Using AP Credit vs. Building a Solid GPA

[dechristine]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi guys! I will be an incoming freshman in the fall and I'm looking for advice over whether or not to use my AP credit. I plan to major in physics, and unfortunately all of my physics classes combined with the prereqs for medical school leaves no room for taking elective classes. Taking the AP credit means that I would be able to take upper level classes in biology and other classes that I'm interested in, but it also means a potential GPA hit and re-learning on my part (I took AP Bio in sophomore year of high school, AP Chem junior year, and AP Physics senior year).

I have taken: Biology (5), Chemistry (4), Physics C -- Mechanics (5), Physics C -- E&M (5), Calculus AB (5), and a bunch of histories.

My schedule for freshman year as it stands (without AP credit):
First Semester
1. Physics 1
2. Biology 1
3. Calculus 1
4. College Writing

Second Semester
1. Physics 2
2. Chemistry 1
3. Calculus 2

With my schedule as it is, I will basically be re-doing classes I have taken in high school (I realize that college classes will probably be harder) for my first year of college, and I will probably do well. However, I'm also bummed about not being able to take interesting courses because I just don't have the time.

 

[Porfirio]

Hi guys! I will be an incoming freshman in the fall and I'm looking for advice over whether or not to use my AP credit. I plan to major in physics, and unfortunately all of my physics classes combined with the prereqs for medical school leaves no room for taking elective classes. Taking the AP credit means that I would be able to take upper level classes in biology and other classes that I'm interested in, but it also means a potential GPA hit and re-learning on my part (I took AP Bio in sophomore year of high school, AP Chem junior year, and AP Physics senior year).

I have taken: Biology (5), Chemistry (4), Physics C -- Mechanics (5), Physics C -- E&M (5), Calculus AB (5), and a bunch of histories.

My schedule for freshman year as it stands (without AP credit):
First Semester
1. Physics 1
2. Biology 1
3. Calculus 1
4. College Writing

Second Semester
1. Physics 2
2. Chemistry 1
3. Calculus 2

With my schedule as it is, I will basically be re-doing classes I have taken in high school (I realize that college classes will probably be harder) for my first year of college, and I will probably do well. However, I'm also bummed about not being able to take interesting courses because I just don't have the time.

I used my AP credits (same as you, but I also had English). I am glad I used them and finished a year early. It was one less year of useless undergrad to pay for, gave me more real life options (explore the world/job/volutneer/publish papers/mature more), and was something to talk about during my interviews.

I would use the hours. Ochem will trump Gen Chem. Take an extra upper-level Physics class if you want to show you mastered Physics. If you are a Biology major (or related major), you will take plenty of upper-level Biology courses.

Your GPA will be fine, and do not worry about re-learning. You will see the material plenty of times during your upper-level classes. You did well on the exams - college is not that much harder.

Edit:

If you wanted, you could graduate early move to a more resident friendly state (like Texas) to better your chances for medical school.

 

[oohhii]

.

 

[plumazul]

Hi guys! I will be an incoming freshman in the fall and I'm looking for advice over whether or not to use my AP credit. I plan to major in physics, and unfortunately all of my physics classes combined with the prereqs for medical school leaves no room for taking elective classes. Taking the AP credit means that I would be able to take upper level classes in biology and other classes that I'm interested in, but it also means a potential GPA hit and re-learning on my part (I took AP Bio in sophomore year of high school, AP Chem junior year, and AP Physics senior year).

I have taken: Biology (5), Chemistry (4), Physics C -- Mechanics (5), Physics C -- E&M (5), Calculus AB (5), and a bunch of histories.

My schedule for freshman year as it stands (without AP credit):
First Semester
1. Physics 1
2. Biology 1
3. Calculus 1
4. College Writing

Second Semester
1. Physics 2
2. Chemistry 1
3. Calculus 2

With my schedule as it is, I will basically be re-doing classes I have taken in high school (I realize that college classes will probably be harder) for my first year of college, and I will probably do well. However, I'm also bummed about not being able to take interesting courses because I just don't have the time.

I assume your UG is offering credit? Some UGs set limits on how many AP credits you can use. I would certainly use any credit where you scored a 5 on the exam. I suggest retaking any class where you did NOT get a 5. (the scoring is way to lenient, a 4 or lower means you missed a lot)

I started UG with 10 AP exams (55 credit hours) and retook nothing. No GPA hit, and it has allowed me to start taking graduate courses in my major this fall (my 5th semester).

