UVM or NYMC?

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ashah05

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Hey anyone out there have any advice about choosing NYMC or UVM?

I will be in the Class of 2013, and am from Boston (which is why I am reluctant to go to rural Vermont).

New York seems attractive in terms of the city rotations, but I feel like UVM has a better curriculum/administration/willingness to help its students.

Thoughts???

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'Pick where you'll be happiest' (whatever that means....)

'How different is your financial aid package at both schools?'

.......Just saving a TON of pple from having to respond
 
UVM is a better school... Plus I heard that NYMC is being bought out by Touro..
 
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UVM is a better school... Plus I heard that NYMC is being bought out by Touro..

go to UVM

if you're a MD school like NYMC, why would u need money from a DO school? it just seems shady to me.
 
Pick where you think you will be happier and also pick whichever school will cost less.

You will learn the same material at both schools. You will read the same books at both schools. Medical schools is medical school. Pick the school you will enjoy more.
 
Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'm from MA, so both schools will cost me about the same.

I think both schools offer different things, and both have drawbacks.

UVM:

Pros: better curriculum and admin seems to care a lot about the students, better facilties, technology, etc

Cons: location really bums me out, too far from home, I'm not really a winter sports/outsdoorsy person

NYMC:

Pros: city rotations, diverse patient population, really close to NYC, easy to get back to Boston

Cons: first impression is that admin isnt as organized as UVM, not as much "pride" and excitement at the school as seen at UVM

These are my impressions, and I am trying to decide whether that clinical experience at NYMC would outweigh some of the shortcomings of the school OR whether the facilties/curriculum/orgnanization of UVM would outweigh the really rural non-diverse location.
 
When the ONLY pro to one of the schools is its proximity to New York City, you're decision is already made. Yea Burlington may not be the coolest city, actually I can't remember if thats even the city its in, but Vermont in general is not the same atmostphere. But I am sure that you will grow to love it, plus it is 4 years and then you can apply for residency in Manhattan if you still want that experience.

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'm from MA, so both schools will cost me about the same.

I think both schools offer different things, and both have drawbacks.

UVM:

Pros: better curriculum and admin seems to care a lot about the students, better facilties, technology, etc

Cons: location really bums me out, too far from home, I'm not really a winter sports/outsdoorsy person

NYMC:

Pros: city rotations, diverse patient population, really close to NYC, easy to get back to Boston

Cons: first impression is that admin isnt as organized as UVM, not as much "pride" and excitement at the school as seen at UVM

These are my impressions, and I am trying to decide whether that clinical experience at NYMC would outweigh some of the shortcomings of the school OR whether the facilties/curriculum/orgnanization of UVM would outweigh the really rural non-diverse location.
 
NYMC has a much better patient population and clinical experience - from wealthy, insured individuals to patients who have never seen a doctor in their 50 years of life. UVM definitely does not have anything close.

I'm not sure the UVM administration is everything it's cracked up to be here. The administration for the undergrad institution is actually pretty terrible.

That being said, I'd be deterred by the potential Touro buyout of NYMC too.
 
Just out of curiosity, does anybody have any links as to what exactly is going on with NYMC and Touro? I am kind of in the same boat and deciding between NYMC and Indiana U. I have heard some rumors, but am having trouble finding some reliable info about the merger/buyout btwn NYMC and Touro. You know how those things go too, one person says something, it can be misinterpreted, and then it turns into a rumor that may or may not have any truth to it.


I'd definitely appreciate the feedback as well.

I know how location can be such a huge thing too. The clinical experience in NY is very tempting. I don't know much about Vermont, but it sounds similar to IU in that the admin is great and the atmosphere is positive. With 5 days left I am really having trouble deciding what is most important...
 
Hey anyone out there have any advice about choosing NYMC or UVM?

I will be in the Class of 2013, and am from Boston (which is why I am reluctant to go to rural Vermont).

New York seems attractive in terms of the city rotations, but I feel like UVM has a better curriculum/administration/willingness to help its students.

Thoughts???

I had to make the same exact choice as you, and I just withdrew from NYMC. I also was concerned about the patient population but the UVM hospital FAHC does not just serve people from VT, lots of patients come from upstate New York as well.

I also talked to an MD who went to a small school at the time, UVA. He told me that he enjoyed the smaller hospital setting while he was in med school because he felt like there was more of a focus on teaching the med students as opposed to a larger hospital, where he now works, where he said med students perform lots of menial tasks because the hospital is so inundated. In the end it is up to you and I hope I was able to help you out.
 
