Value of DUAL degree

[Podman23]

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The school that I attend (Scholl) give students the option of getting a second degree which is the MHA or Master's in Healthcare Admin. I always wanted to get MBA and now that I am in pod school this sounds like a great opportunity. However, this will add more to an already tough schedule.

So my question. Is it worth the extra time and hassle? How will an MHA degree advance my future career in terms of residency, job offers, promotions, and income?

 

[emericana]

The school that I attend (Scholl) give students the option of getting a second degree which is the MHA or Master's in Healthcare Admin. I always wanted to get MBA and now that I am in pod school this sounds like a great opportunity. However, this will add more to an already tough schedule.

So my question. Is it worth the extra time and hassle? How will an MHA degree advance my future career in terms of residency, job offers, promotions, and income?

Now I could be wrong, but it seems like since you are not working on corporate america, getting a mha or MBA or whatever will not necessarily directly raise your pay, however it will provide you with a good business background should you ever open your own practice. The pod I shadowed extensively told me that the pods she knows who have mbas usuaually have more successful private practices.

 

[347932]

Now I could be wrong, but it seems like since you are not working on corporate america, getting a mha or MBA or whatever will not necessarily directly raise your pay, however it will provide you with a good business background should you ever open your own practice. The pod I shadowed extensively told me that the pods she knows who have mbas usuaually have more successful private practices.

Although I somewhat agree with this there are very many Pods out there who did very well for themselves without this degree.

Generally, a degree such as an MHA can help if you are seeking an administrative type position in a hospital or insurance company down the road.

Much of the practice managing skills needed to run an efficient office can be learned by reading and discussing this with a trusted colleague willing to help. However, a degree such as an MHA can never hurt if you're willing to take the time and spend the money necessary to attain this advanced degree.

 

[dropfoot]

OCPM does not offer dual degrees, but i would do it in a heartbeat if they did. If you are interested, i think that it is a great opportunity. Will it increase your net worth as a Podiatrist??? Probably not, but it certainly would not hurt your credibility as a Professional.

 

[air bud]

I have gone back and forth on this issue. I initially pursued it. I talked to 4 DMU faculty about the idea of it. They were all basically against it. Some of it had to do with some prior knowledge that I had (business knowledge). By against it I guess I mean they said there were more important things to be doing with your time.

I can't imagine many residency directors being impressed by you getting an MHA. Sure it sets you apart, but I think they would rather you devote that time to something more worthwhile like research. I am continually amazed at how few students participate in research.

I think this is even more evident with the current residency situation. I see no reason to put yourself in a position where your current pod studies may suffer as a result. You can't just say, "oh I will just take 1 class at a time." At DMU you have 7 years to complete the program, but taking so few classes initially would lead to a backlog and then you are a point in your training where you have much more important stuff to do. Taking multiple classes means less time for family, social life and your pod education.

I think the moral of the story is focus on what you are supposed to to be doing-becoming the best trained podiatrist possible. Patients don't care how well you manage your overhead if you can't fix their foot.

Do one of your externships at the end of 4th year in a private practice and focus on practice management. Read a few books. Get a good accountant, lawyer and office manager and the rest will take care of itself. Also, get a second accountant to watch everybody without them knowing. Then, when the money starts flowing in, hire a business manager/marketing director.
This concludes Air Bud Practice Management 101.

 

[Paulywog]

Barry offers dual degrees in MBA and MPH. I wanted to do the MBA program but after talking to many Professionals and Podiatrists, I chose not to. The classes you take would not really apply as much to a Podiatry practice. Also, devoting more time to your Podiatry classes would pay off more. If you are seeking more letters after your name then do it. As a student, the best thing to do is to get involved with your schools AAPPM club and read the books they always recommend. Much of what Air bud said was good. Working in successful private practices your 4th year would be a great idea.
We have the option to take the Biomedical Science Master's test after our second year for like $25. That is cheap for a Master's degree.
Being the best trained podiatrist should include being trained to run a practice as well. Most patients wont ask what grades you got in school or what rank you were or if you got the best residency in the nation. Most care most about how you treat them as a person and how you listen, then how you can treat themas a physician. We will all be trained on how to be podiatrists.
Those students that are interested in Practice management as students and read as much as they can and affiliate themselves with successful podiatrists will be way ahead of their classmates. They will save themselves from timely and costly mistakes. Patients might not care how you manage your overhead but you should care.

