Vaccine Fear-mongering

[metallica81788]

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For what it's worth, I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccinated.

Just explaining that people should have a choice.

I believe in vaccines. I also believe in people choosing whether they want it or not. I won't go in any further detail. I'm out.

 

[7starmantis]

Chances of you dying if you were dropped 30,000 feet from an airplane is higher than if you were dropped half a foot from some stairs, but there is no data to support that statement, so it's obviously a spurious claim, right?

Dear god, seriously? You might consider just stop posting. No data to support that? You have got to be kidding me!

Dood, just stop man, just stop.

 

[Duluth]

For what it's worth, I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccinated.

Just explaining that people should have a choice.

The general public yes, health care providers, no.

We choose to have a health care occupation. Our patients are there, often not by a choice. You can choose to not get the seasonal influenza vaccination, but that choice kills. Unvaccinated HCP's kill.

 

[Sammich117]

The general public yes, health care providers, no.

We choose to have a health care occupation. Our patients are there, often not by a choice. You can choose to not get the seasonal influenza vaccination, but that choice kills. Unvaccinated HCP's kill.

I was more arguing in the sense of the general public. I can see why HCP's are required to get them. For H1N1, I see why some are hesitant, though. For numerous reasons

 

[7starmantis]

The general public yes, health care providers, no.

We choose to have a health care occupation. Our patients are there, often not by a choice. You can choose to not get the seasonal influenza vaccination, but that choice kills. Unvaccinated HCP's kill.

Misinformation abounds. You have any proof that not getting vaccinated kills people? Seriously?

 

[scotsdoc54]

I've gotten both my flu vaccine and my H1N1 vaccine. If I catch the autism or Guillen-Barre, I'll let you guys know.


On a side note, I remember reading a study in my microbiology course that showed that populations who regularly received the flu vaccine not only showed reduced mortality due to influenza, but also reduced overall mortality. The authors brought up the idea that maybe the vaccine itself wasn't doing much to prevent influenza deaths, but instead that there was a significant selection bias. They postulated that individuals who were more likely to receive regular flu shots were also those individuals who ate healthier, exercised, didn't participate in risky activities, etc (hence the lower overall mortality). I don't know if I really buy it, but it was interesting nonetheless. I'll try to find that paper...

 

[dingyibvs]

Dear god, seriously? You might consider just stop posting. No data to support that? You have got to be kidding me!

Dood, just stop man, just stop.

Show me the data on humans dropped 30,000 feet from air. How about humans dropped onto the surface of Jupiter?

Are you really debating the fact that you're more likely to catch a virus if you're not vaccinated against it? Or are you just being argumentative?

 

[GoSpursGo]

OK guys, let's take a deep breath here. It's always possible to respectfully disagree about something without stooping to the point of silly insults and, of course, everyone's favorite: "You'll make a terrible doctor" (see my sig if you want to see where that wonderful statement ranks in the hierarchy of fun things to do on SDN).

Let's try and keep this thread civil, please.

 

[dingyibvs]

Misinformation abounds. You have any proof that not getting vaccinated kills people? Seriously?

So the reduction of deaths by polio had nothing to do with the polio vaccine?

 

[sassilysweet]

The general public yes, health care providers, no.

We choose to have a health care occupation. Our patients are there, often not by a choice. You can choose to not get the seasonal influenza vaccination, but that choice kills. Unvaccinated HCP's kill.

Everyone knows the symptoms of the flu, ESPECIALLY HCPs. Are you saying they are intentionally going to breathe and cough on patients? Or that they are somehow typhoid Marys of the swine flu?

I think there is a greater risk of someone getting the intranasal vaccine, assuming they are immune, and ignoring symptoms and thereby spreading the flu.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

a lot of mouthbreathing in this thread too.

 

[willen101383]

The general public yes, health care providers, no.

We choose to have a health care occupation. Our patients are there, often not by a choice. You can choose to not get the seasonal influenza vaccination, but that choice kills. Unvaccinated HCP's kill.

