USC Pre-lim surgery ?
- Thread starter citarita
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I hate it when I don't get replies, so I'll give it a shot. My info all comes from a categorical view, and I don't know how it would differ for prelim.
One of the pretentious attendings with whom I've worked said that this was the best training in LA, second in cali to UCSF- I am not sure why/how it beats UCLA. But according to him, and other sources, the training there is good.
I met someone on the trail who interviewed at USC and he actually really liked it and liked the interview (and I talked to him alone to get the dirt)-he encouraged me to interview there for categorical. He ssemed to be highly considering it, and he seemed to be a happy outgoing guy.
For categorical they have an otpional day before the interviw that is really required, and I couldn't make it, and was less enthused about the area (really $$ or really violent) so I decided to cancel.
They do a lot of county work, so high autonomy, low funds, can be good or bad, depending on what you want and need.
UCLA has a few residents who transferred over after intern year at USC becuase it was bad for them, I think in terms of culture and morale. They wouldn't talk about it, but there eyes got weird when you asked why they moved over.
I know this might not be what you were looking for, but I hope that it puts some light on your decision!
One of the pretentious attendings with whom I've worked said that this was the best training in LA, second in cali to UCSF- I am not sure why/how it beats UCLA. But according to him, and other sources, the training there is good.
I met someone on the trail who interviewed at USC and he actually really liked it and liked the interview (and I talked to him alone to get the dirt)-he encouraged me to interview there for categorical. He ssemed to be highly considering it, and he seemed to be a happy outgoing guy.
For categorical they have an otpional day before the interviw that is really required, and I couldn't make it, and was less enthused about the area (really $$ or really violent) so I decided to cancel.
They do a lot of county work, so high autonomy, low funds, can be good or bad, depending on what you want and need.
UCLA has a few residents who transferred over after intern year at USC becuase it was bad for them, I think in terms of culture and morale. They wouldn't talk about it, but there eyes got weird when you asked why they moved over.
I know this might not be what you were looking for, but I hope that it puts some light on your decision!
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I get the impression its probably also the most malignant program in Cali.
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Well I know few guys who had a prelim year at USC (though fmg) and one guy who did full GS then CT fellowship. Can't tell you much, but my impression is that one of the malignant programs not only in Cali but nation. I know one of those guys after that year had taken a year off literally for psychological rehab. It was in 2003 though.
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Well reputed to be one of the more malignant programs in surgery - however, times do change and what you can tolerate may be more or less than the other.
As with ANY program, buyer beware.
As with ANY program, buyer beware.
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oh boo hoo...they make you work hard and don't treat you like a princess, that means they're "malignant".
med students...getting softer by the year.
med students...getting softer by the year.
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Pretty tough words...coming from a medical student.
No one ever said that working residents hard and not treating them like princesses, made a program malignant. You forget - you're talking to someone who trained before the 80 hr workweek and put up with plenty of BS.
USC has its reputation not for working its residents hard, but for insulting and humiliating them, which is uncalled for, in any program.
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They do both. I think its telling that the majority of students going into surgery from USC would rather go anywhere else.
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Well, I think it goes without saying (but obviously not, since I'm saying it 😉 ), that anyone should expect to work hard in residency program. Therefore, I don't expect that USC mostly got its rep from working its residents hard (there are plenty of other programs with work hour violations, etc. who don't have the same rep), but rather its attitude towards the residents.
But you are right in that if homegrown students aren't staying for residency, that's a big red flag.
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the thing is, sweetheart, the word "malignant" gets thrown around too easily nowadays about residency programs. it's a matter of mere opinion. surgery residency by its very nature is demanding, and what may be too demanding for one person is quickly translated into "malignant".
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An example for those to ponder the malignancy question:
Attending, fellow, resident, and med student at the end of a case. Attending demonstrates the (somewhat complex-not roman laces) way he likes the chest tube secured. Fellow attempts this novel technique, doesn't quite get it right. Attending says something like "no that's all wrong-do it again". Fellow attempts again, seems pretty close. Attending says "what are you, a f'ing idiot, if you can't get this right why the hell am I going to let you operate with me" and proceeds to secure the other chest tubes while continuing to berate the fellow for incompetence.
