URM?

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drabberbadge

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Hi
I am from South Africa but I'm not black, I'm indian as ethnicity but 7 generations South African but born in America
Would I still be considered African American when applying
 
My impression is that you said you are Indian ethnically, so I would not put down African American as your ethnicity.
 
Lya said:
My impression is that you said you are Indian ethnically, so I would not put down African American as your ethnicity.
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Technically indian many many generations back
But my family and culture is South African
Never been to india
 
Adcoms are fully aware of Indian people who moved to Africa at some point of their history. Your place of birth and languages you speak will make it obvious as well. For your ethnicity you should list Asian though.
 
Just the other day I was thinking about the dearth of URM threads on SDN as of late. And 'lo, one arrives!

Back to the point, Nontrad really made the main point. AMCAS asks you what YOU identify as. There is no rule here - there are no criteria you have to fulfill in order to list yourself as whatever. If you identify as South African, then put African American. You will likely be asked about it, but I think your explanation is perfectly reasonable. Even if you "look Indian," listing yourself as Asian when you really have no link to Asian culture doesn't make sense.
 
There is space on your application for you to talk about your place of birth and the languages you speak. Also, the diversity sections on secondaries would be a good place to talk about growing up in SA. So while you can't claim AA/Black, it can come up in other sections of your application.

Or you can select other for race and put idian-african or something. Before Afro-caribbean became an option, that's what I used to do.
 
.......

The fact you feel the need to ask says everything.
There's no clear cut answer, but it's pretty obvious you don't think you should check that African American/African box.
I'd put "other" or "Asian" and explain. But again, it's your personal identification and who YOU connect with. As a West African I have never questioned which box I check.
I beg, please don't check a box with the hope to gain acceptance playing the diversity card. That's not even cool. Your story is unique in itself!
 
GingerGirl27 said:
So while you can't claim AA/Black
Click to expand...

According to who? You? There's nothing that bars him from picking whatever he wants. I agree that putting down a particular ethnicity in the hopes of trying to get some sort of advantage is stupid because it likely won't work, but if he identifies himself more as an African American than an Asian, then he's entitled to put that on his app. You don't have to be black to be African.
 
NickNaylor said:
According to who? You? There's nothing that bars him from picking whatever he wants. I agree that putting down a particular ethnicity in the hopes of trying to get some sort of advantage is stupid because it likely won't work, but if he identifies himself more as an African American than an Asian, then he's entitled to put that on his app. You don't have to be black to be African.
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I guess it depends on how you define AA. There is certainly nothing stopping him from selecting African American and I should have qualified my statement as more of an opinion, but I didn't get from the OP that he identified as AA. He seems to identify as South African, which is entirely different IMO. Its a nationality versus a racial identification.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

To Add: the 2010 census defined Black/African American as having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. So by definition, OP does not fit that definition.
I can't link the PDF with the definition because I'm on my phone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NickNaylor said:
According to who? You? There's nothing that bars him from picking whatever he wants. I agree that putting down a particular ethnicity in the hopes of trying to get some sort of advantage is stupid because it likely won't work, but if he identifies himself more as an African American than an Asian, then he's entitled to put that on his app. You don't have to be black to be African.
Click to expand...
Because it's Black/African American. Not
[] Black
[] African American

As I understand it they are the same and is worded that way because some black people like the term African American and some like black. I could understand if it said African with no American maybe.
 
drabberbadge said:
Hi
I am from South Africa but I'm not black, I'm indian as ethnicity but 7 generations South African but born in America
Would I still be considered African American when applying
Click to expand...


Think about it OP, it's not that hard.

Are you culturally African(ie. composition of friends? Family? Neighborhood? University?)

Would a white from South Africa from a family that's immigrated to SA a couple of centuries ago and now moved to America be considered African?

Would an Australian[Chinese,Caucasian,Indian] be considered an aboriginal?
 
NontradCA said:
Because it's Black/African American. Not
[] Black
[] African American

As I understand it they are the same and is worded that way because some black people like the term African American and some like black. I could understand if it said African with no American maybe.
Click to expand...

You click the Black box then it actually asks you to describe what "type" of Black you are haha i.e. African-American, Afro-Caribbean, African. So while I don't think that schools make a distinction between the different sub-sets, you can choose from one of those. Same with Hispanic or Latino, it then lets you pick the type.