Just out of curiosity, does anybody have any links as to what exactly is going on with NYMC and Touro? I am kind of in the same boat and deciding between NYMC and Indiana U. I have heard some rumors, but am having trouble finding some reliable info about the merger/buyout btwn NYMC and Touro. You know how those things go too, one person says something, it can be misinterpreted, and then it turns into a rumor that may or may not have any truth to it.


I'd definitely appreciate the feedback as well.

I know how location can be such a huge thing too. The clinical experience in NY is very tempting. I don't know much about Vermont, but it sounds similar to IU in that the admin is great and the atmosphere is positive. With 5 days left I am really having trouble deciding what is most important...

I think NYMC is looking to merge with princeton now. Totally kidding.

I think the Touro situation can basically be summed up by saying that a Jewish organization is buying out a Catholic institution. Look at it optimistically, Jews are known for being good with their money so hopefully the school will get out of debt. Other than that, nothing will really change. Students will still rotate at the same schools. Yes some schools will be added, but I don't that it will make a huge difference. The building will still look the same. The school will still have the same professors. The school will still have the same curriculum which prepares students very well for the boards. The school will still be near new new york city. The school will still have an ugly prison at the front gate.

Maymee and OP if you don't mind me asking, what were your stats like. You can PM me if you would prefer to do that.
 
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The thing with Tuoro is that since NYMC isnt affiliated with a larger undergrad like a school like BU, Tufts, or UVM, it needs another source of cash.

NYMC said that it has been in talks with other schools for over 10 yrs or something like that, and none have ever come to fruition. The Tuoro thing is the first time it has come to the public attention because someone leaked the information. They also said that they were much further along in talks with others schools in the past (that eventually didnt happen), than they are with Tuoro right now.

Anyways, I just feel like UVM might not give me a full view during my clerkships of what I would see in that field (esp particular illnesses associated with specific ethnicities, not represented in Burlington, VT).

Is UVM really a better school than NYMC, and in the end doesnt it just matter what you take out of ur clinical years, and def your board scores that get you to a good residency?
 
They are both good schools, they are here in the US and they are accredited. Personally if someone were to ask me to pick the worst few medical schools in the US (keeping in mind that the worst are still good because like I said, they are US schools) NYMC would make that short list, along with a couple others.

Your clinical experience during 3rd and 4th year will not be much better in New York. Would you rather compete with a ton of other med students to do a few minor procedures, while seeing some cool cases... or do so many of the procedures in Vermont that you start your residency with a solid knowledge base.

Trust everyone who is posting in here, go with UVM, you will get a better education. You learn all your real "doctoring" once you start intern year anyway, and like I said earlier, if you still have the urge to learn in Manhattan you can apply for residency there.
 
They are both good schools, they are here in the US and they are accredited. Personally if someone were to ask me to pick the worst few medical schools in the US (keeping in mind that the worst are still good because like I said, they are US schools) NYMC would make that short list, along with a couple others.

Your clinical experience during 3rd and 4th year will not be much better in New York. Would you rather compete with a ton of other med students to do a few minor procedures, while seeing some cool cases... or do so many of the procedures in Vermont that you start your residency with a solid knowledge base.

Trust everyone who is posting in here, go with UVM, you will get a better education. You learn all your real "doctoring" once you start intern year anyway, and like I said earlier, if you still have the urge to learn in Manhattan you can apply for residency there.

Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike NYMC so much?
 
Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike NYMC so much?

I don't dislike it! Like I said, it is a good school... But if you are trying to compare it to other schools, it just doesn't stack up. Plus you combine this with the fact that it is UBER expensive, and it is just way down on the list. Now if it was the only school that I was able to get into, I would be ecstatic go there and love it. I just think that if a student has the chance to either go there or to another school they would be better served by attending the other school.

I haven't been there, but a lot of my current clasmates have interviewed there and they all share this opinion. It is widely touted as a "safety" school (if there is truly such a school.)... Anyway, I don't dislike it, it just is one of the "worse" medical schools here.
 
I guess I'm not really sure what you mean. I've heard NYMC has a pretty nice clinical setup, being responsible for most of the medical care in the Westchester area. I know their facilities aren't great and their admissions people are really disorganized but the school itself seems to have a pretty solid reputation as far as I've heard. Cost is certainly an issue, but I'm not really sure it is very different than other private schools like Rush, Loyola, or Jefferson, and seems to be a bit more competitive than schools like Drexel or Temple in my experience. I didn't apply there and really have no opinion about NYMC either way but I was interested to hear this and just curious why you felt that way.
 
