VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

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I actually had an incident last week where my team lead questioned me as to why I was putting in the no show note for group members who no showed, but didn't call them. I advised them that I do not have time to call group members who missed their appointment. Simple as that. Alternatively, when I have an individual who misses their appointment, I wait 15 minutes, and exactly 16 minutes later I am calling the veteran to let them know the appointment was indicated as a no show and/or re-schedule their appointment. If they no show their intake appointment, then I direct them to my PSA to have them schedule them in my next available intake slot (which is about 1.5 months out). I only call individual appointment no shows once, not three times. I told our deputy chief (who emailed me and CC'd my supervisors) that I do not chase people down.

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I actually had an incident last week where my team lead questioned me as to why I was putting in the no show note for group members who no showed, but didn't call them. I advised them that I do not have time to call group members who missed their appointment. Simple as that. Alternatively, when I have an individual who misses their appointment, I wait 15 minutes, and exactly 16 minutes later I am calling the veteran to let them know the appointment was indicated as a no show and/or re-schedule their appointment. If they no show their intake appointment, then I direct them to my PSA to have them schedule them in my next available intake slot (which is about 1.5 months out). I only call individual appointment no shows once, not three times. I told our deputy chief (who emailed me and CC'd my supervisors) that I do not chase people down.
I believe Sanman used this earlier but I feel like it is appropriate again for the same reasons 🤣

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I actually had an incident last week where my team lead questioned me as to why I was putting in the no show note for group members who no showed, but didn't call them. I advised them that I do not have time to call group members who missed their appointment. Simple as that. Alternatively, when I have an individual who misses their appointment, I wait 15 minutes, and exactly 16 minutes later I am calling the veteran to let them know the appointment was indicated as a no show and/or re-schedule their appointment. If they no show their intake appointment, then I direct them to my PSA to have them schedule them in my next available intake slot (which is about 1.5 months out). I only call individual appointment no shows once, not three times. I told our deputy chief (who emailed me and CC'd my supervisors) that I do not chase people down.

Yup, I have a very strict 15 min cutoff as well. I see it as a boundary issue. Fortunately my supervisor said that clinically we are still considering these no shows.
 
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When leaving the VA, I probably came on a little too strong in my first clinic about a no-show being a no-show. I still have a pretty typical cancellation/no-show rate for an AMC, but at least there's accountability.
 
Suggestions for coping with veterans' entitlement in this system? I don't mean the things they are actually entitled to. I mean like when they ask for things that they do not have a right to, request services that are not good clinical practice, tell you they need a particular diagnosis and related treatment for their SC claim, act rude/aggressive with you, etc.

My dumb ass went into this believing there is something noble in serving those who served. I don't think I buy the mission anymore. Lately, I'm not sure I even like the average veteran I work with.
 
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Suggestions for coping with veterans' entitlement in this system? I don't mean the things they are actually entitled to. I mean like when they ask for things that they do not have a right to, request services that are not good clinical practice, tell you they need a particular diagnosis and related treatment for their SC claim, act rude/aggressive with you, etc.

My dumb ass went into this believing there is something noble in serving those who served. I don't think I buy the mission anymore. Lately, I'm not sure I even like the average veteran I work with.
My advice is do not avoid or steer away from the conflict. Steadily, professionally, politely, but firmly always lean into it and deal with it directly as it comes up.

Also, make sure that you heavily research and think very deeply about the issues involved so that you will know that you are on firm ground when you set your feet and hold your boundaries. For example, digging deeply into the literature on the crucial distinction between clinical vs. forensic roles and the rationale behind making and keeping that distinction was very helpful when it came time to enforce that boundary with veterans. Also, make sure to know the policy / procedures in support of boundary keeping with veterans on specific issues. For example, for a time I was getting a lot of requests to complete DBQ forms (essentially, establishing a 'nexus' for disability) by my veteran clients. I had to research the issue and found that there was actually a VA policy that discouraged mental health providers from filling these out (due to the inherent conflict between clinical and forensic roles).