OP, you wouldn't be the first person to try and do this and you wouldn't be the last. I agree with what NickNaylor said about self-identification. If you have identified as "African" and not "South Asian" your entire life then you should put it down. I had a friend who was from Kenya who was of Indian descent and she was in the African Student Association, always repped Kenya for the cultural shows and everything. She still identified as Indian, but she identified as African as well.

It's a personal choice and it's one that you should be prepared to potentially defend if necessary. Also, I wouldn't put it down now if you haven't put it down in the past. If you didn't put Black/African-American when applying to college or the census or any of the other places you can put it, then now is not the time. If you identify as African, you should have been identifying as it for a while now lol.
 
ChemEngMD said:
You click the Black box then it actually asks you to describe what "type" of Black you are haha i.e. African-American, Afro-Caribbean, African. So while I don't think that schools make a distinction between the different sub-sets, you can choose from one of those. Same with Hispanic or Latino, it then lets you pick the type.

OP, you wouldn't be the first person to try and do this and you wouldn't be the last. I agree with what NickNaylor said about self-identification. If you have identified as "African" and not "South Asian" your entire life then you should put it down. I had a friend who was from Kenya who was of Indian descent and she was in the African Student Association, always repped Kenya for the cultural shows and everything. She still identified as Indian, but she identified as African as well.

It's a personal choice and it's one that you should be prepared to potentially defend if necessary. Also, I wouldn't put it down now if you haven't put it down in the past. If you didn't put Black/African-American when applying to college or the census or any of the other places you can put it, then now is not the time. If you identify as African, you should have been identifying as it for a while now lol.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, the first box is still Black/African American, then they let you choose which sub set you choose to identify with additionally so nontradCA is correct. The two words are often used as synonyms.
 
NontradCA said:
Because it's Black/African American. Not
[] Black
[] African American

As I understand it they are the same and is worded that way because some black people like the term African American and some like black. I could understand if it said African with no American maybe.
Click to expand...

I don't have a working AMCAS in front of me but I looked up a PDF and it says "Black or African American," so unless South Africa suddenly joined Europe I think OP has every right to claim AA. Especially because his family has lived there for 7 generations. If AMCAS doesn't want non-black people to check AA, then they should just put "Black." The title of the section is "Self-Identification," and not "Genetic Background" so it should include ethnicity
 
ChemEngMD said:
You click the Black box then it actually asks you to describe what "type" of Black you are haha i.e. African-American, Afro-Caribbean, African. So while I don't think that schools make a distinction between the different sub-sets, you can choose from one of those. Same with Hispanic or Latino, it then lets you pick the type.

OP, you wouldn't be the first person to try and do this and you wouldn't be the last. I agree with what NickNaylor said about self-identification. If you have identified as "African" and not "South Asian" your entire life then you should put it down. I had a friend who was from Kenya who was of Indian descent and she was in the African Student Association, always repped Kenya for the cultural shows and everything. She still identified as Indian, but she identified as African as well.

It's a personal choice and it's one that you should be prepared to potentially defend if necessary. Also, I wouldn't put it down now if you haven't put it down in the past. If you didn't put Black/African-American when applying to college or the census or any of the other places you can put it, then now is not the time. If you identify as African, you should have been identifying as it for a while now lol.
Click to expand...
Yes. I filled out AMCAS as well. My point is that it is still for darkies. Let's be real here.
 
The term 'African American' has a specific cultural meaning in America. You are not African American by that definition, nor are you black. Checking the black/African American box, therefore, risks coming off as taking advantage of a technicality. If you do it specifically thinking you would be getting an advantage and that comes out in your interviews it would be at best a dicey situation to navigate, and at worst reflect very poorly on you. You could do it, but is it really the most advantageous position to take? I doubt it.

In your position I would probably decline to list my race, or check 'other', and then use essays to elaborate on and describe my background.
 
NontradCA said:
Yes. I filled out AMCAS as well. My point is that it is still for darkies. Let's be real here.
Click to expand...

Yeah I figured you probably didn't check the "Black/African-American" box to see how it dropped down and let you pick more options.

...especially considering you just referred to "the darkies". Really though?