I guess I'm not really sure what you mean. I've heard NYMC has a pretty nice clinical setup, being responsible for most of the medical care in the Westchester area. I know their facilities aren't great and their admissions people are really disorganized but the school itself seems to have a pretty solid reputation as far as I've heard. Cost is certainly an issue, but I'm not really sure it is very different than other private schools like Rush, Loyola, or Jefferson, and seems to be a bit more competitive than schools like Drexel or Temple in my experience. I didn't apply there and really have no opinion about NYMC either way but I was interested to hear this and just curious why you felt that way.

I really do agree with you, it is a good school, the problem is with 120 something medical schools even though they are truly all good, if you want to compare them some will be "worse" than others. Based on my experiences, NYMC would just be placed near the bottom. Other private schools are expensive... And I would place Drexel and Temple near the bottom too so comparing those isn't a great comparison... Either way, the OP is admitted to two US schools and that is a great position to be in.
 
I really do agree with you, it is a good school, the problem is with 120 something medical schools even though they are truly all good, if you want to compare them some will be "worse" than others. Based on my experiences, NYMC would just be placed near the bottom. Other private schools are expensive... And I would place Drexel and Temple near the bottom too so comparing those isn't a great comparison... Either way, the OP is admitted to two US schools and that is a great position to be in.

I guess I was just curious specifically why you felt that way. You can PM me if you don't want to post it here... Everyone has schools they don't like for whatever reason. I detested a certain top 50 school to the point that I withdrew from them by handwriting a note to the admissions office during the interview day haha.
 
OP, your experiences and "pride" in whatever school you decide to attend will be completely what you make of it. It was a mostly postive experience for me when I went for my interview at NYMC and I was very glad to be accepted to their program...the pros for me were the location, how well the students get along, and I thought it pretty disappointing that NYMC has the reputation that it does (though I think that is more a result of SDNers' love affair for school rankings, and I don't think UVM is very different numbers wise). Students have had a 100% Step 1 pass rate for the past three years and the curriculum is a great balance of traditional didactic and PBL in the preclinical years. That said, I didn't appy to UVM but I maintain that all else equal they are both great schools but NY has an obvious advantage.

As for the Touro merger, NYMC doesn't have an affiliated undergrad institution and in this economy that can take a huge toll...though I personally wish a merger would have worked out with a more reputable program I am fully confident it will not have anything less than a positive impact on my medical school education. Plus, nothing is finalized should that be affecting your decision. Hope you fare well in whatever you decide.
 
I don't understand why people are saying NYMC merging with Touro is a bad thing. Wouldn't merging with a university be a boon to NYMC financially? Can someone enlighten me?
 
I don't understand why people are saying NYMC merging with Touro is a bad thing. Wouldn't merging with a university be a boon to NYMC financially? Can someone enlighten me?

Pretty simple - it is the DO connection. One of the biggest concerns among current NYMC students is any reference to Touro on their diplomas...in other words, a truly superficial thing.

From what I have read, this is a good merger for NYMC that will shore up finances and expand clinical opportunities.
 
I had to make the same exact choice as you, and I just withdrew from NYMC. I also was concerned about the patient population but the UVM hospital FAHC does not just serve people from VT, lots of patients come from upstate New York as well.

I also talked to an MD who went to a small school at the time, UVA. He told me that he enjoyed the smaller hospital setting while he was in med school because he felt like there was more of a focus on teaching the med students as opposed to a larger hospital, where he now works, where he said med students perform lots of menial tasks because the hospital is so inundated. In the end it is up to you and I hope I was able to help you out.
To be fair, upstate NY isn't known for its diversity either. Also, NYMC is affiliated with Hospitals like Greenwich, Danbury, and some other smaller facilities in NY - all of which give a smaller, more intimate teaching environment.

They are both good schools, they are here in the US and they are accredited. Personally if someone were to ask me to pick the worst few medical schools in the US (keeping in mind that the worst are still good because like I said, they are US schools) NYMC would make that short list, along with a couple others.

Your clinical experience during 3rd and 4th year will not be much better in New York. Would you rather compete with a ton of other med students to do a few minor procedures, while seeing some cool cases... or do so many of the procedures in Vermont that you start your residency with a solid knowledge base.

Trust everyone who is posting in here, go with UVM, you will get a better education. You learn all your real "doctoring" once you start intern year anyway, and like I said earlier, if you still have the urge to learn in Manhattan you can apply for residency there.
a) I'm not even going to dignify "worst few medical schools" with a response other than to say that you should take a look at the NYMC match list. I'd also point out that to say that to put a school that has a 100% pass rate on Step 1 for the last few years as "one of the worst" shows a lot of hubris for a pre-medical student who has never even seen the school for him/herself. A few years ago I found a list of medical schools by undergrad GPA and MCAT. NYMC was a LOT higher than most would expect, while some state schools were shockingly low. There are schools where 5-10% of senior students go unmatched and have to scramble, this is something that doesn't happen at NYMC. (OK, so maybe I am going to dignify that statement with response...)

b) Your statement regarding procedures shows a lack of understanding of how these things work. NY teaching hospitals are big and busy, but not flooded with students. UVM has 100 students/yr and 1 main teaching hospital (Fletcher Allen). NYMC has 180 students/yr and four university hospitals, as well as numerous smaller affiliates. Fletcher Allen has about the same number of beds and volume as Westchester, which is only 1 of NYMC's affiliated hospitals. In essence, medical students at NYMC facilities are going to have much less competition for individual attention and procedures.

c) Not "everyone" has said that UVM is the better school.

OP - I think you should pick where you will be happiest if money isn't an issue. If there's a difference of 20-30K over 4 years, then I'd go with the cheaper option. If there's not, pick where you will be happy. I am graduating from NYMC and am very happy with my education. I can honestly say that I've rotated with students from some of the "best" medical schools and felt more than prepared for anything I encountered. I've loved living in NYC for the last two years and had amazing clinical experiences.
 
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I really do agree with you, it is a good school, the problem is with 120 something medical schools even though they are truly all good, if you want to compare them some will be "worse" than others. Based on my experiences, NYMC would just be placed near the bottom. Other private schools are expensive... And I would place Drexel and Temple near the bottom too so comparing those isn't a great comparison... Either way, the OP is admitted to two US schools and that is a great position to be in.

You're kidding right? How can you say it's near the bottom of medical schools? From Harvard to to VCU you will learn the same exact material at every school. It will be presented slightly different, but it will be the same. The reactions of glycolysis won't change at Yale. The only difference would be the opportunities during clinical years, which being near NY would give NYMC the advantage.

How can NYMC be at the bottom of the barrel for medical schools if they have an above average MCAT and GPA and an above average step 1 score? You can really only rank a medical school on the strength of its students and how well they are prepared for the boards.

All of the following schools have students with lesser entering stats, thus meaning it's easier to get into, thus meaning it would be more of a safety school.

University of Alabama
University of South Alabama
University of Arizona
University of Arkansas
Loma Linda
George Washington
Howard
Central Florida
Florida State
University of South Florida
Mercer
Morehouse
Southern Illinois
University of Kansas
University of Kentucky
University of Louisville
Louisiana State University
USUHS
Michigan State
University of Mississippi
Creighton
University of Nebraska
University of Nevada
University of New Mexico
ECU
University of North Dakota
University of Toledo
Northeastern Ohio
Wright State
Samford
East Tennessee
Meharry
University of Tennessee
Texas A and M
Texas Tech
University of Utah
University of Vermont
Marshall
West Virginia
Medical College of Wisconsin

Notice how Rosalnd Franklin, St Louis, Jefferson, Eastern Virginia, VCU and Loyala and the like aren't even on here because these schools shouldn't be considered safety for the average applicant. These schools have entering students with good stats and are only safety schools for students with potential of getting into the top ten schools.

All of the schools listed above have lower entering stats so technically these should be considered safety schools over the NYMC's and the Jeffersons of the world. If you're a state resident of the above schools these are your safety schools.
 
That's a good list, Pianoman. Thanks!
 
Haha, you guys are funny... Selective reading is rampant on SDN... When I said "worst" I specifically put it in quotes and then qualified my answer by saying every US school is good but if you have to compare some are going to come out at the bottom. Also, quoting a match list to demonstrate the strength of a school is just stupid, do a search and read all of the threads about what a match list says about a school, but if you want to use that as evidence, cool...

Either way, if you think NYMC is such a great school then go there... And, if you want to label me a typical "pre-med" thats cool too, are you NYMC public liason or something? My comments were solicited advice to the OP. Obviously you hold NYMC in high regard, so go ahead and turn down Harvard and attend :)

Either way, when you have 125 schools even if they are all great, some will be less great than others. I maintain that NYMC is near the bottom of the list in terms of greatness, and certainly less great than UVM.

From Harvard to to VCU you will learn the same exact material at every school. It will be presented slightly different, but it will be the same.

No crap...

