Using residency match as criteria to choose?

AnnieShiro

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    Is anyone taking the match list as a factor in deciding where to go? Looking down the matchlists at places I've interviewed at, Yale has the most successful matches. They have an insane number of people going into Dermatology and orthopedics for a class size of 100, and all at amazing hospitals (not to mention a few of the other super-competitive subspecialties like neurosurgery, optho, and otolaryntology). The match lists at some of the other schools are impressive but not quite as good. But then reputation of Yale med. isn't quite as good as say Duke or Penn med; so then which is more important, the rep. or the match success? isn't it the match success an indication of how well they educate their students?
     

    GuyLaroche

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      AnnieShiro said:
      Is anyone taking the match list as a factor in deciding where to go? Looking down the matchlists at places I've interviewed at, Yale has the most successful matches. They have an insane number of people going into Dermatology and orthopedics for a class size of 100, and all at amazing hospitals (not to mention a few of the other super-competitive subspecialties like neurosurgery, optho, and otolaryntology). The match lists at some of the other schools are impressive but not quite as good. But then reputation of Yale med. isn't quite as good as say Duke or Penn med; so then which is more important, the rep. or the match success? isn't it the match success an indication of how well they educate their students?

      This doesn't answer your question, but it is awesome that you and I were rejected from UChicago post-interview. Here I thought I was the only one.
       
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      doc05

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        the match list doesn't really tell you how good the "medical education" at a given school is. but it IS the most important thing to look at.

        as for yale, penn, and duke, differences between these match lists is of no significance. so long as you're at a top school, you'll get a good match.
         

        MeowMix

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          personally, I looked for excellent clinical rotation opportunities in 3rd/4th year instead of rank or match. Any decent school will have students matching into great programs in competitive specialties. Your clinical rotations give you the skills you need to be a good doctor.
           

          sscooterguy

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            I would definately look at match stats. Yes, these stats don't tell you how good the education is, but it does factor in other very important things for your career. For example, the surgery rotation may not be the most educational, and you may have lots of scut work comparatively, however, people may match better because of a big name surgeon that they have on board that writes all the LORs, which is a HUGE deal. I personally chose a school that was ranked in the 30's over a school that was ranked in the top 15 because of the match stats. The top 15 school sent over half of their graduating class into rural residencies, which I particularly am not interested. The school I went to sent most people to more urban and more competative residencies. Ranking does not take this into account as much as it should, in my opinion. Keep match stats in mind when making a decision along with everything else. Good luck.

            sscooterguy
             

            blump

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              GuyLaroche said:
              This doesn't answer your question, but it is awesome that you and I were rejected from UChicago post-interview. Here I thought I was the only one.

              I didnt think they rejected post-interview. Did something bad happen while you were there? Don't mean to bring it up if it is a sensitive subject
               

              cammy1313

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                Match list is pro'ly one of if not the most important factor when choosing a med school, I think. The first two years teach the exact same material. The basic sciences are the basic sciences no matter who's teaching it. It is the 3rd year that forms the foundation of your clinical education, not to mention where your LORs are coming from to place into a residency. If the hospital associated with your med school is the home to poorly regarded interns and residents, your LORs aren't going to mean as much as they would coming from a more reputable hospital. That said, you can't let school rank affect your decision too much either. Rank doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of clinical education. It only dictates the amount of research funds that school recieves (research rankings), and how many students enter into primary care (primary care rankings). I'd say research the teaching hospital first, then you can decide how much rank means to you in the long run.
                 

                abraxas20

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                  doc05 said:
                  the match list doesn't really tell you how good the "medical education" at a given school is. but it IS the most important thing to look at.

                  as for yale, penn, and duke, differences between these match lists is of no significance. so long as you're at a top school, you'll get a good match.

                  Well from a certain point of view that sucks!!!

                  So since I am not going to go to a top school, I have less of a chance even if I am a better student, simply because of the name of my school. Hmmm....that sounds suspicious.
                   

                  RaistlinMajere

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                    I would imagine that board scores play a big role as well as school reputation. So if you're coming from a school with less of a reputation, you can still get a great residency by doing well there and on the boards. I think that's correct, right?
                     

                    cammy1313

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                      RaistlinMajere said:
                      I would imagine that board scores play a big role as well as school reputation. So if you're coming from a school with less of a reputation, you can still get a great residency by doing well there and on the boards. I think that's correct, right?