I agree to a degree. I dont think HCPs should be forced to get vaccinated. I really dont. I think an effective education program regarding the benefits of vaccination is a great idea. My facility actually is doing something fairly different. They are actually paying for you to stay home for the duration of your flulike illness and up to 48 hours after symptom resolution...assuming your have appropriate documentation. I think it is a great idea. Regarding getting employees vaccinated... our infection control practitioner personally visits each staff member (with doses on her of course) and asks them to be vaccinated...and if they refuse they have to fill out a pain in the ass questionnaire about your decision. AKA you dont need to do anything...but you get a hard selling ICP in your face.....and need to fill out a PITA questionnaire.

 

[7starmantis]

Show me the data on humans dropped 30,000 feet from air. How about humans dropped onto the surface of Jupiter?

Are you really debating the fact that you're more likely to catch a virus if you're not vaccinated against it? Or are you just being argumentative?

1.) Look up info on human injury from falls of various heights, apply physics, read case studies. I haven't the time or inclination to provide you much more. Thats not really the issue though, your arguing that data isn't required when things are "obvious". Who should be the authority on obvious? Who could be Captain Obvious for us? Whose idea of obvious do we respect exactly? I mean, your attacking the base of the scientific method and evidence based medicine all in one. I'm not trying to insult you, but lets stick to the point of the thread.

2.) Wait, now we are talking about an individual catching a virus if not vaccinated? Honest discussion needs to remain on the same subject. We were discussing HCW's killing people because of their choice not to be vaccinated. Thats entirely different, not sure if that was intentional or not, but thats a huge strawman. We should have a strawman smiley on here.

3.) Someone already posted this article which states:

Vaccination of health care workers (HCWs) is recommended as a strategy for preventing influenza in elderly patients in long-term care. However, there have been no controlled studies to show whether this approach is effective.

Thats even talking about the elderly (more susceptible to the flu).

So the reduction of deaths by polio had nothing to do with the polio vaccine?

See #2 above. We aren't discussing individuals getting vaccinated but killing others by not being vaccinated. Try to keep up.

 

[wanderer]

3.) Someone already posted this article which states:

Vaccination of health care workers (HCWs) is recommended as a strategy for preventing influenza in elderly patients in long-term care. However, there have been no controlled studies to show whether this approach is effective. During the winter of 1994-1995, 1059 patients in 12 geriatric medical long-term-care sites, randomized for vaccination of HCWs, were studied. In hospitals where HCWs were offered vaccination, 653 (61%) of 1078 were vaccinated. Vaccination of HCWs was associated with reductions in total patient mortality from 17% to 10% (odds ratio [OR], 0.56; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.40-0.80) and in influenza-like illness (OR, 0.57; 95% CI, 0.34-0.94). Vaccination of patients was not associated with significant effects on mortality (OR, 1.15; 95% CI, 0.81-1.64). Results of this study support recommendations for vaccination against influenza of HCWs in long-term geriatric care. Vaccination of frail elderly long-term-care patients may not give clinically worthwhile benefits.

Thats even talking about the elderly (more susceptible to the flu).

Fixed.

 

[Hoody]

Hence why I said in the intranasal version...

whoops. missed that part. and thank gosh, I was like, awww man, I know Sammich is smarter than that... 😉

 

[Sammich117]

whoops. missed that part. and thank gosh, I was like, awww man, I know Sammich is smarter than that... 😉

😀

This thread turned really hostile. I didn't think it would be such a big deal to say people should have a choice

 

[7starmantis]

😀

This thread turned really hostile. I didn't think it would be such a big deal to say people should have a choice

Yeah, sorry guys. Been a long hard day for me and nothing gets me going more than the spread of misinformation. I get as crazy about people saying things like non vaccinated HCW's are killing patients as I do about Jenny McCarthy saying vaccinations cause autism.