 

[Busdriver321]

I kind of disagree with what most of you have said. I think it can have tons of value. Many pods have I have talked to have agreed as well. The main thing it comes down to is ones interest. People have stated that there are more important things to be doing. Well maybe doing one of those degrees is important to the individual and will benefit their long term goals. I have said this before and will say it again. There is nothing wrong with learning additional things, especially if it can and will pertain to your future. I am a dual degree student in an MHA program and I have already seen a benefit from the things I have learned in the MHA program. My pod grades haven't suffered at all. In fact, my grades have gone up. And through proper time management, my family time hasn't changed either. Its all about time management and priorities. If any of you are interested in a dual degree, by all means do it.

And as for the MHA program I am in, it hasn't just focused soley on practice management. We have learned leadership skills, concepts in the US healthcare system, the new legislation, HR process, and stats. How applicable are all of those things to us? Extremely. We all have to be good leaders in order to communicate with others with whom we work. Stats has been great for the research aspect. I have heard students present research data and not understand the data they are presenting or how it is derived. So the benefits are there. It has been one of the better decisions I have made.

Oh and just a side note, I have talked with a few current residents who did get a MHA or MPH and they said that during residency interviews, many of the directors did appreciate the degree and found great value in it.

 

[347932]

And as for the MHA program I am in, it hasn't just focused soley on practice management. We have learned leadership skills, concepts in the US healthcare system, the new legislation, HR process, and stats. How applicable are all of those things to us? Extremely. We all have to be good leaders in order to communicate with others with whom we work. Stats has been great for the research aspect. I have heard students present research data and not understand the data they are presenting or how it is derived. So the benefits are there. It has been one of the better decisions I have made.

I am not minimizing what you are doing and applaud you for taking the steps to further your professional education, however, all that you have mentioned is available to you without having had the benefit of this advanced degree. Education is ongoing, and hopefully the degree you will be getting will mostly teach you how important it is to keep up with the constant changes and evolution of our health care system.

 

[PADPM]

I will never discourage anyone from advancing his/her education. However, I'm not sure that an MHA, MPH is a great advantage when applying for a residency program or entering practice.

In reality, those degrees will not have any significant impact on your residency training, and the current trend is NOT opening a solo practice. Therefore, having an MHA or MPH may not be so "welcome" if you begin your career as an associate in a group practice or for an orthopedic group. I'm not sure anyone is going to hire you for your MHA/MPH degree to help with THAT aspect of a pre-existing practice or if they want you for your podiatric/foot/ankle skills.

If you plan on going into administration and/or public health, THAT'S a whole different story and those degrees will certainly be of greater value, or an MBA will be of value if opening your own practice since you will have a better sense of "business".

Once again, I would never discourage anyone from advancing his/her education, I'm just not sure it's going to significantly change your career opportunities if entering a group practice or the scenarios I've discussed.

 

[air bud]

I kind of disagree with what most of you have said. I think it can have tons of value. Many pods have I have talked to have agreed as well. The main thing it comes down to is ones interest. People have stated that there are more important things to be doing. Well maybe doing one of those degrees is important to the individual and will benefit their long term goals. I have said this before and will say it again. There is nothing wrong with learning additional things, especially if it can and will pertain to your future. I am a dual degree student in an MHA program and I have already seen a benefit from the things I have learned in the MHA program. My pod grades haven't suffered at all. In fact, my grades have gone up. And through proper time management, my family time hasn't changed either. Its all about time management and priorities. If any of you are interested in a dual degree, by all means do it.

