Usacs partner shares

[EctopicFetus]

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Someone posted on here that they aren’t paying their partner dividends. Anyone willing to give some details. Usacs is the crappiest cmg imo. App which is up and coming isn’t too far behind them in being a dump. Tons of no em admins.

 

[alphaholic06]

Agreed! USACS is a bag of flaming ****. APP is well on their to surpassing them. They're a bunch of monkeys flinging ****.

 

[emergentmd]

From what I have seen with USACS, they truly are the vultures of CMGs. Never have and Never will work for them.

 

[GeneralVeers]

From what I have seen with USACS, they truly are the vultures of CMGs. Never have and Never will work for them.

It would be nice if residents in training could get instruction from their attendings on pay, contracts etc. The fact that residencies graduate doctors who are ignorant of even a basic understanding of these important aspects is shameful.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

It would be nice if residents in training could get instruction from their attendings on pay, contracts etc. The fact that residencies graduate doctors who are ignorant of even a basic understanding of these important aspects is shameful.

It's pretty bad.

There are faculty at the academic program I trained at that don't know what the term "CMG" means

 

[NYEMMED]

Someone posted on here that they aren’t paying their partner dividends. Anyone willing to give some details. Usacs is the crappiest cmg imo. App which is up and coming isn’t too far behind them in being a dump. Tons of no em admins.

Exactly what it sounds like.
They have not provided a valuation of the shares since becoming USACS and no longer EMP (nobody knows what they are worth). No payments have been distributed since becoming USACS
The company claims it had some bad years and only broke even, therefore no profit shares to distribute. (I'm sure however the C-Suite got their bonuses)

 

[emergentmd]

USACS preying on the ignorance of doctors who are too lazy to do a quick internet search.

Stock only has value if you can sell it to someone. Can someone tell me where I can buy a USACS share?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Phantom stock programs. Gotta love it. But don't buy in unless you want to give away your money while also feeling tied to the company.

USACS preying on the ignorance of doctors who are too lazy to do a quick internet search.

Stock only has value if you can sell it to someone. Can someone tell me where I can buy a USACS share?

 

[Groove]

All the CMGs seem to be offering physician invested equity programs to some degree. Apollo has something similar....It's called ApolloMD Ownership program or something similar. They sell stocks that are supposedly undergo valuation by an independent third party. You can buy up to 10K shares per year. At certain times of the year, they really push it. You'll get emails encouraging you to take advantage of the program, blah blah. They guarantee 8% annualized growth. As much as I despise these types of programs, you have to hand it to them (all CMGs)... they are masters at getting money out of their workers. It's absolutely brilliant to figure out a way to raise capital from none other than your slaves working down in the pit! Brilliant. Some docs really buy into these things and are maxing out their investment each year. Here's the problem:

1) Lack of transparency, regulation, fiduciary liability, etc.. - Your money isn't regulated or protected like it is in the open market. If the company files for bankruptcy, gets bought out or goes belly up, you can kiss your money goodbye. Don't believe me? Just look at some of these USACS docs, or any of the docs who fled to TX to work for Neighbors FSEDs before they filed for bankruptcy. I know one doc personally who invested 250K and got $0 back.

2) Non tax-deferred - If you haven't maxed out your SEP or 401K, why on earth would someone want to invest in a non tax deferred vehicle? It makes no sense and I see docs doing this all the time.

3) Psychological indentureship - Part of our power over these companies is the sheer breadth of options available to us on any given day. Most of us could quit working in one ER and go to work in another at a moment's notice with no sweat off our back. Worst case scenario? We could jump on a plane and start doing locums virtually anywhere with little to no effort other than a phone call to a staffing agency, signing a contract and filling out the obligatory paperwork for credentialing. Recruiting and hiring us is not easy. We hold all the cards for the most part... Meaning that if the CMG doesn't make us happy or foster an enjoyable work place environment, assuage any fears we have about fair compensation for our efforts, etc.. then we simply can turn in our notice and find another job anywhere we want. We have no patients to follow us, no office space leases to terminate, no secretaries or MAs to fire, etc.. I don't know about you guys but that gives me a tremendous amount off psychological confidence and control over my personal destiny. That's perhaps, the biggest reason I don't invest in CMG equity offerings. Because you're not really getting any equity. You don't own anything. And the more money you have tied up in the CMG, the more psychological control they have over you. You've got 100K invested in their ownership "stock offering"? They know you aren't going anywhere. You almost can't help yourself but be emotionally invested in the company. After all, they've got your money! It's just difficult to think straight or to evaluate your position with any real objectivity. You lose negotiating and leveraging power. Want to re-negotiate a 3yr contract for a small additional sign on? Why should they do that? You've got 100K invested in their equity program. That's additional assurances to them that you aren't really considering another job, you're just bluffing and they are more likely to call you on that bluff given that scenario.

