USMLE survey?

[edgar]

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To all you DO students,

I was just curious how many of you plan to sit for both the COMLEX and USMLE. I'm just beginning medical school this fall, and I was just curious who plans to take both tests. I hear that the USMLE is going to be on computer, so I guess it won't be as much of a strain to take both tests now (they won't be a day apart). With so many DOs having and taking the opportunity to pursue competitive allopathic residencies, I would only imagine that more DO students will take both tests.

Thanks,

EDGAR
Class of 2003
WesternU/COMP

 

[Henry]

I am planing to take the USMLE. So there won't be test on paper anymore in USMLE? I am not very interested in the computer version.

[This message has been edited by Henry (edited 03-15-99).]

 

[edgar]

Henry,

What kind of specialty are you interested in? I have very little clinical experience (other than shadowing) but I seem to be drawn to family practice.

EDGAR

 

[justwannabadoc]

Ditto for me. Why give directors of allopathic programs an excuse to reject you? This way, they can't give some lame excuse like "oh, we can't truly compare you to so-and-so because you only took the COMLEX." Probably don't need it unless you're going into surgery or something equally competetive.

 

[StillBorn]

as of this year the USMLE will only be offered on Computer; there will be no paper/pencil version.

write to residency programs to see what their attitudes are on the COMLEX--you'll be surprised how many programs don't care if you take the USMLE or not, but if you do, you'd better score better or as well as you did on COMLEX.

 

[cliff]

I plan on taking both dirty boards. If not for any other reason, to judge for myslef if there is a difference in what we will be taught and the MD students. I honestly do not know what type of doctor I will be, but do not want to have ANY of my options limited because of some stupid required score.

But, time will tell what I do then. Two years is going to be a long long time in med school.

By the way Edgar, I live in Santa Monica. Maybe all of us future DOs from Southern Cal should get together. Whatdo you think?

------------------

 

[edgar]

Cliff,

I'm currently living in Northern Cal and I plan to move to LA in July. Sure, if you are still in the LA area before we start medical school we should all hang. There are several people who frequent o.com who are COMPers: NickCVM, Premed1, JY, and Cliff Burton. By the way, where are some good places to boogieboard down there in LA? I bought one a few years ago and I figure the water should be much warmer than it is up here. Hope you hear the good news from COMP soon.

EDGAR

 

[2003]

I plan on taking both because, as cliff said, you can gauge yourself compared to MD students. If people don't know, many programs do not care if you only have the comlex (this includes places like Yale too, at least for some programs).

 

[matt s]

I agree with cliff and I too plan on taking both sets of boards come two years from now. I don't want to be limited by some short sighted residency director who feels that the comlex is not a sufficient test. I also want to be compared to the other applicants on the same field whether it be comlex or uslme scores. Also, while it is true that some or most programs will accept comlex scores, it almost is a must to take USMLE if you want to do an allopathic residency. Besides, other than the OMM stuff the tests cant be that different so you might as well take both.

 

[Henry]

Hi Edgar,

I am planning to be a pediatrician. My primary goal is to return to NY, where my family are and it is the place where I want to practice medicine. In NY, I can make use of my bilingual skill to serve the chinese community. There is not that many pediatrician in NY city that speak good chinese. However, the demand from all the the immgrants are huge.

Since I can speak both mandrian and cantonese fluently, I want to return. If I succeed, I will be the first DO pediatrician in Chinatown.

However, NY is not a strong DO state as in Florida, where I am studying now. So I figure that to be competitive, I need USMLE. I did ask for some opinion from the people who are in the residency program that I am targeting and they all mentioned taking the USMLE is important.

As for computer testing, I just hate it.

 

[prefontaine]

The exams are not as similar as one might think. COMLEX 1 (still a 2 day, paper & pencil exam)is more clinical, straight forward and regurgitation oriented. USMLE 1 has more two step thinking, longer vignettes and is a one day computer test. Unless you are aiming for ortho, uro, derm, etc, there really is no reason to sit for the USMLE (or you want to practice in LA). Not once was I asked about board scores at more than 15 residency interviews. The USMLE was a non-issue. Of the DOs that I know in ACGME programs (including Yale, Hopkins, Penn, UVA, Northwestern), none sat for the USMLE. Oh, and a poor performance on it could hurt you. For primary care, you do not need it, why bother?

However, if you must, then take the Compass/Arcventures prep course...

 

[Gregory Gulick]

As I understand it (and I could be very, very wrong) from my friends that have taken both is that the tests ARE different. The USMLE is much more basic-science oriented while the COMLEX is more clinically oriented. This is fairly consistent with the difference in the educational focus of the two routes: M.D.s focusing on basic science and research while D.O.s focusing on primary care and clinical experience. So on the USMLE you might be asked about a biochemical pathway just for the sake of testing that scientific fact, while on the COMLEX you might be asked about the same pathway in a clinically significant vignette. So the focus of your education could impact your ability to arrive at the right answer on the different tests. But we'll never know because M.D. students do not feel compelled to compare themselves to D.O. students. (I do wish that the opposite was also true)

This is what I've been told by my friends, so maybe some of the medical students that have taken both could comment on this?

Personally, I have no intentions of taking the USMLE -- although my opinion could change in two years. But I do not feel compelled to take another profession's board exam and I certainly don't feel the need to compare myself to M.D. students.

Gregory

[This message has been edited by Gregory Gulick (edited 03-17-99).]