And as for the MHA program I am in, it hasn't just focused soley on practice management. We have learned leadership skills, concepts in the US healthcare system, the new legislation, HR process, and stats. How applicable are all of those things to us? Extremely. We all have to be good leaders in order to communicate with others with whom we work. Stats has been great for the research aspect. I have heard students present research data and not understand the data they are presenting or how it is derived. So the benefits are there. It has been one of the better decisions I have made.

Oh and just a side note, I have talked with a few current residents who did get a MHA or MPH and they said that during residency interviews, many of the directors did appreciate the degree and found great value in it.

I don't want to devalue what you are doing, I think it is great, especially if you have been able to continue being successful in other stuff. However, I think it takes a unique student to try and do both successfully. I think for most students, it is probably not the best option.

 

[Busdriver321]

I will never discourage anyone from advancing his/her education. However, I'm not sure that an MHA, MPH is a great advantage when applying for a residency program or entering practice.

In reality, those degrees will not have any significant impact on your residency training, and the current trend is NOT opening a solo practice. Therefore, having an MHA or MPH may not be so "welcome" if you begin your career as an associate in a group practice or for an orthopedic group. I'm not sure anyone is going to hire you for your MHA/MPH degree to help with THAT aspect of a pre-existing practice or if they want you for your podiatric/foot/ankle skills.

If you plan on going into administration and/or public health, THAT'S a whole different story and those degrees will certainly be of greater value, or an MBA will be of value if opening your own practice since you will have a better sense of "business".

Once again, I would never discourage anyone from advancing his/her education, I'm just not sure it's going to significantly change your career opportunities if entering a group practice or the scenarios I've discussed.

I don't think it will significant'y change career opportunities but I do think it can create or keep some doors open that may not of otherwise been there. I like options.

I am surprised that you feel learning administrative skills won't give any type of advantage entering practice, even as an associate. You have a lot more experience than I do so I don't question that. I am just surprised as I have talked to quite a few pods who felt that something along those lines would have benefited them tremendously. These are people in solo and multi-specialty practices. When I was deciding whether to pursue this or not, I spoke with quite a many pods to get their take and I got nothing but positive responses. In fact, one of the owners of one practice said he wished associates he hires would have more administrative and business sense to help grow the practice. Makes sense to me.

Again, it all depends on your perspective and goals.

Kidsfeet, I think there is some truth in your comment. All the info is available to everyone. With that argument though, so is the info in most degrees. I can learn how to do a bunion by watching a video on youtube or reading from a book. I think its in the application and true understanding where the value comes in. To me, getting the education relating to healthcare administration (and obviously podiatry) is best done learning from experienced individuals who do understand the principles and have real life examples. This comes through organized educational institutions more often than not. To me (not everyone), there is great value in this.

I would encourage the poster to evaluate the dual degree value according to your goals and desires. Everyone does have their own opinion. But I can tell you from my educational experience (not career as I have not been in the pod workforce as other posters) that my MHA classes have greatly and will continue to be of great value to me.

Best of luck in your choices.

 

[Busdriver321]

I don't want to devalue what you are doing, I think it is great, especially if you have been able to continue being successful in other stuff. However, I think it takes a unique student to try and do both successfully. I think for most students, it is probably not the best option.

Oh I don't take it as if you are minimizing it at all. It's not for everyone, and I am not referring to your comment about it requiring a unique person as I am not unique. I am just an average joe. The administrative and business side of things is an interest of mine so I am just motivated to develop that and combine it with podiatry. I am really excited about the future.

This has nothing directed at you specifically but even if you were devaluing it, it wouldn't really matter to me. I am secure with my decisions. I am not trying to defend my choice in my comments, just explaining why.

 

[Podfather]

Oh I don't take it as if you are minimizing it at all. It's not for everyone, and I am not referring to your comment about it requiring a unique person as I am not unique. I am just an average joe. The administrative and business side of things is an interest of mine so I am just motivated to develop that and combine it with podiatry. I am really excited about the future.