The reactions of glycolysis won't change at Yale. The only difference would be the opportunities during clinical years, which being near NY would give NYMC the advantage.

So go to NYMC over Brown, Dartmouth or any other school not in Manhattan.

How can NYMC be at the bottom of the barrel for medical schools if they have an above average MCAT and GPA and an above average step 1 score? You can really only rank a medical school on the strength of its students and how well they are prepared for the boards.

This is probably the least informed thing you said. In fact this is one of the few things that you CAN"T judge a school by. Preperation for boards is an incredibly independant process, just like your preperation for the MCAT. You can judge an undergraduate insitution by their results on the MCAT, and you can't judge a medical school by their USMLE results. The best medical school in the country could have a bunch of lazy students who don't study for the Step 1 and they all fail, while the worst could have go-getters who do really well. Do a search before you spread false hoods like this!

Oh, and saying that NYMC is good because it has above average step scores is also not a good argument. EVERY medical school in the country says they have above average scores. Obviously that is not possible... Again, search...

If you're a state resident of the above schools these are your safety schools.

There is where your argument falls apart. I believe it is obvious to anyone with a pulse that your state schools should be your "safety" schools, and that since most state schools have a preference for their residents their "stats" will be lower than other schools. Do some research before you defend the reputation of school by stating that people's state schools will be easier to get into because they have lower average "stats."

You listed almost all state schools, and primarily minority schools as an example about how hard it is to get into NYMC just makes your case weaker.

You also can judge the quality of a school based on the "stats" of those admitted, no more than you can judge the quality by the match list. If these are the criteria by which you are judging the strength of various schools you will be in for disappointment.
 
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Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'm from MA, so both schools will cost me about the same.

I think both schools offer different things, and both have drawbacks.

UVM:

Pros: better curriculum and admin seems to care a lot about the students, better facilties, technology, etc

Cons: location really bums me out, too far from home, I'm not really a winter sports/outsdoorsy person

Honestly, I don't know how the location can bum you out. It's square in the middle of Burlington. The town is absolutely amazing, even if you don't enjoy outdoorsy stuff. There is always something to do. I say...UVM.
 
Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I'm from MA, so both schools will cost me about the same.

I think both schools offer different things, and both have drawbacks.

UVM:

Pros: better curriculum and admin seems to care a lot about the students, better facilties, technology, etc

Cons: location really bums me out, too far from home, I'm not really a winter sports/outsdoorsy person

Honestly, I don't know how the location can bum you out. It's square in the middle of Burlington. The town is absolutely amazing, even if you don't enjoy outdoorsy stuff. There is always something to do. I say...UVM.
 
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Sorry about the multiple posts... computer freaked out...
 
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I'm a current student at UVM, so I can address some of the points made in previous posts. I don't know a ton about NYMC, so I won't try to sell you on UVM over NYMC, but just clear up some questions/issues that have been brought up.

One that confuses me is the idea that being in Burlington would be too far from home, but that being in NYC would be make it easy to get back to Boston. Burlington is just as close, if not closer, to Boston than NYC. It's about 3 1/2 hours from Burlington-Boston, and 4-ish from NYC to Boston. And it's all major highways with minimal traffic. Classmates go down to Boston all the time - there's a group down there for the weekend right now. And Montreal is only 2 hours away, so it's not like we're totally isolated away from any major cities. And for a small city, there's surprisingly a lot to do in town. I'm not an outdoorsy type, especially in the winter, but I still love it here and don't find myself getting bored.

Whoever said the UVM undergrad administration is terrible is right, but the med school has a completely separate administration. We don't really associate all that much with the undergrad part of the school. We're more closely tied to the administration of the hospital, which is very well run. The medical school administration is great and really willing to help the students in whichever way they can.

I won't even begin to pretend that you'd get a similar experience compared to NYC here in terms of diversity of patients, but it's not as dire as you might expect. Burlington has a very large refugee population, so I've dealt with a good variety of patients thus far. There are a lot of residents from Africa (Somalia, DRC, Sudan) as well as Burma/Myanmar and Iraq. There are also a lot of migrant farm workers from Mexico, and there is a relatively new student-run mobile clinic that helps provide health care to them. Of course the odds are still that the majority of your patients will be older white folks.

It's not true that there are 100+ students all rotating at FAHC. Right now, at least 1/3 of the students at any given time will be doing rotations at Maine Medical Center. That affiliation is ending after next year, but the school is finalizing plans to set up a couple of new options outside of FAHC. I've heard that it's likely we'll affiliate with a smaller hospital in Maine as well as a site outside of New England which could provide a more diverse and different clinical experience. A small number of students voluntarily do some of their rotations in Plattsburgh, NY and that is expected to continue as well. So by having multiple rotation sites, there are a lot fewer students in any given location, and therefore more opportunity for hands-on learning.