Similar deal with the service dog issue or the 'caretaker' (for PTSD) issue. Know the literature. Know the reasons you have and are willing to enforce a boundary. Have discussions with colleagues although your mileage may vary here. I have open disagreements with colleagues who maintain that writing letters to get veterans to 100% service connected status (have you seen the actual criteria for 100% s/c for mental health in VA???) or writing letters flatly stating that a veteran is 'unemployable' due to PTSD is their form of 'advocating' for the veteran. They see it as noble. It is not my job to change their minds. I personally think that the most important thing is not to ever lie to or for veterans because you aren't helping them if you're lying. No one who bases their life on a lie is going to be happy for the longer term. Whatever. Know your own principles and boundaries and stick to them.

In the long run I believe it pays off because the veterans who would reject you as their therapist for not lying for them or enabling harmful behavior are going to be the ones who eat up a lot of your time unproductively and lead to burnout.

As far as the malingering/overreporting of PTSD and the whole differential diagnostic issue...that's a tough one at VA. I've seen a lot of folks settle in on one extreme ('rubber stamping' everyone as having PTSD because it's easier just to give people the dx they want') to [what I would consider] the other extreme (doing a CAPS with every single intake and going out of their way to minimize the impact of symptoms or trying really hard to 'dismantle' the diagnosis in those already diagnosed and service-connected). I have found a bit of a 'middle path' that I think makes the most sense for me. Obviously, don't just 'sling PCL-5's' to make the diagnosis. Don't take labels of symptoms at face value. Do good differential diagnostic interviewing employing a semi-structured but thorough interviewing format. Take your time to make the diagnosis (several sessions) if need be. If something doesn't make sense, don't ignore the fact that it doesn't make sense (or is a 'blank' area in the case formulation). Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the veteran somehow 'deserves' a particular diagnosis (they, and sometimes the system itself will pressure you to act this way). There are plenty of cases where objective personality assessment makes sense (MMPI/PAI) and can be used as an additional data point. Use a multi-modal assessment approach and be honest when giving feedback to the veteran. Always remember (yourself) and reinforce with the veteran what the actual service is that you're offering them (professional psychotherapy) and what that entails. I consider it the ongoing process of 'informed consent' and 'shared-decisionmaking.' Directly ask veterans why they think that they're here (in therapy) and what their goals are. I've (rarely) had veterans come right out and say, 'I just retired and I need 100% to make it financially.' I politely but firmly remind them what psychotherapy is (working on yourself) and that all that I'm doing is offering them the opportunity to engage in work (skills-building exercises) to try to (actually) reduce the level of actual disability that they experience as a result of their mental health condition and so maybe they aren't actually 'in the market' for the service that I'm offering (and that's okay, it's their choice). Sometimes it is actually helpful to remind them that if their actual goal is to increase the level of disability/SC rating then that would mean that their goal is literally pointed in the exact OPPOSITE direction of psychotherapy. I've shared this with colleagues that I have this discussion with veterans who are persistent about increasing their SC ratings and they act like I just went flatulent in church or something.

I've made it a little over a decade at VA as a MH provider (leaning into conflict on these issues, holding my ground, etc.) and just want to make it to retirement in another 10-11 years. Maybe I will or maybe I won't. But I will NOT live my professional life as a professional liar and call myself 'advocating for veterans' by lying. Just can't/won't do that. If they fire me or trump up some charges or whatever or if an angry antisocial veteran takes me out with a tire iron one day in the parking lot I don't even care at this point. I am not living my life in fear of not lying. If the veteran wants to lie to me (in detail) in order to get the PTSD diagnosis in a treatment context...guess what...they CAN. Don't care. But I am not lying (making up the details, connecting non-existent dots) for them in order to just 'go along to get along.' That's how we got here in the first place. And I've had former special forces/ combat arms veterans disclose that they avoided getting a PTSD dx and treatment like the plague (even though they clearly had it and it destroyed their lives and marriages and almost drove them to suicide) because they know so many people who abuse the system and they equate the PTSD dx with malingering. And, to a very large extent...they're not wrong. So, no, I don't think that I would be nobly 'advocating' for veterans by giving a PTSD diagnosis when I don't believe for a second that it applies. In the end, I'm keeping people who actually have the diagnosis away from seeking the help that they need. I think a lot of the very public statements of 'I'm an advocate for veterans because I write letters or I give the dx to everyone' bullcrap is simply a pathetically shallow and hollow attempt to paint over people's own cowardice, laziness, and lack of responsibility.

