USA DO vs International DO

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VBGLL

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How come the scope of an American DO is vastly different from the scope of a DO elsewhere? Who determined a DO can do everything an MD can/determined they can't?

Are international DO's slowly rising to the same level as MD's like they have in USA, or are they strictly restricted to OMM & other methods?

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How come the scope of an American DO is vastly different from the scope of a DO elsewhere? Who determined a DO can do everything an MD can/determined they can't?

Are international DO's slowly rising to the same level as MD's like they have in USA, or are they strictly restricted to OMM & other methods?

Ask and you shall receive

http://bit.ly/OC3Tmk
 
elsewhere, DOs aren't allowed to practice medicine. they are normally practitioners of OMM. They don't have the responsibilities that physicians have.
 
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the ama, the u.s. government, the california supreme court determined long ago that the u.s. do degree is equivalent to the md degree.
osteopaths outside the u.s. don't go to med school and are not considered physicians.
 
Hence the sensibility (for international medicine) for an MD, DO degree
 
Osteopaths outside the US are just chiropractors, if not below them. Ironically they use the same degree as US DO's leading to complications for us to get practice rights in those nations.
It's kinda one of the major reasons I want a degree change.
 
So they are considered glorified chiropractors outside of us?
Damn, it is good to know. :(
 
How come the scope of an American DO is vastly different from the scope of a DO elsewhere?






The founder of the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine was a British physician, named Martin Littlejohn, who learned under AT Still and taught at what is now ATSU-KCOM. Shortly after founding CCOM, he founded the first school of Osteopathy in the United Kingdom. It is here the evolution of DO's in the US and the rest of the world diverges. In the US, DO's became full physicians and the rest of the world, DO's are limited to OMM. The degrees are also different. Internationally the DO degree is for "Diplomat of Osteopathy" whereas in the US it is "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine


Further details may or may not be supplied in your OMT/OP&P class
 
Hence the sensibility (for international medicine) for an MD, DO degree

+1

I'd definitely support the change of the DO degree to MD DO (same as MD MBA, MD MPH, MD JD). US based physician degree names should unite.
 
+1

I'd definitely support the change of the DO degree to MD DO (same as MD MBA, MD MPH, MD JD). US based physician degree names should unite.

Not gonna happen

-1
 
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Not gonna happen

-1
Poliscidoc is correct. The combining of MD DO will never happen. DOs would argue that this downplays their degree. Because why would you want another medical doctor degree. I think having DO or MD tells patient your main core values in medicine. Yes the degree does not make the physician. But, it should be those who want to treat patients holistically become DO and those who have a disease centered approach become MD. Of course this is not the way, and some MD schools are becoming as holistic as DO schools.
 
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Not gonna happen

-1

Haha, agreed.

Poliscidoc is correct. The combining of MD DO will never happen. DOs would argue that this downplays their degree. Because why would you want another medical doctor degree. I think having DO or MD tells patient your main core values in medicine. Yes the degree does not make the physician. But, it should be those who want to treat patients holistically become DO and those who have a disease centered approach become MD. Of course this is not the way, and some MD schools are becoming as holistic as DO schools.

Well, no, he's not correct. I don't mind that he has an opinion on the matter...but

First, its almost happened already, at TCOM. It was opposed only by groups who hold grudges that should be in the past. I am disappointed in those groups, they let their emotions cheaper their position.

Second, for US DOs to become an international force, we they should be able to, and MD, DO (medical doctor with a diploma in Osteopathy) would not only be more clear and honest, it would make it easier for us to serve abroad.

Third, as you even stated, holistic theory, while a hallmark of Osteopathic Medicine, is not limited to it. MDs are free to practice holistically, and patients don't need a degree to decide if their doc is one way or the other...there will always be both on both side, so that responsibility still resides with the patient, if they care.

Fourth, a real difference is that DOs have OMM. If OMM is good, and positive, then its should be open for all those who wish to learn and practice it. Why make a treatment exclusive? This is very detrimental.

There can still be DO schools, there can still be the AOA... but US DOs aren't Osteopaths...they are medical doctors with additional training in Osteopathic philosophy and medicine.

The only reason for separation still is maybe pride, resistance to change, faulty knowledge...cant think of any good reasons




people are thinking way to short sightedly if they think this will *never* happen...I mean, I haven't even begun to fight

(you know this was how it was in the beginning too...AT Still MD, DO)

Just something to think about
 
Second, for US DOs to become an international force, we they should be able to, and MD, DO (medical doctor with a diploma in Osteopathy) would not only be more clear and honest, it would make it easier for us to serve abroad.