Now, I'm not hating on all these companies for offering the stock equity programs in the first place. Hell, IT IS extremely smart from a business perspective and I can't blame them for doing it. However, the only equity or stock offering I would ever do would be for a private SDG with REAL equity ownership. You simply aren't going to get that working for any CMG.

 

[NYEMMED]

Exactly what it sounds like.
They have not provided a valuation of the shares since becoming USACS and no longer EMP (nobody knows what they are worth). No payments have been distributed since becoming USACS
The company claims it had some bad years and only broke even, therefore no profit shares to distribute. (I'm sure however the C-Suite got their bonuses)

I forgot to mention as Groove eluded too, The USACS shares do not come free. They make you pay all of the taxes on all of the "shares" earned over 5 years at the end of your 2nd year of employment when you are first eligible for 25% of the "Shares".

They don't mention the "taxes" on this is 70K-80K due at the end of your 2nd year of employment, this money and shares are not refunded if you were to leave the company. Therefore you are invested 80k deep and if you leave, you lose it all.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

assurances

People who "invest" in these scams are other worlds level of stupid.

Multiply this by 1000 if you do this before maxing out tax advantaged accounts.

This is why we lose.

 

[Xerxes1729]

Is the pitch with these that you'll make money off of dividends? Or is it that the shares will increase on value and you sell them back when you leave?

 

[Groove]

Is the pitch with these that you'll make money off of dividends? Or is it that the shares will increase on value and you sell them back when you leave?

It's different with each company. Some pay dividends, others pay profit sharing, others sell it as a quasi "stock" that will appreciate in value, etc..

I view them all the same...glorified pyramid schemes.

 

[Uranium678]

I am pretty ignorant about the whole process. When you work for USACS do you automatically get the shares if you stay for 2 years? I saw above that you pay taxes but is that the only fee? Do you have to buy in? What’s the benefit of paying all that money if no profit share?

 

[NYEMMED]

I am pretty ignorant about the whole process. When you work for USACS do you automatically get the shares if you stay for 2 years? I saw above that you pay taxes but is that the only fee? Do you have to buy in? What’s the benefit of paying all that money if no profit share?

At the end of your 2nd year you get 25% of your shares, if you stay for 5 years you get 100%.
You must pay the tax 70-80k, and accept the shares at the end of your 2nd year to continue working for the company.
You are supposed to get a yearly disbursement of money from your shares, but that hasn’t happened in about 5 years

 

[thegenius]

At the end of your 2nd year you get 25% of your shares, if you stay for 5 years you get 100%.
You must pay the tax 70-80k, and accept the shares at the end of your 2nd year to continue working for the company.
You are supposed to get a yearly disbursement of money from your shares, but that hasn’t happened in about 5 years

🤔

 

[GeneralVeers]

🤔

You pay 70-80K in tax but get no disbursement? This sounds like fraud, unless they can pay you the value of shares on demand which would be about $400K based on the tax rate.

 

[DO3]

If what has been said on here is correct, this is crazy. How can someone force you to pay taxes on something (shares) you don’t even have yet?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

They're not real shares anyway, so the whole thing is bull****.

If what has been said on here is correct, this is crazy. How can someone force you to pay taxes on something (shares) you don’t even have yet?

 

[EctopicFetus]

If what has been said on here is correct, this is crazy. How can someone force you to pay taxes on something (shares) you don’t even have yet?

The govt “forces” you to pay taxes. USACS just does the accounting in a way that makes you do it sooner.

 

[Not Pudding]

This just in, the "award winning 401k benefit package" at USACS is taking a massive hit.

Now the match is 3%, below the national median of 4%, until you meet an hour requirement. Then it jumps up to the old match.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Might as well just be an independent contractor and get the tax benefit while maxing our 401k

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

This just in, the "award winning 401k benefit package" at USACS is taking a massive hit.

Now the match is 3%, below the national median of 4%, until you meet an hour requirement. Then it jumps up to the old match.

It used to be 10% when they were EMP right?

 

[Not Pudding]

Was 13%/max contribution 34K, then in 2016 they dropped it to 10%/max contribution 26K.

 

[EctopicFetus]

IN the end you have to just add it to an hourly rate. If they cut your pay by 10% but gave you a 10% match on the new amount would you be happier? (you shouldnt cause you would be out money).

USACS is a business and their goal is to maximize their profit so the old gold chain and Co. can sip fine bourbon while you slave away on nights.

