USC-Keck vs. Cornell

[pugpy_dawg]

** disclaimer: posting this for someone without an SDN account, this is not me**

East-coast born and raised. I have no clue what I want to do, but I’m leaning surgical and more specifically orthopedic surgery, simply because I feel it might fit my personality the most. Therefore, entering medical school aiming for that. Also important to note that it’s not important at all for me to be close to my family. I also have no clue where I want to be for residency in terms of east vs west coast (definitely nowhere in the middle). I say east coast now b/c that’s where I’m from, but if I love cali, I wouldn’t mind matching out there I guess. If I didn’t go to medical school in cali, I’d definitely want to match out there for a change I think. No aid from either school. To put it bluntly, my heart and gut say USC; my brain and my future career say Cornell.


Cornell ($373k)

Pros:
+1.5 Pre-clinical Period
+Upper East Side, nicer area of NYC
+ NewYork-Presbyterian is a very renowned hospital system
+ 6 months protected research time
+ Smaller class size of ~100 —> More opportunities available?
+ HSS, MSK, Rockefeller — Don’t know much about research but affiliations with these institutions seem to make Cornell a research powerhouse
+ P/F (except pre-clinical grades are kept track of in order to break ties for AOA)
+ivy-league name, higher ranked

Cons:
-NYC … I lived just outside the city, but I actually haven’t been to it much … the few times my impressions have been dirty, overcrowded, loud, overwhelming … although UES was kind of nice
-Malignant reptuation (esp. NYP), although most current students claim this to not be the case … I mean more more than half of the people on my interview day went to an ivy-league undergrad
-Interview day sucked … but I heard this isn’t uncommon? I heard they usually do a better job at 2nd look but … COVID19
-AOA (could potentially breed competition, especially once clerkships role around)
-Gym is kinda old and beat down (I haven’t seen the the other one in the newer student apartment style housing)

Neutral:
~Weekly quizzes … I think I would do a decent job holding myself accountable but I also wouldn’t mind having a goal in mind each week to force me to be even more accountable … plus p/f so it’s not even that big of a deal and I heard they weren’t stressful
~Match list isn’t quite what I would expect for a ivy-league name. All the matches are great where they match, but seems like a small number of competitive speciality matches (though I’ve expressed this concern and this seems to be more of a product of personal student interests and not the schools ability to get you where you want to be)


USC-Keck ($402K)

Pros
+ LA … really want a chance to live in California at some point … it kind of excites me. This seems like my chance!
+ LAC/Keck Hospital/Children’s for clerkships — everyone says the clinical experience you get at Keck is really phenomenal, especially at LAC (get to do a little more, perhaps see “crazier” things)
+ P/F (however, grades are kept track off and play a factor only when determining AOA)
+ Possibly opening up the West coast for me in terms of residency matching? Meaning I have both the east/west coast to match, objectively increasing my chances of getting interviews and matching SOMEWHERE decent?
+ Still very good research opportunities, though obviously not as strong as Cornell. Scholarly project first two years and the ability to do 8 weeks of research as an elective during M3/M4.
+ Really loved my interview day here … vibed with everyone so well, and Dean Arias rocks … seems like she, and thus the school, really cares about it students. I think here is where I’ll be the HAPPIEST.
+Access to both grad/undergraduate gym, which are both super nice!

Cons
-AOA (could potentially breed competition, especially once clerkships role around … might even play a role preclinical? … but currents students have also denied these concerns).
-Lower ranked than Cornell (by ~19 spots in USNWR but only ~11 spots in most recent PD rankings)

Neutral
~2+2 traditional curriculum. Obviously, I’d prefer a 1.5, but I wouldn’t say a 2+2 is a con for me.
~Bigger body of student ~180-190 …. Neutral b/c not necessarily a bad thing, but I am concerned about competition for resources?
~No more seasons. I really liked fall. Winter can go off itself.
~I don’t know much about Cali geography, but USC is apparently not in the best area of LA… I don’t think I plan to spend that much time right outside of the campus though lol.

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[billybean]

Go with Cornell. It is slightly cheaper, higher ranked, and HSS is right around the corner if you want to pursue Ortho. Also, don't pay such close attention to the match lists. Cornell is a powerhouse and it won't stop you from matching anywhere.

