URM, ORM, No RM - or just use social security number

[Gauss44]

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Why don't colleges give all students the OPTION of applying by social security number (or ID number) INSTEAD OF by name, race, etc.?

My thoughts:

The benefit (for some) would be that no one would know your name, race, age, etc. based on your application, only your grades, essay, gpa, etc. That would nearly ensure that only the application and essay were being taken into consideration. It would not, of course, ensure that people were treated fairly prior to applying.

If the purpose of asking for race, age, etc. is to ensure diversity, colleges could limit the number of applications like that that they take. The age/race/etc. blind applications could still be subject to diversity screening of a different sort, maybe more about who someone is or what they're like, rather than what categories they fit into.

Inspired by: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1001687 but relevant to a bunch of threads.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Why don't colleges give all students the OPTION of applying by social security number (or ID number) INSTEAD OF by name, race, etc.?

My thoughts:

The benefit (for some) would be that no one would know your name, race, age, etc. based on your application, only your grades, essay, gpa, etc. That would nearly ensure that only the application and essay were being taken into consideration. It would not, of course, ensure that people were treated fairly prior to applying.

If the purpose of asking for race, age, etc. is to ensure diversity, colleges could limit the number of applications like that that they take. The age/race/etc. blind applications could still be subject to diversity screening of a different sort, maybe more about who someone is or what they're like, rather than what categories they fit into.

Inspired by: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1001687 but relevant to a bunch of threads.

What are you going to show up to your interview with a ski mask? The only people that don't want to include race are either White or Asian, so they'd figure it out.

 

[red doctober]

How would colleges decide who gets to apply which way? Don't you think that people would apply to the way that gave the best chance of them getting in? It doesn't seem like it would work.

Read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_v._University_of_Texas

 

[jd989898]

Yeah it's pretty annoying that most schools nowadays can only seem to diversify based the race you check on the application. Why can't they use other qualities besides your ethnicity?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Yeah it's pretty annoying that most schools nowadays can only seem to diversify based the race you check on the application. Why can't they use other qualities besides your ethnicity?

They do, region, sex, age, income, major, ECs, etc...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

They should do this for the Match.

 

[red doctober]

Yeah it's pretty annoying that most schools nowadays can only seem to diversify based the race you check on the application. Why can't they use other qualities besides your ethnicity?

Go visit any medical school and it will be pretty apparent that there are diverse classes in more ways than just race and age...

 

[Gauss44]

What are you going to show up to your interview with a ski mask? The only people that don't want to include race are either White or Asian, so they'd figure it out.

No that would scare them away!

It would work up until that point, unless they did phone interviews. The discussion that inspired this (mentioned in the topic), was not a white or asian. I think that some URMs would apply by social security number if allowed, especially the high-achievers, because it prove that they can get in that way - and that they really do measure up to their non-URM peers.

 

[Gauss44]

[1.]How would colleges decide who gets to apply which way?

[2.]Don't you think that people would apply to the way that gave the best chance of them getting in?

1. It could be reserved for people with top marks or at least average marks (which might prevent #2). OR first come, first serve (keep count on website). Or they might only take applications like that for the 1st month, 1st 2 weeks, or whatever works (possibly a very limited number at first to see how it goes). OR AAMC or someone could ensure that a set number people from each group got to apply that way before the application "goes blind" and is sent to the school.

2. You make a very good point. Certainly, some people would apply whichever way they perceived as giving them the best chance, some people wouldn't (for political reasons, personal reasons, or other reasons). (As mentioned in #1, there might be a way to regulate that and still go blind.) If applications were only "blind" until that cycle was over, we would then be able to see, question, and interview some of the applicants and then publish articles about the statistics and about why people applied the way they did. I would like to see how this would work in practice, rather than in theory. (Non-medical schools could try this too. If ORM is the concern, maybe law schools should try this first: http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/matrics-by-ethnicity.asp)

This could provide evidence as to how much of the "URM advantage," "ORM disadvantage," etc. is perception and how much is reality.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

You can omit race. Not name....sorry Chinese people.

 

[Gauss44]

You can omit race. Not name....sorry Chinese people.

Why sorry to just Chinese people?

There are a lot of ethnic names, and always a possibility for prejudice regardless of urm/orm/non-rm status. Of course if this assumes that all asians are chinese, and that only asians would use the social security number method, then those are 2 assumptions.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

You're advocating legally changing your name for admissions purposes? #turbogunner

My point was that Chinamen have very recognizable names...Chen, Zhang, etc. Since they're assumed to be ORM, it could potentially hurt them even if race is omitted.

 

[Gauss44]

My point was that Chinamen have very recognizable names...Chen, Zhang, etc. Since they're assumed to be ORM, it could potentially hurt them even if race is omitted.

True.

 

[DokterMom]

'Chinamen'? Pretty archaic and derogatory term. The correct term is Asian for people, and Oriental for objects.

And not just Chinese names are distinctive: Park, Nguyen, Hashimoto, Patel, MacDonald, O'Sullivan, Schmidt, Buckingham, Hernandez, Washington...