What do you mean by 'serve abroad'.
 
I think at minimum we need to change the degree to MDO. You can't have a degree that makes you a physician be the same degree that makes you a manual therapist in another country.
 
Why not have other countries recognize the difference in US-DO and other DO's?

Make it like foreign doctors that move to this country.

Don't do away with tradition to appease a group of doctors that wish to practice abroad
 
http://eyedrd.org/2010/12/resolution-calling-for-degree.html

The following resolution calling for a formal Poll for Degree Designation Change to MD, DO, Submitted by a group of DO students and DOs.

this resolution was defeated at SOMA spring convention 2010.


1. WHEREAS, According to a study conducted by the AOA in 20001, only 11% of Americans recognize the DO degree designation. Although more may recognize it today, one can reasonably expect that the percentage continues to be in the minority, and

2. WHEREAS, Numerous other healthcare providers who are not fully licensed physicians are now designated "doctor," including NMDs, DNPs, DPTs, DPMs, DCs, and ODs, and

3. WHEREAS, Other countries (such as Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom) issue a DO degree that stands for "Diploma in Osteopathy," and those who are granted this degree are limited manual medicine practitioners instead of fully licensed physicians. These similar degrees are confusing for everyone in the global medical community, and

4. WHEREAS, Patients would be better served if the osteopathic degree were universally recognized as legitimate. Some people may refuse treatment, assuming that the DO degree is not a medical degree, and in many countries, people may not be able to legally access treatment by DOs simply because they are not MDs. If just one patient is missed because of these discrepancies, that is one patient too many, and

5. WHEREAS, The time, effort, and money spent lobbying for unlimited practice rights in foreign countries2 and unambiguous recognition by the media3 and general public4 in the United States could be better spent promoting our unique "patient-centered model of care"5 if we had a more discernible degree designation, and

6. WHEREAS, Osteopathic physicians and students face unwarranted professional discrimination6 due to misunderstanding over what it means to be an osteopathic physician. Examples of such disparities include fewer research opportunities than at allopathic institutions, exclusion from some residency programs, the imposition of limited practice rights in some countries (only about 50 out of 195 countries grant DOs full practice rights)7, and other boundaries that separate us needlessly from MDs, regardless of the AOA's sincere attempts to eliminate these barriers, and

7. WHEREAS, Osteopathic physicians practice traditional medicine (like MDs), with the additional valuable resource of osteopathic manipulative treatment and emphasis on important osteopathic tenets8 (which have also become accepted by many in the allopathic medical community)9 rather than pure osteopathy, meaning "disease of the bones," as the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree suggests, and

8. WHEREAS, The title "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine" may mislead patients because it suggests that all DOs subspecialize in treating bone diseases as
opposed to treating the whole person, which is our true goal, and

9. WHEREAS, The specifically osteopathic component of our education is approximately equivalent to the training of those who hold a Diploma in Osteopathy degree in other countries10, and

10. WHEREAS, Maintaining "DO" in our degree designation would respect our legacy while limiting confusion for those who do recognize the DO degree. Most Americans would probably not notice if the "D" were changed from "Doctor" to "Diploma" and people in the international community would already be familiar with the Diploma in Osteopathy degree, and

11. WHEREAS, Modern osteopathic medicine is a completion of traditional (MD-granting) medicine, not an alternative to it, and

12. WHEREAS, MDs who wish to learn osteopathic manipulative treatment and fully embrace our philosophy presently have no standard way to do so; at the AOA's discretion, the revival of the "Diploma in Osteopathy" could lead to the creation of separate diploma programs in osteopathy with the goal of training MDs, and

13. WHEREAS, The addition of the universally recognizable MD degree to our credentials would significantly improve our ability to disseminate the osteopathic philosophy worldwide, especially among allopathic institutions, thereby reaffirming the original DO degree (Diplomate of Osteopathy, as created by A.T. Still)11 and securing its continued existence and use, and

14. WHEREAS, Despite years of the AOA advocating for semantic clarity, there is still confusion over whether we are Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine or Doctors of Osteopathy,12 and calling ourselves "Doctor of Medicine, Diplomate of Osteopathy" would resolve this linguistic conundrum, and