 

[A_Knowbody]

USC-Keck ($402K)
Pros
+ I think here is where I’ll be the HAPPIEST.

Enough said. Everything else seems fairly comparable. AOA is a con for both programs. Your only con is a slightly lower ranking. Many of your neutrals for USC are pros for Cornell, making Cornell's pros seem less important.

 

[deleted972488]

Tough choice but that means there's no wrong choice.

The difference in cost is pretty small, so the two main factors you're considering are prestige and happiness. I think I'd personally choose happiness.

 

[Davidfromcali]

Based on your cons, it looks like you definitely prefer USC. Both schools are gonna keep all the doors open for you. The difference in prestige isn’t substantial.

If you’d be happier at USC, then you’d be best set going there. LA is definitely an awesome place to experience as well!

 

[nymedschoolfan]

Doesn't sound like you are a fan of Cornell at all and much prefer USC. Look at the historic match lists for the past few years for Ortho...
2019 Cornell
HSS
Penn
NYU
Pitt

2018 Cornell
Penn
Einstein
Columbia
USC

2019 USC
UC San Francisco-Fresno
University of Southern California
University of Southern California
UC Irvine Medical Center
Stanford University Programs
Jackson Memorial Hospital
Northwestern McGaw Medical Center
Northwestern McGaw Medical Center
Massachusetts General Hospital
Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center-Lubbock
University of Washington Affiliate Hospitals

2018 USC

Orthopaedic Surgery	McLaren Regional Medical Center	Flint	MI
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Rochester/Strong Memorial	Rochester	NY
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Southern California	Los Angeles	CA
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Texas Southwestern Medical School	Dallas	TX
Orthopaedic Surgery	Yale-New Haven Hospital	New Haven	CT

You are going to have put in more work at USC to stand out among your 10-15 classmates matching into ortho, and the connections at HSS will clearly get you into the program of your choice. Also USC as an institution has a questionable reputation.. But if your heart says USC and you'd be miserable at Cornell, go to USC. Obvs I'm biased bc I'm from CA, and I chose Cornell over USC also hoping to go into ortho.

 

[Btech305]

Doesn't sound like you are a fan of Cornell at all and much prefer USC. Look at the historic match lists for the past few years for Ortho...
2019 Cornell
HSS
Penn
NYU
Pitt

2018 Cornell
Penn
Einstein
Columbia
USC

2019 USC
UC San Francisco-Fresno
University of Southern California
University of Southern California
UC Irvine Medical Center
Stanford University Programs
Jackson Memorial Hospital
Northwestern McGaw Medical Center
Northwestern McGaw Medical Center
Massachusetts General Hospital
Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center-Lubbock
University of Washington Affiliate Hospitals

2018 USC

Orthopaedic Surgery	McLaren Regional Medical Center	Flint	MI
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Rochester/Strong Memorial	Rochester	NY
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Southern California	Los Angeles	CA
Orthopaedic Surgery	University of Texas Southwestern Medical School	Dallas	TX
Orthopaedic Surgery	Yale-New Haven Hospital	New Haven	CT

You are going to have put in more work at USC to stand out among your 10-15 classmates matching into ortho, and the connections at HSS will clearly get you into the program of your choice. Also USC as an institution has a questionable reputation.. But if your heart says USC and you'd be miserable at Cornell, go to USC. Obvs I'm biased bc I'm from CA, and I chose Cornell over USC also hoping to go into ortho.

I think it's nice that you took the time to go through and post match data relevant to OP's interests but think your analysis leading up to your conclusions are kinda ridiculous. Ignoring the fact that matching is highly personal and playing your numbers game...Cornell has ~100 students and in the last two years matched 4 ortho spots on avg. USC has ~185 students and matched 8 ortho spots on avg the last two years. So for last two matches, 4 ortho per 100 Cornell students = 4.0% and 8 ortho matches per ~185 USC students (or 4.32 per 100 students) = 4.3%. I think the more important take from that match information is that both schools will very likely get you to where you want to go, assuming one puts the work in. And not that with USC, you necessarily need to put in more work to compete against/outshine your classmates.

 

[nymedschoolfan]

I think it's nice that you took the time to go through and post match data relevant to OP's interests but think your analysis leading up to your conclusions are kinda ridiculous. Ignoring the fact that matching is highly personal and playing your numbers game...Cornell has ~100 students and in the last two years matched 4 ortho spots on avg. USC has ~185 students and matched 8 ortho spots on avg the last two years. So for last two matches, 4 ortho per 100 Cornell students = 4.0% and 8 ortho matches per ~185 USC students (or 4.32 per 100 students) = 4.3%. I think the more important take from that match information is that both schools will very likely get you to where you want to go, assuming one puts the work in. And not that with USC, you necessarily need to put in more work to compete against/outshine your classmates.

That's fair. I would still say Cornell>USC for matching overall though, half the amount of students for more resources and less competition. But again this was an easy decision for me because:
My COA for Cornell is 150k vs USC 400k.
Bad part of LA<Quiet, residential, posh part of NYC
Interview day at USC > Interview day at Cornell but USC needs to sell pretty well as they are going to lose applicants admitted to UCs that attend a CA school for half the price.
Not needing a car>needing a car.

This person's situation is clearly different.

 

[Yhwach]

I think the objective pick is Cornell but picking a school is never 100% objective. Happiness should be a factor.

I voted Cornell btw just because for your goals and the price I think this is worth it and I don't think you would hate it there.

USC Keck has a bad rep too so I don't know why you are crucifying NYP only?

At the end do what you think is right though.

 

[DocKoozmin]

As a lot of others have said, they are two very comparable school. Go to where you’ll be happiest.

 

[Yhwach]

As a lot of others have said, they are two very comparable school. Go to where you’ll be happiest.

they arent comparable imo

 

[tessellations]

It sounds like to me, your heart is set on USC. However, if I were in your shoes, I’d choose Cornell. It’s slightly cheaper, you won’t need a car (which imo is an annoying cost to deal with in medical school), higher ranked + the ivy reputation, and gives you 6 months of protected research time which is clutch if you want to go into a competitive speciality. California isn’t going anywhere and Cornell wouldn’t hold you back from matching into residency there if that’s what you want.

All of that being said, I think you should choose where you feel you will thrive and where you will be best set up for your career.

Also wanted to add that I agree with above posters in that it’s not totally fair to point out potential malignancy issues at Cornell without pointing out that USC has also been plagued by scandals of late.

 

[TheDataKing]

If they're that close in price, I'd say go with Keck. You'll be successful from either school and LA would likely be a nicer climate than NYC (weather and how people interact with one another). I wouldn't get hung up on Cornell because of the name -sure, it's flashy and nice, but ultimately if you don't like it there, it won't mean much. Both match well into ortho and neither will hold you back as others have said. And yeah for some fun reading, look into why their cardiovascular disease fellowship is losing its accreditation this year (or don't, it isn't pretty).

 

[nymedschoolfan]

It sounds like to me, your heart is set on USC. However, if I were in your shoes, I’d choose Cornell. It’s slightly cheaper, you won’t need a car (which imo is an annoying cost to deal with in medical school), higher ranked + the ivy reputation, and gives you 6 months of protected research time which is clutch if you want to go into a competitive speciality. California isn’t going anywhere and Cornell wouldn’t hold you back from matching into residency there if that’s what you want.

All of that being said, I think you should choose where you feel you will thrive and where you will be best set up for your career.

Also wanted to add that I agree with above posters in that it’s not totally fair to point out potential malignancy issues at Cornell without pointing out that USC has also been plagued by scandals of late.

Totally agree, a dean of the medical school involved caught in meth and prostitution, an ob-gyn sexually assaulting student patients, cardiology fellows being sexually harassed and lawsuit. What an embarrassment of an institution.

 

[musician8591]

Totally agree, a dean of the medical school involved caught in meth and prostitution, an ob-gyn sexually assaulting student patients, cardiology fellows being sexually harassed and lawsuit. What an embarrassment of an institution.

Where are you guys getting this info? Google is not turning up so much in that regard.

 

[Do squat]

Where are you guys getting this info? Google is not turning up so much in that regard.

An overdose, a young companion, drug-fueled parties: The secret life of a USC med school dean

Photos and video show then-head of Keck School of Medicine partying with criminals and drug-users.

www.latimes.com