, and the urine culture grows bubkus? Once, maybe, but I've seen it 3 times in 2 years, and with different techs in the lab. I treated all of them, so no bounce backs, but I was just surprised with a negative cx.
Sorry @Apollyon I didn't mean to just quote you. At first I was only replying to you but then realized this could be helpful for everyone reading. Sorry about the block of text; hopefully this is helpful

As one of those techs performing, i will say it depends on how they're performing the urinalyses. On an automated instrument, it's fairly easy for the analyzer to call something bacteria when it's not, budding yeast when it's amorphous crystals, [unclassified] crystals when its RBCs, RBCs when it's calcium oxalate crystals, etc. Once this happens and the techs forget to reclassify the misidentified organism/cell/whatever, you'll end up receiving false positive/negative results, unless they modify the result and do a corrected report. The analyzer isn't too accurate when it comes to identifying and quantifying gram positive/negative (especially negative) cocci since they're smaller in size. At that point, the tech can either centrifuge and pour off the supernatant and perform the microscopy with the pellet or estimate the quantity of bacteria with relation to the other photographs on the analyzer. Most [busy] labs use an automated instrument for urine chemistries and microscopy. Smaller standalone EDs and the like will do urinalyses manually. I have seen positive nitrites with negative urine and negative nitrites with 4+ bacteria; I wish I could explain how that happens.

Another thing to add: Depending on the setup of the lab, some labs will ONLY do microscopies on urine specimens that are positive for leukocyte esterase, hemoglobin, nitrites and protein. If these parameters are negative, a urine microscopy will NOT be performed. On the opposite side of the spectrum, if the urine chemistries are stone cold negative, the analyzer/lab will still perform a microscopy.

This is a really good thread to read as a fellow med lab tech. Thank you for the opportunity!
 
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Had one the other day with +leuk esterase, +nitrites, +WBC clumps result in a negative culture. Final dx radiation cystitis.
 

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