Again, I apologize if I've offended anyone in my venting of my day 🙂

I do feel much better btw lol

 

[strummin]

No they aren't regular people. They're brothers and sisters of Superman with super duper powers and ability to make vaccines.

Okay, so I didn't word my statement properly. What I was trying to say is that I'm sure the scientists who work on vaccines aren't stupid and that they have probably considered many things when developing the vaccine - and probably also have a much greater breadth of knowledge and expertise in the field than most of us.

That doesn't mean that they're infallible and should always be trusted or anything like that, but... let's try not to be so cynical or paranoid sometimes? In general, I trust scientists much more than those celebrities who go on TV shows claiming that vaccinations cause autism or some other claim for which there is absolutely no scientific basis.

 

[7starmantis]

Fixed.

Your right, but recommendation and efficacy aren't synonymous.

 

[BBender716]

So I heard that vaccines were invented by the government so that people would inadvertently volunteer to have tracking devices injected into them so that the government can track our every movement and prevent terrorism.

Oh and I have all the data you guys are looking for but it says not to duplicate so you'll have to come over to see it.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

So I heard that vaccines were invented by the government so that people would inadvertently volunteer to have tracking devices injected into them so that the government can track our every movement and prevent terrorism.

Oh and I have all the data you guys are looking for but it says not to duplicate so you'll have to come over to see it.

 

[BBender716]

The blonde-haired-guy-who-used-to-live-in-Utah man with the plan.

 

[JJMrK]

If you want the vaccine, get it. If you don't, don't.

 

[7starmantis]

The polygamist with the plan.

Wow. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, I can't really stand him much myself but attacking someone on the basis of their religion or faith is pretty low.

 

[dingyibvs]

1.) Look up info on human injury from falls of various heights, apply physics, read case studies. I haven't the time or inclination to provide you much more. Thats not really the issue though, your arguing that data isn't required when things are "obvious". Who should be the authority on obvious? Who could be Captain Obvious for us? Whose idea of obvious do we respect exactly? I mean, your attacking the base of the scientific method and evidence based medicine all in one. I'm not trying to insult you, but lets stick to the point of the thread.

2.) Wait, now we are talking about an individual catching a virus if not vaccinated? Honest discussion needs to remain on the same subject. We were discussing HCW's killing people because of their choice not to be vaccinated. Thats entirely different, not sure if that was intentional or not, but thats a huge strawman. We should have a strawman smiley on here.

3.) Someone already posted this article which states:

Thats even talking about the elderly (more susceptible to the flu).




See #2 above. We aren't discussing individuals getting vaccinated but killing others by not being vaccinated. Try to keep up.

1) Who cares about various heights? Has there ever been a controlled study with humans dropped from 30,000 feet? Has anybody tried dropping someone off at Jupiter? But of course, you don't need a study to show that it's certain death, you just need to apply physics and extrapolate from that. So why is it hard to draw correlation between the fact that a person is more likely to contract a disease by refusing vaccination and the fact that a person infected with a disease is more likely to spread it?

2) Again, an individual infected with an infectious disease is more likely to spread it, and an unvaccinated individual is more likely to catch the disease. So yes, a person who does not get vaccinated is more likely to spread the disease. But of course, there hasn't been a controlled study conducted on this topic yet, so it's just as implausible to you as dropping a person off at Jupiter means certain death, is it?

 

[BBender716]

Wow. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, I can't really stand him much myself but attacking someone on the basis of their religion or faith is pretty low.

Totally kidding. Sorry for the offense generated.

 

[7starmantis]

1) Who cares about various heights?

You said 30,000 feet vs 1/12 feet over stairs. Various heights. Really not the point of this thread, seriously.

2) Again, an individual infected with an infectious disease is more likely to spread it, and an unvaccinated individual is more likely to catch the disease. So yes, a person who does not get vaccinated is more likely to spread the disease. But of course, there hasn't been a controlled study conducted on this topic yet, so it's just as implausible to you as dropping a person off at Jupiter means certain death, is it?

Thats a huge stretch. Just simply not true. Plausible and currently killing patients are very far from each other.
By your logic people should refuse the vaccine because its "plausible" they will get guillain barre.

 

[7starmantis]

Totally kidding. Sorry for the offense generated.

No offense. Just surprised thats all. No worries.

 

[Luun]

WOW! It's weird that I just happened to watch this video earlier today.

This video isn't about H1N1, but it's interesting nonetheless...

[YOUTUBE]uR5p_bD3uLc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Duluth]

Misinformation abounds. You have any proof that not getting vaccinated kills people? Seriously?

The Carman study showed that vaccination of health care workers in a hospital setting decreases mortality rates (22% mortality unvacinated, 12% vacinated). Pure and simple. The Potter shows the same for LTC facilities (17% non vacinated, 10% vaccinated). Not getting your vaccinations is KILLING. In Carmen only half of the health care providers were vaccinated and there was a dramatic drop. This means we can still accept a minority who have a religious objection or think that immunizations are some crazy government conspiracy to put us in FEMA death camps. We can still get herd immunity. But I'm sure you are well versed on these study's as a well read, informed, premed.

The CDC does a much better job at arguing this point. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr55e209a1.htm

If I put the evidence in your hands and you chose to ignore it, that's your fault, not mine. I provide evidence based care.


To willen101383: That is a great policy, however it is not as safe as immunization. Asymptomatic and presymptomatic spread of influenza is not uncommon.

 

[BBender716]

The Carman study showed that vaccination of health care workers in a hospital setting decreases mortality rates (22% mortality unvacinated, 12% vacinated). Pure and simple. The Potter shows the same for LTC facilities (17% non vacinated, 10% vaccinated). Not getting your vaccinations is KILLING. In Carmen only half of the health care providers were vaccinated and there was a dramatic drop. This means we can still accept a minority who have a religious objection or think that immunizations are some crazy government conspiracy to put us in FEMA death camps. We can still get herd immunity. But I'm sure you are well versed on these study's as a well read, informed, premed.

The CDC does a much better job at arguing this point. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr55e209a1.htm

If I put the evidence in your hands and you chose to ignore it, that's your fault, not mine. I provide evidence based care.


To willen101383: That is a great policy, however it is not as safe as immunization. Asymptomatic and presymptomatic spread of influenza is not uncommon.

I'm pretty sure that's a WoW power-up 😀 😉

 

[bannie22]

I don't think individual perspective needs to be respected when that perspective can end up (inadvertently) harming others.

oh great. go ahead and ban alcohol, because its one of the greatest causes of car accidents, which kills much more than the flu. work on that, come back and lets talk.🙄

 

[bannie22]

Choice. People have a choice.

 

[willen101383]

To willen101383: That is a great policy, however it is not as safe as immunization. Asymptomatic and presymptomatic spread of influenza is not uncommon.


You are 100% correct. That is where the problem lies......that first 24 hours give or take..while you are spewing viral particles...and arent sick. We all know that "$hit I think I might be sick...tomorrow" feeling you get a day or so out...and I know I wouldnt be calling out sick for that.
But I think the policy we have in place at work is pretty good. Most people seem complient. I dont mean to sound racist or elitist or anything..but in my experience the "lower rungs" (ancil. staff types) of the healthcare system are a huge part of the problem. Many of them simply dont have the knowledge of what they are dealing with....and will buy into that "anti vaccine hype," or are too lazy/dont care to get the vaccine. But none of that gets rid of the fact that they are in the patients room....taking out their trash.....bringing up their food trays...and as a previous poster put it, you dont have to intentionally be breating/coughing right in a patients face.
My facility is quite progressive when it comes to combatting nosocomial infection. Every patient gets screened for MRSA on admission. If they are positive...or at any point during their stay have positive cultures they are isolated. Everyone gowns and gloves up before entering the room, and trashes them before they leave.....everyone except a significant portion of the aformentioned anciliary staff.

I still think vaccines should be a personal choice...But as I think you mentioned above....it was OUR/YOUR choice to pursue a career in healthcare. You might think a shot is stupid, or a waste, or (insert excuse here) but you should have your patients best interests in mind. A few years ago right after college I worked in a hospital. They came up with this cheesy business practice called the mother standard. That is...treat every patient like you would wish to see your mother treated. Cheesy as it may be...it has really stuck with me for some reason.

 

[7starmantis]

The Carman study showed that vaccination of health care workers in a hospital setting decreases mortality rates (22% mortality unvacinated, 12% vacinated). Pure and simple. The Potter shows the same for LTC facilities (17% non vacinated, 10% vaccinated). Not getting your vaccinations is KILLING. In Carmen only half of the health care providers were vaccinated and there was a dramatic drop. This means we can still accept a minority who have a religious objection or think that immunizations are some crazy government conspiracy to put us in FEMA death camps. We can still get herd immunity. But I'm sure you are well versed on these study's as a well read, informed, premed.

The CDC does a much better job at arguing this point. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr55e209a1.htm

If I put the evidence in your hands and you chose to ignore it, that's your fault, not mine. I provide evidence based care.

We must be reading different studies. The study in question refers to elderly in LTC facilities. You can't just imply those findings are equivalent to all other settings, not to mention the study itself says there have not been controlled studies on the issue. No one is saying its not a wise choice for HCW to be vaccinated, just that its their choice. If its ok for "religious" reasons why is it not for other reasons?

The CDC article touches on the true heart of the issue here:

Trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine prevents influenza illness among approximately 70%--90% of healthy adults aged <65 years when the vaccine and circulating viruses are antigenically similar (17,21--23). The effectiveness of inactivated influenza vaccine in preventing influenza illness might be lower when vaccine and circulating viruses are not well matched...

Bottom line is there are areas where higher precautions are needed than others but the choice is the individuals. You agree as you said yourself, "for religious reasons or conspiracy theorists" its ok to accept non vaccination. So why worry about the "minority" who choose not to be vaccinated?

 

[Duluth]

We must be reading different studies. The study in question refers to elderly in LTC facilities. You can't just imply those findings are equivalent to all other settings, not to mention the study itself says there have not been controlled studies on the issue. No one is saying its not a wise choice for HCW to be vaccinated, just that its their choice. If its ok for "religious" reasons why is it not for other reasons?

What major difference in response to nosocomial influenza can we expect in a LTC pt and an immuno compromised pt? NICU? ICU? Peds? All are going to have major set backs even if they do survive.

It is okay for some to decline because we have statistical evidence that vaccinating only about half of health care providers shows a significant decrease in mortality. We can allow for a minority to decline due to religious objections and what not and still provide a blanket of protection to patients.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

I won't be getting it. I'll let everyone getting it be the guinea pigs in this experiment. Then, maybe, I'll get it in a year or so if I don't see them growing a third arm or dropping dead. I was told by the hospital that I'm volunteering at that I would have to wear a mask. I said, "Ok."

 

[Parts Unknown]

It's hard for me not to respond emotionally to this (and I hate that, btw). For example, a girl I know, an RN, answered on her little facebook poll that "no," she would not get the H1N1 vaccine. Um, hello?! You work in health care and refuse to get the vaccine because "it hasn't been tested." Oy vey. Speechless.

Don't worry, this is good news. It's just natural selection operating before your very eyes.

As for health care workers who refuse the vaccine, fine. Just place them on unpaid leave until the pandemic subsides. Usually only takes a couple of years.

 

[Old Grunt]

Few things piss me off more than people who spread misinformation that harms the public health.

What is the appropriate response to those who insist on spreading fear about the H1N1 or seasonal flu vaccines despite the lack of evidence supporting their claims?

It's hard for me not to respond emotionally to this (and I hate that, btw). For example, a girl I know, an RN, answered on her little facebook poll that "no," she would not get the H1N1 vaccine. Um, hello?! You work in health care and refuse to get the vaccine because "it hasn't been tested." Oy vey. Speechless.

