Usefulness of undergrad anatomy

[Gleevec]

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Ive read some of the other threads (Ive found 2) regarding this topic, and was wondering if anyone had any further advice.

I am going to be starting med school next year and have some options with my last semester of classes. The way my curriculum is set out, I will end up taking Human Anatomy or Biostatistics. Both have labs (we observe a TA dissect the cadaver in the former, and we spend a good amount of time in computer lab for the latter).

I was wondering how useful yall thought it would be to take a human anatomy class? Im not very good at all at rote memorization and was hoping that this class would bring me some familiarity with the terms for this coming fall?

Is this resonable, or have people had bad/useless experiences in their undergrad human anatomy course relative to other undergrad classes/med school anatomy.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!

Gleevec

 

[DW]

take the easier class. anatomy can wait till med school

 

[citygirl]

I took human anatomy several years ago and had comparative vertebrate anatomy in my last semester of undergrad. I found having had anatomy previously to be very helpful. I also found it to be easier than biostatitics, but that's just me. Good luck.

 

[citygirl]

See? I can't even spell B-I-O-S-T-A-T-I-S-T-I-C-S.

 

[OB1🤙]

I had anatomy as an undergrad (with prosections), and it has been a great help so far. It's nice to only "refresh" the material when everyone else is learning it for the first time, esp. for practicals.

Just my $.02.

 

[SunnyS81]

I am not good at memorization either, but I don't think anatomy is that bad. On a more important note, you WILL take anatomy in Med School, however, it is unlikely that you will ever get a good biostat class, which I think is pretty important, especially if you are at all considering research (ever). Make the most of your education, take biostat. If you are more concerned with excelling in med school, take anatomy. I never took an anatomy class, but I'd look into how much you learn in the anatomy class. If its a lot, it's good from an academic perspective, but bad in terms of your last undergrad semester 🙂

 

[thackl]

I'm taking it right now and there were about 750 new terms to learn for the last exam and we had about 2.5wks to learn it all. That was foolowed up 5 days later by a practicle. Being an engineer, I have never taken anything like this before (which is why I'm doing it). The class is tough, but I could certainly give it much more than I'm giving it right now. I have the lowest of three A's in the class right now😱

Also consider that undergrad is taught by systems (bones, muscles, CNS, PNS, ANS, blood..... etc) all taught separately. In med school you are taught by body regions (head, neck, arm, pelvis...etc). I'll tell ya in 10 months if it is worth it or not 😀

 

[Stinger86]

I took a comparative vertebrate anatomy course in undergrad, and that made medical Gross Anatomy much easier to learn. By getting early exposure to nomenclature and procedures, you'll make it that much easier to breeze through gross in med school.

Yet, I've never taken a biostatistics course, and that sounds like a pretty boring time, so I can't offer up any advice.

I guess if you're worried about all the memorization in gross, then take the warm-up for it. If you're not worried about it, do the biostats.

 

[UCSBMed1]

Well I didn't take a lab-based Anatomy class as an undergrad, but my roommate did. Trust me, its worth it. He hardy even studies the Anatomy, as he has already taken the class!

I study every friggin' day pretty much, and its very time consuming. I'm making it (83% baby!) but I wish I wouldn't have had all of this stuff be new for me.

If you want, I'd take it over the summer or something. Enjoy your last quarter/semester of college for goodness sakes! It sure as heck won't be like that in med school!

 

[Street Philosopher]

if you want the most of your education you should take art/english/philosophy/music classes. this the last chance in your life to do something other than medicine/science. you can learn biostats/anatomy later when you need to. will you have an opportunity to explore humanities?

life is not all about preparation. if you've been accepted to medical school, you've prepared enough. now's your chance to do something that can enrich your life.

 

[GoodMonkey]

Originally posted by thackl
Also consider that undergrad is taught by systems (bones, muscles, CNS, PNS, ANS, blood..... etc) all taught separately. In med school you are taught by body regions (head, neck, arm, pelvis...etc). I'll tell ya in 10 months if it is worth it or not 😀

no, not at our school. it's taught in systems.