15. WHEREAS, A dual MD, DO, Doctor of Medicine, Diploma in Osteopathy degree would properly convey that osteopathic physicians not only possess similar medical training to our allopathic counterparts, but also have the additional knowledge of osteopathic principles and practice13 and

16. WHEREAS, The implementation of such a dual degree would, by default, discourage any COMs from choosing to offer separate MD-granting pathways at the expense of the osteopathic community14, and

17. WHEREAS, The more effective communication of osteopathic physicians' extensive training by use of the dual degree designation has the potential for being crucial to preserving the osteopathic family's autonomy. A dual MD, DO degree could prevent inappropriate associations between osteopathic physicians and limited-practice professionals15 by making it easier for the AOA to educate the MD-conscious public about the many
benefits of osteopathic principles and practice, thereby giving all osteopathic physicians the universal recognition that they rightfully deserve, and

18. WHEREAS, With the aid of the internet, polling the osteopathic community on this issue would be relatively straightforward and cost-effective, and

19. WHEREAS, Conducting a poll regarding degree designation possibilities would help the AOA to determine what the majority of osteopathic physicians and students think about degree change, allowing the AOA to make an informed decision that brings closure to this recurring issue, therefore be it

20. RESOLVED, That the AOA will explore the possible creation of a dual MD, DO degree (Doctor of Medicine, Diploma in Osteopathy) to replace the current DO degree. Within one year of this resolution's passing, the AOA will conduct a poll of osteopathic medical students and physicians who are AOA members aboutkeeping the current DO degree or changing it to the proposed MD, DO degree, in the tradition of A.T. Still. A committee consisting of both osteopathic medical students and physicians will be established to oversee and evaluate the polling process and to investigate the logistics of degree change. If a simple majority of osteopathic physicians and students vote to change the degree to MD, DO, then the AOA will officially recommend to all COMs that the degree be changed, and will support and facilitate the process of changing the degree in an efficient manner. Current DOs and OMSs may opt to either maintain the present DO degree or accept the new MD, DO degree. COMs may preserve their identities as "Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine."

=========================================================
REFERENCES
1. Corry, C. "The unknown healers." AllBusiness.com. 4 Feb 2000. http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-new-york/891988-1.html Accessed on 3 Nov 09.
2. "AOA international licensure summary." Do-online.org. 2009. http://portal.doonline.org/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=709&&activetab=TabCTRL_DropDownTabsMandatoryTABS4&mode=2&in_hi_userid=984567&cached=true&in_hi_userid=1027509 Accessed 10 Dec 09.
3. "Advocacy tips and templates." Do-online.org. 2009. http://portal.doonline.org/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=596&PageID=1024404&cached=true&mode=2&userID=1023654 Accessed 10 Dec 09.
4. "What is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.)." AOA. 2010. http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis Accessed 23 Jan 10.
5. Crosby, JB. "Continuity of thought and tradition in the discipline supported by ongoing AOA efforts." J Am Osteopath Assoc. Apr 2006; 106(4):178-9.
6. Deloss, J. Osteopathic Injustice. 2009-2010. http://www.osteopathicinjustice.com/ Accessed 23 Jan 10.
7. "International practice rights for osteopathic physicians." AACOM. 2009. http://www.aacom.org/InfoFor/phadvisors/Pages/IntlPracticeRights.aspx Accessed 3 Nov 09.
8. Rogers FJ, D'Alonzo GE Jr, Glover JC, Korr IM, Osborn GG, Patterson MM, Seffinger MA, Taylor TE, & Willard F. "Proposed tenets of osteopathic medicine and principles for patient care." J Am Osteopath Assoc. Feb 2002; 102(2):63-5.
9. Howell, JD. "The paradox of osteopathy." NEJM. Nov 1999; 341(19):1465-1468.
10. "Academic program." Collège d'Études Ostéopathiques. 2007. http://www.osteopathie-canada.ca/ENGLISH/academic_program.htm Accessed 2 Dec 09.
11. "Education and Family Established." Osteopathic Virtual Museum. 2006. http://history.osteopathic.org/educate.shtml Accessed 23 Jan 10.
12. Wickless, LA. "Answers about degrees conferred by osteopathic medical colleges and osteopathic medicine/physician terminology." AOA President's Blog. 8 Dec 09. http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?blogid=3 Accessed 10 Dec 09.
13. Brown, D. "Osteopathic college set to break ground." Spartanburg Herald-Journal. 17 Mar 10. http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100225/ARTICLES/2251045/1083/?p=1&tc=pg Accessed 17 Mar 10.
14. Crosby, JB. "Opposition to TCOM's MD Option." AOA Daily Report Blog. 12 Feb 09. http://blogs.do-online.org/dailyreport.php?itemid=20951 Accessed 17 Jan 10.
15. "OPSC Pursues Osteopathic License Autonomy." Osteopathic Physicians & Surgeons of California. http://www.opsc.org/displayindustryarticle.cfm?articlenbr=41050&startrec=1 Accessed 17 Jan 10.
 