                      Yes, board scores play a HUGE role in where you match. If you have a stellar exam result, doesn't matter if you're coming from Harvard or Podunk U, you will have every door open to you. But for me, placing my hopes on my board scores is too much of a risk. At this point the only thing we have control over is what school we choose to attend, and for me that means the school with the most reputable teaching hospital that I have available to me.
                       

                      sscooterguy

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                        The above advice about not relying on board score is really good. That's like saying, don't worry about your 2.5 gpa, just get a 40 on the MCAT. School reputation counts for a lot, even if it does not measure the quality of education. However, I would have to say that most top schools rightfully have great reputations because their education is top notch, so I don't think downplaying rep is appropriate. Again though, I would also see what the school and associated hospitals are known for. I mentioned before that rural medicine was not my thing, and that's why I chose a top 30's school over a top 15 school. In any case, take control of what you can now. You can't really control your board score at this moment, but you can decide on what school you'll go to. Good luck in your decisions.

                        sscooterguy
                         

                        GuyLaroche

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                          blump said:
                          I didnt think they rejected post-interview. Did something bad happen while you were there? Don't mean to bring it up if it is a sensitive subject

                          Who knows! I thought the interview went well. I was rejected a month later. Might have something to do with foreign-ness.
                           

                          missmod

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                            You shouldn't just look at the match list, but try to find stats as to how many people got their top choice.

                            Just because one school matches more derm or rads doesn't mean that it's better than the others. What if it just so happened that at the other schools, less people happened to be interested in the specialty? (with classes of only 100 or so, chance may play a factor) It might be more helpful to see that at a certain school, all 10 out of 10 students who applied to ortho matched into it... while at another school, 10 students matched in while 15 applied.

                            Also, dont neglect internal medicine matches. Matching into IM at some of the top schools can get quite competitive since those students usually want to subspecialize in cardiology, GI, allerty, etc.
                             

                            DrThom

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                              missmod said:
                              You shouldn't just look at the match list, but try to find stats as to how many people got their top choice.

                              Just because one school matches more derm or rads doesn't mean that it's better than the others. What if it just so happened that at the other schools, less people happened to be interested in the specialty? (with classes of only 100 or so, chance may play a factor) It might be more helpful to see that at a certain school, all 10 out of 10 students who applied to ortho matched into it... while at another school, 10 students matched in while 15 applied.

                              Also, dont neglect internal medicine matches. Matching into IM at some of the top schools can get quite competitive since those students usually want to subspecialize in cardiology, GI, allerty, etc.

                              This is tough because alot of the schools might not have this information.

                              When the match happens, ERAS doesn't give the medical school information about where the match was in each students rank. Alot of medical schools poll their students just to have the information but some don't.

                              Again, its best to call and ask.
                               

                              AnnieShiro

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                                missmod said:
                                You shouldn't just look at the match list, but try to find stats as to how many people got their top choice.

                                Just because one school matches more derm or rads doesn't mean that it's better than the others. What if it just so happened that at the other schools, less people happened to be interested in the specialty? (with classes of only 100 or so, chance may play a factor) It might be more helpful to see that at a certain school, all 10 out of 10 students who applied to ortho matched into it... while at another school, 10 students matched in while 15 applied.

                                Also, dont neglect internal medicine matches. Matching into IM at some of the top schools can get quite competitive since those students usually want to subspecialize in cardiology, GI, allerty, etc.

                                actually, your second statement about students getting their match-choice was addressed at both my penn and Hopkins interviews. at both places i got to talk to 4th years who were applying and they said the same thing: the statistics of "x % of our students received their first choice" is a bunch of crap. you decide to apply to whatever specialty and whatever program/hospital based on your USMLE and performances in med. schools- the advisors really narrow it down and pressure students to apply to specialities within their reach. also, you rank your choices based on the places that offer you an interview. if you do poorly at med. school you're not going to apply to a dermatology residency or a neurosurgery residency. so the fact that "10 out of 10" all matched in ortho is meaningless. of course they'll match unless they're completely delusional about their academic record. furthermore, because you need to do so well to place in the super-selective specialities it IS a fair rubric to use in comparing medical school. this is all repeated verbatim from students in the application process i met on my interviews. and the only reason why i used derm. as an example is because it's generally so sought after in comparison to the # of available positions (also because the med. students i talked to used it as an example)- so for a school to have 10% of its student body to place into derm (and at some of the best hospitals no less) is phenomenol.
                                 

                                Fantasy Sports

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                                  Looking at a match list to gauge competitiveness is good, but you also have to think about the class demographic.

                                  If your school just churns out orthos, derms, plastics, etc, who go to mediocre programs, then you're basically choosing a school that has a good match list in terms of specialty, but not in terms of where they went (and the dreadful class dynamic to boot... talk about gunner city).

                                  So there is definitely a delicate balance in that regard.
                                   
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