VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Rumor here is that the local leadership aren't bringing it back because they don't want it to get taken away again and have to redo the office assignments/deal with impact/deal with anger.

Honestly, we have telework agreements again and the language in the new contracts is so stringent that it really is not worth having. It basically boiled down to, you can telework instead of weather and safety leave or if you have a Dr's appt and would take the whole day off. No telework to benefit employees, only if it benefits the VA.
 
Honestly, we have telework agreements again and the language in the new contracts is so stringent that it really is not worth having. It basically boiled down to, you can telework instead of weather and safety leave or if you have a Dr's appt and would take the whole day off. No telework to benefit employees, only if it benefits the VA.
Sadly, your telework agreement is way more generous than other VISNs.
 
Honestly, we have telework agreements again and the language in the new contracts is so stringent that it really is not worth having. It basically boiled down to, you can telework instead of weather and safety leave or if you have a Dr's appt and would take the whole day off. No telework to benefit employees, only if it benefits the VA.
Our site is still largely functioning as hybrid telework for psychologists supposedly due to spacing, but it's a ghost town every day I'm there. We have several psychologists working fully remote who were not hired as remote but moved away. We have newer staff who aren't allowed hybrid any more and are fully RTO since April. Management says that was decided by big VA based on number of virtual appointments or something like that. Our psychologists who are fully remote due to work arounds (combinations of accommodations and management getting their positions reclassified as remote) have complained a bit about no longer getting our local SSR and having to get the SSR of the VA hospital system of their actual physical location, but the reality is they aren't entitled to remote work and they were being paid more than they should have been to be fully remote at their preferred location. There is an undercurrent of resentment/frustration here about legitimate unfair treatment across different psychologists who have similar functions (e.g., outpatient general mental health and specialty clinics). I think management is right to advocate for their people, who knows when positions will actually get backfilled if our remote workers leave. It is a little harder to like some of my colleagues who are getting advantages I don't get and then whining about their lot (e.g., slightly reduced SSR, difficulties with patients connecting to VVC) when they don't have a commute and literally have to put in less effort to do the same job while other VA systems are not giving their psychologists the same level of leeway. None of us are entitled to anything at this point, not even relative job security, and it is important to keep that in perspective.
 
It was such a cute game! I have been doing Stardew Valley again as things have gotten dystopian.
You should try Rimworld, then, lol. It's been described as a 'war crime / atrocity generator.' Very much in keeping with current events/stressors. It's sort of like "Sims in space" (colony building) with assault rifles, starvation, organ harvesting, and molotov cocktails.
 
Our site is still largely functioning as hybrid telework for psychologists supposedly due to spacing, but it's a ghost town every day I'm there. We have several psychologists working fully remote who were not hired as remote but moved away. We have newer staff who aren't allowed hybrid any more and are fully RTO since April. Management says that was decided by big VA based on number of virtual appointments or something like that. Our psychologists who are fully remote due to work arounds (combinations of accommodations and management getting their positions reclassified as remote) have complained a bit about no longer getting our local SSR and having to get the SSR of the VA hospital system of their actual physical location, but the reality is they aren't entitled to remote work and they were being paid more than they should have been to be fully remote at their preferred location. There is an undercurrent of resentment/frustration here about legitimate unfair treatment across different psychologists who have similar functions (e.g., outpatient general mental health and specialty clinics). I think management is right to advocate for their people, who knows when positions will actually get backfilled if our remote workers leave. It is a little harder to like some of my colleagues who are getting advantages I don't get and then whining about their lot (e.g., slightly reduced SSR, difficulties with patients connecting to VVC) when they don't have a commute and literally have to put in less effort to do the same job while other VA systems are not giving their psychologists the same level of leeway. None of us are entitled to anything at this point, not even relative job security, and it is important to keep that in perspective.
I take a different approach when I see people getting things I don't have. It's a place to negotiate. I didn't start with any teleworking days, but I saw some providers had them. I negotiated for them because I was always in the position to leave and my boss wanted to keep me. It didn't cost the VA anything and it was a simple way to keep me happy. It's better to have people getting MORE things to open the door for you to ask for the same. It's harder to get something approved if it's not approved for anyone. I appreciate when people complain and advocate for better stuff.

I am absolutely entitled to things. The VA isn't doing me a favor by keeping me on. This relationship is purely transactional and they're getting the better end of the bargain already. I'm always going to ask for better. If I get a no, I will push to see if it's a hard no or a "no, right now." That's why I know that telework is currently a hard no. I hate my commute, and I know it's not sustainable. I needed to know if hanging on made any sense. Now I know it doesn't.
 
You should try Rimworld, then, lol. It's been described as a 'war crime / atrocity generator.' Very much in keeping with current events/stressors. It's sort of like "Sims in space" (colony building) with assault rifles, starvation, organ harvesting, and molotov cocktails.
I watch other people play RimWorld because of all of the controls it has. It does look fun though!
 
Our site is still largely functioning as hybrid telework for psychologists supposedly due to spacing, but it's a ghost town every day I'm there. We have several psychologists working fully remote who were not hired as remote but moved away. We have newer staff who aren't allowed hybrid any more and are fully RTO since April. Management says that was decided by big VA based on number of virtual appointments or something like that. Our psychologists who are fully remote due to work arounds (combinations of accommodations and management getting their positions reclassified as remote) have complained a bit about no longer getting our local SSR and having to get the SSR of the VA hospital system of their actual physical location, but the reality is they aren't entitled to remote work and they were being paid more than they should have been to be fully remote at their preferred location. There is an undercurrent of resentment/frustration here about legitimate unfair treatment across different psychologists who have similar functions (e.g., outpatient general mental health and specialty clinics). I think management is right to advocate for their people, who knows when positions will actually get backfilled if our remote workers leave. It is a little harder to like some of my colleagues who are getting advantages I don't get and then whining about their lot (e.g., slightly reduced SSR, difficulties with patients connecting to VVC) when they don't have a commute and literally have to put in less effort to do the same job while other VA systems are not giving their psychologists the same level of leeway. None of us are entitled to anything at this point, not even relative job security, and it is important to keep that in perspective.

Anger should not be directed at employees, but at management for not implementing policy consistently. That said, use this as a lesson. Post-covid, the VA was struggling to hold on to mental health staff. If you did not renegotiate your contract at that time, you lost out. New policies are going to make it difficult to recruit staff in rural areas. We have one job posting in a rural area about to go live and expect no takers. Without remote work, those positions go unfilled. It makes it that much harder on whoever is left.
 
Anger should not be directed at employees, but at management for not implementing policy consistently. That said, use this as a lesson. Post-covid, the VA was struggling to hold on to mental health staff. If you did not renegotiate your contract at that time, you lost out. New policies are going to make it difficult to recruit staff in rural areas. We have one job posting in a rural area about to go live and expect no takers. Without remote work, those positions go unfilled. It makes it that much harder on whoever is left.

Save some of that anger for the population that you serve, whom voted overwhelmingly for this very thing to happen. Give them what they voted for.
 
Anger should not be directed at employees, but at management for not implementing policy consistently. That said, use this as a lesson. Post-covid, the VA was struggling to hold on to mental health staff. If you did not renegotiate your contract at that time, you lost out. New policies are going to make it difficult to recruit staff in rural areas. We have one job posting in a rural area about to go live and expect no takers. Without remote work, those positions go unfilled. It makes it that much harder on whoever is left.
I don't think the frustration gets directed at anyone. It is not a fair situation, but it is equitable. I'd rather have my colleagues remote working than not working or dealing with unstable income. They could probably be a bit more considerate about some of the privilege they have right now, and vice versa.
 
I take a different approach when I see people getting things I don't have. It's a place to negotiate. I didn't start with any teleworking days, but I saw some providers had them. I negotiated for them because I was always in the position to leave and my boss wanted to keep me. It didn't cost the VA anything and it was a simple way to keep me happy. It's better to have people getting MORE things to open the door for you to ask for the same. It's harder to get something approved if it's not approved for anyone. I appreciate when people complain and advocate for better stuff.

I am absolutely entitled to things. The VA isn't doing me a favor by keeping me on. This relationship is purely transactional and they're getting the better end of the bargain already. I'm always going to ask for better. If I get a no, I will push to see if it's a hard no or a "no, right now." That's why I know that telework is currently a hard no. I hate my commute, and I know it's not sustainable. I needed to know if hanging on made any sense. Now I know it doesn't.
No need for an argument about semantics re: entitlement vs. privilege. I was just saying what my local hospital is doing and that the same RTO rules aren't getting applied even within the same discipline here where I am. I appreciate that because I'd rather my colleagues keep their jobs, and they could also check their privilege at times.

Negotiating makes sense when you have the ability to bargain. We don't have that power the way we used to, and we can choose to leave if the terms are unacceptable to us. It sucks the VA is losing another psychologist. I hope the next position is what you need in this moment and that you feel more fulfilled in the care you provide and in compensation.
 
No need for an argument about semantics re: entitlement vs. privilege. I was just saying what my local hospital is doing and that the same RTO rules aren't getting applied even within the same discipline here where I am. I appreciate that because I'd rather my colleagues keep their jobs, and they could also check their privilege at times.

Negotiating makes sense when you have the ability to bargain. We don't have that power the way we used to, and we can choose to leave if the terms are unacceptable to us. It sucks the VA is losing another psychologist. I hope the next position is what you need in this moment and that you feel more fulfilled in the care you provide and in compensation.
My ability to leave may give the people left the leverage they need to negotiate for better opportunities. Our clinic was in this same situation several years ago where multiple psychologists left at once for a host of reasons. It gave a lot of negotiating power to my supervisor and leadership gave much more freedom for them to recruit and retain staff. This ultimately benefited everyone, including new people hired (myself included). OIG recently listed psychologist as a critical position. Assuming we stabilize and build back, it will put psychologists in a good position to negotiate again.
 
No need for an argument about semantics re: entitlement vs. privilege. I was just saying what my local hospital is doing and that the same RTO rules aren't getting applied even within the same discipline here where I am. I appreciate that because I'd rather my colleagues keep their jobs, and they could also check their privilege at times.

Negotiating makes sense when you have the ability to bargain. We don't have that power the way we used to, and we can choose to leave if the terms are unacceptable to us. It sucks the VA is losing another psychologist. I hope the next position is what you need in this moment and that you feel more fulfilled in the care you provide and in compensation.

Honestly, now is a great time to negotiate. With the hiring freeze ongoing, stealing internal transfers is one of the only ways to hire. However, there are more limitations this time around on what they can negotiate. This is particularly true with regard to remote/telework.
 
What can you negotiate?

Depends on the position and the local leaderahip, but EDRP is still available for most positions and repayment period can be negotiated, sign on bonuses are still around if the need is high enough. No remote work, but you may be able to negotiate an office at an alternate worksite, like a cboc, if anything is available. If being promoted, you might have some flexibility on within grade/step increase. More limited than a few years ago, but you can always put feelers out for a deal.
 
Last edited:
We have some people currently teleworking, but it's up for review every so often and I'm not convinced that it will always get approved.
 
Depends on the position and the local leaderahip, but EDRP is still available for most positions and repayment period can be negotiated, sign on bonuses are still around if the need is high enough. No remote work, but you may be able to negotiate an office at an alternate worksite, like a cboc, if anything is available. If being promoted, you might have some flexibility on within grade/step increase. More limited than a few years ago, but you can always put feelers out for a deal.
I negotiated a sign on bonus and higher step when I started ~1 year ago but was only able to do that because I had a competing offer. Even though my debt load is relatively small, they wouldn't allow me to negotiate a term less than 2 years for EDRP. As far as telework, local leadership is not budging here.
 
Perks are better on the outside. I negotiated with my boss that he has to buy me a decent bottle of bourbon every month.
Accounting question for you: If you are formally diagnosed with DID, are you (or your boss) required to collect two paychecks from the same business? Fund two retirement accounts?
 
Accounting question for you: If you are formally diagnosed with DID, are you (or your boss) required to collect two paychecks from the same business? Fund two retirement accounts?

I mean, we kind of do get two paychecks. There's the W2 paychecks, and there is the business proceeds/dividends after everything is squared away. And, there are definitely more than two retirement accounts.
 
Sad to report minimal progress on the door situation—if this doesn’t rapidly move to an actual solution where I can move around and go to the bathroom freely every day, I don’t know how much longer I can sustain this, especially as I have a higher paying offer elsewhere.
 
Sad to report minimal progress on the door situation—if this doesn’t rapidly move to an actual solution where I can move around and go to the bathroom freely every day, I don’t know how much longer I can sustain this, especially as I have a higher paying offer elsewhere.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you have put up with it this long.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I'm not sure why you have put up with it this long.
I guess I worry that I would be blacklisted for leaving after a few weeks. But I am so, so tired of having to say things like “I’m not comfortable being locked in a room for 9 hours,” “I have to go to the bathroom everyday,” and “if you only open 2 of the 3 doors, I’m still stuck” and to be met with blank stares.
 
Top