URM acceptance rates - confused

[Rafa]

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Oh, and I thought MLK advocated for a time when people would be judged by their character and *NOT* by the color of their skin. We really need some way of judging applications without race or gender on them. Yeah, I know... but I have a dream.

It's always interesting how people vehemently against AA try to use MLK to support their arguments. 🙄

Particularly when the man was about as strong a supporter of AA as anyone alive in the '60s.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/mlk3.html

The last time I encountered this was on the blog of a nearly plainly racist Representative (I believe he's from Indiana) who went about quoting MLK's "I have a dream" speech, and distorting it as much as possible to imply he was anti-AA. He got torn a new a$$hole on his blog by non-bigots, and he promptly disallowed comments on his blog - I kid you not. 🙂

This isn't good company to keep.

 

[Brainsucker]

PS Where's the Kool-Aid?

 

[eastsidaz]

It's always interesting how people vehemently against AA try to use MLK to support their arguments. 🙄

Particularly when the man was about as strong a supporter of AA as anyone alive in the '60s.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/mlk3.html

The last time I encountered this was on the blog of a nearly plainly racist Representative (I believe he's from Indiana) who went about quoting MLK's "I have a dream" speech, and distorting it as much as possible to imply he was anti-AA. He got torn a new a$$hole on his blog by non-bigots, and he promptly disallowed comments on his blog - I kid you not. 🙂

This isn't good company to keep.

That's fair, but has anyone in this country ever thought that maybe Martin Luther King was human and not a deity? You can take what he said about judging by the content of character and extrapolate that to support your own point about AA, even if the man himself was an outspoken supporter of AA (which he was).

The fact that we gave the man a national holiday (after intense pressure from interest groups--even today, those who voted against it on economic grounds are branded bigots) shouldn't mean we can't critique or disagree with his ideas.

 

[Vizsla]

It's always interesting how people vehemently against AA try to use MLK to support their arguments. 🙄

Particularly when the man was about as strong a supporter of AA as anyone alive in the '60s.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/mlk3.html

The last time I encountered this was on the blog of a nearly plainly racist Representative (I believe he's from Indiana) who went about quoting MLK's "I have a dream" speech, and distorting it as much as possible to imply he was anti-AA. He got torn a new a$$hole on his blog by non-bigots, and he promptly disallowed comments on his blog - I kid you not. 🙂

This isn't good company to keep.

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by attributes other than skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

 

[autoimmunity]

It's always interesting how people vehemently against AA try to use MLK to support their arguments. 🙄

Particularly when the man was about as strong a supporter of AA as anyone alive in the '60s.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/mlk3.html

The last time I encountered this was on the blog of a nearly plainly racist Representative (I believe he's from Indiana) who went about quoting MLK's "I have a dream" speech, and distorting it as much as possible to imply he was anti-AA. He got torn a new a$$hole on his blog by non-bigots, and he promptly disallowed comments on his blog - I kid you not. 🙂

This isn't good company to keep.

I think that you are taking this to an extreme. As far as I know, nobody in this thread has VEHEMENTLY contested AA. I believe the general sentiment here is that it's somewhat flawed in its usage. Understand, in case you haven't, that criticism of its usage does not equate to criticism of its greater purpose of leveling the playing field.

 

[riceman04]

It would have to start in middle school or elementary, because the differential in education is seen that early. As I have observed myself in school transferring from a less afluent, mostly URM middle school, to a more affluent mostly white middle school- the difference is the amount of money and resources that a school has. In other words it is not really race, it is an economic issue. How to solve it?

Take property taxes from the more affluent neighborhoods, and spend it in the less affluent neighborhoods. Oh, but then they would scream bloody murder.

So it is cheaper, and you have less people angry, if you wait until the senior year of high school or college, and give those who had less advantage, a chance to attempt to catch up by going to better schools.

And don't envy us - it is hard at any level to have to perform at a level beyond which you have been educated in the past. It hurt like a mother for me in the eighth grade. However, many of us are somehow able to catch up and get ahead of the class, I did.