Attending, fellow, resident, and med student at the end of a case. Attending demonstrates the (somewhat complex-not roman laces) way he likes the chest tube secured. Fellow attempts this novel technique, doesn't quite get it right. Attending says something like "no that's all wrong-do it again". Fellow attempts again, seems pretty close. Attending says "what are you, a f'ing idiot, if you can't get this right why the hell am I going to let you operate with me" and proceeds to secure the other chest tubes while continuing to berate the fellow for incompetence.
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No, there IS a very clear difference between malignant and demanding, and that's VERY easy to see. You are simply wrong about this point.
Didn't you post several months ago about whether it was possible to work part time as a surgical attending and turf your post op patients to medicine, and now you've flipped to the other extreme of working all the time?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=253961
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=260826
Dude, take your bipolar meds.
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Did you just call Kimberli "sweetheart" ?
I don't know how long you're going to last in these forums...
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Not to mention surgery as a profession. Misterioso, you may get away with calling the occasional scrub tech "sweetheart" but you'll find yourself getting kicked out of the program in short order if you try it with a superior. Or anyone in the medical heirarchy. And *sweetie*, you getting punished for that wouldn't be considered malignant.
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To echo other's thoughts above....frankly, calling ANY woman "sweetheart" is generally not well accepted, unless you are an 80 yo man or woman who really doesn't know any better or is my grandmother. While it is considered unprofessional to call your superior by such names, I will let it slide because you have failed to show even a modicum of professionalism herewith.
However, as a modern woman, I do object to being called sweetheart by ANYONE who is old enough to know better and young enough to have not been raised that way. I suggest you learn to reign yourself and your comments in because it will get you in a lot of trouble.
OTOH, why you don't try calling one of your female surgical attendings "sweetheart" today and see what happens? Let us know!
Finally, I totally agree with toxic here - there is a BIG difference between being demanding and expecting hard work and being malignant. Everyone, regardless of where or in what field they train, should expect to work hard, however, teaching by humiliation and generally being unpleasant is a lot more than demanding and falls under the category of malignant.
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I am a surgical intern (categorical) at USC. I hail from college and med school on the east coast. From what I have seen the students and residents from the west coast are very weak in terms of what they believe to be "mailgnant." I have not seen one attending, and I have worked with the "meanest" SOB's in my program, and not one of them would even come close to being the meanest attending anywhere on the east coast. I have spent at least 95% of my weeks under 80 hours, without any problem. USC has a reputation as being malignant but truly it is not. There are maybe two or three out of 25-30 attendings who are difficult to work with but that is minor compared to other programs. I truly feel as if medical students are getting soft these days. Please if you have any other questions about the program, post them and I will get back to you quickly.
Nathan Aranson
PGY-1
[email protected]
Nathan Aranson
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[email protected]
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I forgot to mention that I have not once been humiliated, berated, spoken to in a demeaning tone. Whoever is posting these threads needs to get a clue. I truly feel that if you are getting constantly berated it is not their personality problem but your performance problem.
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I am glad your experience so far has been good. I would be interested to see if this continues for the duration of your residency. Perhaps you can check back in occasionally and let us know how you are doing. I am just curious if the issues I saw were limited to upper level residents and fellows, perhaps because they more responsible for the operative management of the patient.
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I graduated from USC a few years ago and am currently a plastics resident in the northeast. I can safely say that none of my classmates who were going into general surgery at the time wanted to stay at USC. There was and still is a reason for this. I did two sub-i's my fourth year and was appalled at how residents were mistreated and overworked. The didactic training seemed shaky at best and the overall atmosphere was abysmal. I do think the plastics program is pretty good, but for gen surg I would definitely go elsewhere. Just my 2 cents...