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Hi guys! I will be an incoming freshman in the fall and I'm looking for advice over whether or not to use my AP credit. I plan to major in physics, and unfortunately all of my physics classes combined with the prereqs for medical school leaves no room for taking elective classes. Taking the AP credit means that I would be able to take upper level classes in biology and other classes that I'm interested in, but it also means a potential GPA hit and re-learning on my part (I took AP Bio in sophomore year of high school, AP Chem junior year, and AP Physics senior year).

I have taken: Biology (5), Chemistry (4), Physics C -- Mechanics (5), Physics C -- E&M (5), Calculus AB (5), and a bunch of histories.

My schedule for freshman year as it stands (without AP credit):
First Semester
1. Physics 1
2. Biology 1
3. Calculus 1
4. College Writing

Second Semester
1. Physics 2
2. Chemistry 1
3. Calculus 2

With my schedule as it is, I will basically be re-doing classes I have taken in high school (I realize that college classes will probably be harder) for my first year of college, and I will probably do well. However, I'm also bummed about not being able to take interesting courses because I just don't have the time.

With a 4 on the chem test, don't use your AP credits. It is worth it to take the college course for the MCAT. I'd use your Calc AP credit, though. Calculus is calculus. Also, I find it hard to believe that with a single major, even as a premed, you won't have time for ANY electives.

 

[ComradeDoktor]

Since most medical schools don't accept AP credit (which means you'll have to take the classes anyway) I would say to not use it.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Don't use the AP credits, medical schools don't want you to for whatever demented reason they postulated. It's a shame too, because it gives the chance to learn some real science that actually has some applications.

 

[dechristine]

A little more information: My college gives credit for 4s and 5s, and as far as I know there isn't a cap. I have a great scholarship so I'm not worried about money. I'm trying to graduate in four years (many people in my college graduate in five), which is why I have little wiggle room in my schedule.

I guess I will be retaking chemistry... I thought that test was difficult and promptly forgot everything about it.

 

[Quaero]

A little more information: My college gives credit for 4s and 5s, and as far as I know there isn't a cap. I have a great scholarship so I'm not worried about money. I'm trying to graduate in four years (many people in my college graduate in five), which is why I have little wiggle room in my schedule.

I guess I will be retaking chemistry... I thought that test was difficult and promptly forgot everything about it.

Do you plan to apply to schools in California? Most of them don't take AP credits at all.

 

[NickNaylor]

I will admit that I have a bias, but I'm strongly against the AP program. I would encourage you to retake the courses because 1) you'll have all your bases covered in the event you decide to apply to schools that have weird pre-req requirements and 2) they should be relatively easy for you since you've already seen the material. Unless you want to study a million things and/or graduate early, AP credit gives you no advantage. Yet every year around April or May threads pop on SDN bemoaning that "I didn't know I needed to take _____ class because my school doesn't accept AP credit!!!"

Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[plumazul]

Since most medical schools don't accept AP credit (which means you'll have to take the classes anyway) I would say to not use it.

Don't use the AP credits, medical schools don't want you to for whatever demented reason they postulated. It's a shame too, because it gives the chance to learn some real science that actually has some applications.

😕Where do you get this idea??

The fact is that vitrually all medical schools accept AP credit.

Why do these myths persist?

 

[plumazul]

I will admit that I have a bias, but I'm strongly against the AP program. I would encourage you to retake the courses because 1) you'll have all your bases covered in the event you decide to apply to schools that have weird pre-req requirements and 2) they should be relatively easy for you since you've already seen the material. Unless you want to study a million things and/or graduate early, AP credit gives you no advantage. Yet every year around April or May threads pop on SDN bemoaning that "I didn't know I needed to take _____ class because my school doesn't accept AP credit!!!"

Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Yes you are biased (extremely). I wish that someday you would explain why.

1) "bases covered"? Schools publish this information. It's something anyone can plan around. Anyone with a significant amount of AP credit is unlikely to be too lazy to do proper research.

2) every adcom/admin at every school I'm interested in has told me that they do not want to see students retaking classes for which they already have credit. They want you to take the credit and "move on".

