Value of DPT Degree

[DesertPT]

#1) Any public sector employee - after 15-20 years depending on the municipality you're entitled to a pension and healthcare for life

#2) Government officials: congressman/senator/mayor

#3) Tenured Professor/Professors in general

#4) Advertising

#5) Wealth Managers

I can keep going.....

I'll just say a few cons that spring to mind, but as others have said this list isn't really worth analyzing:

1.) Boring as hell perhaps? Sit behind a desk all day? Bureaucracy like you can't believe. IDK, depends on the person I suppose.

2.) Probably quite stressful. Have to spend most of your energy convincing other people they should listen to you, rather than accomplishing anything you care about. Probably spend a tremendous amount of time traveling (only a con for some perhaps) and away from family, especially during a campaign season. If you are gunning for a big position, you are probably independently wealthy anyway. If it's a more local thing, you have no way of knowing whether or not your job will be around when the term ends.

3.) Getting solid tenure generally requires 10-15 years post-baccalaureate slave labor. Because of the amount that you will work, pay during this period will range from just a few dollars/hr as a grad student to maybe $18/hr as a post doc, and maybe $30 as an assistant professor if your lucky. Cush senior faculty positions take long work weeks well into your 50's to achieve.

4. & 5.) I honestly don't know much about these, but I imagine many commonly cited career cons could be applied: overworked, underpaid, boring desk job, too much competition for jobs, effects of the worsening economy, etc. etc.

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[TopShelf85]

I'll just say a few cons that spring to mind, but as others have said this list isn't really worth analyzing:

1.) Boring as hell perhaps? Sit behind a desk all day? Bureaucracy like you can't believe. IDK, depends on the person I suppose.

2.) Probably quite stressful. Have to spend most of your energy convincing other people they should listen to you, rather than accomplishing anything you care about. Probably spend a tremendous amount of time traveling (only a con for some perhaps) and away from family, especially during a campaign season. If you are gunning for a big position, you are probably independently wealthy anyway. If it's a more local thing, you have no way of knowing whether or not your job will be around when the term ends.

3.) Getting solid tenure generally requires 10-15 years post-baccalaureate slave labor. Because of the amount that you will work, pay during this period will range from just a few dollars/hr as a grad student to maybe $18/hr as a post doc, and maybe $30 as an assistant professor if your lucky. Cush senior faculty positions take long work weeks well into your 50's to achieve.

4. & 5.) I honestly don't know much about these, but I imagine many commonly cited career cons could be applied: overworked, underpaid, boring desk job, too much competition for jobs, effects of the worsening economy, etc. etc.

I failed to mention Management Consulting where you can be client facing and make a lot of money doing it. It's too bad the competition to get a job in that field is sooooo hard now with 200 people going for 1 spot on average.

#1 - Public sector jobs are a trade-off you get mediocre pay but on the permanent bright side you get a pension with strong health benefits for yourself and family the rest of your life. How is that not worth it? Do PT's get a pension with benefits forever? NO....

#2 - Politicians are overpaid and highly under qualified for their job. They accomplish nothing positive and get paid for making the country worse off than it was prior to taking office. Not a bad gig for them.

#3 - Being a professor pays well and you get very good hours. Not to mention you are on college campus for your job how awesome is that?

#4 - Advertising people will complain pay is crap for a couple years but once you do well on the sales or marketing side you'll be alright. It's a competitive field and a lot of fun.

#5 - Wealth Managers make 2% margin on every account they manage quarterly and charge other misc fees for handling your investment accounts. Boring to follow the markets? Nah it's fun to stay afloat but the due diligence on stock selection and fixed income product can be hard and nerve-wracking when you're performance is evaluated constantly because of all the other firms jockeying for clients. All in all its pretty seldom that wealthy people will part ways with their money manager unless they completely screw up.

 

[HouseDPT]

I failed to mention Management Consulting where you can be client facing and make a lot of money doing it. It's too bad the competition to get a job in that field is sooooo hard now with 200 people going for 1 spot on average.

#1 - Public sector jobs are a trade-off you get mediocre pay but on the permanent bright side you get a pension with strong health benefits for yourself and family the rest of your life. How is that not worth it? Do PT's get a pension with benefits forever? NO....

#2 - Politicians are overpaid and highly under qualified for their job. They accomplish nothing positive and get paid for making the country worse off than it was prior to taking office. Not a bad gig for them.

#3 - Being a professor pays well and you get very good hours. Not to mention you are on college campus for your job how awesome is that?