 

[mattorama]

While I could very well be wrong (just a lowly senior undergrad), it seems like having a strong background in anatomy before med school will give you a better chance of actually having it "stick" when you take it again.

I took a gross anatomy class this past summer where we had 2 cadavers for 9 people. The TAs did the dissections, but other then that my prof said we cover about 80% of the material that med students do (he teaches gross anatomy/neuroanatomy at the medical school). We didn't hit the clinical correlations as heavily as med students do and he left out radiology. Seeing that 7/9 of the students were engineering grad students, they probably didn't care about that stuff anyway. We had 4 hour exams so the class was not a typical undergrad class.

I don't see how anyone could hope to retain any details at all if they are taking a class like that along with other 1st year classes, and have never seen any of it before. I had a 98% in my class, was only taking a philosophy class along wtih it, and a lot of the material has already slipped my mind. My prof said that a lot of his med students tell him later on that they wish they could take the class again just so it would actually stick (people who honored the class..).

Once again, I am just an undergrad, but it seems like taking a solid anatomy class as an undergrad could make your first year less stressful and allow you to actually retain your anatomy.

Gross anatomy was fun and easy to learn (yes, a HUGE volume, but still...structures are easy to differentiate from each other). It was neuroanatomy that was a pain in the rear. All those @#$@ stained cross-sections identifying nuclei and tracts that all look the same, then trying to superimpose blood supply over it.....grrrr

 

[Bevo]

It would have been nice to have some background in anatomy. Those with, at least here, are spending less time in the lab than those of us who have never taken it.

But from my experience thus far, in our 1st lab practical, those who did take anatomy previously didn't earn the highest marks in the practical or seperate themselves grade wise.

From talking with my friends, I think only 1 of the top 5-6 scores in our 1st practical had taken anatomy previously.

I guess the point is.

If you want to take it, I think it'll help when you take anatomy in med school. But don't feel pressured to take it because no matter how well you learn it now, you will still have to spend time on it in medical school.

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by DW
take the easier class. anatomy can wait till med school

Gleevec, I wouldn't worry about anatomy so much, you guys seriously learn WAY LESS than our school does so I'm not sure how much that is, but I do know you only spend like 2 hrs once or twice a week in lab. after the flood here baylor and houston students would share a body, thats how I know you guys are responsible for learning less. however I will say some baylor 2nd years were really pissy the other day at starbucks because they were all of a sudden responsible for a bunch of anatomy they never covered first year (this is probably the only reason it would be good to do it now so you've seen it before it is thrown into a block 2nd year)

you also have to remember that the body you will have is practically completely dissected for you, so learning how to dissect is a waste of your time.

of all the memorization I've had to do, anatomy is the easiet for me since I can go in and see it and figure out how it all connects together. its not just page after page of words that start swimming together because I'm bored. if you want a jump start on memorization, do histology or something like that, that material is BORING. 😛

 

[SistaKaren]

Originally posted by seaworthc
you also have to remember that the body you will have is practically completely dissected for you, so learning how to dissect is a waste of your time.

And that's if you have a body at all. At UNC, we only had a computer program. Admittedly, I took anatomy the first semester my freshman year (because I'm dumb), but I don't find having the background to be incredibly helpful. Mostly because you have to learn it in greater detail for the theoretical part of your anatomy class. And at Columbia they focus a lot more on clinical relevance than my class at UNC did.

It'll be fresher in your mind for med school, which is true. But I have to agree with SP: it's your last semester! Take some humanities classes. You'll miss them when you're doing all med school all the time. Or at least I do...

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by SistaKaren
And that's if you have a body at all. At UNC, we only had a computer program.

gleevec is going to Baylor med school, they show up and the bodies are pretty much dissected completely for them. that is what I was referring to. 😛

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by seaworthc
gleevec is going to Baylor med school, they show up and the bodies are pretty much dissected completely for them. that is what I was referring to. 😛

DOH, they didnt tell us that on our interview day. 🙁 I know it might be a pain to do dissection, but I'd imagine I'd learn more.

I mean, do people doing clinical now feel that the lab portion anatomy was useful, or moreso the texts themselves?

Ah well, I guess its not too big a deal either way.

