USA DO vs International DO
Started by VBGLL
Not really - pointing to a wikipedia article as proof of your position is sad. Repeatedly not answering the question posed may be viewed as the inability to answer the question.
This is not about an attending deigning to plow through the pre- forums schooling the pre-s about life. I don't think you'll find that I mentioned my status once in this thread, and I certainly did not make the 'appeal to authority' fallacy in my posts. You certainly raised the 'strawman', though.
I simply asked, 'where did Still get awarded by MD'? Haven't gotten the answer. You know why? Because he wasn't awarded an MD. He billed himself as a physician after apprenticeship like the majority of physicians of the time. In fact, the only people who refer to Still as MD, DO are all the people who came after him.
http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=20061
"AT Still, MD, DO
Utksmiley asked why Dr. Andrew Still is referred to as "Andrew Still, M.D., D.O." on the AOA Web site. I believe this question also came up last year on Dr. Ajluni's blog, but here's a recap for those of you who missed it:
Dr. Still did not go MD, DO. In fact, he did not use credentials after his name at all.
He was awarded an honorary DO degree in the early 1900s, and to acknowledge his MD roots and honor his osteopathic ones, he is now identified as MD, DO.
As an aside, there isn't any proof that Dr. Still ever attended a medical school. Still National Osteopathic Museum says he probably got his MD like a lot of people then - by apprenticeship."
http://www.atsu.edu/museum/index.htm#bio
"It was about this time that he decided to become a physician. It was common practice in those days for a would-be doctor to train by studying medical books and working with a practicing physician -- in this case, his father. He may have received additional, formal training at a school in Kansas City, but no records remain to establish where and when this training took place."
He had every right to call himself a physician since he underwent training common at that time - apprenticeship. But there was no MD awarded. Hell, even his DO was an honorary degree. This "MD, DO" is shorthand for modern people to help understand that Still was part of 'mainstream' medicine at the time, yet also the founder of an alternative pathway.
In some ways, it's also the osteopathic communities' way of legitimizing osteopathic medicine as something that was discovered by an allopathic practitioner. The insecurity goes back so far ...
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Hey tkim...yeah, I didn't call you out here. As you may notice, I didn't quote any comment of yours. You never once played the authority, or were dismissive of the status person you debated. And I never stated that you did...I think your comment to me is misguided.
If you look at my comment, I was letting the other fellow here know that your status it doesn't matter in the least in this argument.(and wouldn't you agree?) He was one to point it out...I called him out on it and he was ok with that. I see where he was coming from, we disagreed and then moved on. So, sorry you took offense (or misunderstood?) my comment, but it really didn't have anything to do with your arguments, neither did I ever say that you had a flaw in your argument.
Ill explain my position again though, I don't really think it matters if AT Still had an MD a DO both, neither...what does influence does that bit of knowledge have on medicine toady?
So, feel free to carry on with your discussion if you want...Im just a bystander in this one
aspDO, that long reply was the best reply i have ever received. then on top of that, you started arguing with a DO attending? AND then on top of even that, you say this?
"You don't know what you're talking about. All annotations in that wikipedia are legit. Until you check them all, just shut up. "
LOL. are you serious, dude?
fyi, i was a history major in college a few years ago. that book was required reading for my history of medicine class. not that i have to prove info in that book. you can honestly just go through it yourself. and not that tkim needs my seal of approval, but every single one of his replies are spot on.
in any case, asp, the degree change that you wish for..isn't happening anytime soon. so re-consider DO schools if you think that change is gonna happen.
ps. i keep having to reply to you because you are consistently spreading false information on here. and yeah, i'm applying to DO schools. that doesn't mean that i have to falsify osteopathic history.
"You don't know what you're talking about. All annotations in that wikipedia are legit. Until you check them all, just shut up. "
LOL. are you serious, dude?
fyi, i was a history major in college a few years ago. that book was required reading for my history of medicine class. not that i have to prove info in that book. you can honestly just go through it yourself. and not that tkim needs my seal of approval, but every single one of his replies are spot on.
in any case, asp, the degree change that you wish for..isn't happening anytime soon. so re-consider DO schools if you think that change is gonna happen.
ps. i keep having to reply to you because you are consistently spreading false information on here. and yeah, i'm applying to DO schools. that doesn't mean that i have to falsify osteopathic history.