For me the curriculum was the big selling point for UVM, but it's not for everyone. I did really well with the integrated nature of the courses, and I love that as a second-year right now, I've already taken my boards and completed 2 clinical rotations (I'll be starting my 3rd on Monday). I can't imagine how I'd feel if I was still in the daily grind of sitting through lecture classes, especially classes that are more heavy on memorization rather than integrating concepts. But that's me - I know a lot of people like the 'traditional' curriculum of other schools just fine. It's not a reason not to go to NYMC or another school like that, it's just a plus for UVM.

If you have any more questions about UVM, I'd be happy to answer them - good luck to everyone making decisions this week!
 
There is where your argument falls apart. I believe it is obvious to anyone with a pulse that your state schools should be your "safety" schools, and that since most state schools have a preference for their residents their "stats" will be lower than other schools. Do some research before you defend the reputation of school by stating that people's state schools will be easier to get into because they have lower average "stats."

You listed almost all state schools, and primarily minority schools as an example about how hard it is to get into NYMC just makes your case weaker.

You also can judge the quality of a school based on the "stats" of those admitted, no more than you can judge the quality by the match list. If these are the criteria by which you are judging the strength of various schools you will be in for disappointment.


Please do tell me, what have you learned interviewing at NYMC and other medical schools that makes you an expert on why NYMC is so inadequate compared to other schools? Enlighten me, please.
 
Please do tell me, what have you learned interviewing at NYMC and other medical schools that makes you an expert on why NYMC is so inadequate compared to other schools? Enlighten me, please.

I just sent you a PM... I am by no means an expert, but seeing as nobody is an expert on all 120+ schools in the US, anytime a comparison is being drawn between any number of these schools some extrapolation is necessary. My opinions are based on my life experiences thus far, colleauges and class mates who have interviewed at these schools, and just general knowledge.

Again, I am NOT putting down NYMC. It is a good school, but even multiple good schools will be a different level of good, if you will. I was just expressing my opinion for the benefit/or non-benefit of the OP. It seems that the goal of these School X vs School Y threads are meant to gather a bunch of differing opinions (as no ones can be definitive) so that the OP can read them all and help sway them one way or the other. I respect that we have different opinions on this topic, but rather than arguing we should just accept that we have different opinions. We have both presented our opinions and the OP, or anyone else deciding between these schools can use it as they see fit.

I apologize for coming off as abrasive in my earlier post(s), apparently I was grumpy and should have waited to respond until i was in a better mood :) I stand by my content, but could have delivered it in a much friendlier way.

And also, I don't think I ever said that NYMC was inadequate, Im pretty sure I was careful to always qualify my posts with the fact that it was a good school. That being said, if I did say that, I didn't mean to.

Congrats again OP on having such a great choice to make!
 
Please do tell me, what have you learned interviewing at NYMC and other medical schools that makes you an expert on why NYMC is so inadequate compared to other schools? Enlighten me, please.

I don't think DrJD interviewed at NYMC.

Personally when I think about "tiers" of med schools (mostly to tell people which schools to apply to in WAMC) I'd always put NYMC one tier higher than UVM, but that's probably because UVM a OOS-friendly state school that has pretty low entering stats. My tiers are generally pretty broad. Tier 1 = ~the top 25. Tier 2 = ~the top 50 Tier 3 = higher stat OOS friendly state schools and private schools Tier 4: everyone else

I also disagree with what DrJD said about entering stats. That's a proxy for competitiveness, and is really the only metric you can use to judge the quality of an incoming class. There are some exceptions to this (UCSF) but in general, it's true.
 
I don't think DrJD interviewed at NYMC.

Personally when I think about "tiers" of med schools (mostly to tell people which schools to apply to in WAMC) I'd always put NYMC one tier higher than UVM, but that's probably because it's a OOS-friendly state school that has pretty low entering stats.

I also disagree with what DrJD said about entering stats. That's a proxy for competitiveness, and is really the only metric you can use to judge the quality of an incoming class. There are some exceptions to this (UCSF) but in general, it's true.

Yes and no... You might be able to make an argument when comparing apples to apples, IE Private to Private, or Public to Public... But doing so between Private and Public, even an OOS friend one, I think is not going to be accurate.