I hate the actual misinformation (i.e. the cheerleader that claimed she got ataxia from it or it's a big pharm cash cow conspiracy or H1N1 is no worse than the seasonal flu), however people that choose not to get the vaccine are utilizing their right to autonomy as a patient to make their own decisions. You'll deal with them as patients too. I had a guy tell me that he never took any vaccines because he "thought they were a government conspiracy to make people vote Democrat". He was serious too.

I disagree with it and think it's irresponsible, but it's not misinformation to say "I don't want to take it, because I don't think it's been properly tested".

People have that right. The institution she works at also has the right to suspend her from work if she refuses to comply due to her being a risk factor for spreading the flu.

Just a thought. For me personally, I was chomping at the bit to get my H1N1 Vax and got it two days ago when they were first made available at our institution.

 

[redsquareblack]

Choice. People have a choice.

If you honestly think that repealing prohibition had anything to do with respecting free choice, then you're dreaming.

 

[Old Grunt]

Oh God. I can't believe a pre-med said that. Wow. You know nothing about vaccines, do you? These people who develop vaccines aren't regular people - they're top scientists who have had years and years of experience. Even with attenuated vaccines, the chances of somebody actually developing a disease is EXTREMELY LOW - unless they're immunocompromised or have some other complications, in which they case they shouldn't have been vaccinated in the first place.

The GBS risk remains the same regardless. I firmly believe in vaccines and get them no matter what, but it's false to claim there is no risk with any vaccine and no one disputes that GBS is linked to vaccines which is why the government maintains a slush fund for damages:

www.hrsa.gov/countermeasurescomp/default.htm

Of course GBS is most commonly caused by infection, so it's obviously not just a vaccine thing.

Still, a lot of the comments on here smack of snobbery, and that attitude is not going to serve you well when you start dealing with patients in clinic and ask them if they want a flu or pnuemococcal vax. It's your job to explain the facts, not to coerce people.

Just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Old Grunt]

WOW! It's weird that I just happened to watch this video earlier today.

This video isn't about H1N1, but it's interesting nonetheless...

[YOUTUBE]uR5p_bD3uLc[/YOUTUBE]

It's BS. Not to throw out diagnosis', but if I were a betting man (and I am) and this woman was evaluated by a team of Doctors, I'd put my money on "coversion disorder".

The only person who has claimed this had anything to do with the flu vaccination is the woman and the media outlets that have shamelessly run with the story without doing any research.

 

[Parts Unknown]

The influenza virus consists of 8 RNA molecules, and so it is important that the vaccine targets all molecules.

I'm not even sure what this means. Eight molecules that encode eleven genes, and antibodies only need to be raised against one or two of them to confer immunity.

The virus is so proficient at genetic reassortment that antigenic drift most likely will render the vaccine useless.

Drift does not automatically render vaccines useless. I'll take the threat of antigenic drift over the reality of antigenic shift, which is what we are dealing with in a pandemic H5N1 virus spreading through an immunologically naive population.

 

[redsquareblack]

It's BS. Not to throw out diagnosis', but if I were a betting man (and I am) and this woman was evaluated by a team of Doctors, I'd put my money on "coversion disorder".

The only person who has claimed this had anything to do with the flu vaccination is the woman and the media outlets that have shamelessly run with the story without doing any research.

Oh, god. I didn't realize it was that video again. My company blocks YouTube, so I couldn't see it.

Is this the cheerleader diagnosed with "dystonia" following flu vaccine? She doesn't have Sx consistent with dystonia, and her problems are most likely not physiological in origin, and lastly, no-one besides her and the breathless media have said her Sx & the vaccine are related.