 

[NYEMMED]

IN the end you have to just add it to an hourly rate. If they cut your pay by 10% but gave you a 10% match on the new amount would you be happier? (you shouldnt cause you would be out money).

USACS is a business and their goal is to maximize their profit so the old gold chain and Co. can sip fine bourbon while you slave away on nights.

Haha it really pissed me off when the VP of the company was showing off his million dollar Ohio state football tailgate vehicle. It was a ambulance that he bought and converted, inside are leather couches, big screen TV, a BBQ, small toilet, big fridge, a kegerator with electric tap, and a full bar. Custom paint job on the outside.

This was shown off right after a salary and benefits cut a few years ago.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Haha it really pissed me off when the VP of the company was showing off his million dollar Ohio state football tailgate vehicle. It was a ambulance that he bought and converted, inside are leather couches, big screen TV, a BBQ, small toilet, big fridge, a kegerator with electric tap, and a full bar. Custom paint job on the outside.

This was shown off right after a salary and benefits cut a few years ago.

Crooks

 

[GeneralVeers]

Why don't more employers just do a full employer 401K match? I'd rather have that than the equivalent taxable W2 wages.

 

[bravotwozero]

Wouldn’t that mean more money out of their pockets?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Why don't more employers just do a full employer 401K match? I'd rather have that than the equivalent taxable W2 wages.

Why? I would rather it in my hourly so I can decide where it goes.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Haha it really pissed me off when the VP of the company was showing off his million dollar Ohio state football tailgate vehicle. It was a ambulance that he bought and converted, inside are leather couches, big screen TV, a BBQ, small toilet, big fridge, a kegerator with electric tap, and a full bar. Custom paint job on the outside.

This was shown off right after a salary and benefits cut a few years ago.

You can be tone deaf when you are the king and the peons have no options and drink your special brand of kool aid.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Why? I would rather it in my hourly so I can decide where it goes.

No because if you are W2 you can't contribute above the IRS max for personal contribution. We will all be maxed out anyway due to our salary. I'd rather have the employer match me to top me up to $55K as it would be tax free. If they pay me as W2 wages, I pay 35% on all of it.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

True but also as an employee they may put it in funds that offer a 3-5% load and yearly fees on top of that.

I would never go back to being an employee.

 

[RustedFox]

Haha it really pissed me off when the VP of the company was showing off his million dollar Ohio state football tailgate vehicle. It was a ambulance that he bought and converted, inside are leather couches, big screen TV, a BBQ, small toilet, big fridge, a kegerator with electric tap, and a full bar. Custom paint job on the outside.

This was shown off right after a salary and benefits cut a few years ago.

I've said it once before, but it bears repeating (apologies to Jack White).

What USACS has done is unforgivable. Everyone needs to NOT work for them and drive them out of the land.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I've said it once before, but it bears repeating (apologies to Jack White).

What USACS has done is unforgivable. Everyone needs to NOT work for them and drive them out of the land.

But they won't. There are enough naive new grads who don't get any business education out of residency who will go work for these guys. Dominic preys on these new grads, which is why they have the big expensive parties at ACEP.

 

[KGflyboy]

I chose a SDG for my first big person job. I think I might have made a huge mistake had I not followed this forum and signed to work for a CMG. The local CMG was offering a huge signing bonus. Instead, I found a group that will likely allow me to not get burnt out so quickly.

The pay is similar prior to partner compared to the CMG jobs around, so I think I found a good one.

I knew someone in residency who signed with a SDG making $115/hr for the first couple years. Pay gradually increased over 5-7 years until you were a full partner. No thank you.

I'm not sure which is worse, a predatory SDG or USACs. I chose neither.

 

[NYEMMED]

I chose a SDG for my first big person job. I think I might have made a huge mistake had I not followed this forum and signed to work for a CMG. The local CMG was offering a huge signing bonus. Instead, I found a group that will likely allow me to not get burnt out so quickly.

The pay is similar prior to partner compared to the CMG jobs around, so I think I found a good one.

I knew someone in residency who signed with a SDG making $115/hr for the first couple years. Pay gradually increased over 5-7 years until you were a full partner. No thank you.

I'm not sure which is worse, a predatory SDG or USACs. I chose neither.

Predatory SDG is just as bad.
I had one offer me half the local going rate, plus a majority of nights, weekends, holidays, in comparison to the partners.

The sell from them was you do it now for 2-3 years then maybe make partner and then you don’t have to do it, we will get some other young doc to do it

 

[Porfirio]

The benefit of a CMG is you know they are the devil. The risk of a SDG is you don’t know they are the devil until that buyout money is put in their face.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

That sounds like a **** 401k. Ours has a couple of 4-5 basis point Vanguard funds, but also a full brokerage window (Fidelity and Schwab offer these, maybe others) where I direct the full 401k funding and allocate to my choice of index funds, again all at 10 or fewer basis points.

True but also as an employee they may put it in funds that offer a 3-5% load and yearly fees on top of that.

I would never go back to being an employee.

 

[devlyyn]

There is so much misinformation in this thread. Basically after 2 years you're eligible for a share grant valued at $75k that vests over 4 years. You have to pay taxes on the full $75k up front based on your tax bracket. This is an IRS thing not a USACS thing. You can decline the shares if you so choose. The 401k (fidelity) is a 10% contribution by USACS (not a match) up to the maximum allowed by law. Part timers are even eligible for this provided you work at least 1000 hrs in a year.

 

[BoardingDoc]

There is so much misinformation in this thread. Basically after 2 years you're eligible for a share grant valued at $75k that vests over 4 years. You have to pay taxes on the full $75k up front based on your tax bracket.

How does one convert said shares into dollars? Do these shares appreciate in value? If so, how does one track this? Is there a market for said shares? Or are you being given a product that they say is worth 75k, with no way of objectively valuing said product?

 

[KGflyboy]

There is so much misinformation in this thread. Basically after 2 years you're eligible for a share grant valued at $75k that vests over 4 years. You have to pay taxes on the full $75k up front based on your tax bracket. This is an IRS thing not a USACS thing. You can decline the shares if you so choose. The 401k (fidelity) is a 10% contribution by USACS (not a match) up to the maximum allowed by law. Part timers are even eligible for this provided you work at least 1000 hrs in a year.

I don't understand. What do you mean by "vests?" How would one sell these shares? Can you sell them after 2 years for a pro-rated value? Do you have to wait the full 4 years? Does the value of the shares increase over time, and if so how is the value of the shares determined?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Phantom stock programs...

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

There is so much misinformation in this thread. Basically after 2 years you're eligible for a share grant valued at $75k that vests over 4 years. You have to pay taxes on the full $75k up front based on your tax bracket. This is an IRS thing not a USACS thing. You can decline the shares if you so choose. The 401k (fidelity) is a 10% contribution by USACS (not a match) up to the maximum allowed by law. Part timers are even eligible for this provided you work at least 1000 hrs in a year.

Lol

 

[GeneralVeers]

I don't understand. What do you mean by "vests?" How would one sell these shares? Can you sell them after 2 years for a pro-rated value? Do you have to wait the full 4 years? Does the value of the shares increase over time, and if so how is the value of the shares determined?

When I left USACS (now EMP) there was the choice of "cashing out" your stock either immediately or over 3 years. If you chose immediately then they subtracted a 40% penalty. By paying out yearly they would pay the entire amount in installments. I believe at the time I got paid out $40K or so over 3 years.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

40% penalty lolllllllllll

Of course I can't laugh, I'm still nearly 3 years away from my quarter million buy in

Banking on the SDG route. If it's a pyramid scheme, isn't there a chance to be at the top of the pyramid?

 

[RustedFox]

40% penalty lolllllllllll

Of course I can't laugh, I'm still nearly 3 years away from my quarter million buy in

Banking on the SDG route. If it's a pyramid scheme, isn't there a chance to be at the top of the pyramid?

Sometimes there's not.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Meh

that's not how I choose to view the pyramid

100% chance of getting screwed by CMG

X% chance of being screwed by SDG

where X is something not 100%, but not known

I'll take my chances

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Meh

that's not how I choose to view the pyramid

100% chance of getting screwed by CMG

X% chance of being screwed by SDG

where X is something not 100%, but not known

I'll take my chances

Your thinking is incorrect.

CMGs don't necessarily screw their workers. I have a contract with them and they pay me x per hour. That's not a screwing.

A screwing is putting in sweat equity and paying 250k and then your senior partners selling the group.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Different strokes, different folks

I don't want to be an employee. A nobody. I want to be an owner. Our group has tremendous say in what goes on, both in the ED and in the hospital system at large. When you own something, I feel, you take better care of it. Employees can muck up the place and come and go as they please.

And for all the distrust on this site of CMGs, ACEP, etc, I'm surprised so few people actually break away and actually, you know, stop being an employee.

I don't believe my thinking is "incorrect." You assume they sell out. They've been around for 40 years. Sure, they could sell tomorrow. But what if they don't? Spending my entire life worrying about something that may or may not happen is a useless endeavor in my mind. I might get hit by another car when I go to work today, why should I even go outside? I might choke on food, why eat? Much of life is accepting risk, I am willing to accept more than you are.