UVM Larner vs Dartmouth (Geisel)

[URMReader]

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[ClashRoyaleKing]

I think the PROs of Dartmouth outweight the PROs of UVM. Give yourself the best possiblity of a strong match should you choose something competitive (such as ENT).

I would personally choose Dartmouth. Congrats on such a successful cycle.

 

[ACKjp]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to post this thread to ask people about perceptions of these two schools and which they think might be the better fit for me in particular. What I value most about the programs is not ranking, prestige, etc, but student well-being, as well as location. For full transparency, I am from the South, and don't like the city life. I have lived rural before and prefer the community around rural environments, and college towns are my favorite (like Iowa City, or Burlington VT). Choosing between these two schools are hard because I love the environment at both, and of course I intend to get a better look on second look day, but I wanted to ask online to get a better grasp of others' thoughts.

Cost: About the same at each. Financial aid TBD

UVM
Pros:
- True P/F Curriculum
- Extremely supportive admin, one student said they felt like their dean would literally drive to their house and wake them up to study if they began to fall behind.
- Active learning
- Burlington, VT, is an area I could see myself settling down in.
- Very liberal environment, as an LGBT URM that's important to me. Lots of trans-affirming care (free!) available at UVM.
- 120 students. Small class.

Unsure:
- Mandatory Lecture (I personally think this is good, since I really want to build an environment with my class, and can't imagine doing that at a school with 5-10 hours mandatory weekly. Students say it's only a few hours a day, but it could be overbearing)
- Much older students, although I also think this is good. I may stick out like a sore thumb.

Cons
- Much weaker match list than Dartmouth. I am interested in EM/ENT (but this can change. A LOT) and would like to learn more about derm or LGBT care, and basically, want to go somewhere that sets me up to succeed. Matches in competitive residencies are in weaker programs than at Dartmouth.
- Good housing is expensive.

Dartmouth
Pros:
- Pass/Fail preclins, then H/HP/P/F.
- Hanover is a very quaint town. I don't prefer it to Burlington, but I like rural.
- Very, very strong match list. Punches above their 'ranking.' Students say residents/physicians at DHMC have a lot of connections to good residency programs, moreso than UVM, and that can make matching easier if going into competitive specialty.
- The student body is very, VERY tight knit. A class of 92 students and they start off the year with a 2 day camping trip, which I think is SO cute! Students I've spoken to say the biggest thing about Dartmouth is, as a result of their small student body and VERY remote location, you're kind of forced to interact and end up making lifelong friends.
- Medical Spanish track. Gender-Affirming care electives.
- Again, nontrad heavy school, but not to the extent of UVM. More of a 50/50 between age groups 19-23 and 24-27.

Unsure
- Similarly liberal environment, but not nearly Vermont. Questionable trans policy.
- Mandatory lecture, NOT active learning. Unsure about this... Active learning mandatory lecture makes sense, but straight up mandatory didactics?

Cons:
- Good housing is near impossible to find in Hanover, but available in nearby cities. Housing is about $1000 less than UVM (very cheap housing market in NH).
- Toxic admin? I have spoken to two M4s about the cheating scandal and they were both upset that they literally had to exhaust every single possibility/option in an attempt to fight back against admin when they were out of line, which is disheartening. However, both re-emphasized that the admin are good *people*, and were just disappointed with the entire debacle. They told me if they could go back, they would still attend Dartmouth, as they feel like they found family at Dartmouth and loved their four years there. Also, some M2s told me the admin have been very kind and warm and that it seems like admin have learned from their mistakes.

So, that about sums it up. I struggle with this choice primarily because these schools seem like two peas in a pod. Both schools even meet up periodically and face off in a hockey match. Assuming similar financial aid, I can't say I am leaning torwards one over the other. The only thing I *do* know is that the hiking trip for Dartmouth is absolutely adorable (although this plays 1% in my considerations). Also, if you watch their match day celebrations, the vibes are VERYY different. At both Dartmouth and UVM, it's very emotional and super, super warm. Dartmouth seems to have the better facilities/resources all around from what I've seen. However, all Dartmouth students are suit/tie/business professional, and the UVM students are wearing cowboy suits and pig/cow costumes. I struggle to determine which is better/how much it speaks to the culture of each school.