And one other thing (since I'm ranting). It may be in five, ten, or even fifty years but at some point everyone is going to look back on this time as a massive embarrassment for the field of psychology. There is so much disability (VA, SSDI) fraud going on in the mental health arena it is unbelievable and it is clearly unsustainable. The economic/social fallout is going to be a 'bill that comes due' some day and they will write about the psychologists of this era in, I predict, a very unflattering way.

Good luck to you.
 
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Suggestions for coping with veterans' entitlement in this system? I don't mean the things they are actually entitled to. I mean like when they ask for things that they do not have a right to, request services that are not good clinical practice, tell you they need a particular diagnosis and related treatment for their SC claim, act rude/aggressive with you, etc.

My dumb ass went into this believing there is something noble in serving those who served. I don't think I buy the mission anymore. Lately, I'm not sure I even like the average veteran I work with.
For me, this comes up in a few ways and I try to deal/compartmentalize with each a little bit differently.

When I run into veterans who are 100% service connected, probably get military pension or SSDI on top, enrolled in extra caregiver support $$$, etc but are essentially totally functional (or could be) that used to bug me a lot, especially if they were demanding or unpleasant or I perceived them as seeking even additional services.

Nowadays, I’m like, OK whatever - that’s a drop in the bucket compared to how else taxpayer money might be poorly spent and if that person has made one of their life goals to successfully navigate the VBA system, great. I’ll figure out how I can get out of the way of that as much as possible and provide any treatment that they might be interested in.

If I think they are only in mental health for benefits related reasons and aren’t engaged in treatment but also not dischargeable, I’ll try to schedule them as infrequently as possible that they are willing to agree to and go heavy on the ‘it’s totally ok to cancel and re-schedule this next appointment, yup no problem’. And they are definitely not getting the max outreach for things like missed apts if I can help it.

For veterans who demand/request specific things like charting or diagnoses, I’ll try to calmly explain my professional responsibilities and encourage them to look at my notes in My Healthy Vet and try to end that discussion as quickly as possible. And if they want to fire me or dispute something, so be it. I’ll deal with that as it comes.

For things like ESA letter requests, I’ve already made the decision beforehand that I won’t write those but will happily problem solve with them on how they can get that need met in the private sector within minutes today (and play up navigating inefficient govt systems/policies if they really want to ask others in VA).

All of these and more are unpleasant experiences but on the whole, I still have significantly more patients who are engaged in their care and are nice human beings who I like helping.

But if your caseload is too top heavy with non-treatment engaging and demanding veterans and especially if there is lots of personality pathology, that’s a bad mix that will definitely impact your burnout that might only be cured by changing clinics/jobs or leaving the VA. Good luck!
 
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Suggestions for coping with veterans' entitlement in this system? I don't mean the things they are actually entitled to. I mean like when they ask for things that they do not have a right to, request services that are not good clinical practice, tell you they need a particular diagnosis and related treatment for their SC claim, act rude/aggressive with you, etc.

My dumb ass went into this believing there is something noble in serving those who served. I don't think I buy the mission anymore. Lately, I'm not sure I even like the average veteran I work with.

I find it helpful to practice within the DBT framework of "You're doing the best you can with what you have, and you can do better."

I also think it's okay to not think of your job as particularly noble. I just work in the VA because I like trauma/PTSD and EBPs, and they have a lot of both. I don't think of myself as a "hero serving heroes" or whatever they say. I actually think it's probably more effective for VA providers to view veterans as regular people and not fetishize them like the rest of the country tends to do.