I know plenty of very fair skinned people who identify as Afro-Caribbean or African American or Afro-Latino.
 
Call AMCAS or email them. Explain your situation and input whatever race they tell you to input. They have people on staff to answer these type of questions and their answer, unlike the answers here which may are may not be correct, is absolutely the correct one since it is their application and they know how they want it to be filled out.

That said, don't expect the typical URM boost even if they tell you to list African American. IIRC the point of giving benefit to URMs is to increase the number of URM doctors because that is beneficial to the patients for various reasons(prefer a doctor of their own race, URM doctors tend to work in underserved areas with high URM populations, etc). Regardless of where you come from, when you walk in the room people will see an Indian guy, and that is in no way a URM.
 
V5RED said:
Call AMCAS or email them. Explain your situation and input whatever race they tell you to input. They have people on staff to answer these type of questions and their answer, unlike the answers here which may are may not be correct, is absolutely the correct one since it is their application and they know how they want it to be filled out.

That said, don't expect the typical URM boost even if they tell you to list African American. IIRC the point of giving benefit to URMs is to increase the number of URM doctors because that is beneficial to the patients for various reasons(prefer a doctor of their own race, URM doctors tend to work in underserved areas with high URM populations, etc). Regardless of where you come from, when you walk in the room people will see an Indian guy, and that is in no way a URM.
Click to expand...

Disagree -- you shouldn't let some organization (AMCAS) tell you what race or ethnicity you are.

It is a personal decision for OP to make. If you choose "African American/Black" because AMCAS tells you to and that is your reasoning when someones asks you about it at an interview then you will look like someone who does not know themselves/cannot make decisions.

If you put down a URM ethnicity then you will be interviewed at some point by a diversity interviewer and they will comb through your background and how that relates to your goals (happened to me a couple times). If you identify as African then just put it, but be prepared to explain and talk about how you identify much more with Africans than South Asians, etc.
 
ChemEngMD said:
Yeah I figured you probably didn't check the "Black/African-American" box to see how it dropped down and let you pick more options.

...especially considering you just referred to "the darkies". Really though?

I know plenty of very fair skinned people who identify as Afro-Caribbean or African American or Afro-Latino.
Click to expand...

You're not black are you?
 
ChemEngMD said:
Yes and it has a derogatory connotation. I wasn't implying that I was ignorant of the term, I was implying that those who use it are ignorant.
Click to expand...
Ignorant how?
 
ChemEngMD said:
It's a racist term. Are you serious? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=darky
Click to expand...
I know it's negative connotation and it's satirical one. I was using the latter. I'm not racist; so tell me how I'm ignorant? Maybe to the fact that you're hypersensitive prior to posting. You got what I was saying nonetheless. Your argument holds absolutely no weight. The Black/African box is for those who are originated from Africa. There are just as many Indians in the Caribbean as there are blacks. There's no Asian-Carib, Asian- African. I think AMCAS wants us to use common sense.
 
drabberbadge said:
Technically indian many many generations back
But my family and culture is South African
Never been to india
Click to expand...

I'm technically European many generations back. My family and culture is American.
Never been to my European "homeland". Can I all myself "Native American"? Same thing, OP. You won't be the first Indian with roots in Africa we've seen. My own internist has that background.
 
NontradCA said:
I know it's negative connotation and it's satirical one. I was using the latter. I'm not racist; so tell me how I'm ignorant? Maybe to the fact that you're hypersensitive prior to posting. You got what I was saying nonetheless.
Click to expand...

I was trying to be nice by saying "ignorant" instead of "bigot". My mistake.
 
LizzyM said:
I'm technically European many generations back. My family and culture is American.
Never been to my European "homeland". Can I all myself "Native American"? Same thing, OP. You won't be the first Indian with roots in Africa we've seen. My own internist has that background.
Click to expand...
Boom.
 
In what way is OP not African American? He is 7th generation African and was born in the US? Certainly, OP is not black, but it is reasonable to say that he is African-American. Would someone of Egyptian background, who is not "Black," be considered African-American?
 
NontradCA said:
Because it's Black/African American. Not
[] Black
[] African American

As I understand it they are the same and is worded that way because some black people like the term African American and some like black. I could understand if it said African with no American maybe.
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't realize that. I figured "African American" was a choice with the understanding that likely 95% of people that choose that option would be "black." I didn't realize that the only say to be African American in AMCAS' eyes was to be black.