 

[wanderer]

You are 100% correct. That is where the problem lies......that first 24 hours give or take..while you are spewing viral particles...and arent sick. We all know that "$hit I think I might be sick...tomorrow" feeling you get a day or so out...and I know I wouldnt be calling out sick for that.
But I think the policy we have in place at work is pretty good. Most people seem complient. I dont mean to sound racist or elitist or anything..but in my experience the "lower rungs" (ancil. staff types) of the healthcare system are a huge part of the problem. Many of them simply dont have the knowledge of what they are dealing with....and will buy into that "anti vaccine hype," or are too lazy/dont care to get the vaccine. But none of that gets rid of the fact that they are in the patients room....taking out their trash.....bringing up their food trays...and as a previous poster put it, you dont have to intentionally be breating/coughing right in a patients face.

👍 link

I still think vaccines should be a personal choice...But as I think you mentioned above....it was OUR/YOUR choice to pursue a career in healthcare. You might think a shot is stupid, or a waste, or (insert excuse here) but you should have your patients best interests in mind. A few years ago right after college I worked in a hospital. They came up with this cheesy business practice called the mother standard. That is...treat every patient like you would wish to see your mother treated. Cheesy as it may be...it has really stuck with me for some reason.

Pretty much what I feel.

oh great. go ahead and ban alcohol, because its one of the greatest causes of car accidents, which kills much more than the flu. work on that, come back and lets talk.🙄

That's why there are laws against drunk driving. I have no problem with people who drink and don't drive just as I have no problem with people who refuse to get vaccination under all circumstances and are not HCWs.

 

[redsquareblack]

It's BS. Not to throw out diagnosis', but if I were a betting man (and I am) and this woman was evaluated by a team of Doctors, I'd put my money on "coversion disorder".

The only person who has claimed this had anything to do with the flu vaccination is the woman and the media outlets that have shamelessly run with the story without doing any research.

Oh, by the way, apparently Desiree Jennings' VAERS report has been unearthed. Not surprisingly, the admitting neurologist "felt that there was a strong psychogenic component to the symptomology, and made a final diagnosis of weakness."

Additionally, once she got hooked up with a well-known woo-peddler Rashid Buttar, he "detoxed" her of "mercury", and she's apparently doing better. Oy.

 

[Old Grunt]

Oh, god. I didn't realize it was that video again. My company blocks YouTube, so I couldn't see it.

Is this the cheerleader diagnosed with "dystonia" following flu vaccine? She doesn't have Sx consistent with dystonia, and her problems are most likely not physiological in origin, and lastly, no-one besides her and the breathless media have said her Sx & the vaccine are related.

That's the one.

 

[Old Grunt]

Oh, by the way, apparently Desiree Jennings' VAERS report has been unearthed. Not surprisingly, the admitting neurologist "felt that there was a strong psychogenic component to the symptomology, and made a final diagnosis of weakness."

Additionally, once she got hooked up with a well-known woo-peddler Rashid Buttar, he "detoxed" her of "mercury", and she's apparently doing better. Oy.

Yeah, that was my understanding of the matter too. Since the nervous system and immunology is infinitely complicated, no one can say definitively that there wasn't a pathophysiology to this, but the overwhelming evidence supports that this was a psychological event. It could be a conversion disorder or simple malingering (wanting to cash in on that government fund).

It would have been nice if the media was fair in their coverage, but science is not nearly as interesting as hyperbolic claims of a woman with absolutely no background in science.

As for the last, if people choose to go to snake oil salesmen, it's their right. It's the right of the "establishment" to point out the complete lack of evidenced based medicine to support their claims.

 

[willen101383]

Guess what. I got my H1N1 vacc about 2 hours ago. My arm is a little sore, but shockingly enough I am still alive. I do not think I am developing autism yet....but I will keep you all posted...if I still possess the psychiatric abilities to post on the internet 😉

 

[redsquareblack]

Guess what. I got my H1N1 vacc about 2 hours ago. My arm is a little sore, but shockingly enough I am still alive. I do not think I am developing autism yet....but I will keep you all posted...if I still possess the psychiatric abilities to post on the internet 😉

If you need to live-blog your inevitable terrible vaccine reaction, lemme know!