I don't know your reasons for attending college, buy I'm here to learn as much as I can. That is the advantage AP credit gives me and anyone else who's goal is to receive an education.

 

[NickNaylor]

Yes you are biased (extremely). I wish that someday you would explain why.

1) "bases covered"? Schools publish this information. It's something anyone can plan around. Anyone with a significant amount of AP credit is unlikely to be too lazy to do proper research.

2) every adcom/admin at every school I'm interested in has told me that they do not want to see students retaking classes for which they already have credit. They want you to take the credit and "move on".

I don't know your reasons for attending college, buy I'm here to learn as much as I can. That is the advantage AP credit gives me and anyone else who's goal is to receive an education.

Because if you think getting a 5 on an AP exam means that you've essentially taken the course at a university, you're sorely mistaken. AP courses and exams (especially the latter) are a joke.

1) I didn't know as a freshman what medical schools I would be applying to. Maybe you did.

2) I retook every single pre-req that I had credit for (~20 hours). I got into medical school with a full tuition scholarship. No one even mentioned the fact that I retook courses. "Every adcom you've ever spoken to" could be one person for all we know. On the other hand, I went through this process and actually have experience with the situation.

 

[angldrps]

Since most medical schools don't accept AP credit (which means you'll have to take the classes anyway) I would say to not use it.

This would be my advice to you OP. Majority of the schools don't accept AP credit.

 

[plumazul]

Because if you think getting a 5 on an AP exam means that you've essentially taken the course at a university, you're sorely mistaken. AP courses and exams (especially the latter) are a joke.

Well you certainly are consistent. As I suggested to you the last time you made this identical statement, calling something a "joke" is not making an argument.

1) I didn't know as a freshman what medical schools I would be applying to. Maybe you did.

Let me explain it to you. Since there are so very few MSs that don't accept AP credit, I do NOT need to know where I want to go, just where I do not want to go. A much simpler problem.

2) I retook every single pre-req that I had credit for (~20 hours). I got into medical school with a full tuition scholarship. No one even mentioned the fact that I retook courses.

As I suggested before, our reasons for attending college are probably very different.

"Every adcom you've ever spoken to" could be one person for all we know.

Ahh, here it comes, the personal attacks. The hallmark of a weak argument
The number is 22. Now I put it to you, can you present a counterexample? Pick a school, we can then call and ask?

On the other hand, I went through this process and actually have experience with the situation.

Ahhh, the logical fallacies are flowing now. Why do you think your experiences carry any weight when you are so willing to dismiss the entire College Board and the army of consultants they use to put together their system? I've heard a few of those people have PhDs and have published in their areas of expertise.

I ask you again, can you present a valid argument for your bias against the AP system?

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm really not going to get pulled into this because, frankly, it doesn't matter. If you think AP is awesome, then by all means support it.

I'm giving my opinion and input based on my experience, discussions, and research. Pointing out the that I've been through the process isn't a personal attack against you. It's simply a fact that people should keep in mind when listening to advice on SDN. People are left with a choice: listen to your advice, which comes from someone that has apparently talked to "22" adcom members, or listen to my advice, which comes from someone that has actually applied, been accepted to, and currently attends medical school. There's no personal attack there.

As far as the CollegeBoard goes, they are a company - nothing more, nothing less. Their job is to maximize profits (yes, I know they're a non-profit - that doesn't change anything). Apart from the SAT, I imagine they get quite a nice chunk of change from AP exams. It's obviously in their best interest to play up the value of these exams because they're the ones selling them, and much of that includes hiring people to support their work. However, there's a reason that many schools (oh, for example, Harvard) award absolutely zero AP credit to incoming undergrad students that have taken AP exams regardless of subject or score. I highly doubt that that's because the AP program is a highly rigorous program that serves as a one-to-one substitute for college classes.

Again, people are free to do whatever they want. I really don't care one way or the other because they are ultimately the ones that will deal with the consequences of their actions, not me. I simply advised the OP not use that AP credit because there's literally no upside to AP credit apart from graduating earlier or being able to take a bunch of unnecessary classes.

 

[minerva3121]

2) every adcom/admin at every school I'm interested in has told me that they do not want to see students retaking classes for which they already have credit. They want you to take the credit and "move on".

