VA vs. Private Sector Hospitals

[Psych917]

I am wondering if folks could generally compare the career experiences of psychologists at VA hospitals versus private sector hospitals (wages, benefits, case load, mobility). I am towards the end of my doctoral training (internship in the fall) and plan to pursue a career in an hospital setting. Any insight will be much appreciated and helpful as I decided on rankings for the match!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

It's a big fat "depends." what is your ultimate career goal?

Pay scale and benefits for VA psychologist positions are fixed, you can look these up publicly.

 

[Psych917]

Ultimate career goal is to be an outpatient psychologist in a hospital. I am aware of the pay scale and benefits for VA psychologists but it's hard to find data for private sector hospitals, making comparison difficult. Why might one choose one path over the other? I get the sense that the case load is smaller at VAs and involvement in training is more common. Essentially, I guess I am asking why someone would choose a private sector position over the VA?

 

[erg923]

Ultimate career goal is to be an outpatient psychologist in a hospital. I am aware of the pay scale and benefits for VA psychologists but it's hard to find data for private sector hospitals, making comparison difficult. Why might one choose one path over the other? I get the sense that the case load is smaller at VAs and involvement in training is more common. Essentially, I guess I am asking why someone would choose a private sector position over the VA?

Are you defining "private sector" as any healthcare system outside VA and DOD?

Obviously, there could be dozens of reasons, all very personalized. Pay, opp for tenure, opps for research, schedule flexibility (often not found in the VA), population/disorder of interest, etc.

 

[Anxiety]

I am in the same boat. I am interviewing at 7 VA's and 8 CMH/inpatient hospitals and would like more info before I rank. My career goal is to work at the VA but so far I feel like the non-VA sites I've interviewed at are a better fit. I feel like at this point, my future career can be in anything, I want to explore my options.

What are my chances of getting employment at a VA if I did an APA-accredited non-VA internship? And like the OP, would a career in the VA or a hospital be better? I am married with a child so flexibility and benefits are important as well.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[erg923]

I am in the same boat. I am interviewing at 7 VA's and 8 CMH/inpatient hospitals and would like more info before I rank. My career goal is to work at the VA but so far I feel like the non-VA sites I've interviewed at are a better fit. I feel like at this point, my future career can be in anything, I want to explore my options.

What are my chances of getting employment at a VA if I did an APA-accredited non-VA internship? And like the OP, would a career in the VA or a hospital be better? I am married with a child so flexibility and benefits are important as well.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Well, VA hours are often not very flexible. 8-430 or 730-4 is what you will find unless you are working an inpatient position. There is ample leave time, however, especially after 3 hears of service. Obviously, no one is going to be able to tell you "the chances" of being hired for any one position/job. There are way to many variables to account for there. Similarly, no one is going to be able to tell you which is setting is "better."

 

[AcronymAllergy]

erg has covered many of the major points. Pay outside the VA system can be more flexible, as can negotiating things such as relocation costs, hiring bonuses, the ability to buy out clinical time with grant funding, etc. Conversely, VA (while having its own administrative hurdles) has less concern about things like billing. There's always a push for more productivity, but it's probably a different level of pressure vs. academic medicine.

The best way of increasing the odds of landing a VA gig are similar to those for grad school and internship: be geographically flexible and willing to take a job in a less-"desirable" region. The VA is almost always hiring psychologists somewhere, it's just a bit of a crapshoot as to whether that somewhere is near you.

 

[deleted343839]

Ultimate career goal is to be an outpatient psychologist in a hospital.

Can you be more specific about the kind of work you want to do? Do you want to work in a psychiatric unit or with general medical patients? When you say "outpatient" do you mean having a clinic or doing things like IOPs/PHPs? Do you want to do any teaching or research? Which is "better" boils down to hard-to-predict factors others have already mentioned like salary, benefits, academic affiliation, patient population, position structure, etc.

Another factor to consider is how you would fit into the system. Private healthcare organizations differ a lot in how they use psychologists. In general, the VA places many psychologists in direct care roles (eg, as providers of psychotherapy), whereas hospitals often favor nurses or social workers for similar roles. Any given VA hospital will have multiple psychologists whose roles are relatively established, whereas at a private hospital, especially a smaller facility, you might be the only psychologist or one of a small few. Your colleagues may not know much about what a psychologist is or is capable of doing. In short, psychologists are well integrated throughout the VA system, whereas they are "square pegs" in many private healthcare organizations (this is changing, but slowly).