Also, remember to enter DBRS reports as appropriate, know the literature and get administrative support if a veteran throws a fit, document in your note if they ask you to say anything related to SC, and remember that saying yes to someone isn't always in their best interest. We're healthcare providers, we don't work to fulfill our patients' every whim. ESPECIALLY in mental health.
 
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I took the day off because I feel burnout creeping in. I'm almost certain my appointments didn't get canceled. I am having a hard time disengaging and recharging because of that, but things won't budge if I always jump in to fix it.
 
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I took the day off because I feel burnout creeping in. I'm almost certain my appointments didn't get canceled. I am having a hard time disengaging and recharging because of that, but things won't budge if I always jump in to fix it.
You took a day because you really needed it, you notified staff appropriately, and constantly needing to overextend yourself to do others' jobs (which includes checking that it was done, and also what we are basically asked/forced to do) is a recipe for burnout. Please detach. Really. It's ok. Can you go do something so you're forced to think about something else?

Patients will understand. The apology is not "I'm sorry I didn't contact you directly." It's "I'm disappointed that the schedulers did not notify you and I'm looking forward to working with you today."

Your oxygen mask on first.
 
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Our facility (not sure if this is a national thing or just local) is doing coding, diagnosis, and documentation audits. I haven't gotten mine yet, but the feedback others have gotten is RIDICULOUS. You get an overall percentage of how accurate your coding and diagnosis is, and they're getting dinged for stuff like using acronyms in the diagnosis section. And then they're being asked to meet with the auditor for like 90 min to discuss, like we have so much time in the world.

Who decided to devote time and resources to something like this? Like I get concerns about encounters and coding accurately, but this just seems nitpicky. If you want our notes and documentation to be that perfect, give us more admin time. And how you can determine accuracy if you didn't actually assess the patient yourself?
 
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I took the day off because I feel burnout creeping in. I'm almost certain my appointments didn't get canceled. I am having a hard time disengaging and recharging because of that, but things won't budge if I always jump in to fix it.

I do this monthly. It used to be worse at my previous VA, but now that I work remotely most days of the week, the burnout is a bit more mild. Actually, this morning our team saw a message in TEAMS from a provider saying "I am out today and next Monday - burnout is real folks."
 
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Our facility (not sure if this is a national thing or just local) is doing coding, diagnosis, and documentation audits. I haven't gotten mine yet, but the feedback others have gotten is RIDICULOUS. You get an overall percentage of how accurate your coding and diagnosis is, and they're getting dinged for stuff like using acronyms in the diagnosis section. And then they're being asked to meet with the auditor for like 90 min to discuss, like we have so much time in the world.

Who decided to devote time and resources to something like this? Like I get concerns about encounters and coding accurately, but this just seems nitpicky. If you want our notes and documentation to be that perfect, give us more admin time. And how you can determine accuracy if you didn't actually assess the patient yourself?
This is why I say that the BEST thing that could happen would be an across-the-board budget cut of 40-60% at VA (at least in mental health). There are WAY too many busybody 'auditor's positions staffed by people doing this kind of BS 'work' even as they continue to cut clinical positions.
 
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This is why I say that the BEST thing that could happen would be an across-the-board budget cut of 40-60% at VA (at least in mental health). There are WAY too many busybody 'auditor's positions staffed by people doing this kind of BS 'work' even as they continue to cut clinical positions.

Like that army of IRS agents coming soon.
 
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Like that army of IRS agents coming soon.
Yeah...I'm pretty sure they'll have their hands full going after every single mom, pop, and son online e-bay reseller who sold > $600 worth of merchandise in a year. When does bureaucracy *ever* scale back? We need some sort of constitutional amendment or something to put a cap on the number of mental health 'champions' and 'coordinators' in the VA system lest we soon have more people in coordinator/champion/excellentologist positions in mental health than we have actual practicing clinicians with caseloads. It's getting pretty ridiculous.
 