Just as an aside, it's ok to talk about a degree change...other than that, our comment is probably warranted.
I'm not sold one way or the other, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that discussion
I'm not sold one way or the other, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that discussion
Definitely. For those that are knowledgeable of the history of medicine would know that medicine has evolved for both osteopathic and allopathic approaches over the last several years.
Why do we care what A.T. Still called himself again? It's frankly irrelevant, given the fact that nearly two centuries have changed the very landscape of medicine and what DO's even do. If A.T. Still were born today he would be a regular MD ( Barring a low mcat score) and have never experienced any of the things that drove him to create a distinction. It as such that the distinction and the separation, is no longer necessary and it is simply easier to be held under the same medical degree.
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I'm 100% positive that you have serious mental problems. Please, go seek professional help.
Come on now...no use in further debating this.
let not ruin a thread...
let not ruin a thread...
+1.
MedicinaeDoctor has just started responding with meaningless comments to all of my recent posts. S/he tells s/he assumed this as a responsibility 😱. Way to go, then... 😴
Freedom of expressing your thoughts is everyone's right. Some of the attending DOs, along with many DO school students and pre-med DOs, have recognized the approaching thread of being defeated from the medical profession in the future by MD world, and started to battle against it for the good of all of us. I'm telling that I'll be 100% supporting this effort to go with the name "MD, DO", just like MD MBA, MD JD, MD MPH. What's wrong with it?
Stop bullying and keep things low.
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Excellent question! The confusion is DO vs DO = Dr. of Osteopathic Medicine and Diplomat of Osteopathy. To keep the confusion down to a very low roar well call American Trained Osteopathic Physicians (who have ALL the same practice rights as an MD) ATOPs and Diplomat will stand for Diplomat of Osteopathy.
There are about 50 countries outside of the USA that recognizes ATOPS. The main and very big difference between ATOPs and Diplomats is that ATOPs have a medical training background (just like MDs) that includes anywhere from an additional 200-2000 hours in OPP & OMT (osteopathic practice and principals, and osteopathic manipulation therapy) the Diplomats only have the OPP & OMT part. The USA is the only country at present that trains ATOPs; Diplomats are mostly trained in the UK.
This link is a little dated: http://www.westernu.edu/bin/ime/international-practice-rights.pdf but it shows you some of the countries that recognize ATOPs.
This link will give you the full history of the division between DO (ATOPs) and DO (Diplomat) http://history.osteopathic.org/
The West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine offers international rotations for 3rd and 4th year students.
There are about 50 countries outside of the USA that recognizes ATOPS. The main and very big difference between ATOPs and Diplomats is that ATOPs have a medical training background (just like MDs) that includes anywhere from an additional 200-2000 hours in OPP & OMT (osteopathic practice and principals, and osteopathic manipulation therapy) the Diplomats only have the OPP & OMT part. The USA is the only country at present that trains ATOPs; Diplomats are mostly trained in the UK.
This link is a little dated: http://www.westernu.edu/bin/ime/international-practice-rights.pdf but it shows you some of the countries that recognize ATOPs.
This link will give you the full history of the division between DO (ATOPs) and DO (Diplomat) http://history.osteopathic.org/
The West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine offers international rotations for 3rd and 4th year students.
Excellent question! The confusion is DO vs DO = Dr. of Osteopathic Medicine and Diplomat of Osteopathy. To keep the confusion down to a very low roar well call American Trained Osteopathic Physicians (who have ALL the same practice rights as an MD) ATOPs and Diplomat will stand for Diplomat of Osteopathy.
There are about 50 countries outside of the USA that recognizes ATOPS. The main and very big difference between ATOPs and Diplomats is that ATOPs have a medical training background (just like MDs) that includes anywhere from an additional 200-2000 hours in OPP & OMT (osteopathic practice and principals, and osteopathic manipulation therapy) the Diplomats only have the OPP & OMT part. The USA is the only country at present that trains ATOPs; Diplomats are mostly trained in the UK.
This link is a little dated: http://www.westernu.edu/bin/ime/international-practice-rights.pdf but it shows you some of the countries that recognize ATOPs.
This link will give you the full history of the division between DO (ATOPs) and DO (Diplomat) http://history.osteopathic.org/
The West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine offers international rotations for 3rd and 4th year students.
DOs are considered second class physicians but I still want to become one.