I guess I will probably end up taking anatomy, biostatistics can wait as an elective in med school.

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[care bear]

yes, TAKE ANATOMY. . .you may find it not helpful, you may find it very helpful. . .but it would be the worst feeling to be sitting there next year doing poorly and thinking 'what if? . . .' and 'if only. . . ' you might as well give yourself every possible chance to do well in med school. . the hardest part is *not* getting in!! 😉

 

[GoodMonkey]

i vote w/sp.
being in med school as a science major in undergrad and with some additional science grad school background, i look back and NEVER think "man i'm glad i took anatomy" (which i did, as a freshman in college, btw, and which i actually remember a good deal of) but i do look back and think "man, i wish i took more music classes."

bottom line is you'll be studying your tail off regardless of whether or not you've taken anatomy. i *still* have to study pretty in-depth to get the clinical correlates and all the specifics, and i am far from the top of the class in this section.

the only class i'm glad i took as "preparation," per se, is biochem. and that was a requirement for 1) my major and 2) to get into umich med.

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by Gleevec
DOH, they didnt tell us that on our interview day. 🙁 I know it might be a pain to do dissection, but I'd imagine I'd learn more.

I mean, do people doing clinical now feel that the lab portion anatomy was useful, or moreso the texts themselves?

Ah well, I guess its not too big a deal either way.

I guess I will probably end up taking anatomy, biostatistics can wait as an elective in med school.

Thanks for the info guys!

really? they kept going on and on about that when I interviewed there last year because it DOES save you time in some senses. yes dissecting through and looking for nerves makes you go over and over in your brain the attachments, landmarks, relationships, etc but the enthusiasm dies out for it over the semester and it can be a drag at times. I think this is the real reason people hate anatomy so much, its hard not to get a bad attitude when it sucks so much time out of your schedule.

and you need the lab time because things look different in different people and actually finding something in a body can't replace just reading about it. I'm not sure how it relates to clinicals, but I imagine in your surgery rotation it might be kind of important. 😛

 

[carrigallen]

Originally posted by seaworthc


you also have to remember that the body you will have is practically completely dissected for you, so learning how to dissect is a waste of your time.

Damm, where do you go to school? We have no prelab, no prosection, no nothing. We just walk into lab and start knifing through undissected bodies, with 2 random instructors spread out for about 150 students and their 60 cadavers.

 

[Bevo]

we get a quick prosection, but then we're on our own to do the dissections with our prosector walking around to help each table (~25 total tables).

Wish our bodies were predissected too 🙁

 

[confusedgirl]

Originally posted by GoodMonkey
i vote w/sp.
being in med school as a science major in undergrad and with some additional science grad school background, i look back and NEVER think "man i'm glad i took anatomy" (which i did, as a freshman in college, btw, and which i actually remember a good deal of) but i do look back and think "man, i wish i took more music classes."

bottom line is you'll be studying your tail off regardless of whether or not you've taken anatomy. i *still* have to study pretty in-depth to get the clinical correlates and all the specifics, and i am far from the top of the class in this section.

the only class i'm glad i took as "preparation," per se, is biochem. and that was a requirement for 1) my major and 2) to get into umich med.

ok, but maybe having taken it in undergrad, you don't realize how much harder it could have been had you not taken it? i mean, is it possible that the reason you don't say 'man, i'm glad i took anatomy'. . b/c there's nothing to compare it to? just playing devil's advocate here. . . i agree that undergrad is the last time you're gonna get to take cool classes. but, i do think while taking anatomy is by no means a way to an easy A in med school, it could mean the difference btw studying your butt off and passing, or studying your butt off and not passing/ almost not passing. . .

 

[Street Philosopher]

Originally posted by confusedgirl
ok, but maybe having taken it in undergrad, you don't realize how much harder it could have been had you not taken it? i mean, is it possible that the reason you don't say 'man, i'm glad i took anatomy'. . b/c there's nothing to compare it to? just playing devil's advocate here. . . i agree that undergrad is the last time you're gonna get to take cool classes. but, i do think while taking anatomy is by no means a way to an easy A in med school, it could mean the difference btw studying your butt off and passing, or studying your butt off and not passing/ almost not passing. . .