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Yeah...I'm pretty sure they'll have their hands full going after every single mom, pop, and son online e-bay reseller who sold > $600 worth of merchandise in a year. When does bureaucracy *ever* scale back? We need some sort of constitutional amendment or something to put a cap on the number of mental health 'champions' and 'coordinators' in the VA system lest we soon have more people in coordinator/champion/excellentologist positions in mental health than we have actual practicing clinicians with caseloads. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

Well, actually the IRS is an exemplar of bureaucracy scaling back. As the US population has increased significantly, and the tax code has only increased in complexity, the IRS workforce per capita has steadily declined for about 3 decades. There are a lot of examples about bureaucracy and too many admins, but the "IRS boogeyman" propaganda by the right ain't it.
 
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Yeah...I'm pretty sure they'll have their hands full going after every single mom, pop, and son online e-bay reseller who sold > $600 worth of merchandise in a year. When does bureaucracy *ever* scale back? We need some sort of constitutional amendment or something to put a cap on the number of mental health 'champions' and 'coordinators' in the VA system lest we soon have more people in coordinator/champion/excellentologist positions in mental health than we have actual practicing clinicians with caseloads. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

Those who acquire power rarely will want to give it up once people provide assent to them having it at one point.
 
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Those who acquire power rarely will want to give it up once people provide assent to them having it at one point.
Hmm. This (un?)ironically ties into multiple perspectives in the multiple raucous diversity/EDI/implicit bias threads, but more on that later and in the appropriate threads when I am so inclined.
 
Our facility (not sure if this is a national thing or just local) is doing coding, diagnosis, and documentation audits. I haven't gotten mine yet, but the feedback others have gotten is RIDICULOUS. You get an overall percentage of how accurate your coding and diagnosis is, and they're getting dinged for stuff like using acronyms in the diagnosis section. And then they're being asked to meet with the auditor for like 90 min to discuss, like we have so much time in the world.

Who decided to devote time and resources to something like this? Like I get concerns about encounters and coding accurately, but this just seems nitpicky. If you want our notes and documentation to be that perfect, give us more admin time. And how you can determine accuracy if you didn't actually assess the patient yourself?

Is this an overall percentage of how often your documentation justifies your diagnosis? Because I am not sure how they can judge accurate dx without ever meeting the patient? If so, it is not a bad practice as VA has generally been terrible at proper documentation compared to the private world. I constantly hear from trainees about things they have learned that are incorrect, such as billing telephone codes on a call to schedule a session with a patient. There are a list of acceptable acronyms that someone should supply for you guys, otherwise the while thing is a waste of time as there is no learning going on.
 
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Is this an overall percentage of how often your documentation justifies your diagnosis? Because I am not sure how they can judge accurate dx without ever meeting the patient? If so, it is not a bad practice as VA has generally been terrible at proper documentation compared to the private world. I constantly hear from trainees about things they have learned that are incorrect, such as billing telephone codes on a call to schedule a session with a patient. There are a list of acceptable acronyms that someone should supply for you guys, otherwise the while thing is a waste of time as there is no learning going on.

Can confirm. Most VA clinicians have a steep learning curve once they get out into non-VA settings
 
Is this an overall percentage of how often your documentation justifies your diagnosis? Because I am not sure how they can judge accurate dx without ever meeting the patient? If so, it is not a bad practice as VA has generally been terrible at proper documentation compared to the private world. I constantly hear from trainees about things they have learned that are incorrect, such as billing telephone codes on a call to schedule a session with a patient. There are a list of acceptable acronyms that someone should supply for you guys, otherwise the while thing is a waste of time as there is no learning going on.

I've seen the list of acceptable acronyms. Nowhere have I read that you should write "posttraumatic stress disorder," not PTSD.
 
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I've seen the list of acceptable acronyms. Nowhere have I read that you should write "posttraumatic stress disorder," not PTSD.
LOL, this place kills me sometimes.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm laughing at the VA and the BS it puts providers through all the time
 
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I've seen the list of acceptable acronyms. Nowhere have I read that you should write "posttraumatic stress disorder," not PTSD.
Okay, so I've run into a situation twice now in the past month where another MH provider has entered a specific treatment objective on my behalf for a specific patient in MH suite prior to me being informed and without my involvement, consent, input or me being given the opportunity to evaluate the patient for suitability with respect to the protocol and actually offer the protocol (myself). I just get alerted by the system that someone has entered a tx objective for the patient and listed me as the responsible person complete with target dates, frequency of sessions, etc. This is obviously unacceptable (and likely illegal/unethical) and I have professionally but firmly confronted a psychologist colleague and a nurse practitioner for this behavior twice now (two separate incidents) and notified my supervisor of my concerns (and the supervisor voiced agreement with me). I have gone into MH suite and inactivated the objective and explained why (basically, I will enter my objective if/when I offer that treatment to the patient, can provide true informed consent, and the patient agrees). Moreover, the specific protocol has clear inclusion and exclusion criteria which must be evaluated prior to offering the treatment.

It would be unethical/incompetent for ME to write and finalize a tx plan for a patient whom I have never evaluated ON MY OWN BEHALF; therefore, it is (to me) obviously unethical for another provider (or intern, or NP) to do so ON MY BEHALF and without my involvement, consent, or even awareness.

I have directed them to enter a consult request and I will evaluate and take it from there.

This has just started happening in the past month or so. Is this happening to anyone else? Thoughts?
 
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Okay, so I've run into a situation twice now in the past month where another MH provider has entered a specific treatment objective on my behalf for a specific patient in MH suite prior to me being informed and without my involvement, consent, input or me being given the opportunity to evaluate the patient for suitability with respect to the protocol and actually offer the protocol (myself). I just get alerted by the system that someone has entered a tx objective for the patient and listed me as the responsible person complete with target dates, frequency of sessions, etc. This is obviously unacceptable (and likely illegal/unethical) and I have professionally but firmly confronted a psychologist colleague and a nurse practitioner for this behavior twice now (two separate incidents) and notified my supervisor of my concerns (and the supervisor voiced agreement with me). I have gone into MH suite and inactivated the objective and explained why (basically, I will enter my objective if/when I offer that treatment to the patient, can provide true informed consent, and the patient agrees). Moreover, the specific protocol has clear inclusion and exclusion criteria which must be evaluated prior to offering the treatment.

It would be unethical/incompetent for ME to write and finalize a tx plan for a patient whom I have never evaluated ON MY OWN BEHALF; therefore, it is (to me) obviously unethical for another provider (or intern, or NP) to do so ON MY BEHALF and without my involvement, consent, or even awareness.

I have directed them to enter a consult request and I will evaluate and take it from there.

This has just started happening in the past month or so. Is this happening to anyone else? Thoughts?
Wow, I've had a lot of pushy providers ("This person HAS to be enrolled in ____") but that's wildly inappropriate. Wow.
 
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Wow, I've had a lot of pushy providers ("This person HAS to be enrolled in ____") but that's wildly inappropriate. Wow.
If I get any pushback from the NP I'm inclined to ask her (or her supervisory chain all the way up to the medical director), "So...it wouldn't be inappropriate for me to enter a tx plan into the medical record of 'Seroquel 200mg qhs' to treat psychosis in patient Smith 1234 on BEHALF of Nurse Dingleberry when she has never evaluated the patient or is even aware that I have just written HER treatment plan for her outside of her awareness, involvement or consent? You think the state board of nursing would agree?"
 
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That has happened to me outside the VA. It has been mid level providers, mostly social workers. They perceived it as part of their job, improving "access", getting patients "connected" to care plans, providing better "resources" for their treatment, all the mid level buzz words but no real awareness of the real clinical/ethical/legal issues or how the REAL evaluation and treatment is actually done. Frustrating. Especially when your admins and management are mid levels as well as don't see the problem. I guess thats what you get with managed health care systems and people aren't treated as individuals any longer. I do think it is perceived (and probably actually is) more clean cut and bigger problem all around in your example with medical staff, especially nurses, though.
 
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I may be accepting a placement at a VA.
Tell me, what the hell am I getting myself into?
 