So I agree with you that it can be a proxy, but not in this case that the OP brought up, in my opinion.
 
Yes and no... You might be able to make an argument when comparing apples to apples, IE Private to Private, or Public to Public... But doing so between Private and Public, even an OOS friend one, I think is not going to be accurate.

So I agree with you that it can be a proxy, but not in this case that the OP brought up, in my opinion.

something like 60% of the people at UVM aren't from Vermont. There's probably as many NY people at NYMC as there is Vermont people at UVM... I think it's perfectly valid to compare entering stats in that case.
 
I just sent you a PM... I am by no means an expert, but seeing as nobody is an expert on all 120+ schools in the US, anytime a comparison is being drawn between any number of these schools some extrapolation is necessary. My opinions are based on my life experiences thus far, colleauges and class mates who have interviewed at these schools, and just general knowledge.

Again, I am NOT putting down NYMC. It is a good school, but even multiple good schools will be a different level of good, if you will. I was just expressing my opinion for the benefit/or non-benefit of the OP. It seems that the goal of these School X vs School Y threads are meant to gather a bunch of differing opinions (as no ones can be definitive) so that the OP can read them all and help sway them one way or the other. I respect that we have different opinions on this topic, but rather than arguing we should just accept that we have different opinions. We have both presented our opinions and the OP, or anyone else deciding between these schools can use it as they see fit.

I apologize for coming off as abrasive in my earlier post(s), apparently I was grumpy and should have waited to respond until i was in a better mood :) I stand by my content, but could have delivered it in a much friendlier way.

And also, I don't think I ever said that NYMC was inadequate, Im pretty sure I was careful to always qualify my posts with the fact that it was a good school. That being said, if I did say that, I didn't mean to.

Congrats again OP on having such a great choice to make!

No offense, but I just think it's pointless when pre-meds and even medical students give insight on the X vs Y school threads from hearsay alone. I have no experience on UVM and thus I didn't comment on it. You will also see that the individuals who had no insight on NYMC, but had first hand info on UVM, commented on it, but stated they did not know much about NYMC. Simply replying to the OP based on what you have heard does little for the OP except further spread misconceptions. Unless you've been a student at the school, worked there, interviewed there, rotated there, you offer little help to the OP.
 
No offense, but I just think it's pointless when pre-meds and even medical students give insight on the X vs Y school threads from hearsay alone. I have no experience on UVM and thus I didn't comment on it. You will also see that the individuals who had no insight on NYMC, but had first hand info on UVM, commented on it, but stated they did not know much about NYMC. Simply replying to the OP based on what you have heard does little for the OP except further spread misconceptions. Unless you've been a student at the school, worked there, interviewed there, rotated there, you offer little help to the OP.

Thanks for you opinion :) But you should direct it to the OP, it is his decision whether or not he would like to listen to the advice or not. And, I stated earlier that it is not based only on what I've "heard." You don't know my personal experience with NYMC or UVM, and I haven't offered it up either, nor do I intend to. Why? Because I don't really care if the OP listens to my advice, why? Cause its an anonymous forum!

Jeez, its a forum, clearly he is requesting opinions and I offered one. If everyone who offered an opinion was required to list out their years of life experiences that led them to that opinion, there would be no room... So lets just let the OP deal with the info.
 
Hey anyone out there have any advice about choosing NYMC or UVM?

I will be in the Class of 2013, and am from Boston (which is why I am reluctant to go to rural Vermont).

New York seems attractive in terms of the city rotations, but I feel like UVM has a better curriculum/administration/willingness to help its students.

Thoughts???


It's not like NYMC is in Manhattan or anything. Vermont is beautiful and Burlington is only 1.5 hrs from Montreal. Just because a school is more rural doesn't mean the clinical experience will be worse. On the contrary, as the only medical center serving a large catchment area you might see more than an urban setting. Do not underestimate the importance of having a supportive admin, it can make a huge difference.

I have no relation to either school, btw, just giving my $0.02.
 
True, NYMC isn't in Manhattan- in all reality it is pretty isolated. There is the school and the hospitals on campus and the apartaments. You have to drive a bit to get to the store/restaurants/etc. meaning there aren't a lot of things within walking distance. At the same time, I think it's cool you can be away from the craziness of the city when all you are doing is studying. You just have a short train ride though to be right in Manhattan so it is still realistic to go there for dinner/a show/ whatever. Then you get to have the benefits of the city (if you so desire) your second two years. I don't know anything about UVM, but my interview day at NYMC was a little disorganized but that was due a lot to a winter storm and having to combine 2 days worth of interviews. I thought the admin ppl we met were helpful and definitely willing to answer questions.
 