This has nothing directed at you specifically but even if you were devaluing it, it wouldn't really matter to me. I am secure with my decisions. I am not trying to defend my choice in my comments, just explaining why.

If it doesn't take away from your DPM education and you can handle it, I say why not? Education is never a bad thing. And once you graduate it will be a lot harder to go back and get the degree. With the changes in healthcare, education such as an MHA/MBA may open doors for you in an administrative position and open up a venue for extra income as a consultant.

 

[PADPM]

I don't think it will significant'y change career opportunities but I do think it can create or keep some doors open that may not of otherwise been there. I like options.

I am surprised that you feel learning administrative skills won't give any type of advantage entering practice, even as an associate. You have a lot more experience than I do so I don't question that. I am just surprised as I have talked to quite a few pods who felt that something along those lines would have benefited them tremendously. These are people in solo and multi-specialty practices. When I was deciding whether to pursue this or not, I spoke with quite a many pods to get their take and I got nothing but positive responses. In fact, one of the owners of one practice said he wished associates he hires would have more administrative and business sense to help grow the practice. Makes sense to me.

Again, it all depends on your perspective and goals.

Kidsfeet, I think there is some truth in your comment. All the info is available to everyone. With that argument though, so is the info in most degrees. I can learn how to do a bunion by watching a video on youtube or reading from a book. I think its in the application and true understanding where the value comes in. To me, getting the education relating to healthcare administration (and obviously podiatry) is best done learning from experienced individuals who do understand the principles and have real life examples. This comes through organized educational institutions more often than not. To me (not everyone), there is great value in this.

I would encourage the poster to evaluate the dual degree value according to your goals and desires. Everyone does have their own opinion. But I can tell you from my educational experience (not career as I have not been in the pod workforce as other posters) that my MHA classes have greatly and will continue to be of great value to me.

Best of luck in your choices.

I think you may have misunderstood my comments. When you enter a new pre-existing practice, many of these practices aren't quite so "open minded" and aren't always very willing to let the new doctor make recommendations regarding on how to improve THEIR practice. They may feel that they already "know it all" and this new guy is coming in telling them how to improve their already successful practice.

I am NOT agreeing with this philosophy, but I do know it exists, and therefore in these situations the advanced degree will not help. But as previously stated, in my opinion the extra education will never hurt.

 

[347932]

I don't think it will significant'y change career opportunities but I do think it can create or keep some doors open that may not of otherwise been there. I like options.

I am surprised that you feel learning administrative skills won't give any type of advantage entering practice, even as an associate. You have a lot more experience than I do so I don't question that. I am just surprised as I have talked to quite a few pods who felt that something along those lines would have benefited them tremendously. These are people in solo and multi-specialty practices. When I was deciding whether to pursue this or not, I spoke with quite a many pods to get their take and I got nothing but positive responses. In fact, one of the owners of one practice said he wished associates he hires would have more administrative and business sense to help grow the practice. Makes sense to me.

Again, it all depends on your perspective and goals.

Kidsfeet, I think there is some truth in your comment. All the info is available to everyone. With that argument though, so is the info in most degrees. I can learn how to do a bunion by watching a video on youtube or reading from a book. I think its in the application and true understanding where the value comes in. To me, getting the education relating to healthcare administration (and obviously podiatry) is best done learning from experienced individuals who do understand the principles and have real life examples. This comes through organized educational institutions more often than not. To me (not everyone), there is great value in this.

I would encourage the poster to evaluate the dual degree value according to your goals and desires. Everyone does have their own opinion. But I can tell you from my educational experience (not career as I have not been in the pod workforce as other posters) that my MHA classes have greatly and will continue to be of great value to me.

Best of luck in your choices.