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I may be accepting a placement at a VA.
Tell me, what the hell am I getting myself into?
In addition to what type of position and clinic (general vs specialty), I tjink the 2 biggest current factors that I think will dictate what type of experience you'll have in the VA today is access (veteran demand for MH services versus provider availability) and supervisory culture.

If you're going to a VA where every therapist is booked 3-6 months out, this will cause all kinds of headaches, from increased difficulty in taking leave to not always being able to provide full episodes of care and give engaged patients the best chance to get better.

If you're going to a VA where the hopsital/MH leadership jump to try to implement every memo/directive as soon as it comes off the desk of a random undersecretary, without regard for how it may contradict current operating procedures and stress out providers, then it's probably going to be a pretty bumpy road (as opposed to leadership that take their time try to figure out how to implement enough of new directives to stay off the radar while minimizing provider stress).
 
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I loved being a trainee in the VA, especially fellowship.
 
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I may be accepting a placement at a VA.
Tell me, what the hell am I getting myself into?
As others have said, if you're going in as a trainee, you're likely going to be shielded from the vast majority of what's being discussed in this thread. Your primary exposure will probably just be hearing supervisors talk and/or complain about it, and the limited amount of work you'll be doing in CPRS (electronic records system).

The amount of administrative burden for licensed provider employees increases exponentially compared to trainees. VA is, by and large, highly supportive and protective of trainees. Like cara and others above, I had a great time as a VA trainee.

Heck, I even mostly enjoyed my time as a VA employee. There were just more headaches to go along with it.
 
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As others have said, if you're going in as a trainee, you're likely going to be shielded from the vast majority of what's being discussed in this thread. Your primary exposure will probably just be hearing supervisors talk and/or complain about it, and the limited amount of work you'll be doing in CPRS (electronic records system).

The amount of administrative burden for licensed provider employees increases exponentially compared to trainees. VA is, by and large, highly supportive and protective of trainees. Like cara and others above, I had a great time as a VA trainee.

Heck, I even mostly enjoyed my time as a VA employee. There were just more headaches to go along with it.
Just to add to this, be prepared for any routine task added to your 'to-do' list to mutate into a full-blown multi-week PROJECT due to lack of support, inability to clarify who you need to talk to or how to contact them, locating the relevant policies, procedures, forms, "oh he quit 3 months ago," and trips around the 'circular' hierarchy of responsibility/ accountability carousel.

I have a stack of empty manilla folders handy for those oh-so-frequent "oh...I get it...this is gonna turn into a full-blown PROJECT" moments.

Simple 'to do tasks' (in any other setting) are projects at VA. It's self-service for the providers all the way.
 
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I am documenting all of my administrative tasks. It is a living document showing why I'm scattered and exhausted by the end of the day even when half of my people no-show.
 
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What kind of placement / clinic?
It's a medical center and I'd be on a primary-care integrative track I'm pretty sure.
And I'm not too worried about the facility. A lot of my colleagues/advisors have told me that it's a decent spot for training.
 
It's a medical center and I'd be on a primary-care integrative track I'm pretty sure.
And I'm not too worried about the facility. A lot of my colleagues/advisors have told me that it's a decent spot for training.
I would wholeheartedly recommend VA training and loved my VA internship and postdoc experiences.

And unless you’re at a very small medical center with limited staff, supervision isn’t usually required so the staff who choose to supervise do so because they really like the process and will usually do what they can to protect trainees.

And as far as admin burdens go, it’s usually very manageable as a trainee with your limited caseload during a time limited rotation and supervisors sometimes helping with that load. Now scale that up a couple notches and set the timeframe to infinity and it can become burdensome very quickly as a staff member.

Good luck with your experience!
 
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My experience is that trainees are largely shielded from the administrative level stresses.
I disagree. This is true until it's not. I would maybe advise keeping your head down as a trainee and trying not to make any of the mediocre staff feel inferior. I think some of the best advice I got as a trainee was to not attract attention, make supervisors feel appreciated/like they have worthwhile input even when they don't, and remember what your goal is (e.g., complete placement/internship/ residency).
 