Why not have other countries recognize the difference in US-DO and other DO's?

Make it like foreign doctors that move to this country.

Don't do away with tradition to appease a group of doctors that wish to practice abroad

Except unlike in the US there's a problem when a patient doesn't realize that the US DO has a different training and will ask why this DO is an OB/GYN or etc.

Anyway, arbitrary tradition should not inhibit progress, especially since it is evident that a clear majority is in favor of degree change.
 
...
(you know this was how it was in the beginning too...AT Still MD, DO)

Just something to think about
This. Even the founder had named himself as MD, DO. I wanna go his way.
 
Why not have other countries recognize the difference in US-DO and other DO's?

Make it like foreign doctors that move to this country.

Don't do away with tradition to appease a group of doctors that wish to practice abroad

As aspDO listed, that is the resolve I was referring to. If you read it you'll see there are several reasonable reasons to be MD, DO. Very few, if any, good reasons to stay DO.

Keeping to tradition for traditions sake is a dangerous thing to do. It stifles growth and learning.
 
Unless the SOMA continues to jam this down the AOA's throats, unless osteopathic medical schools start to on mass support this topic then we're not going to get anything done. It's time we stop making this a complaint of students, and instead make it a complaint of the greater osteopathic community.
 
I think at minimum we need to change the degree to MDO. You can't have a degree that makes you a physician be the same degree that makes you a manual therapist in another country.
+1

I think the MDO would sound better for those sho want to be an "international" force.
 
Well, no, he's not correct. I don't mind that he has an opinion on the matter...but

First, its almost happened already, at TCOM. It was opposed only by groups who hold grudges that should be in the past. I am disappointed in those groups, they let their emotions cheaper their position.

Second, for US DOs to become an international force, we they should be able to, and MD, DO (medical doctor with a diploma in Osteopathy) would not only be more clear and honest, it would make it easier for us to serve abroad.

Third, as you even stated, holistic theory, while a hallmark of Osteopathic Medicine, is not limited to it. MDs are free to practice holistically, and patients don't need a degree to decide if their doc is one way or the other...there will always be both on both side, so that responsibility still resides with the patient, if they care.

Fourth, a real difference is that DOs have OMM. If OMM is good, and positive, then its should be open for all those who wish to learn and practice it. Why make a treatment exclusive? This is very detrimental.

There can still be DO schools, there can still be the AOA... but US DOs aren't Osteopaths...they are medical doctors with additional training in Osteopathic philosophy and medicine.

The only reason for separation still is maybe pride, resistance to change, faulty knowledge...cant think of any good reasons




people are thinking way to short sightedly if they think this will *never* happen...I mean, I haven't even begun to fight

(you know this was how it was in the beginning too...AT Still MD, DO)

Just something to think about
haha. I knew Halflistic would respond to my post. :)

The only reason Andrew Still was MD DO, was because he was the first to create the whole DO system. We don't know for sure, but if he had the option like us he would be just DO. Just my thought.
 
haha. I knew Halflistic would respond to my post. :)

The only reason Andrew Still was MD DO, was because he was the first to create the whole DO system. We don't know for sure, but if he had the option like us he would be just DO. Just my thought.

He had the option much earlier than you. He is the founder of this profession, whereas you're not even a DO school student, yet.
 
haha. I knew Halflistic would respond to my post. :)

The only reason Andrew Still was MD DO, was because he was the first to create the whole DO system. We don't know for sure, but if he had the option like us he would be just DO. Just my thought.



:) I appreciate the chance to share my thoughts on the matter....

But, you only responded to the joke ending to my post. Look at the four, listed, real reasons (and there are many more) for why the change makes sense. It doesn't really matter what AT Still had for degrees, that's just a fun fact. The real reasons were listed before...