Let me ask you some questions. Does this degree teach you how to approach a bank to get a loan to start your own practice? Does it teach you the intricacies of billing and coding? Will what this degree teach you prevent you from committing fraud while billing? Will it teach what exactly to look for in a good employee and how to fire someone who is stealing from you? These are all real issues that come up when dealing with the day to day business of medicine. What I've seen with much of the curriculum of these Master's program are that they are slim in this regard, but very heavy on the admintering of insurance companies and hospitals. Even if it does touch on my questions, once again, these are things that can be learned independantly. Again, I think advancing your education in any way is exemplary, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

The other comment about learning surgery on youtube is really comparing apples and oranges. Its a matter of licensure and trust. You can't get a license to practice without a medical degree in this country (unless you commit fraud and lie). At this point in time there aren't many doctors performing procedure without the training and the credentials. However, there are MANY people in business who became very successful without the benefit of an advanced business degree. I personally know a few that never even made it out of high school. Also, I realize your comment in this regard is somewhat tongue in cheek, it doesn't add validity to your claims.

 

[347932]

I think you may have misunderstood my comments. When you enter a new pre-existing practice, many of these practices aren't quite so "open minded" and aren't always very willing to let the new doctor make recommendations regarding on how to improve THEIR practice. They may feel that they already "know it all" and this new guy is coming in telling them how to improve their already successful practice.

I am NOT agreeing with this philosophy, but I do know it exists, and therefore in these situations the advanced degree will not help. But as previously stated, in my opinion the extra education will never hurt.

I 100% agree with this. One of things that people with these advanced degrees do is go into practices as business consultants paid to improve the business side of the practice. From many (not all) of the practitioners I've met in my travels, they would not take kindly to "the new kid" trying to "fix" how they do things. Even if its done in a very unobtrusive way. Especially if they are associates with no partnership interest.

I also don't agree with this philosophy, as anything to help improve the bottom line should at least be investigated, regardless of the source.

 

[Busdriver321]

Let me ask you some questions. Does this degree teach you how to approach a bank to get a loan to start your own practice? Does it teach you the intricacies of billing and coding? Will what this degree teach you prevent you from committing fraud while billing? Will it teach what exactly to look for in a good employee and how to fire someone who is stealing from you? These are all real issues that come up when dealing with the day to day business of medicine. What I've seen with much of the curriculum of these Master's program are that they are slim in this regard, but very heavy on the admintering of insurance companies and hospitals. Even if it does touch on my questions, once again, these are things that can be learned independantly. Again, I think advancing your education in any way is exemplary, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

The other comment about learning surgery on youtube is really comparing apples and oranges. Its a matter of licensure and trust. You can't get a license to practice without a medical degree in this country (unless you commit fraud and lie). At this point in time there aren't many doctors performing procedure without the training and the credentials. However, there are MANY people in business who became very successful without the benefit of an advanced business degree. I personally know a few that never even made it out of high school. Also, I realize your comment in this regard is somewhat tongue in cheek, it doesn't add validity to your claims.

As per your first question, my current finance class I am in is going over types o business loans and what needs to be done to acquire a loan from a bank, etc. So yes.

Number 2, there are two courses of billing and coding required. I haven't taken them yet so I can't tell you how many "intricacies" we have learned. So yes.

Number 3, a course I took last semester covered this very topic, along with how to hire, interview skills, dealing with issues and problems, and yes terminating employment. So yes.

Like you said, they are all real issues and people need to know how to deal with them.

My other comparison may not have been direct, but the principle remains the same. It's fine if you disagree. I have no issues with that. I think its good for people to see debate and different perspectives on things. That is one of the benefits of forums like these. I know that I have previously benefited from reading discussion of people who had different perspectives on things. I do appreciate your opinions and value your experience.

 

[347932]

As per your first question, my current finance class I am in is going over types o business loans and what needs to be done to acquire a loan from a bank, etc. So yes.

Number 2, there are two courses of billing and coding required. I haven't taken them yet so I can't tell you how many "intricacies" we have learned. So yes.

Number 3, a course I took last semester covered this very topic, along with how to hire, interview skills, dealing with issues and problems, and yes terminating employment. So yes.

I'm glad to see that the curriculum has changed since I looked into it all those years ago. Perhaps there is more value to it than I initially thought. Thank you for the insight.