I don't know your reasons for attending college, buy I'm here to learn as much as I can. That is the advantage AP credit gives me and anyone else who's goal is to receive an education.

I did the same thing as NickNaylor in accordance with the advice of my premed advisor. My university just removed the record of AP credits granted from my transcript. In that case, adcoms would have no idea whether you're retaking a class for which you've already received credit. I didn't necessarily feel like I was "retaking" these courses because there was a lot more material covered in greater depth at the university level. I guess it just really depends on the rigor of your AP classes in high school.

Let me explain it to you. Since there are so very few MSs that don't accept AP credit, I do NOT need to know where I want to go, just where I do not want to go. A much simpler problem.

I think the statement that "medical schools don't accept AP credit" needs clarification. What we mean by that is you can't fulfill pre-reqs with just AP credits alone; you still need to supplement the AP courses with upper-level courses. The fact that most med schools won't let you fulfill your requirements with AP credits alone might suggest there is some bias against the AP system.

 

[MicroSteph]

This may differ at other schools, but if you were planning on majoring in natural sciences, they wanted you to take your lower division classes at the university instead of having credit or transferring the credits from a community college. You might want to look into that. I claimed music theory, history, government, and English and had no problems.

But as stated above, you will also want to check med school admissions.

Also, I think you learn a lot more in the college courses and you learn how to study. It will be so advantageous for you to spend your freshman year relearning the material in these notorious "weed out" courses! You can spend that time gaining a sufficient study strategy.

 

[alerk323]

My school actually doesn't allow you to take Bio 101 if you scored a 5 on the AP. They skip you right into Bio 102 (even though bio 102 was also covered in the AP...weird logic). For chem, I was forced to take a super accelerate chem class (101 +102 in ten weeks). In my experience the only thing (although significant) that is harder about college versions of these classes is you go through the material 2 to 3 times faster.

 

[Filius Lucis]

I'm really not going to get pulled into this because, frankly, it doesn't matter. If you think AP is awesome, then by all means support it.

I'm giving my opinion and input based on my experience, discussions, and research. Pointing out the that I've been through the process isn't a personal attack against you. It's simply a fact that people should keep in mind when listening to advice on SDN. People are left with a choice: listen to your advice, which comes from someone that has apparently talked to "22" adcom members, or listen to my advice, which comes from someone that has actually applied, been accepted to, and currently attends medical school. There's no personal attack there.

As far as the CollegeBoard goes, they are a company - nothing more, nothing less. Their job is to maximize profits (yes, I know they're a non-profit - that doesn't change anything). Apart from the SAT, I imagine they get quite a nice chunk of change from AP exams. It's obviously in their best interest to play up the value of these exams because they're the ones selling them, and much of that includes hiring people to support their work. However, there's a reason that many schools (oh, for example, Harvard) award absolutely zero AP credit to incoming undergrad students that have taken AP exams regardless of subject or score. I highly doubt that that's because the AP program is a highly rigorous program that serves as a one-to-one substitute for college classes.

Again, people are free to do whatever they want. I really don't care one way or the other because they are ultimately the ones that will deal with the consequences of their actions, not me. I simply advised the OP not use that AP credit because there's literally no upside to AP credit apart from graduating earlier or being able to take a bunch of unnecessary classes.

👍 IMHO I don't view AP as equivalent to a college course.

 

[plumazul]

I'm really not going to get pulled into this because, frankly, it doesn't matter. If you think AP is awesome, then by all means support it.

I didn't mean to try to "pull" you in to anything. I seriously wanted to understand your objections. If you would have just said "it's a gut feeling, I can't explain it", I would have accepted that answer. Hey, I'm a Stephen Colbert fan 🙂

I'm giving my opinion and input based on my experience, discussions, and research. Pointing out the that I've been through the process isn't a personal attack

I was referring to your attack on my credibility concerning my discussions with admins.

against you. It's simply a fact that people should keep in mind when listening to advice on SDN. People are left with a choice: listen to your advice, which comes from someone that has apparently talked to "22" adcom members, or listen to my advice, which comes from someone that has actually applied, been accepted to, and currently attends medical school. There's no personal attack there.

As far as the CollegeBoard goes, they are a company - nothing more, nothing less. Their job is to maximize profits (yes, I know they're a non-profit - that doesn't change anything).what? Apart from the SAT, I imagine they get quite a nice chunk of change from AP exams. It's obviously in their best interest to play up the value of these exams because they're the ones selling them, and much of that includes hiring people to support their work. However, there's a reason that many schools (oh, for example, Harvard) award absolutely zero AP credit to incoming undergrad students that have taken AP exams regardless of subject or score. I highly doubt that that's because the AP program is a highly rigorous program that serves as a one-to-one substitute for college classes.

From the Harvard College website:

Regardless of your scores on tests in the subjects named above, all freshmen are required to take the Expository Writing Test and the Mathematics Placement Exam. AP scores may be used for placement purposes in other departments, however; a score of 5 on an AP exam may satisfy the prerequisite for middle- or upper-level departmental courses. Please consult with individual departments for more information.

It appears that Harvard College wants to do their own math and writing placement(a reasonable policy) but has no problem using AP exams for placement elsewhere.

From Harvard Medical website:

We will consider other course formats or combinations that are sponsored by the undergraduate institution attended and provide equivalent preparation. When advanced placement credits used to satisfy portions of the chemistry, physics, or mathematics requirements noted above, scores from the AP examination must be submitted prior to matriculation. If these scores are not shown on the college transcript, an AP score report will be required before matriculation....

Honors courses and independent study or research are encouraged, because they permit a student to explore an area of knowledge in depth and provide a scholarly experience that will facilitate a lifelong habit of self-education....

The premedical curriculum should foster scholastic rigor, analytical thinking, quantitative assessment, and analyses of complex systems in human biology. In fact, an inculcation of scientific method and scientific rigor are deemed more important than the specific content of premedical science courses per se. We adhere to the important principle that the college years are not, and should not be, designed primarily to prepare students for professional schools. Instead, the college years should be devoted to a creative engagement in the elements of a broad, intellectually expansive liberal arts education.

I could not agree more.

Again, people are free to do whatever they want. I really don't care one way or the other because they are ultimately the ones that will deal with the consequences of their actions, not me. I simply advised the OP not use that AP credit because there's literally no upside to AP credit apart from graduating earlier or being able to take a bunch of unnecessary classes.

Harvard seems to value those "unnecessary classes"

 

[plumazul]

The following link is a comprehensive and up to date list of US medical schools and their AP policies.

http://students.rice.edu/uploadedFi...Allopathic Medicine (Updated Summer 2011).pdf

 

[NickNaylor]

There is a distinction between using the AP exams as placement tools and using them as bona fide college credit. That Harvard (and many other schools) don't give credit for AP exams - which, per CB, are equivalent to college classes - tells me that those schools don't actually buy CB's claim that they're equivalent to their own courses. Why on earth would you accept credit for a course using an AP exam when many universities - in fact, the best universities - don't do the same? They have serious reservations about stating, "oh, you got a five on the AP exam, yes, that's identical to having taken our class and succeeded, here's your credit." That directly undercuts what CB says the purpose of AP is.

I minored in something entirely unrelated to my major. I did it in four years without taking any summer courses and without accepting much of my ~50 hours of AP credit. Trust me, I understand the value of "unnecessary classes," and AP is by no means necessary to enrich and broaden your education.

In my opinion, AP credit isn't worth 1) applying to one of those schools that don't accept AP credit and screwing yourself from matriculating there or 2) risking being woefully unprepared for advanced courses that depend on these pre-reqs due to the at best mediocre preparation AP provides. You are welcome to your own opinion, but until you apply and go through this process and use that experience to inform your opinions/advice, no, you don't have much credibility, and I would discourage people from using what you say to make big decisions about how they're going to form their curriculum. That's how it works.

 

[plumazul]

I did the same thing as NickNaylor in accordance with the advice of my premed advisor. My university just removed the record of AP credits granted from my transcript. In that case, adcoms would have no idea whether you're retaking a class for which you've already received credit. I didn't necessarily feel like I was "retaking" these courses because there was a lot more material covered in greater depth at the university level. I guess it just really depends on the rigor of your AP classes in high school.

I agree there is variation in the quality of AP courses across the country. This is the purpose of the standardized exams. In the end, it is the student's responsibility to assess their level of understanding of the material covered and act accordingly.

I think the statement that "medical schools don't accept AP credit" needs clarification. What we mean by that is you can't fulfill pre-reqs with just AP credits alone; you still need to supplement the AP courses with upper-level courses. The fact that most med schools won't let you fulfill your requirements with AP credits alone might suggest there is some bias against the AP system.

Some schools do only accept "placement" and require you to take advanced courses, most don't. I posted a link to a very well done list that explains who takes what.

 

[lazybumG]

I kept all of my AP credits (~26) but then again, most of my AP classes were not the pre-reqs (i.e. history, psychology). However, I did take AP Chem & AP Calc BC. I ended up taking the honors/advanced version of general chem in college, and simply moved on to linear algebra for my math class.

I'm curious how admissions would determine how well you did in the prereq's if you used AP credit. The AP scores do not translate into A,A-,etc.

But anyway, retaking to be on the safe side is not a bad idea.

 

[minerva3121]

Some schools do only accept "placement" and require you to take advanced courses, most don't. I posted a link to a very well done list that explains who takes what.

Wow, I wish my school provided us with a list like this 😱

 

[alerk323]

There is a distinction between using the AP exams as placement tools and using them as bona fide college credit. That Harvard (and many other schools) don't give credit for AP exams - which, per CB, are equivalent to college classes - tells me that those schools don't actually buy CB's claim that they're equivalent to their own courses. Why on earth would you accept credit for a course using an AP exam when many universities - in fact, the best universities - don't do the same? They have serious reservations about stating, "oh, you got a five on the AP exam, yes, that's identical to having taken our class and succeeded, here's your credit." That directly undercuts what CB says the purpose of AP is.

I minored in something entirely unrelated to my major. I did it in four years without taking any summer courses and without accepting much of my ~50 hours of AP credit. Trust me, I understand the value of "unnecessary classes," and AP is by no means necessary to enrich and broaden your education.

In my opinion, AP credit isn't worth 1) applying to one of those schools that don't accept AP credit and screwing yourself from matriculating there or 2) risking being woefully unprepared for advanced courses that depend on these pre-reqs due to the at best mediocre preparation AP provides. You are welcome to your own opinion, but until you apply and go through this process and use that experience to inform your opinions/advice, no, you don't have much credibility, and I would discourage people from using what you say to make big decisions about how they're going to form their curriculum. That's how it works.

To be fair, anyone who has gone through college using ap credits should be able to have credibility here in terms of your number 2). If you've taken orgo and other advanced chemistry and biology classes and all you took are the APs, wouldn't you be able to judge whether or not you were well prepared enough? Are there medical school classes that we will take later and say "ah damn even though i took orgo and biochem, i wish i didn't take that AP back in highschool and instead took it in college..."

Also, your argument about AP's being profit driven to an extent can be extended to schools. Why would schools want to give you credits you didn't pay for regardless of their legitimacy? A poster earlier said they graduated a full year earlier because of APs, why would Harvard or any school want to a lose a year of tuition from it's students when it can just make you stay.

 

[NickNaylor]

To be fair, anyone who has gone through college using ap credits should be able to have credibility here in terms of your number 2). If you've taken orgo and other advanced chemistry and biology classes and all you took are the APs, wouldn't you be able to judge whether or not you were well prepared enough? Are there medical school classes that we will take later and say "ah damn even though i took orgo and biochem, i wish i didn't take that AP back in highschool and instead took it in college..."

Also, your argument about AP's being profit driven to an extent can be extended to schools. Why would schools want to give you credits you didn't pay for regardless of their legitimacy? A poster earlier said they graduated a full year earlier because of APs, why would Harvard or any school want to a lose a year of tuition from it's students when it can just make you stay.

Unfortunately you probably don't know if you've been adequately prepared until you start taking the courses. Obviously if you finish the course with As you were prepared. What if you start taking an upper level class, though, and discover you're way in over your head? Hopefully you can drop the class and get into a lower level course, but what if you can't? Then you're screwed and the entire plan backfired.

As far as your second point, if that were true then AP exams wouldn't be accepted for credit at all at any institution. That's not the case here. I also find it hard to believe that Harvard or any other similar school, with its ridiculous endowment, is worried about people skipping out on courses in order to save tuition money.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I used AP credit so I could actually learn some real math and science in the 4 years of wasted time that med schools demand that I take