 

[drusso]

The advice on the street is that if you're a candidate who is interested in primary care, then the COMLEX will do for any program you might apply to anywhere in the nation. If you think that you're heading more towards specialty medicine, then consider the USMLE. Even so, most DO students interested in specialty medicine only take step 1 (some take step 2 too) for the residency application process. The last stats I saw showed that only 98 DO students used the USMLE steps 1, 2, and 3 as their sole route to physician licensure.

And AZ, FL, OK, WV, CA, MI, PN, and VM will *only* recognize DO's licensed via the COMLEX. LA will only recognize DO's licensed via the USMLE.

[This message has been edited by drusso (edited 03-17-99).]

 

[StillBorn]

Here's a little food for thought for all of you who talked about "short-sighted" DMEs not accepting the COMLEX--do you really want to work in a program that from the beginning is questioning your level of education? Every DME I've written to or spoken with in ACGME programs has said to send board scores from whichever test I take.

 

[Doreen]

I heard that in order for a D.O. to be licensed in the state of Texas, he/she must take Both the USMLE and the COMLEX. I plan on taking just Step 1 of the USMLE and of course all 3 exams of the COMLEX.

 

[DO 2 be]

I haven't yet taken the board but as for now have no intention to sit for the USMLE. I talked to a few third and fourth year student at my school and none of them took the USMLE. One of them is going to Philadelphia for an Orthopedics residency. The COMLEX is accepted everywhere and most DME do not raise issues about the COMLEX (except in LA where I do not plan to practice). The USMLE is formatted a little bit differently and I think with more physiology than the COMLEX. You kinda have to study for both, from what I heard. For me, COMLEX will do.

 

[summerb]

I have a question. People have been saying that if you are going into a primary care residency then the COMLEX will not limit you. Now, as I understand it, a very common route to a specialty is going to a 3 year IM internship, and then applying for a fellowship in whatever specialty interests you. IM is a primary care residency, so the COMLEX shouldn't pose any problems there. But when you go for the fellowship, will it really make any difference at that point. What if you came from a highly rated IM residency and performed extremely well there. Are there really going to be THAT many allopathic fellowships that turn you down merely because you took the COMLEX and not the USMLE? My gut feeling is no, but I have no clue seeing as how I won't be exposed to any medical field until next August. Does somebody know?

 

[drusso]

COMLEX is considered a parallel pathway for licensure for DO's in Texas. They do not have to take the USMLE. Many of my classmates who are certain that they are staying in Texas regardless of career choice are only taking COMLEX. The whole COMLEX vs. USMLE thing really comes down to satisfying a minority of directors in competitive specialities. One has little to lose by taking the first step of USMLE if he/she thinks that derm, ophth, surg, neuro, radio, etc are in your future.

And, the other poster is correct, if one chooses to pursue a specialty med fellowship post-IM residency, it will matter even less which test you took! By that time, fellowship directors are much, much more interested in research and letters of rec than they are your licensing exam scores...

--dave

 

[matt s]

DO 2 Be,
I was just curious, is that friend of yours who is doing the ortho residency in an allopathic or osteopathic program? I assume by your post that it is an allopathic. If so I am happy as the prospect of taking two tests of the magnitude of the USMLE and COMLEX just so that I could compete for a good residency is kind of daunting.

 

[DOGBOY]

Gullick,

The last time I checked DO and MD were the SAME profession! Both are physicians if I am correct.

 

[OsteoDOC]

It always cracks me up when premeds start worrying about whether or not to take both COMLEX and USMLE or get all up tight about residency. You haven't even started medical school yet. Trust me, there is plenty of time to deal with those issues. If you want to stress out, worry about all the anatomy, physiology, microbiology, biochemistry, pharmacology you are going to have to learn.

For now, just be excited that you were accepted into medical school and enjoy the time you have before you have to start.

As for taking both exams, I only took the NBOME (COMLEX hadn't started when I took Part 1). I did pretty well..scoring over 600. I applied to both AOA FM programs and ACGME FM programs. I was never told I had to take the USMLE by any of the ACGME programs. Well, as it turns out, I didn't match in the AOA match but I did match into a PGY1 spot at U.C. San Francisco/University Medical Center-Fresno for Family Medicine. So, why don't you get through the first two years of medical school and then decide if you want to sit for TWO 16 hrs exams. Hell, I didn't want to sit for one of them.

Brandon A, MS4
Western University/COMP

 

[medstudentNY]

Nicely put Brandon. Relax and get through anatomy! I am taking both boards, everyone I have spoken to says they are the same except for OMM and that the USMLE has longer passages w/ more distractors which translates into harder. I dont know what I want to specialize in, but, I know that for primary care, you do not need the USMLE, for hotter specialties, it helps. So, it's one extra day, big deal, we use USMLE books to prepare anyway! As for there not being DOs in NY, not true. Esp for peds (an easy match), you do not need the USMLE. Our grads match primary care w/ comlex all the time, so to the florida guy, dont worry.

 

[rob2002]

Unless you intend to practice in LA you do not have to sit for the USMLE. I have a friend who did a ACGME surgical residency, one of the toughest residencies to get, with only the complex. He's now doing a cardiothoracic fellowship up in massachusetts, a hard core old medicine state.

It can be done.

 

[VM]

Rob2002, Was COMPLEX a Freudian slip (instead of COMLEX)?

We students entering this fall or other pre-meds shouldn't be too concerned about this yet. But, it never hurts to find out about some of this ahead of time. Just not to stress out over it. Me, I'm taking it easy for once in my life. It's going to get hard this fall. So I might as well kick back. I can't wait until it gets even warmer so I can go hiking. We pre-meds have been chasing that elusive carrot for so long, I think sometimes we forget how to relax.