Also, like triage pointed out, there are other options like MDO, etc. not a bad idea either. Can you see see why the changes could make sense?
 
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He had the option much earlier than you. He is the founder of this profession, whereas you're not even a DO school student, yet.
I was just stating the reason for Dr. Still's dual medical degrees. If someone created the DO before him, Andrew Still would be a D.O. Just like all of us, I am not an osteopathic medical student yet. I hope that I can become one this cycle and wear the D.O. letters after my name with great pride. I think we can all agree with that. My goal is to become a physician who uses his education to best serve the patients at large.

Halflistic. Yes the change makes sense. But only if you are concerned on a international scale. If you are, then I think the title change should be MDO. Triage is a smart cat lol.
 
I was just stating the reason for Dr. Still's dual medical degrees. If someone created the DO before him, Andrew Still would be a D.O. Just like all of us, I am not an osteopathic medical student yet. I hope that I can become one this cycle and wear the D.O. letters after my name with great pride. I think we can all agree with that. My goal is to become a physician who uses his education to best serve the patients at large.

Halflistic. Yes the change makes sense. But only if you are concerned on a international scale. If you are, then I think the title change should be MDO. Triage is a smart cat lol.

I don't think you read all the points...it's not just for international meds. Buts that's ok. Some people just don't care about the issue, which is perfectly fine. We can't all care about everything..

Good luck this cycle, btw :)
 
I don't think you read all the points...it's not just for international meds. Buts that's ok. Some people just don't care about the issue, which is perfectly fine. We can't all care about everything..

Good luck this cycle, btw :)
Thanks. Good luck to you too. I saw your long post read it. Just did not want to respond to everything since I felt it would be made into a serious convo. You make good points, and I can tell you mean the best for osteopathic medicine. The profession needs people like you. Sorry that I do not have the time to write more...
 
This. Even the founder had named himself as MD, DO. I wanna go his way.
Actually, it is not really known whether or not AT Still was ever conferred an MD degree. He was of course a practicing physician even before he attended medical school since he did apprenticeship under his father who was a physician. But we only have record of his attending medical school one out of the two years of mandatory study.

AT Still is sometimes called "MD, DO" because that's what he was. He was an allopathic doctor by training but he also was the founder of osteopathic medicine - as someone else mentioned, the "first DO"
 
This. Even the founder had named himself as MD, DO. I wanna go his way.

False. he went by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still. at this point, i've just come to expect incorrect information from this poster. anyway, read Norman Gevitz' The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America
 
False. he went by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still. at this point, i've just come to expect incorrect information from this poster. anyway, read Norman Gevitz' The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America

It really doesn't matter...it's sort of a joke to even care about that.

The issue is about what is right today.

Some think that MD, DO is more accurate to what DOs are and it has several benefits for international medicine as well as opening OMT to a wider audience.
 
Thanks. Good luck to you too. I saw your long post read it. Just did not want to respond to everything since I felt it would be made into a serious convo. You make good points, and I can tell you mean the best for osteopathic medicine. The profession needs people like you. Sorry that I do not have the time to write more...

No problem...I can understand not having the time.

I'm sure I'll see you in a future conversation ;)
 
False. he went by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still. at this point, i've just come to expect incorrect information from this poster. anyway, read Norman Gevitz' The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America

Really? Which chapter and section did you read this info in Gevitz' book?
 
Really? Which chapter and section did you read this info in Gevitz' book?

in the first few chapters. pick it up. it was honestly a good read.

and OP, go international DO. it's the road less traveled. robert frost might just approve. lol. no, but seriously, stay in the states! who wants to go to europe or australia anyway? blech!
 
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in the first few chapters. pick it up. it was honestly a good read.

and OP, go international DO. it's the road less traveled. robert frost might just approve. lol. no, but seriously, stay in the states! who wants to go to europe or australia anyway? blech!

You didn't read that book, did you? Nowhere in that book talks about that Dr. Still didn't use MD, DO. And, you're applying to DO schools? Huh..:cool:

Stop responding to my posts in everywhere. It makes you look more stupid.

At least, let me help you teach something goodies about the founder of the DO profession, if you will. Go check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Taylor_Still

Ahh, you cannot read. Sorry.