Sent from my phone, please forgive any typos
 
African American in the US refers to Black descendants of slaves.

Afro-Caribbean refers to Black Caribbean.

African refers to Blacks that identify with Africa.

OP is not African-American.

OP is from Africa but will most likely be considered Asian here and most likely identifies as Asian.

Claiming that you are Black because you were born in Africa is like claiming that I am White because I am born in Germany.
 
NickNaylor said:
Ah, I didn't realize that. I figured "African American" was a choice with the understanding that likely 95% of people that choose that option would be "black." I didn't realize that the only say to be African American in AMCAS' eyes was to be black.

Sent from my phone, please forgive any typos
Click to expand...

The AMCAS says "Black or African American" so it's not mutually inclusive in my opinion
 
sourdoughllama said:
The AMCAS says "Black or African American" so it's not mutually inclusive in my opinion
Click to expand...

Haha, perhaps, but I interpret that as others did, ie, that African American = black. I mean, I wouldn't mark African American if I weren't black. Though I guess you are technically correct, and the bold could give it a shot...

Sent from my phone, please forgive any typos
 
OP already stated that he identifies with a South African (African) identity. I agree that African-American or African is typically associated with being black, but I don't think that it has to mean black, as there are millions of Africans who would likely be labeled things other than "Black"
 
wtr24 said:
OP already stated that he identifies with a South African (African) identity. I agree that African-American or African is typically associated with being black, but I don't think that it has to mean black, as there are millions of Africans who would likely be labeled things other than "Black"
Click to expand...

OP is from Africa and should be able to mark African American (yes of course it's always assumed to mean black). But it's AMCAS's fault for not being specific enough. The most accurate would be to mark African American and Asian and specify exactly what his background is.
 
Yeah, I agree. AMCAS forces OP (and many others) into this weird position by have very broad categories that have somewhat ambiguous qualifications.
 
sourdoughllama said:
OP is from Africa and should be able to mark African American (yes of course it's always assumed to mean black). But it's AMCAS's fault for not being specific enough. The most accurate would be to mark African American and Asian and specify exactly what his background is.
Click to expand...
The only reason AMCAS has African American or Black is to distinguish between Afro-Caribbeans, Africans, and African Americans to see which is underrepresented of those groups. It's why it's then subdivided when you click it.
 
NontradCA said:
The only reason AMCAS has African American or Black is to distinguish between Afro-Caribbeans, Africans, and African Americans to see which is underrepresented of those groups. It's why it's then subdivided when you click it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you - to me African American will always mean black. But if AMCAS is going to put vague categories (instead of "black") and label the section "self-identification" then people have the right to interpret as written. Besides, OP didn't move to SA last year and try to pretend to be African. His culture is most definitely African if his family's been there 7 generations.
 
sourdoughllama said:
I agree with you - to me African American will always mean black. But if AMCAS is going to put vague categories (instead of "black") and label the section "self-identification" then people have the right to interpret as written. Besides, OP didn't move to SA last year and try to pretend to be African. His culture is most definitely African if his family's been there 7 generations.
Click to expand...
No one is disputing that OP is African. However, I think it's unfair to say AMCAS's definition is in anyway vague. Its pretty common knowledge that African-American = Black. The term originated as another way for Blacks in the US to identify themselves.
 
The US Gov't uses these definitions.

Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.

Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
 
In my sociology class on race and ethnicity we learned that African American is an ethnicity of American blacks who are descendants of slaves. Although many people from Africa do mark themselves as AA. I think the argument is that if you are from Africa and know your heritage you can specify which country you are from. Whereas, those who are descendants of slaves can't really claim anything else because they don't know where they come from.

OP at this age you should know what you are. Have you been identifying yourself as AA for most of your life? Do you share cultural norms, languages and traditions with others who are AA? If yes, then mark it. Your family has been in Africa for 7 generations and you're still 100% of Indian decent? Are you sure no one in your family line has mixed? Not that it matters but if there is maybe it would make you feel a little better about it. I have a friend who is of mostly Indian decent but his parents are from Guyana I believe he put Afro-caribbean and had no problem with it
 
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