I never took anatomy in my life and although I do have to study a little more, I don't think other people are at a huge advantage over me. And I WILL pass. Gotta keep positive here. 🙂

Like she said, you still have to study your ass off regardless. I took biochem and I still had to review. I probably saved like one hour because I took it before than had I never done so. It's just not worth it, in my opinion.

 

[::Seabass::]

Originally posted by carrigallen
Damm, where do you go to school? We have no prelab, no prosection, no nothing. We just walk into lab and start knifing through undissected bodies, with 2 random instructors spread out for about 150 students and their 60 cadavers.

wow, that really blows. we have about 10 professors for the whole class, one 2nd year/every 7 tables, and 1 prossection by MS1s/every 7 tables plus one professional profession with a revolving lecture you can go listen to.

I was referring to baylor with the pre-dissected cadavers. I personally go to UT Houston across the street.

 

[Gleevec]

What textbooks do yall use? The class I would take uses:

M. Cartmill, W. Hylander, & J. Shafland?s ?Human Structure?,
Harvard Univ. Press, Cambridge, 1987.

A. Agur and M. Lee?s ?Grant?s Atlas of Anatomy?, 10th edition,
Lippincott-Williams-Wilkins, 2002.

F.H. Netter?s ?Atlas of Human Anatomy?, Ciba-Geigy Corporation,
1989.

What have you thought of these texts, and will they be useful later on?

 

[jwin]

to be a gunner or not to be a gunner, that is the question. only you can answer that. you go to duke i think, so you are obviously smart, unless you are on the basketball team or something. so you will pass anatomy. taking anatomy now will be quite helpful in my opinion, but exploring non-science areas or enjoying your last semester seem better choices to me.

but if you must gun, then gun.

netter's and grant's are just illustrations with no text. they are invaluable and you will use them later on. we don't have a written text (only class notes) so i can't comment on anything else.

you will probably want to get rohen (color atlas of anatomy) for med school. it has photographs of dissected cadavers.

 

[care bear]

there are people who went to better schools than duke who are not passing anatomy 🙁 like stupid stupid me. . .

 

[Street Philosopher]

Originally posted by Gleevec
What textbooks do yall use? The class I would take uses:

M. Cartmill, W. Hylander, & J. Shafland?s ?Human Structure?,
Harvard Univ. Press, Cambridge, 1987.

A. Agur and M. Lee?s ?Grant?s Atlas of Anatomy?, 10th edition,
Lippincott-Williams-Wilkins, 2002.

F.H. Netter?s ?Atlas of Human Anatomy?, Ciba-Geigy Corporation,
1989.

What have you thought of these texts, and will they be useful later on?

Netter's is used in most schools. It's required at Michigan. I also use Rohen's because they're real pictures, not drawings, and it's good for testing myself. Some people use Moore's Clinical Anatomy as an anatomy textbook. (Rohen and Netter's are just atlases)

 

[Adcadet]

I took anatomy (lecture and a prosection-based lab) the semester before I began med school. I didn't pay too much attention and it didn't help me that much. It saved me on average 5 minutes per day. You learn so much more in med school it's amazing. From talking with a classmate who did the same thing but actually studied the material before starting med school, it also didn't help much.

I'd take the biostats. I doubt you'll get much in med school and it's very useful. We just finished a section on "Mastering Clnical Information" and it seems many of my classmates are struggling with the material. Having done an epi MPH really makes this section easy 🙂
You'll do it as an elective you say? Unless your school builds in time specifically for taking electives, requires them, or you choose to do a second degree, I doubt it.

 

[Adcadet]

Originally posted by Gleevec
What textbooks do yall use? The class I would take uses:

M. Cartmill, W. Hylander, & J. Shafland?s ?Human Structure?,
Harvard Univ. Press, Cambridge, 1987.

A. Agur and M. Lee?s ?Grant?s Atlas of Anatomy?, 10th edition,
Lippincott-Williams-Wilkins, 2002.

F.H. Netter?s ?Atlas of Human Anatomy?, Ciba-Geigy Corporation,
1989.

What have you thought of these texts, and will they be useful later on?