I cannot agree with you more. I started out in a mjority afr. amer. elementary school that was part of the Inglewood School District (Inglewood is the hood for those of you who dont know). This school sucked and was considered the best elementary school in the district. I was extremely easy to perform well in those classes b/c nothing was challenging. Show up...you get an A. I lived in a great neighborhood (this is where my elementary school was located)...known as the Black Beverly Hills (saying this to prove a point). Despite the school's surroundings, however, the quality of education was horrible due to the fact that it belonged to one of the worst (and very corrupt) school systems in southern california. Luckily I grew up with pretty well off parents. They were able to send me to expensive an private school (started in 7th grade) where teachers challenged us both to the fullest extent. My first year there was the hardest year ever b/c I realized just how far behind I was in my school work and study skills (except in mathematics...and that was only b/c I took Kumon on the side of school). My classmates were already learning how to write organized papers and write ups while I was still trying to figure out how to write coherently. I know that the only way I survived that transition (and eventually caught up and then excelled) was through my personal refusal to let everyone else leave me in the dust. Many minorites are not as lucky as I was and did not have the proper guidance (my mom knew of the situation with the public educational system in Los Angeles, Inglewood, Compton, etc...and finally convinced my dad to agree with her in sending me to private school).

One more thing: I honestly believe that my test taking skills suffered b/c of my early years. I know that I have to work much harder to do as well as many of you...It took 5 tries for me to earn a competitive score on the SAT (and I started taking the exam in 9th grade b/c my mom knew that I have a standardized test taking problem).

I work hard and will continue to do so! However, I also know that I am one of the lucky ones!

Ok I am back to just observing now!
cya

 

[eastsidaz]

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by character not skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

Exactly. What I don't understand is why there isn't a consensus in support of this. Doing it based on socioeconomic status would solve the same problem in the same way, without inflamming racial tensions and opening the policy to charges of discrimination. It would also make it seem like we were acting to create an equal America that could, ultimately, operate as a true meritocracy, rather than just setting up a policy to assuage our collective white guilt.

 

[ShyRem]

I actually have a very serious question about AA and med school admissions. (sorry). How can people be disadvantaged if they get into college and take the very same classes, get tutor access to help them, take the very same tests and exams, have the same research opportunities and clinical opportunities at college that the other folks have? I agree there are definitely problems with folks from poorer neighborhoods getting into college (whether they be black or white, a poor neighborhood does not generally provide the same playing field to get into college). However, once a poor neighborhood educated person gets into college with the rich neighborhood educated person and they take classes sitting next to each other, where's the disadvantage in education anymore? And where's the fairness if the rich neighborhood person is black and the poor neighborhood person is white and the black one gets a boost for being URM?

For the sake of argument, let's say a poor-neighborhood student doesn't have good study skills. SOOOO let's throw in a student with a learning disability. They certainly don't have good study skills either. But there are free tutors to help both students succeed. Yet they aren't treated equally at all when it comes to med school admissions.

I can see the possible value of AA for getting into a decent college. However, once there everyone is on the same level - they have equal access to classes, tutors, computer labs, food, housing, etc. Shouldn't applicants be judged on their merits after equal educational opportunities of college?

 

[riceman04]

And tell me why medical school acceptees have to mirror society's make-up? Really, I'd like to understand this argument because I think it's just absolutely bogus. And it's funny because it's always quoted as a reason why we need AA.

If you want to say, "Oh, they go back to their communities to practice," I find that difficult to believe.

b/c people like you wont go into those communities

he swings.....homerun!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KidCapri]

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by character not skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

The fact is, at least in the southern parts of the U.S. where I have lived, that discrimination on the basis of skin color still exists.

When the day comes that all peoples in the U.S. in all situations are judged by character and not by skin color, there will not be any need for AA.

Unfortunately, that day has not come in Tennessee or Alabama.

 

[Rafa]

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by attributes other than skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

It's cherry-picking, and deliberately miscontruing his ideals to suit your own, while cowering behind the "MLK himself said it!" defense. If you'd like to adopt someone's philosophies, take the time to actually investigate the person's stance on said philosophy, instead of accepting the 30 second sound-bite.