#4 - Advertising people will complain pay is crap for a couple years but once you do well on the sales or marketing side you'll be alright. It's a competitive field and a lot of fun.

#5 - Wealth Managers make 2% margin on every account they manage quarterly and charge other misc fees for handling your investment accounts. Boring to follow the markets? Nah it's fun to stay afloat but the due diligence on stock selection and fixed income product can be hard and nerve-wracking when you're performance is evaluated constantly because of all the other firms jockeying for clients. All in all its pretty seldom that wealthy people will part ways with their money manager unless they completely screw up.

Seems like your mind's pretty set already, so I question why you're continuing to feed into this "discussion" on the merits of our profession. If physical therapy seems like a sinking ship of a profession, maybe you should consider any of the six occupations you have listed. They all seem quite lucrative and devoid of any negative work or life aspects.

I also find it curious, TopShelf85, that the user coming to bolster your argument is Happydays85. Might want to consider changing your birth year next time.

 

[jblil]

I also find it curious, TopShelf85, that the user coming to bolster your argument is Happydays85. Might want to consider changing your birth year next time.

Good catch, I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.

 

[iseidthat]

Totally random, but just a fyi.

I volunteer at the VA in my city and am around a lot of doctors and medical professionals that don't always get the best pay or respect. One of the guys in my department was explaining to me the move of PTs from getting just a masters to getting an actual "doctor" added to their title.

Basically it was a comparison to chiropractors. You don't need any referrals to see a chiro, but you need one to see a PT. In addition, the mere principle of being able to diagnose and choose whatever to treat would be really liberating for the field- rather than treating wtv the doctor wrote a prescription treatment for.

Idk if it'll really change everything in the near future, but I know it is a definite concern to people I work with and volunteer with. I heard the other day one of the PTs saying that "Pts can adjust and evaluate the same as chiropractors." So if anyone was wondering why we've moved from a Masters to a Doctorate....this is a contributing factor (and one of the hikers in tuition).

 

[DesertPT]

Well at this point I think TopShelf is essentially just trolling. Good luck in whatever your future studies are, if you are even a student, which I am starting to doubt.

 

[TopShelf85]

whatever you say.

 

[Azimuthal]

Totally random, but just a fyi.

I volunteer at the VA in my city and am around a lot of doctors and medical professionals that don't always get the best pay or respect. One of the guys in my department was explaining to me the move of PTs from getting just a masters to getting an actual "doctor" added to their title.

Basically it was a comparison to chiropractors. You don't need any referrals to see a chiro, but you need one to see a PT. In addition, the mere principle of being able to diagnose and choose whatever to treat would be really liberating for the field- rather than treating wtv the doctor wrote a prescription treatment for.

Idk if it'll really change everything in the near future, but I know it is a definite concern to people I work with and volunteer with. I heard the other day one of the PTs saying that "Pts can adjust and evaluate the same as chiropractors." So if anyone was wondering why we've moved from a Masters to a Doctorate....this is a contributing factor (and one of the hikers in tuition).

The move from MPT to DPT is nothing new. Look up the APTA's 2020 vision. Oh, FYI, you don't need a referral to see a PT in most states. Booooommm!!! That was a knowledge bomb.

 

[DPTinUTAH]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

 

[Sheldon]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

There are both similarities as well as differences in our education. Ask most MDs questions related to MSK and they have a very, if at all, superficial knowledge and understanding. The exceptions are PMR, orthos, and maybe family med-sports fellowship docs.The knowledge level a MD/DO student has in relation to the multiple body systems on an micro and physiological level is easily well beyond that of a PT or DPT, but really, we are comparing two DIFFERENT careers. As someone with a DPT, I do not refer to myself as "Dr" nor do I expect other colleagues or patients to do so.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

You know so much...

 

[TopShelf85]

Fiveoboy, you and all the others who believe you become a "doctor" from earning a DPT degree are sadly mistaken. By that logic, If I can pin the tail on a donkey, does that make me a veterinarian? Only a few years ago the DPT didn't even exist! The program was shorter, tuition was significantly cheaper, and the cost of tuition CANNOT be justified by the monetary return of the degree. A DPT should come with a six figure salary! Not a 60k starting threshold. There's a reason why the montra "Justification for Higher Education" exists... Personal Fav was the poster with the 5 gorgeous porches in the garage of a mansion.

 

[DPTinUTAH]

You know so much...

Fiveoboy11,

What are some of your experiences and rationale against the post?