I'd appreciate all feedback. Thanks. It's definitely early in the cycle, but there's no time like the present.

Dartmouth hands down. Much stronger program, just across the river from VT, and the surrounding area is awesome. If the cost is broadly similar I think it’s a no-brainer to go to the one with better match lists. As someone who grew up in VT I think you’ll find the area around Dartmouth is pretty liberal. Congrats on the As!

 

[TheDataKing]

You want a chill culture. Either program will get you to where you want to go. Mandatory lecture without active learning sounds absolutely miserable. I interviewed at both for residency and CoL was significantly more in Lebanon, NH than Burlington, VT but if Dartmouths medical school isn’t in Lebanon I suppose it could be fine. I have 4-5 friends at UVM that love every aspect of it and wouldn’t have changed their decision on where to go. Many will tell you Dartmouth because it sounds more prestigious - but we’re looking at schools ranked within 10 of each other essentially. Go where you will have a life outside of medicine that you’re happy with. Dartmouth is much more rural than UVM with the closest major airport being Boston Logan. There is no Costco nearby. Just things to consider.

 

[Ole_Toe]

If you're strongly considering competitive fields like ENT or Derm or plastics, I think you're right that Dartmouth is a much better choice. While Dartmouth may not be stronger for their own residency programs, their match list is hands down better and they have a lot more resources, alumni connections, and research opportunities that will help you get where you want to be. If there's a massive difference in cost, I think you can still get to ENT or Derm from UVM, but it will quite simply require more from you. In this post P/F world, your med school matters more than ever.

 

[ACKjp]

You want a chill culture. Either program will get you to where you want to go. Mandatory lecture without active learning sounds absolutely miserable. I interviewed at both for residency and CoL was significantly more in Lebanon, NH than Burlington, VT but if Dartmouths medical school isn’t in Lebanon I suppose it could be fine. I have 4-5 friends at UVM that love every aspect of it and wouldn’t have changed their decision on where to go. Many will tell you Dartmouth because it sounds more prestigious - but we’re looking at schools ranked within 10 of each other essentially. Go where you will have a life outside of medicine that you’re happy with. Dartmouth is much more rural than UVM with the closest major airport being Boston Logan. There is no Costco nearby. Just things to consider.

Despite rankings being (somewhat) close, Dartmouth's match list is much stronger. With financials being similar, Dartmouth is the smarter choice for competitive specialties.

As someone who got into UVM but rejected from Dartmouth, I would have chosen Dartmouth 10 times out of 10.

 

[URMReader]

You want a chill culture. Either program will get you to where you want to go. Mandatory lecture without active learning sounds absolutely miserable. I interviewed at both for residency and CoL was significantly more in Lebanon, NH than Burlington, VT but if Dartmouths medical school isn’t in Lebanon I suppose it could be fine. I have 4-5 friends at UVM that love every aspect of it and wouldn’t have changed their decision on where to go. Many will tell you Dartmouth because it sounds more prestigious - but we’re looking at schools ranked within 10 of each other essentially. Go where you will have a life outside of medicine that you’re happy with. Dartmouth is much more rural than UVM with the closest major airport being Boston Logan. There is no Costco nearby. Just things to consider.

Thank you all for your feedback. I agree there is a big difference between Hanover and Burlington. I have to ensure that the students at Dartmouth are happy with their program and enjoy it too, because everyone I know at UVM loves it there. I am leaning towards Dartmouth and just hope they give me good financial aid, because if the difference in aid between UVM and Geisel is too significant, I will be choosing the cheaper option match list notwithstanding. The student culture and the extent to which the Geisel students become a community is one of the biggest reasons I'm leaning towards it.

 

[TheDataKing]

Thank you all for your feedback. I agree there is a big difference between Hanover and Burlington. I have to ensure that the students at Dartmouth are happy with their program and enjoy it too, because everyone I know at UVM loves it there. I am leaning towards Dartmouth and just hope they give me good financial aid, because if the difference in aid between UVM and Geisel is too significant, I will be choosing the cheaper option match list notwithstanding. The student culture and the extent to which the Geisel students become a community is one of the biggest reasons I'm leaning towards it.

Also important to consider grading, remediation, and what goes on your mspe at both programs. UVM is pass fail for preclinical and clerkships. That takes a huge weight off your shoulders.