There's a newer Netters out which I used in lecture (we used the 2nd ed. in lab). The 3rd ed. it a little better than 2nd - no reason to get 2nd if you can get 3rd. The biggest difference is the inclusion of surface anatomy and radiographs.

 

[Mirror Form]

Anatomy is extremely important and b/c of the lightning speed it's taught at most medical schools, most med students forget 95% of what they learned. I strongly recommend taking anatomy your second semester senior year b/c it's will be very helpful for you during your medical school anatomy class and later on as well. Also, your grades won't count so you don't have to get too stressed and can still enjoy senior year (treasure it!!!!!).

I took half an anatomy class sophomore year of college, and even that helped me greatly. The memories of the parts I learned came back and I retained that information much better then the parts I hadn't learned in undergrad. However, I missed an A by less then 1% in medschool anatomy. I could have taken more anatomy my second semester senior year but I didn't; it probably would have easily got me passed just an A and into honors. On the other hand, my second semester senior year was the best 5 months of my life.

About the biostatistics class, that could be very useful too. But make sure you don't take it unless you're the type that will like stats (I loved stats), otherwise you probably won't like it and won't get much out of it.

 

[Bevo]

I'll make a plug for my prosector's work.

She used to teach at Cornell, but they removed her because she didn't have a professional degree.

Her dissections are in the new McMinns Atlas.

Ive been using Netters and at times Clemente's anatomy books with baby moore for the blue boxes.

I like Clemente for the reason that it will tell you some relevant stuff with the drawings. But Netter's drawings are that much clearer.

 

[SistaKaren]

I wouldn't get both Grant's Atlas and Netter's. Generally speaking anyway. There are some pictures in Grant's are more helpful (like around the pelvic region) than Netter's, but unless you can get it cheap, I don't feel like it's worth shelling out the extra moola for it.

And like other's have said, get the 3rd edition of Netter's.

BTW, do you have to take an extra class? If I were you, I'd ditch it and watch ACC basketball while you still have the chance! I'm already going through withdrawal and the season hasn't even started in earnest! But I know you're going to take it, so it's all good. I'm just sayin'... 🙂

 

[Street Philosopher]

I actually use a first edition Netter's. I flipped through all the pages and 99% of the book is EXACTLY the same as the 3rd edition, with the only difference being a few radiology plates thrown in every so often. My advice is to get a used Netter's for cheap if you can. (I got mine from my sister 🙂)

 

[alex8712]

Gleevec,

Human Structure is written by the course instructors, and I don't know of any other medical school that uses it. I actually rather like its evolutionary slant on gross anatomy, but many dislike the high words/images ratio and the fact that it is in black and white. Grant's and Netter's are both standard atlases used pretty much everywhere. I use Netter's because I was able to get one for free, but I don't really think it makes a difference which one you use.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by alex8712
Gleevec,

I'm an MS1 at Duke (I believe where you'd be taking this class) and by sheer coincidence, one of the TA's was talking about the undergrad anatomy course today during anatomy lab. Apparently, the undergrad course actually goes more in depth than the med school course, as prosection (sp?) rather than dissection takes a lot less time. As to exactly how it goes into more depth, I am uncertain.

Human Structure is written by the course instructors, and I don't know of any other medical school that uses it. I actually rather like its evolutionary slant on gross anatomy, but many dislike the high words/images ratio and the fact that it is in black and white. Grant's and Netter's are both standard atlases used pretty much everywhere. I use Netter's because I was able to get one for free, but I don't really think it makes a difference which one you use.

Well, back to cramming phys. Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot for all the info everyone! I really appreciate it.

 

[tej77]

Our cadavers are not "predissected" for us at Baylor. There always seems to be a lot of rumors surrounding this. Although our cadavers are skinned for us, we still have to come to lab and dissect. Basically, a lot of the grunt work is done ahead of time, so that we can go into lab and do the important parts of each dissection. (i.e. bones cut, or skin removed). We still dissect at Baylor!!!!

 

[Street Philosopher]

that's a great idea. skinning and removing fat is the most disgusting and time consuming part of the entire lab. sounds like a great compromise between actually doing the dissection and not having to do the time wasting parts.