Haha, you guys are funny... Selective reading is rampant on SDN... When I said "worst" I specifically put it in quotes and then qualified my answer by saying every US school is good but if you have to compare some are going to come out at the bottom. Also, quoting a match list to demonstrate the strength of a school is just stupid, do a search and read all of the threads about what a match list says about a school, but if you want to use that as evidence, cool...
I think NYMC's match list is one of its strengths. You can say it's useless all you want, and that's your prerogative.

Also, I didn't call you a "typical" pre-med. I said that your comments as someone who had never even interviewed at NYMC exhibited a lot of hubris for a pre-med. I guess even you aren't immune to selective reading.

As far as going to NYMC, I did. I'm graduating. I've seen both the preclinical and clinical sides of NYMC, which is substantially more than most people. Thus, I feel fairly qualified to offer my opinion.

I'm a current student at UVM, so I can address some of the points made in previous posts. I don't know a ton about NYMC, so I won't try to sell you on UVM over NYMC, but just clear up some questions/issues that have been brought up.

One that confuses me is the idea that being in Burlington would be too far from home, but that being in NYC would be make it easy to get back to Boston. Burlington is just as close, if not closer, to Boston than NYC. It's about 3 1/2 hours from Burlington-Boston, and 4-ish from NYC to Boston. And it's all major highways with minimal traffic. Classmates go down to Boston all the time - there's a group down there for the weekend right now. And Montreal is only 2 hours away, so it's not like we're totally isolated away from any major cities. And for a small city, there's surprisingly a lot to do in town. I'm not an outdoorsy type, especially in the winter, but I still love it here and don't find myself getting bored.

While it may be geographically as close, it's much easier to get from NY to Boston. I have the option of 3 or 4 different bus lines not even including the Fung Wah death trap, Amtrak, and flying from LaGuardia (which sometimes only costs $100 round trip). Driving to-from Boston to either place can get tricky on a limited student budget, so having many mass transportation options makes it easier. Burlington does not have that to offer.

It's not like NYMC is in Manhattan or anything. Vermont is beautiful and Burlington is only 1.5 hrs from Montreal. Just because a school is more rural doesn't mean the clinical experience will be worse. On the contrary, as the only medical center serving a large catchment area you might see more than an urban setting. Do not underestimate the importance of having a supportive admin, it can make a huge difference.

I have no relation to either school, btw, just giving my $0.02.

NYMC is very close to Manhattan (30 minute train ride) and you have the option of living in Manhattan. In addition, Westchester is the only medical center serving NY from the Bronx to Albany in addition to Western CT and a small sliver of Pennsylvania. We cover even more of NY for complicated peds cases and severe burns. You won't get a more diverse case mix (it had the highest Medicare case mix index a few years ago, I can't say I've kept up since then), so your argument kind of falls flat on that count.
 
NYMC is very close to Manhattan (30 minute train ride) and you have the option of living in Manhattan. In addition, Westchester is the only medical center serving NY from the Bronx to Albany in addition to Western CT and a small sliver of Pennsylvania. We cover even more of NY for complicated peds cases and severe burns. You won't get a more diverse case mix (it had the highest Medicare case mix index a few years ago, I can't say I've kept up since then), so your argument kind of falls flat on that count.

I wasn't saying that NYMC *didn't* have good clinical exposure, just that attending a rural school does not necessarily mean your education will suffer. No need to get defensive. And I stand by my statement that Westchester is not Manhattan.
 
While it may be geographically as close, it's much easier to get from NY to Boston. I have the option of 3 or 4 different bus lines not even including the Fung Wah death trap, Amtrak, and flying from LaGuardia (which sometimes only costs $100 round trip). Driving to-from Boston to either place can get tricky on a limited student budget, so having many mass transportation options makes it easier. Burlington does not have that to offer.

Burlington does have Greyhound buses to Boston, Amtrak (although I don't think they have direct service to Boston), and an airport with reasonable flights via JetBlue. And it's a pretty direct and easy drive to Boston. No, it's certainly not NYC in terms of options, but it's really not as isolated as people make it out to be.
 
I wasn't saying that NYMC *didn't* have good clinical exposure, just that attending a rural school does not necessarily mean your education will suffer. No need to get defensive. And I stand by my statement that Westchester is not Manhattan.

My point was that NYMC offers both the "only facility serving a huge catchment area" and the city experience. And no, Westchester is not, in fact, Manhattan. My wallet thanks me for that :D
 
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