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am wondering if folks could generally compare the career experiences of psychologists at VA hospitals versus private sector hospitals (wages, benefits, case load, mobility). I am towards the end of my doctoral training (internship in the fall) and plan to pursue a career in an hospital setting. Any insight will be much appreciated and helpful as I decided on rankings for the match!

I work at a private hospital in an outpatient clinic in a very rural location. We don't use social workers for treatment and they actually don't have full privileges; whereas, I have privileges to the extent of my license. I also am on call one week a month to cover the ED and rest of hospital for any psych consults. If they need medication or admitting, then the hospitalitist on call will handle that aspect based on our recommendations. I don't know how much my position generalizes to other hospitals in other locations. Compensation is superior to a VA setting, but is dependent on production so I definitely work harder than I would at a VA and there is no real training environment as there is in the VA. Also, don't have to deal with the VA system, just regular corporate suit types as opposed to govt suit types so that's a little bit of a plus.

 

[Psych917]

I work at a private hospital in an outpatient clinic in a very rural location. We don't use social workers for treatment and they actually don't have full privileges; whereas, I have privileges to the extent of my license. I also am on call one week a month to cover the ED and rest of hospital for any psych consults. If they need medication or admitting, then the hospitality on call will handle that aspect based on our recommendations. I don't know how much my position generalizes to other hospitals in other locations. Compensation is superior to a VA setting, but is dependent on production so I definitely work harder than I would at a VA and there is no real training environment as there is in the VA. Also, don't have to deal with the VA system, just regular corporate suit types as opposed to govt suit types so that's a little bit of a plus.

Thanks, very helpful

 

[Psych917]

Can you be more specific about the kind of work you want to do? Do you want to work in a psychiatric unit or with general medical patients? When you say "outpatient" do you mean having a clinic or doing things like IOPs/PHPs? Do you want to do any teaching or research? Which is "better" boils down to hard-to-predict factors others have already mentioned like salary, benefits, academic affiliation, patient population, position structure, etc.

Another factor to consider is how you would fit into the system. Private healthcare organizations differ a lot in how they use psychologists. In general, the VA places many psychologists in direct care roles (eg, as providers of psychotherapy), whereas hospitals often favor nurses or social workers for similar roles. Any given VA hospital will have multiple psychologists whose roles are relatively established, whereas at a private hospital, especially a smaller facility, you might be the only psychologist or one of a small few. Your colleagues may not know much about what a psychologist is or is capable of doing. In short, psychologists are well integrated throughout the VA system, whereas they are "square pegs" in many private healthcare organizations (this is changing, but slowly).

Well to be honest, I don't know. While we often learn about how to do the work in grad school, what that work fully entails remains a mystery. I have a breadth experience so I could see myself in a variety of settings post grad, that's why I am trying to collect more data on what it is like to be an employee at a medical setting (in the broadest sense) as a psychologist. Thanks for your response and if you have more insight on the pros and cons of different kinds of psychologist gigs in hospitals, I'd love to hear.

 

[researchgirl]

There is ample leave time, however, especially after 3 hears of service.

unless you are a female of childbearing age that would like 12 weeks of paid maternity leave

 

[AcronymAllergy]

unless you are a female of childbearing age that would like 12 weeks of paid maternity leave

True. Although, they do at least allow for leave donation in some circumstances. Can't recall if I've ever seen it for childbirth, but it seems to me like something that might qualify. Still not ideal, but I suppose it's better than nothing.

 

[WisNeuro]

True. Although, they do at least allow for leave donation in some circumstances. Can't recall if I've ever seen it for childbirth, but it seems to me like something that might qualify. Still not ideal, but I suppose it's better than nothing.

Never seen it used that way. The OPM factsheet says it must be a "medical emergency" so I'd actually be surprised if it'd qualify. The few people I've known have either burned a ton of leave, or done FMLA.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Never seen it used that way. The OPM factsheet says it must be a "medical emergency" so I'd actually be surprised if it'd qualify. The few people I've known have either burned a ton of leave, or done FMLA.

Ah, bummer.

 

[PsychPhDone]

True. Although, they do at least allow for leave donation in some circumstances. Can't recall if I've ever seen it for childbirth, but it seems to me like something that might qualify. Still not ideal, but I suppose it's better than nothing.

I've seen people request leave donations for this. Not sure if they received any.