That said, I've got to actually do some work, so I might be off for tonight. But y'all enjoy the evening. 🙂

 

[riceman04]

Exactly. What I don't understand is why there isn't a consensus in support of this. Doing it based on socioeconomic status would solve the same problem in the same way, without inflamming racial tensions and opening the policy to charges of discrimination. It would also make it seem like we were acting to create an equal America that could, ultimately, operate as a true meritocracy, rather than just setting up a policy to assuage our collective white guilt.

swing......aaannnd a miss!!!!
strike:1

 

[ShyRem]

I am both nontrad and from a relatively small school. Actually nontrad is looked on as a way of diversifying the class as far as I have seen on SDN.

Being from a small school? Definite disadvantage. The playing field is not level.

So I guess you have a small point there, except for the fact that the small school was chosen by the person who went there unlike race or socio economic background.

Maybe not chosen. Perhaps it was the only college close by that was logistically able to be attended by the student. Let's face it, moving is expensive as all get out and not every family has a car to drive their child to a new school. Bus tickets are expensive too. I know plenty of students that went to a small local college 'cuz they could actually *get there*.

 

[ShyRem]

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by attributes other than skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

You so get what I was trying to say. 🙂

 

[riceman04]

I actually have a very serious question about AA and med school admissions. (sorry). How can people be disadvantaged if they get into college and take the very same classes, get tutor access to help them, take the very same tests and exams, have the same research opportunities and clinical opportunities at college that the other folks have? I agree there are definitely problems with folks from poorer neighborhoods getting into college (whether they be black or white, a poor neighborhood does not generally provide the same playing field to get into college). However, once a poor neighborhood educated person gets into college with the rich neighborhood educated person and they take classes sitting next to each other, where's the disadvantage in education anymore? And where's the fairness if the rich neighborhood person is black and the poor neighborhood person is white and the black one gets a boost for being URM?

For the sake of argument, let's say a poor-neighborhood student doesn't have good study skills. SOOOO let's throw in a student with a learning disability. They certainly don't have good study skills either. But there are free tutors to help both students succeed. Yet they aren't treated equally at all when it comes to med school admissions.

I can see the possible value of AA for getting into a decent college. However, once there everyone is on the same level - they have equal access to classes, tutors, computer labs, food, housing, etc. Shouldn't applicants be judged on their merits after equal educational opportunities of college?

swing...and a base hit!

 

[autoimmunity]

b/c people like you wont go into those communities

he swings.....homerun!!!!!!!!!!!

I would be VERY careful with such a presumptuous statement. You don't know me, nor do you have any clue about what I have done with my life. So before you go there, THINK. 👎

 

[eastsidaz]

swing......aaannnd a miss!!!!
strike:1

Cmon man. You have to actually refute it. You can't just call it a strike because you disagree with it.

 

[Brainsucker]

I actually have a very serious question about AA and med school admissions. (sorry). How can people be disadvantaged if they get into college and take the very same classes, get tutor access to help them, take the very same tests and exams, have the same research opportunities and clinical opportunities at college that the other folks have? I agree there are definitely problems with folks from poorer neighborhoods getting into college (whether they be black or white, a poor neighborhood does not generally provide the same playing field to get into college). However, once a poor neighborhood educated person gets into college with the rich neighborhood educated person and they take classes sitting next to each other, where's the disadvantage in education anymore? And where's the fairness if the rich neighborhood person is black and the poor neighborhood person is white and the black one gets a boost for being URM?

For the sake of argument, let's say a poor-neighborhood student doesn't have good study skills. SOOOO let's throw in a student with a learning disability. They certainly don't have good study skills either. But there are free tutors to help both students succeed. Yet they aren't treated equally at all when it comes to med school admissions.

I can see the possible value of AA for getting into a decent college. However, once there everyone is on the same level - they have equal access to classes, tutors, computer labs, food, housing, etc. Shouldn't applicants be judged on their merits after equal educational opportunities of college?

Maybe they still suck at standardized (and maybe by extension) all other multiple choice tests as Riceman's post suggests. Maybe they have to work.