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Fiveoboy, you and all the others who believe you become a "doctor" from earning a DPT degree are sadly mistaken. By that logic, If I can pin the tail on a donkey, does that make me a veterinarian? Only a few years ago the DPT didn't even exist! The program was shorter, tuition was significantly cheaper, and the cost of tuition CANNOT be justified by the monetary return of the degree. A DPT should come with a six figure salary! Not a 60k starting threshold. There's a reason why the montra "Justification for Higher Education" exists... Personal Fav was the poster with the 5 gorgeous porches in the garage of a mansion.

There is no belief. It's the way it is whether you agree deep in your heart or not. What makes you a vet is going to vet school and getting a license. The monetary factor and relative novelty is irrelevant to doctor or non doctor. And 60k starting threshold? Where in the world did you get that from? Certainly not any legitimate source. PT's working hours that approach many physician's (i.e. 60/wk) could easily make 100k.

The FACT is, a DPT is a legitimate, accredited, competitive degree that has developed over 100 years. PT schools didn't just arbitrarily grant doctorates from the get go, and for good reason. Can that be said about many other professions?

 

[DPTinUTAH]

Fiveoboy,

Are you currently a PT? What practice area? I have heard directly of starting job offers around 62k for ortho, 70k for homecare, 60k for neuro. Salaries are trending downward due to hospital organization apprehension from stricter reimbursement policies based on my understanding.

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[Fiveoboy11]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

How would you expect the public to know with so much force against it, is there magic? It takes time for society to embrace change especially in the realm of us healthcare. I think there are patients who are certainly apprehensive about their conditions and want to see a physician. That has nothing to do with physical therapists, at all. If they do it is because there's a legit reason, or there isn't (because they are ignorant). A DPT is not sub par relative to physical therapy relative to other fields.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Fiveoboy,

Are you currently a PT? What practice area? I have heard directly of starting job offers around 62k for ortho, 70k for homecare, 60k for neuro. Salaries are trending downward due to hospital organization apprehension from stricter reimbursement policies based on my understanding.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

You don't understand anything about physical therapy. Are you even a PT student?

 

[TopShelf85]

Fiveoboy, unless you're living under a rock, there is absolutely NOTHING for the public to embrace about the upcoming changes to our healthcare system. It's catastrophic at all levels especially for small businesses and mid-sized businesses. But going back to what you were saying, the vast majority of the public would ALWAYS go to a REAL Doctor before seeking the opinion of a PT. This is especially true for anyone who can afford to pay for the opinion of a real medical expert.

 

[Azimuthal]

Fiveoboy, unless you're living under a rock, there is absolutely NOTHING for the public to embrace about the upcoming changes to our healthcare system. It's catastrophic at all levels especially for small businesses and mid-sized businesses. But going back to what you were saying, the vast majority of the public would ALWAYS go to a REAL Doctor before seeking the opinion of a PT. This is especially true for anyone who can afford to pay for the opinion of a real medical expert.

You read all 20,000 pages of the AHA? I maaaayyy agree that there will be negative changes to the new system, but I'm 100% certain that psychics and fortune tellers don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Azimuthal]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

Maybe in Utah... Okay, so it sounds that you're disgruntled over some thing. Perhaps it's the degree, perhaps it's the profession. Either, or, slip your panties back on for a minute. In CA, NY and NJ (the areas I'm accustomed), many clinic owners make a decent living out of network. They get patients, and not from referrals. So while you go off on your tangents about not educating the public, there are dedicated PT's out there doing it for you. It's not just the APTA's role, it's the profession's role as a whole to educate patients. Also, if you don't want to use your conferred title, don't. No one is telling you to.

 

[Azimuthal]

Fiveoboy,

Are you currently a PT? What practice area? I have heard directly of starting job offers around 62k for ortho, 70k for homecare, 60k for neuro. Salaries are trending downward due to hospital organization apprehension from stricter reimbursement policies based on my understanding.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

Look at jblil's salary bank.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=931151

 

[Azimuthal]

Fiveoboy, unless you're living under a rock, there is absolutely NOTHING for the public to embrace about the upcoming changes to our healthcare system. It's catastrophic at all levels especially for small businesses and mid-sized businesses. But going back to what you were saying, the vast majority of the public would ALWAYS go to a REAL Doctor before seeking the opinion of a PT. This is especially true for anyone who can afford to pay for the opinion of a real medical expert.

Is that why no one is being seen by dentists, podiatrists, DNP's, optometrists, audiologists, etc? They must only be in history books...OR, like how society changes over time, healthcare professionals are starting to work closer together and are more focused on a patient centered collaborative team. Do I have to publish a white paper for all you self imposed healthcare intellects?