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I disagree. This is true until it's not. I would maybe advise keeping your head down as a trainee and trying not to make any of the mediocre staff feel inferior. I think some of the best advice I got as a trainee was to not attract attention, make supervisors feel appreciated/like they have worthwhile input even when they don't, and remember what your goal is (e.g., complete placement/internship/ residency).

I've used this playbook as a trainee many many times and it works wonders.
 
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I disagree. This is true until it's not. I would maybe advise keeping your head down as a trainee and trying not to make any of the mediocre staff feel inferior. I think some of the best advice I got as a trainee was to not attract attention, make supervisors feel appreciated/like they have worthwhile input even when they don't, and remember what your goal is (e.g., complete placement/internship/ residency).
Yikes. ☹️ I don't doubt you had a different experience. Just sharing mine. I had a similar experience (at least based on your advice here) in a different setting (i.e., non VA) that was not a fit for me long term.

Just trying to convey to @ThatPsyGuy there is hope. I think PCMHI can be a mixed bag. I agree with the above advice in any setting and hope it ends up a good experience.
 
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Yikes. ☹️ I don't doubt you had a different experience. Just sharing mine. I had a similar experience (at least based on your advice here) in a different setting that was not a fit for me long term.

Just trying to convey to @ThatPsyGuy there is hope. I think PCMHI can be a mixed bag. I agree with the above advice in any setting and hope it ends up a good experience.

Lots of different experiences in training, obviously. I had a great time in the VA as a trainee (intern/postdoc) and wouldn't change that that part of my career arc for anything.
 
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Lots of different experiences in training, obviously. I had a great time in the VA as a trainee (intern/postdoc) and wouldn't change that that part of my career arc for anything.
This was my experience as well. It was really a cushy gig, and I learned a TON.
 
As they say, if you know one VA, you know one VA. But of all the different training environments, I would say VA is near the top from a systems perspective in terms of the value/importance they place on training (it's one of VA's core objectives), the supports and protections they require for trainees, and the support (from a national and peer-to-peer level) they try to provide to training staff. They also tend to offer decent pay, relatively speaking; at least until you start looking at BoP and some military positions.

All that being said, one "bad apple" can substantially impact and damage a training program, VA or otherwise. VA has processes for addressing this, but no system is perfect.
 
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I had a number of VA training experiences in my career. In general, the training atmosphere was a good one. That said, you can run into the occasional malignant personality who is very difficult. If you know the supervisor or they are recommended by other students, go for it.
 
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I mean, there are always exceptions. One supervisor at my internship site was so abusive they were eventually pulled from supervision (while I was on the rotation, hilariously enough). Overall I loved my training experience, but if that supervisor hadn't gotten pulled it would have been a very unpleasant rotation. It did help that, because they had a reputation, I had a lot of other staff--former trainees who had been supervised by this person--reaching out to me and offering support.
 
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I mean, there are always exceptions. One supervisor at my internship site was so abusive they were eventually pulled from supervision (while I was on the rotation, hilariously enough). Overall I loved my training experience, but if that supervisor hadn't gotten pulled it would have been a very unpleasant rotation. It did help that, because they had a reputation, I had a lot of other staff--former trainees who had been supervised by this person--reaching out to me and offering support.
True. I had a VA neuropsych rotation supervisor that was subsequently pulled the following year based on our collective feedback.

It was weird, cause personally, she was nice and all I guess. She was a bit odd and a bit of a workaholic (e.g., criticizing other staff who left at 4:30 and I once saw her there writing reports on a day she took off) and weirdly seemed to blame interns (or at least take it out on us) when patients no showed. Which was like half the time. And she certainly wasn't a gifted teacher or mentor of any kind.

I also remember loathing the rotation because the cases were so Groundhog Dayish it was unbelievable to me. Same recs for almost everybody at the end, super high rate of SVT failure. Never thought we made so much as a dent in improving their subsequent care despite all the work we did. Maybe with some of the dementia cases, but even then they were quite advanced by the time we saw them and not sure it changed much in the end. I have no clue how that particular position could have been fulfilling for her as it existed when I was there that year.
 
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