 

[KidCapri]

I cannot agree with you more. I started out in a mjority afr. amer. elementary school that was part of the Inglewood School District (Inglewood is the hood for those of you who dont know). This school sucked and was considered the best elementary school in the district. I was extremely easy to perform well in those classes b/c nothing was challenging. Show up...you get an A. I lived in a great neighborhood (this is where my elementary school was located)...known as the Black Beverly Hills (saying this to prove a point). Despite the school's surroundings, however, the quality of education was horrible due to the fact that it belonged to one of the worst (and very corrupt) school systems in southern california. Luckily I grew up with pretty well off parents. They were able to send me to expensive an private school (started in 7th grade) where teachers challenged us both to the fullest extent. My first year there was the hardest year ever b/c I realized just how far behind I was in my school work and study skills (except in mathematics...and that was only b/c I took Kumon on the side of school). My classmates were already learning how to write organized papers and write ups while I was still trying to figure out how to write coherently. I know that the only way I survived that transition (and eventually caught up and then excelled) was through my personal refusal to let everyone else leave me in the dust. Many minorites are not as lucky as I was and did not have the proper guidance (my mom knew of the situation with the public educational system in Los Angeles, Inglewood, Compton, etc...and finally convinced my dad to agree with her in sending me to private school).

One more thing: I honestly believe that my test taking skills suffered b/c of my early years. I know that I have to work much harder to do as well as many of you...It took 5 tries for me to earn a competitive score on the SAT (and I started taking the exam in 9th grade b/c my mom knew that I have a standardized test taking problem).

I work hard and will continue to do so! However, I also know that I am one of the lucky ones!

Ok I am back to just observing now!
cya

It's interesting to see that you experienced some of the same culture shock that I did when I was young. I'm glad that you made it through also.

I think that I'll take your cue and go back to observing on this thread. peace. 😎

 

[Sanctuary]

What's your big picture point? I'm saying that there comes a point where we have to say enough is enough. For the URM that has gained acceptance into a top UG through AA, does he/she still need to use AA to gain acceptance to medical school? If so, should said URM still need to use AA for say residency/internship/fellowship? Where do we draw the line?

As far as AA is applied today, it targets ethnicity, when it should instead be using socioeconomic status. If two applicants, one an URM the other an ORMajority, have the same exact applications (scores, ECs, LORs, yes I know this is anecdotal), accepting the URM based on AA is inherently valuing his/her ethnicity greater than that of the ORMajority.

Clearly, most URM applicants are coming from top UG schools. This statement holds as much merit as one who says, "I have this friend who knows this guy who did cocaine for 35 years straight and is in perfect health, so cocaine isn't as bad for you as everyone says it is."

Generally speaking, if you want to sound more credible, it was a good idea not to use 'extreme' cases to justify a point. Further, it is a bad idea to use anecdotal evidence. Instead, you should find statistics (as I did with the original post) and try to explain them, or better, have someone else explain them (as I asked people to do) who have more experience with the matter and less opinion.

 

[riceman04]

Cmon man. You have to actually refute it. You can't just call it a strike because you disagree with it.

I agree that there is something wrong with the system. But I dont think that one should totally scrap the idea of trying to actively recruit underrep. minorities and replace it with socioeconomic status b/c once again we will run into loopholes. I think it should be a mix of the two.

hey you are only on strike one: 😀

one more comment and back to my lawn chair.

 

[Brainsucker]

No beer for you, riceman--no Kool Aid either. You're officially in it.

 

[autoimmunity]

Clearly, most URM applicants are coming from top UG schools. This statement holds as much merit as one who says, "I have this friend who knows this guy who did cocaine for 35 years straight and is in perfect health, so cocaine isn't as bad for you as everyone says it is."

Generally speaking, if you want to sound more credible, it was a good idea not to use 'extreme' cases to justify a point. Further, it is a bad idea to use anecdotal evidence. Instead, you should find statistics (as I did with the original post) and try to explain them, or better, have someone else explain them (as I asked people to do) who have more experience with the matter and less opinion.

You put up statistics that only painted half the picture and they were explained.

I asked for statistics, big whup?

I post my opinions, big whup? Are you the official SDN police? If you don't like my opinions, which I don't think are inflammatory, then that's just too bad for you. What, do you want me to wipe your ass while we're at it? 😕

 

[Jbienven]

I find this interesting:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

Estimated for 2004:

Whites make up an estimated 80% of the population.

Blacks an estimated 13%.

Asians, roughly 4%.

Hispanic/Latino populations are mixed in there and a total of 14% (which I assume includes black hispanics).


When you look at the matriculants for medical school for 2004:

Asians make up 19% of matriculants, while only being 4% of the population...Whites make up 66% of the matriculants, Blacks make up only 6%.



Just thought I'd share...I find it intersting that there is such a disparity between demographic make-up and medical school matriculants. I've heard arguments that more "ethnic" physicians are needed because they normally treat their ethnicity (don't know if I buy it). But if that were true...we would need less asian physicians.

My point is...when you start drawing lines around race...many many problems surface. I think this has to do that our country has drawn so many race lines; everything seems to revolve around race...I personally think its stupid.

 

[Brainsucker]

You put up statistics that only painted half the picture and they were explained.

I asked for statistics, big whup?

I post my opinions, big whup? Are you the official SDN police? If you don't like my opinions, which I don't think are inflammatory, then that's just too bad for you. What, do you want me to wipe your ass while we're at it? 😕

Shh! You're going to get the real SDN police here. And you had such a nice civil argument going. It can't go anywhere because each side's position is entrenched ('cept mine, but I doubt I'm going to be swayed), but it'll give everyone something to do.

 

[Sanctuary]

I think what she meant was if MLK believed peopled should be judged by attributes other than skin color, the policy of AA (which he strongly supported) should follow the same reasoning and disregard race while focusing on socioeconomic status that determines one's access to educational programs

Oh Vizsla, I'm not trying to sound condescending in anyway, but I hope this isn't news to you - there is a striking correlation between race and socioeconomic status. One doesn't have to search far for statistics on this. If interested, let me know and I can post some of my references from my semester paper on this very topic from last year. Yes, I keep all my old papers; I'm somewhat of a packrat. 🙂

 

[riceman04]

I would be VERY careful with such a presumptuous statement. You don't know me, nor do you have any clue about what I have done with my life. So before you go there, THINK. 👎

here is my last comment/question:

so explain right now, what have you done to demonstrate your interest in working in an underserved community where you are definitely NOT the majority? If you have had that experience what exactly did you do?

It is not enough to say "I drive through bad neighborhoods everyday."

You are right, I don't know you!! But the overwhelming...and I must highlight OVERWHELMING...majority of many of my caucasian/asian/etc. peers deliberately stay away from these neighborhoods. I ask myself "why?" all the time, knowing that it is a rhetorical question.

My hope is that I am so wrong about you that it hurts. I also do hope that you can put me in my place b/c you do in fact committ your time to making as much a difference in these communities, or just simply seek opportunities to actively observe what occurs in these areas (and not solely rely on news reports from the idiot box).

ok I am now back in my lawn chair! 😀

 

[riceman04]

No beer for you, riceman--no Kool Aid either. You're officially in it.

I have retired my jersey! 😀

 

[Vizsla]

It's cherry-picking, and deliberately miscontruing his ideals to suit your own, while cowering behind the "MLK himself said it!" defense. If you'd like to adopt someone's philosophies, take the time to actually investigate the person's stance on said philosophy, instead of accepting the 30 second sound-bite.

That said, I've got to actually do some work, so I might be off for tonight. But y'all enjoy the evening. 🙂

misconstruing his ideals?? so he did believe in recognizing one's character over skin color, just not when it came to AA?? I dont need to adopt his philosophies, bc I already believe in them and I hope you understand that MLK (while an avid supporter) was not the first in history to promote these ideals so not all of us who believe in recial equality "adopted" our beliefs from MLK.

 

[Sanctuary]

You put up statistics that only painted half the picture and they were explained.

I asked for statistics, big whup?

I post my opinions, big whup? Are you the official SDN police? If you don't like my opinions, which I don't think are inflammatory, then that's just too bad for you. What, do you want me to wipe your ass while we're at it? 😕

Yes, you are quite correct, Autoimmunity. And although we do value your sincere opinions, one's 'points' can often become moot when they are, well, just one's opinion. But by all means, continue posting your opinions, as they keep the thread lively and interesting! 🙂 Best of luck to you - I think you'll make a well-rounded physician.

 

[eastsidaz]

I find this interesting:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

Estimated for 2004:

Whites make up an estimated 80% of the population.

Blacks an estimated 13%.

Asians, roughly 4%.

Hispanic/Latino populations are mixed in there and a total of 14% (which I assume includes black hispanics).


When you look at the matriculants for medical school for 2004:

Asians make up 19% of matriculants, while only being 4% of the population...Whites make up 66% of the matriculants, Blacks make up only 6%.



Just thought I'd share...I find it intersting that there is such a disparity between demographic make-up and medical school matriculants. I've heard arguments that more "ethnic" physicians are needed because they normally treat their ethnicity (don't know if I buy it). But if that were true...we would need less asian physicians.

My point is...when you start drawing lines around race...many many problems surface. I think this has to do that our country has drawn so many race lines; everything seems to revolve around race...I personally think its stupid.

So uh...strictly speaking, whites are an "under-represented" group too.

 

[autoimmunity]

here is my last comment/question:

so explain right now, what have you done to demonstrate your interest in working in an underserved community where you are definitely NOT the majority? If you have had that experience what exactly did you do?

It is not enough to say "I drive through bad neighborhoods everyday."

You are right, I don't know you. But the overwhelming...and I must highlight OVERWHELMING majority of many of my caucasian/asian/etc. peers deliberately stay away from these neighborhoods. I ask myself "why?" all the time, knowing that it is a rhetorical question.

My hope is that I am so wrong about you that it hurts. I also do hope that you can put me in my place b/c you do in fact committ your time to making as much a difference in these communities, or just simply seek opportunities to actively observe what occurs in these areas (and not solely rely on news reports from the idiot box).

ok I am now back in my lawn chair! 😀

I LIVE on the South Side of Chicago. I probably have just as much URM street cred as you do..... 😉

 

[MarzMD]

misconstruing his ideals?? so he did believe in recognizing one's character over skin color, just not when it came to AA?? I dont need to adopt his philosophies, bc I already believe in them and I hope you understand that MLK (while an avid supporter) was not the first in history to promote these ideals so not all of us who believe in recial equality "adopted" our beliefs from MLK.

Not sure why you keep trying to argue that a means to an end is not congruent with the end result.

 

[Mixtli]

So uh...strictly speaking, whites are an "under-represented" group too.

If you ain't black, you ain't know how racism feels.

 

[autoimmunity]

I think you'll make a well-rounded physician.

hmmm......internet sarcasm......so.....difficult.......to........identify......

But yes, I like to keep it lively.

 

[autoimmunity]

Shh! You're going to get the real SDN police here. And you had such a nice civil argument going. It can't go anywhere because each side's position is entrenched ('cept mine, but I doubt I'm going to be swayed), but it'll give everyone something to do.

Funny posts.

 

[Vizsla]

Oh Vizsla, I'm not trying to sound condescending in anyway, but I hope this isn't news to you - there is a striking correlation between race and socioeconomic status. One doesn't have to search far for statistics on this. If interested, let me know and I can post some of my references from my semester paper on this very topic from last year. Yes, I keep all my old papers; I'm somewhat of a packrat. 🙂

yeah...I think everyone here knows that. THe point im trying to get across is when you use socioeconomic status, yes the majority will be URMs, but it will also include those races who are over-represented in medicine who qualify for consideration based on their own financial hardships. How can you provide for one group of people (URMs) who supposedly have less access to resources when another group of people (albeit much smaller) also share the in the same issues yet do not benefit from the program bc their race is over-represented in medicine.

 

[Vizsla]

Not sure why you keep trying to argue that a means to an end is not congruent with the end result.

bc as one poster has already mentioned, the means being used is flawed in itself and will inevitably continue on with no end in sight...

 

[DrBowtie]

Anyone else watching the 84 LB BABY on TLC? J/W.

 

[MarzMD]

bc as one poster has already mentioned, the means being used is flawed in itself and will inevitably continue on with no end in sight...

Without trying to solve the main problems in our society that cause the need for AA, yes it will go on forever. That is why I have mixed feelings about the implimentation of AA. However, I dont think MLK envisioned it being this way when he argued for AA.

 

[autoimmunity]

Anyone else watching the 84 LB BABY on TLC? J/W.

HOLY SHNIKEYS. 😱 I am now.

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

I will personally ask for my account to be banned if you can come up with something about AA that was not said in this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=245260

😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴

 

[MarzMD]

I will personally ask for my account to be banned if you can come up with something about AA that was not said in this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=245260

😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴

Any attempt to ruin the cycle of threads on SDN is futile.

 

[Brainsucker]

I will personally ask for my account to be banned if you can come up with something about AA that was not said in this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=245260

😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴 😴

Dude, nothing new is ever mentioned on SDN. Oh wait, the rankings change every now and then and then that's mentioned.

I need some sleep.

 

[autoimmunity]

Dude, nothing new is ever mentioned on SDN. Oh wait, the rankings change every now and then and then that's mentioned.

I need some sleep.

I see it as a sort of SDN initiation for newcomers to chime in on this age-old debate.

 

[medhacker]

What a bunch of juvenile conjectures... 😴

 

[Brainsucker]

What a bunch of juvenile conjectures... 😴

Fix your link. I wanna know why URMs have lower stats.

 

[happydays]

I actually have a very serious question about AA and med school admissions. (sorry). How can people be disadvantaged if they get into college and take the very same classes, get tutor access to help them, take the very same tests and exams, have the same research opportunities and clinical opportunities at college that the other folks have? I agree there are definitely problems with folks from poorer neighborhoods getting into college (whether they be black or white, a poor neighborhood does not generally provide the same playing field to get into college). However, once a poor neighborhood educated person gets into college with the rich neighborhood educated person and they take classes sitting next to each other, where's the disadvantage in education anymore? And where's the fairness if the rich neighborhood person is black and the poor neighborhood person is white and the black one gets a boost for being URM?

For the sake of argument, let's say a poor-neighborhood student doesn't have good study skills. SOOOO let's throw in a student with a learning disability. They certainly don't have good study skills either. But there are free tutors to help both students succeed. Yet they aren't treated equally at all when it comes to med school admissions.

I can see the possible value of AA for getting into a decent college. However, once there everyone is on the same level - they have equal access to classes, tutors, computer labs, food, housing, etc. Shouldn't applicants be judged on their merits after equal educational opportunities of college?

If you feel that you are at a disadvantage, you are free to check the box on AMCAS.

 

[infiniti]

Shyrem, how can people be disadvantaged when they are black, doing well in school and have been "accidently" given B- in several classes only to have the grades changed to A+ after other professors regraded them?

Why is the sky blue?

Why do hold on to your purse ever so tightly when that "dark figure" walks towards you?

Why don't we ever see news about black, and latino kids missing on TV? Do this group have a genetic mutation that surpresses getting lost?

Frankly there are many questions in this world. My advice for you and others thinking along the same line is to go out there and try to understand things from a different perspective. Put yourselves in unfamiliar situation and keep an open mind. You might surprise yourself. If not, you can at least say you've tried.

 

[cfdavid]

They don't all, but the stats say that URMs are more likely to practice in underserved communities.

Perhaps, but that's only because many URMs come from those very areas. If URMs grew up in more affluent areas, they'd be more apt to practice in those more affluent areas. I just think people trend toward where they feel more comfortable and most familiar, rather than through altruism (most people that is).

So, as URMs become more and more prosperous, they will trend towards living, and raising their families in more prosperous areas (who wouldn't?). I would think that their practice locations would similarly shift. Now there's a study.