So, why not letting me have you read below excerpt from the above link (hint: read the bolded part):

Andrew Taylor Still, M.D., D.O. (August 6, 1828 – December 12, 1917) is considered the father of osteopathy and osteopathic medicine.[1] He was also a physician & surgeon,[2][3] author,[4][5] inventor and Kansas territorial & state legislator.[6] He was one of the founders of Baker University,[7] the oldest 4-year college in the state of Kansas, and was the founder of the American School of Osteopathy (now A.T. Still University), the world's first osteopathic medical school, in Kirksville, Missouri.​
 
You didn't read that book, did you? Nowhere in that book talks about that Dr. Still didn't use MD, DO. And, you're applying to DO schools? Huh..:cool:

Stop responding to my posts in everywhere. It makes you look more stupid.

At least, let me help you teach something goodies about the founder of the DO profession, if you will. Go check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Taylor_Still

Ahh, you cannot read. Sorry.

So, why not letting me have you read below excerpt from the above link (hint: read the bolded part):

Andrew Taylor Still, M.D., D.O. (August 6, 1828 – December 12, 1917) is considered the father of osteopathy and osteopathic medicine.[1] He was also a physician & surgeon,[2][3] author,[4][5] inventor and Kansas territorial & state legislator.[6] He was one of the founders of Baker University,[7] the oldest 4-year college in the state of Kansas, and was the founder of the American School of Osteopathy (now A.T. Still University), the world's first osteopathic medical school, in Kirksville, Missouri.​

A Wikipedia link is not considered proof.
 
A Wikipedia link is not considered proof.

You don't know what you're talking about. All annotations in that wikipedia are legit. Until you check them all, just shut up.
 
Well, no, he's not correct. I don't mind that he has an opinion on the matter...but

First, its almost happened already, at TCOM. It was opposed only by groups who hold grudges that should be in the past. I am disappointed in those groups, they let their emotions cheaper their position.

Second, for US DOs to become an international force, we they should be able to, and MD, DO (medical doctor with a diploma in Osteopathy) would not only be more clear and honest, it would make it easier for us to serve abroad.

Third, as you even stated, holistic theory, while a hallmark of Osteopathic Medicine, is not limited to it. MDs are free to practice holistically, and patients don't need a degree to decide if their doc is one way or the other...there will always be both on both side, so that responsibility still resides with the patient, if they care.

Fourth, a real difference is that DOs have OMM. If OMM is good, and positive, then its should be open for all those who wish to learn and practice it. Why make a treatment exclusive? This is very detrimental.

There can still be DO schools, there can still be the AOA... but US DOs aren't Osteopaths...they are medical doctors with additional training in Osteopathic philosophy and medicine.

The only reason for separation still is maybe pride, resistance to change, faulty knowledge...cant think of any good reasons




people are thinking way to short sightedly if they think this will *never* happen...I mean, I haven't even begun to fight

(you know this was how it was in the beginning too...AT Still MD, DO)

Just something to think about

I thought the whole TCOM issue was about opening an MD school in addition to the DO school.

I see your reasoning, but understand the underlying power struggle. What you are suggesting would essentially involve the phasing out of the concept of "osteopathic physician". It may also lead questions about who should accredit medical schools, which may result in the expansion of power of the LCME over the medical component in all medical schools and the limitation of the scope of COCA to just the manipulative component. At a point in time where DOs have all the practice rights of MDs in the US, why would the AOA ever agree to give up power it already has? I honestly think they would much rather spend their time trying to get other countries to recognize the DO degree.
 
You don't know what you're talking about. All annotations in that wikipedia are legit. Until you check them all, just shut up.

So, can you point to *where* in that Wikipedia link A.T. Still was awarded an MD degree?
 
So, can you point to *where* in that Wikipedia link A.T. Still was awarded an MD degree?

Give me a break.. seriously? You didn't check the link, at all?
 
Give me a break.. seriously? You didn't check the link, at all?
tkim is correct. Wikipedia is not a valid source unless you can cross reference it with a valid source. Anyone has the ability to edit a Wikipedia page. Plus, do you know that you are arguing with an attending physician? I would think that tkim has more experience and knowledge than you. Please be kind to others and leave this type of emotional discussion for another outlet.
 
I don't think it really matter what degrees AT Still received...any comparison to what either degree is today is apples to oranges.

Also, when arguing the validity of Wikipedia, I don't think attending status adds any further credibility. ;) just saying...so if an attending wants to come and argue with a pre med in a pre med forum about Wikipedia, there are certain condescensions that must be assumed by that attending... ;) lol
 
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