Now, I usually stay out of the doctor thing. It's just not important to me, but the ignorance of comparing doctorates is mind blowing. A DPT, makes a physician NOT. We know this. We understand this. We respect this. AND we believe it should be that way. Do some research. A 'doctorates' denotes a terminal degree in a respective discipline. It's not exclusive or owned by any single profession. If something as silly as three letters after your name gets you so flustered to belittle its existence, perhaps working with people with complex disordered may not be your best choice of career fields. I hope you don't need the services of any "non-real" doctors in your or your family's future. If so, don't forget about Dre. He's a doctor.

 

[jblil]

It's just not important to me.

Well said, Azi.

If you (generic "you" here) keep comparing yourself to others, be it in title, salary, number of cars in the garage, etc, you will never be happy.

 

[HouseDPT]

Can I respectfully remind everyone that TopShelf85 is trolling?

He has bounced from the "doctor" thing to the ACA. I'm sure he'll bring up chiropractors next. You've been warned.

 

[ptisfun2]

yes, it is true you may not need a referral to see a PT in most states, HOWEVER, the general public does not know this option exists AND is generally apprehensive to see a PT without seeing a Doctor. The majority of our patients are from an older generation in which the Doctor title was the be all end all and there was not even an ounce of respect given to other allied health professions, some that did not even exist. The APTA did not think it through when making the move to the DPT. They failed to educate the public before making this transition, ALSO, the education we go through does not even get close to the knowledge level needed to be called Dr....so all those people out there who think they should be called 'Dr." with a DPT degree, are misinformed on what the title "Dr." actually means.

The whole move to DPT - good or bad - is a done argument. The train has left the station Time to move on.

I can only speak for my own clinical practice (I do not own the practice, but I was referring to the patients I see), but about 80% of the patients I see have no physician prescription for PT. They come in 'off the street' as it were for consultation about whatever (for the patients I see, it is back and neck pain lately, but work in a general outpatient PT practice....students would call it an orthopedic outpatient practice, but we see lots of radicular pain and I have recently treated someone with COPD and a CVA). But 0% of my patients are completely self-pay; 90% are paid with a combination of self-pay (co-pays) and insurance reimbursement (and then I do 10% pro bono). So there are insurance companies that are reimbursing for direct access to PT; it is a misnomer to say it is not happening. Our clinic's population is less than 10% Medicare, so that limits that issue....we see mostly working age people, but again anyone is welcome. And I do not live in a state known for being progressive, so there is that.
Finally, for full disclosure, I used percents, but I want to make it clear that I work part-time clinically and work full-time as a professor. So I only see patients only 2 nights/week. But another PT in the same clinic reports about the same percents as me in terms of direct access. BUt I know, I know.. only one clinic, blah, blah.

 

[Screwtape]

Fiveoboy, unless you're living under a rock, there is absolutely NOTHING for the public to embrace about the upcoming changes to our healthcare system. It's catastrophic at all levels especially for small businesses and mid-sized businesses. But going back to what you were saying, the vast majority of the public would ALWAYS go to a REAL Doctor before seeking the opinion of a PT. This is especially true for anyone who can afford to pay for the opinion of a real medical expert.

I think i got lost on these forums... but if someone with a tooth ache goes to a "real doc", what will they do? Not much, tell them to go the dentist, because that's the dentists' area of specialty. Nowadays, majority of the public just go straight to the dentist. The same logic can be applied to physical therapists. MDs function much differently than DPTs. DPTs offer a different type of care than MDs. MDs serve an integral purpose in healthcare, as do DPTs.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I think i got lost on these forums... but if someone with a tooth ache goes to a "real doc", what will they do? Not much, tell them to go the dentist, because that's the dentists' area of specialty. Nowadays, majority of the public just go straight to the dentist. The same logic can be applied to physical therapists. MDs function much differently than DPTs. DPTs offer a different type of care than MDs. MDs serve an integral purpose in healthcare, as do DPTs.

 

[DesertPT]

Can I respectfully remind everyone that TopShelf85 is trolling?

He has bounced from the "doctor" thing to the ACA. I'm sure he'll bring up chiropractors next. You've been warned.

I don't get the thing of coming on the PT forum to trash on PT's.

And I am astounded that there are people taking the time to post on a forum called Student Doctor Network who are not aware of the definition of the words doctor and doctorate.

Very helpful pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate