Vanderbilt or Duke?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ChakDeyPhutteMD

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
Points
0
  1. Pre-Medical
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
They have very different programs but I would like to hear what you all think about them? Both are excellent schools...duke seems to have a better "name" but i looked at the match list from last year (someone posted it on sdn) and it doesn't seem as good as vanderbilts!
 
Duke was my #1 ultra dream school until I saw the secondary. Vandy was one of the most incredible schools that I've visited. Both have awesome name recognition and reputations for developing awesome physicians.

I think what really distinguishes them is that Duke has that innovative "Duke curriculum" which really sets it apart from any other med school. However, from what I hear, Vandy has overhauled its curriculum and will implemented it in the fall. Also, Duke seems to be a more research intensive school than Vandy, yet Vandy does have the emphasis program. I guess it all really depends on your personal goals in medicine.
 
The match lists are not going to tell you anything. Both schools will match very well, and you have to consider that not everyone wants to go into ortho/derm/whatever.

That being said, the main thing w/ Duke is that they condense two years of pre-clinical material into one year, and this gives you a full year to do what you want (though it seems like they push for research quite a bit for this year). You'll either hate it or love it, and it'll probably be a huge deciding factor.

I also ended up withdrawing after seeing the secondary, but I also don't think that that much time off is what I'm interested in. You'll also hear varying opinions on how good of a job Duke does in implementing the condensed pre-clinical training. I've heard enough negative reviews to deter me, but I'm sure enough Duke students will be behind it 100%, so take a very good look at the setup.

Plus I'm a Terrapins fan (too bad they're not so great right now).
 
Duke rules!

Reasons why it rules:
1) Curriculum - you are going to kick yourself in the a$$ if you go to a school with a basic science curriculum that is longer than a year. You will soon realize that it would have been much more advantageous to get that crap done with in one year so that you could start rotations the next year instead going back to class.
2) Grades are NOT curved! Why does that matter you ask... well, because grades are not curved, everyone helps each other out. There is no advantage to not help your classmates (other than if you want a bunch of enemies). After finals week this past week, I truly realized how beneficial it is to have all of your classmates on your side as you all prepare for a barrage of tests. There were so many reviews sent out to the class, people would sit you down and explain things to you that you didn't get, and people were even discussing which ways were best to study for which subjects.
3) Third year - If you didn't already know this, Duke is essentially a two year med school. What most schools do in three years (i.e. the hardest years of med school), Duke does all that in only two. Then, you have an amazing third year experience in any academic setting you choose (both subject and location... that's right... you can leave Duke for your third year if you want to do research somewhere else). Pretty much all med students who are looking to boost their resumes for residency are doing research these days. You might as well be at a school that encourages research so much that they have it built right in to the curriculum (and for a year no less with no geographical restrictions).
4) The people are the coolest and most diverse that you will ever find (other than me... I'm referring more to my classmates 🙂). The administration is amazingly helpful, professors are supportive, fair, and attentive to the students' needs, and the students are the best (I freakin LOVE my classmates).

Anyhoo... if you have any other questions, just PM me.
 
When considering Duke's match list, keep in mind that Duke is exceptional in a number of fields. Most consider its IM program, at least, to be on par with JH, MGH, and BWH.
 
I don't really think you can wrong with either school. The match lists and reputation of the schools are comparable. I know people here at Vandy who turned down Duke for various reasons, and it ultimately is a personal decision IF you are lucky enough to get accepted to both of these schools.

If you are into research, Vandy is an excellent choice. I've already started my Emphasis project (I go into the lab for a couple hours a week). But the real advantage is that you have to get the ball rolling getting a project from near the first day of school (a mentor must be chosen by early January and earlier is highly encouraged). You are given time and expected to use it wisely during the academic year to devote to your project. So in essence, the project time that you would have at Duke during M3 is given to you during M1 and M2 at Vanderbilt. One major advantage of doing this earlier in your medical training is that potential publications are more likely to come to fruition during your tenure as a medical student, and more likely to be completed before residency applications are even thought about. If you look at Vandy that way, it seems that we cram what Duke has in M1 an M3 into M1 and M2 here.

Both schools are going to have amazing students, and I assume Duke students are probably just as happy with their school as Vanderbilt students. Nashville is a very nice city to live in which is a reason why alot of us like it here so much.
 
Curriculum's the biggie here. To choose Duke you really have to buy into the 1 yr basic science curriculum. While this seems awesome (everyone is ready to be done with class, except those crazy mdphders), there are trade offs as I've heard the first year is pretty intense and also lasts a full 12 months (no MS1 summer). The benefits are a year to do research/MPH etc. and probably be more competitive without taking extra time to do that stuff.

So, if you're definitely interested in those things, Duke will give you an opportunity to do them and get done in 4 years. If not, you might enjoy a little more time to learn the material at Vandy and take a year off to do research or whatever if you change your mind later. Both are great schools, both will get you any residency you want.
 
They have very different programs but I would like to hear what you all think about them? Both are excellent schools...duke seems to have a better "name" but i looked at the match list from last year (someone posted it on sdn) and it doesn't seem as good as vanderbilts!

ps. as a pre-med (or even pre-clinical year med student) you really don't know enough to interpret a match list. The only thing to consider matching wise is that if you know you want to do a residency at Duke you would do well to go to Duke med school (all residency programs fill a large chunk of their spots from the home institution). Focus more on which school is going to give YOU the best chance to succeed, which may or may not be the same school that will give someone else the best chance for success.
 
I interviewed at both and liked Vanderbilt a lot more. Seemed to be in a better city and had a better all around feel. Its match list is unbeatable, it has an strong research program, and the students are really really happy.
 
thanks for the input guys...very helpful. this is assuming that i am lucky enough to get into duke that i'll have to make a decision...but the thought that definitely crossed my mind was that M1/M3 at Duke is like M1/M2 at Vanderbilt w/ the Emphasis program. Although, i do love the idea of jumping into rotations second year.

How about Durham vs. Nashville?
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Nashville is a bigger city, more interesting city, and lower cost of living city. Weather is probably about the same.
 
go to vanderbilt so the rest of us who really love duke and go to duke
 
Chak, I wanted to talk a little about the advantage of the Duke curriculum that has nothing to do with the research (b/c FCD so eloquently explained it above).

I'm currently a second year doing my rotations and I can honestly say that I would be so much more stressed if I were doing these in my third year, mere months before having to apply for residency. So many of my classmates (myself included) either have little idea of what they want to do or have an idea that turns out to be the wrong one once they got on the rotation (e.g. gung-ho future surgeons who decide they hate waking up at 4am everyday). It's so nice knowing that we have an entire year between rotations and applying for residency to decide our futures. Also, whereas a lot of schools don't give electives until 4th year, Duke allows us to take 3 electives during our second year: two 2-week and one 4-week elective. I know it's totally possible to do rotations your third year, decide what you want to do, then apply months later considering every other medical school does this. But I really can't imagine how much more stressed I'd be if that were the case.

Also, I've never been to Nashville (though I hear it's nice), but I really like the Durham-Chapel Hill area. Durham has cheap housing, is very suburbial, Chapel Hill is an awesome town, and Raleigh is a great city only 35 minutes away. In fact, Raleigh is in the top 5 or top 10 for best cities for single people. Lots of young professionals and graduate students. I've been here for 7 years already and it's definitely grown on me 🙂
 
The match lists are not going to tell you anything.

Yeah...that's not true. I haven't seen Duke's match list, but Vandy's is awesome (I hope to be a part of this next one). Match lists would probably be tied for 1st on my list of factors to be taken into consideration (location and satisfaction of students are also very important).

I don't know how Dukies do with Step 1 with the condensed year, but Vandy's Step 1 average is always in the 230-240 range (I know of at least 6 260s, >10 250s - most keep their score hush hush, so there are likely many more), so you should keep that in mind. Both will get you the reputation factor.
 
Also, I've never been to Nashville (though I hear it's nice), but I really like the Durham-Chapel Hill area. Durham has cheap housing, is very suburbial, Chapel Hill is an awesome town, and Raleigh is a great city only 35 minutes away. In fact, Raleigh is in the top 5 or top 10 for best cities for single people. Lots of young professionals and graduate students. I've been here for 7 years already and it's definitely grown on me 🙂

Do alot of students live close to school at Duke? I'm not very familiar with the area, so I don't know if the 'ghetto' image that Duke is often given is true to the area it actually is in.

Vanderbilt's location advantage lies in that you can live close to school while not being stuck in a university bubble.

Duke's use of M2 as a time for required rotations is a very good idea, and I wish that Vanderbilt got us started a little earlier on required rotations. At the same time, we get to pick a specialty to do a once-a-week preceptorship in for the first semester of M1. Vanderbilt incorporates elective coursework into the M1 and M2 years (you have to do it for 3 semesters, but many students take more than the minimum amount). I'm taking medical spanish right now, but many of the electives are clinically oriented, some with the explicit intent of giving students clinical experience in a wide variety of specialties specifically to help them make their decisions. Our dean has emphasized us beginning to explore specialties from day 1 so that such stress is avoided. In the end, you are going to have the opportunity to make educated decisions about your specialty choice.

Anyway, either school is top notch and one would have to be extremely lucky to even have to make the decision between Vanderbilt and Duke. Definitely apply to both if you are at that stage, and definitely interview at both if given the opportunity.
 
Yeah...that's not true. I haven't seen Duke's match list, but Vandy's is awesome (I hope to be a part of this next one). Match lists would probably be tied for 1st on my list of factors to be taken into consideration (location and satisfaction of students are also very important).

I don't know how Dukies do with Step 1 with the condensed year, but Vandy's Step 1 average is always in the 230-240 range (I know of at least 6 260s, >10 250s - most keep their score hush hush, so there are likely many more), so you should keep that in mind. Both will get you the reputation factor.

i beg to differ. there are too many intangibles involved in match lists that we just can't know. For example, a student's decision to go anywhere may have been contingent upon location. If more students at Duke say wished to do a residency closer to home, this would skew the results. there are other personal reasons too. some students like to stay at their med school institution because they have all the networking down or have started families. duke students generally get their top 3 choices for residency. i'm sure vanderbilt is similar. from this point its just comparing apples and apples. any perceived difference is just a matter of intangibles. match lists give a general idea of where students go, but when your comparing vandy and duke you're wasting your time
 
Do alot of students live close to school at Duke? I'm not very familiar with the area, so I don't know if the 'ghetto' image that Duke is often given is true to the area it actually is in.
Most students live within a 10 minute drive of Duke. Duke itself isn't in the "ghetto", but Durham is a weird city in that you can be in a really nice, upscale area, and 4 miles later on the same street you're in an area I wouldn't walk alone in at night. I do think Nashville has the advantage of being an overall safer city, that's for sure. But as long as you're smart about where you are and who you're with then you should be fine.

Vandy is a great school. Duke is a great school. I'd base this decision completely on which curriculum you like better.
 
i beg to differ. there are too many intangibles involved in match lists that we just can't know. For example, a student's decision to go anywhere may have been contingent upon location. If more students at Duke say wished to do a residency closer to home, this would skew the results. there are other personal reasons too. some students like to stay at their med school institution because they have all the networking down or have started families. duke students generally get their top 3 choices for residency. i'm sure vanderbilt is similar. from this point its just comparing apples and apples. any perceived difference is just a matter of intangibles. match lists give a general idea of where students go, but when your comparing vandy and duke you're wasting your time

In addition, premeds (and even med students) can't really read a match list, because the "top" programs in a specialty are not always Harvard, JHU, etc. For example, did you know that the University of Cincinnati has one of the best Emergency Medicine programs? Etc, etc.
 
i beg to differ. there are too many intangibles involved in match lists that we just can't know. For example, a student's decision to go anywhere may have been contingent upon location. If more students at Duke say wished to do a residency closer to home, this would skew the results. there are other personal reasons too. some students like to stay at their med school institution because they have all the networking down or have started families. duke students generally get their top 3 choices for residency. i'm sure vanderbilt is similar. from this point its just comparing apples and apples. any perceived difference is just a matter of intangibles. match lists give a general idea of where students go, but when your comparing vandy and duke you're wasting your time

95% of match all-comer applicants get one of their top 3 choices, not just at Duke.

As for the rest, my point exactly. If you want to have a California residency, look at School X's match list. No Cali schools means you're also not likely to go there. Look at Duke's match list and see a bunch of Wake, UNC, Dukes on the list and that's where you'd like to end up, then that's the place for you (again, I haven't seen Duke's list and I am positive it is equally as impressive as Vandy's). Look at Vandy's list and you will see people going into top specialties at top programs spread all around the country with some local and regional bias just like what you're talking about.

On the other hand, go to Ross University's match list (sorry to pick on anyone) and you'll see a bunch of crap programs along with unmatched.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
95% of match all-comer applicants get one of their top 3 choices, not just at Duke.

As for the rest, my point exactly. If you want to have a California residency, look at School X's match list. No Cali schools means you're also not likely to go there. Look at Duke's match list and see a bunch of Wake, UNC, Dukes on the list and that's where you'd like to end up, then that's the place for you (again, I haven't seen Duke's list and I am positive it is equally as impressive as Vandy's). Look at Vandy's list and you will see people going into top specialties at top programs spread all around the country with some local and regional bias just like what you're talking about.

On the other hand, go to Ross University's match list (sorry to pick on anyone) and you'll see a bunch of crap programs along with unmatched.

If you're comparing Ross University to Vandy/Duke, then yes, the match list is a useful tool.

If you're comparing any top-50 (arbitrary number) school to any other top-50 school, probably not so useful. If you see that school X matches 5 ppl into ortho and school Y matches 2 ppl, that doesn't tell you that X is better than Y. It could be due to all sorts of factors (maybe that class didn't have ppl interested in ortho for example). As for where ppl end up location-wise, perhaps the people who go to school X want to stay in the same area for residency, doesn't necessarily mean that they're less likely to get into a residency in a different area. If you have an individual preference for California, you're just as likely to get into it from either Duke or Vandy, even if the match lists may say that one school places more ppl in California compared to the other school.

You also made mention about Step I scores a bit earlier. From what I understand, and really the medical students are going to have to confirm this b/c I have no real idea, it seems like Step I is much more a function of the individual rather than a function of the school. What I mean is, if you take a person who gets a 240 at School X, they'll probably get very close to that same score if they had attended School Y. If you want to use it as a discerning factor, don't interpret it as an indication of how well the school does at teaching the material, better to use it as an indication of the students who will be attending. But again, if you're comparing Ross University to Vandy/Duke, then yes Step I can tell a lot.
 
Plus at Vandy you don't get the endless pleasure that you would here from Dr. Cartmill's legendary sideburns.
 
wise words... 🙂 thanks! you guys have been very helpful. hopefully we'll get to meet when i come in feb (to duke).
 
Whoops, I guess I was a little slow to hop on the bandwagon.

Plus at Vandy you don't get the endless pleasure that you would here from Dr. Cartmill's legendary sideburns.

Oh, but haven't you heard??? Cartmill is retiring! Or he's going to teach at BU. Kay is the new course director. At least next year's class will still have to pleasure of Schmitt's bow ties and primitive mammal impressions.

Anyways, OP, it's all about fit. I had a choice between both, and I chose Duke. I can name another half dozen or so classmates off the top of my head who made the same choice of Duke over Vandy. I liked Vandy, but Duke was where it all fell into place. I absolutely love it here, and I'm pretty much insanely happy to be here. My classmates (like FemalesCantDriv) are amazing and I love pretty much all of them... 😍 I like having a class size of only 100; I know everyone, and I honestly feel like I can hang out and have a good time with any one of them--and for the most part, I have! Also, what else? I was a biochem major, so the idea of only one more year of pre-clinical classes appealed to me. I like the nice suburban feel of Durham, as opposed to the more urban feel of Nashville. Yes, Durham does have some sketchy areas, but so does Nashville, and I rarely ever venture into sketchy areas anyway.

I looked at housing for both schools, and I seem to remember that Durham was a little cheaper, and what you got for your money was a little nicer. Not a huge difference, though, and certainly nothing that should sway you one way or the other. One thing I will say about being a grad student in Durham is that everything is spread out. People generally don't live within walking distance of the school, public transportation is hit-or-miss, and while there are places to go and things to do, you'll need a car (and a designated driver) if you want to go out.

You really do need to buy into the compressed curriculum if you're going to be happy at Duke, though. It doesn't leave too much time for activities outside of school work. Not to say that we don't spend time hanging out, partying, or having fun, because we do plenty of that (often as a class), but I'll admit that it's probably less than our peers at other comparable institutions. Vanderbilt students seemed to be more able to enjoy non-medically-related extracurriculars, and they really tried to show off how well-rounded their students are during Second Look. There are some amazingly talented dancers, musicians, and writers at Vandy, that's for sure. There probably are quite a few at Duke, too, but we just don't have too much of an opportunity to show off those skills around here. 🙂 However, a Duke med student Talent Show is in the works for March... we'll see how that goes.

On the issue of Step I scores... I've heard rumors (uncomfirmed) for years that Duke consistently has among the highest Step I averages, generally second only to UPenn (another school with a compressed curriculum). The argument I've heard is that people at Duke don't take Step I until their research year, after they've gone through the basic sciences and a year of clerkships. The result is that they've seen everything twice, and therefore do better. The other argument I've heard is that Duke students are just good test-takers (although, having taken three final exams last week, I beg to differ). For the past few years, I think, Duke's incoming first-year class has had the highest GPA and MCAT scores of any other med school, after WashU (I think I'm seeing a trend here). They told us the average numbers once... for my class, it was something like a 3.85 and a 37, which kind of borders on the obscene.

Don't knock the Duke match list, either. It may not be a column full of JHUs and MGHs, but it certainly shouldn't deter anyone from attending Duke. As others have mentioned, there are so many factors that go into the match list. In addition, there are just too many great resources here for you not to be able to attend a top-notch residency.

I will say something in favor of Vandy, though. The administration seems to be 100% devoted to its med students. The med students almost felt like the center of the institution's universe; it seems like a very nurturing environment. Here, not so much. We're supported, but it's more on an individual (fellow students, faculty, deans, physicians) rather than insitutional level. You'll find support everywhere you look (from our amazing chancellor to the amazing A/V guys), but you have to look for it and ask for it.

Ultimately, it's a personal decision, as I'm sure you've been told. Both schools are great, in their own ways, just not in the same way. Anyways, PM me with any questions, although FCD is probably more knowledgeable about all things Duke. I'm sure you'll see most, if not all, of us when you come in February, so until then, good luck!
 
Vandy has an AWSOME name. If you practice in the south vandy is perty much the best. BTW it does not matter where you go to med school. My opinion is go to the cheaper one. Your residency is what matters and all you have to do is get in med-school and get GOOD usmle scores and you are set
 
Nashville is a bigger city, more interesting city, and lower cost of living city. Weather is probably about the same.

I'm not sure it's possible to have lower cost of living than Durham. Is that really true???

I've heard the first year is pretty intense and also lasts a full 12 months (no MS1 summer).

If not, you might enjoy a little more time to learn the material at Vandy and take a year off to do research or whatever if you change your mind later.

First year is intense but what med school isn't intense??? Bottom line, med school is hard and intense so you might as well get it done with sooner so that you can get to the fun stuff more quickly (or so goes the Duke mentality). And the first year lasts 11 months, so we do have 4 wks for summer this year 🙂 In that same vein, what are you going to do with a 2-3 month summer after first year at any other school. You are going to do some BS research project that you don't understand all that well because you aren't all the way through your coursework yet, and on top of that, right as you get into the lab and get settled, it is time to go back to med school. Something people always say that baffles me is, "Duke doesn't have a summer after first year." First off, we do; it is simply shorter. Second, and more importantly, that summer is the last summer you are going to have at any other med school anyway. YOU ARE GOING TO BE A DOCTOR. There is no such thing as summer anymore. So why wait... just start your first year already. Sheesh.

One major advantage of doing this earlier in your medical training is that potential publications are more likely to come to fruition during your tenure as a medical student, and more likely to be completed before residency applications are even thought about.

Somehow, I get the feeling that this is a rather bold assumption. I'm not really sure if this is true or not (although) I doubt that it is, but I would assume that you are at least more likely to have a first author publication and/or multiple publications including first authored work since you have already been through essentially all of med school once you are doing your research project. I mean, this Emphasis Program sounds great, but how much work can you do and understand before ever doing a single rotation or during your coursework. That might be something to think about...
 
i think the concensus in the south is that duke is pretty much the best according to some people i've spoken with who are professors down south. but either way both are awesome.
 
Somehow, I get the feeling that this is a rather bold assumption. I'm not really sure if this is true or not (although) I doubt that it is, but I would assume that you are at least more likely to have a first author publication and/or multiple publications including first authored work since you have already been through essentially all of med school once you are doing your research project. I mean, this Emphasis Program sounds great, but how much work can you do and understand before ever doing a single rotation or during your coursework. That might be something to think about...

I've already got started on my project...reading papers and discussing things I don't understand about the field with my mentor. Most students here take their Emphasis Projects seriously and for you to suggest that its "some BS research project that you don't understand all that well because you aren't all the way through your coursework yet" is a rather presumptuous statement if it was aimed at our program.

I really don't understand how the research I'm going to do would be assisted if I had already completed my clinical rotations. I guess watching surgeries and taking a patients' histories will help me understand molecular biology and genetics? Of course, what do I know, I'm only a first year.
 
I've already got started on my project...reading papers and discussing things I don't understand about the field with my mentor. Most students here take their Emphasis Projects seriously and for you to suggest that its "some BS research project that you don't understand all that well because you aren't all the way through your coursework yet" is a rather presumptuous statement if it was aimed at our program.

I really don't understand how the research I'm going to do would be assisted if I had already completed my clinical rotations. I guess watching surgeries and taking a patients' histories will help me understand molecular biology and genetics? Of course, what do I know, I'm only a first year.

I'd add that many people manage to do research and get publications without EVER going through med school. But the advantage to doing your research after you've done your rotations is that, hypothetically, it's more likely that you will chose to do research in the area that you want to go into, which will help you make connections and look good on your residency apps.
 
I've already got started on my project...reading papers and discussing things I don't understand about the field with my mentor. Most students here take their Emphasis Projects seriously and for you to suggest that its "some BS research project that you don't understand all that well because you aren't all the way through your coursework yet" is a rather presumptuous statement if it was aimed at our program.

I really don't understand how the research I'm going to do would be assisted if I had already completed my clinical rotations. I guess watching surgeries and taking a patients' histories will help me understand molecular biology and genetics? Of course, what do I know, I'm only a first year.

Sorry QM, I didn't mean it like that. I meant BS as in a play on words for basic science. Plus, I was thinking of it more in terms of people who want to do clinical research rather than basic science research. I can only assume that if people really wanted to do lots of basic science research, they woulda just done a PhD or MD/PhD. I didn't mean to say that yalls Emphasis Program is BS. I'm sure it is a great program. I would just rather be prepared before doing my research and have more time devoted strictly to the research itself.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Sorry QM, I didn't mean it like that. I meant BS as in a play on words for basic science. Plus, I was thinking of it more in terms of people who want to do clinical research rather than basic science research. I can only assume that if people really wanted to do lots of basic science research, they woulda just done a PhD or MD/PhD. I didn't mean to say that yalls Emphasis Program is BS. I'm sure it is a great program. I would just rather be prepared before doing my research and have more time devoted strictly to the research itself.

:laugh: your statement makes ALOT more sense that way
 
😱

No more sideburns?! Wow. May as well go to Vandy then.

Jay Kay, Jay Kay. As you said, at least there's the famous primitive animal lecture. Not to mention the endless amounts of fun we get from seeing TG's skirts get shorter when a certain Mol & Cells prof is scheduled to lecture.

I guess it's time for me to put in my honest $2. (Inflation.)

Regarding the cost of living: I bought a townhouse and am now paying $611 per month for my monthly payment. This is less than some people's rent. Did I mention I also have a roommate who pays for just about 1/2 of that every month? This drops my "rent" cost down to <$350. Internet ($30), water ($15ish), gas ($30ish), energy ($30ish) = around 500 a month and you've got the whole "place to live" thing taken care of. And then there's the added benefit of deciding that you want your bedroom to be Tiffany Blue and actually getting to paint it that way.

Regarding shortcomings of the curriculum: the only time I have noticed it to be a detriment on the wards is during the pimping questions in surgery. However, from what I could tell (and grading in surgery is hazy at best) this had very little bearing on grades. So really, who cares? You review all of the anatomy in surgery anyway and the shelf exam has exactly ZERO anatomy questions on it.

Also, I don't care how long you spend going over the basic sciences stuff the first time, you WILL require at least two weeks of hardcore review before you take the step I. Major differences here? 1) Most PIs will let you take at least two weeks completely off (I'm getting 4, I think). 2) You can do this at almost any time during 3rd year, meaning you do NOT have to do it straight out of the basic sciences course, meaning you're NOT 100% burned out on learning microbiology already when you begin studying. Key.

Plus there's all that money kicking around for people taking a year off to do research. CDC, HHMI, NIH, Doris Duke, Sarnoff. . . A good chunk of each year gets their 3rd year actually covered, so yes, maybe tuition is a little bit higher or maybe you won't get as much grant money here as you would somewhere else. . .BUT you might only have to take out loans for 3 years, not 4. And might I add, good project during 3rd year --> extra scholarships during 4th year for many as well.

And finally, Durham doesn't suck *that much*. If you're a sports guy, it's a really exciting place to be what with the tobacco rivals and all. If you're an outdoorsy person there's plenty of rock climbing and hiking and bike trails and all kinds of woodsy crap. The AT is only a 3 hour drive away. Decent skiing at 5 hours in WV.

The biggest environmental failure here for me has been the lack of music, which of course will be better in Nashtown. However, there is the Orange Peel out in Asheville which is a pretty awesome little venue which attracts some of the names that you music snobs might recognize. I saw Rilo Kiley at the Orange Peel a couple months ago; Pinback played a few days later but unfortunately I was on call. Lame.

Ok, that's my epistle. PM with further questions. Or ask diosa.
 
I didn't get in to Vandy, nor did I know anything about the EP. However, I think one of the intentions of the 3rd year is to really let you be totally involved in your work, like those language immersion programs. For my part, I'm a little bit scatterbrained so if I were doing research at the same time as my basic sciences coursework, I might feel a little overwhelmed. Not only that, but I would imagine certain things are tough to do in 4-5 hour chunks after morning classes. Just a suspicion.
 
I'm a 4th year here at Duke and want to make sure you all don't have any crazy misperceptions about Duke or med school in general.

FIRST--and this is very important--any top tier school is going to give you chances to excel and become a great physician and get a great spot in the match. Other than dividing schools into tiers (tiers of like 20 schools at a time), rankings mean nothing. Even then, if you do well in medical school and on the boards, you can get a great residency. So you should pick the place that matches your needs for living and learning.

1) "Duke has a long, intense first year with no summer breaks."

The first year is 11 months long--maybe 2 months longer than a traditional curriculum. We do not receive all the material that a student in a 2-year basic science curriculum receives. Not only is the material condensed, but trimmed down. However, when I was studying for step 1, I realized that I had seen ALL of that material during my first year classes. During the first year, you never are scheduled for more than 36 hours a week, which means you spend much less than that even in lectures. In talking with friends at other medical schools, I never felt like I was working any harder than any of them. The summer after the first year is only a month long, but most students are very excited to get onto the wards and be done with classroom work. We don't *need* the summer for any academic endeavors because we all get the opportunity to do research or second degree programs in the 3rd year.

2) "Duke is a very stuffy, malignant place."

There are a lot of people here who are among the best at what they do and who continue to work extremely hard because they love what they do and pride themselves on excellence. Any role model here will inevitably set a very high standard merely by example. Duke Surgery, in particular, has a history of having several abrasive personalities (but what surgery department doesn't?), but just over the past three years I have seen a tremendous shift in the personality of the department and its focus on teamwork and medical education. When you wake up in the morning on an exhausting rotation and think about the people you will see on your team when you get to the hospital and smile, thinking "Can't wait to get back to work with Dr.____," you know you are in a good place. I have always found confidence here at Duke, but almost never have I found any haughtiness that outsiders assume exists here.

3) "Duke is a research school. You should be into research if you come here."

Haha, I couldn't tell you how many times my classmates have said "I hate research" or "I'd never do research for a career." What Duke really is is a school that sees exposure to academic pursuits outside the traditional four years of medical school as being integral to developing physicians that will be leaders, whether it be in research or politics or management or healthcare. Some 40% of my class did basic science research. Another 20% did clinical research, 20-30% or more began second degree programs. At least 25% of the class did their work away from Duke, with more than a handful doing it in another country. That third year is more than just a "research year." It is a change of pace from the first two intense years of medical school and the opportunity to explore something academically as well as personally (extracurriculars, hobbies, volunteer projects, etc.).

4. "Duke matches well." "Duke doesn't match well."

Well the former is true, the latter is not. People here usually get their first or second choice among very very strong programs. A lot of people after being here for four years LOVE Duke and want to stay to do their residency here because the residency programs here in many fields are incredibly strong. Even if you want to rank JH and Mass General at the very top of the top tiers, I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that you would not get equal training here at Duke. I would say that I am a slightly above average student in my class and I know that on the interview trail so far I have been very very well received by everyone.

5. "Durham is a crappy place to live."

North Carolina is a great state to live in. The weather is temperate, we have a ton of outdoor recreation from one end of the state to the other, and while you need a car to get around, you can find *anything* you want to do. I have been to plays, symphonies, rock concerts, clubs, bars, discos (mistake), festivals (world beer festival is here annually), and more. You can find these things not just once a year, but weekly. Downtown Durham is undergoing some tremendous revitalization that will make it a much more fun place to be, but even if you don't like downtown Durham much, Chapel Hill and Raleigh are in no ways too far to go for a quick evening out on the town. Durham admittedly has a lot of poverty, which has equated to having many areas with low-income housing spread throughout the city. Poverty begets crime, sadly enough. That being said, it is still easy to find affordable housing in nice, safe areas. Having grown up in the northeast, I feel ten times safer here in Durham than I would in the Philly, Baltimore, or DC areas.

I have not for a single moment regretted my decision to come here for medical school. I have loved the school and the people very much and have loved living in North Carolina these past four years. When I think about residency, I am very confident that Duke has prepared me and that I will be successful coming from here.
 
The biggest environmental failure here for me has been the lack of music, which of course will be better in Nashtown. However, there is the Orange Peel out in Asheville which is a pretty awesome little venue which attracts some of the names that you music snobs might recognize. I saw Rilo Kiley at the Orange Peel a couple months ago; Pinback played a few days later but unfortunately I was on call. Lame.

Really? Lack of music in the Durham area? I'm surprised to hear someone say that, as I've heard quite the opposite from lots of people, and have been quite pleased with my experience here.

From what I've heard, The Cat's Cradle in Chapel Hill (Carboro really) is a nationally known venue, and Chapel Hill is thought of as a pretty big music city for touring bands. I've been to lots of smaller shows there, and have seen some big names in the area too. Sure, it's not Nashville, but few cities are. There's also Disco Rodeo in Raleigh, and Lincoln Theatre. And there's The Pour House in Raleigh. There's Go in Chapel Hill. The list goes on and on. And as you mentioned, The Orange Peel is great too, but a bit of a drive from here. Plus, if you're talking mega huge shows, there's Alltel Pavilion, RBC Center, Greensboro Coliseum, and Kokobooth Amphitheatre (really cool outdoor amphitheatre). Check out the websites of these venues and get on the mailing lists and you'll see that there's TONS of great shows in the triangle area.

I've seen all kinds of interesting shows here, some big some small, from Matchbox 20, John Mayer, Tom Petty, Norah Jones, Kenny Chesney, and the like, to more obscure artists like Jason Mraz, Badly Drawn Boy, Duncan Shiek, Eisley, etc.
 
Hmm. Maybe I just haven't kept a close enough eye out. . . then again I went from the bay area to LA to here. 😉 That might have introduced a little bit of bias to my prior statements.

EDIT: Oooh, Yo La Tengo on Jan 10. . .
 
i didn't apply to duke.. but what is so crazy about their secondary?? what are the questions like? this thread made me so curious!
 
I just have to cosign on the Cat's Cradle thing. Love that place. Most of my favorite shows have been there (most especially Animal Collective and Of Montreal).
 
I just have to cosign on the Cat's Cradle thing. Love that place. Most of my favorite shows have been there (most especially Animal Collective and Of Montreal).

I was so annoyed that I didn't go to Of Montreal... they are the freakin best live.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I just miss Bottom of the Hill in SF. . . or Slim's. . . *sigh*

Ok, I'm spoiled.

But now that I know better (and am no longer on Surgery) I shall have to venture out more.

Females: you never cease to surprise me. I would have put the odds of any other dukemeddies (apart from DWat or SJ) knowing who any relatively obscure bands are at slim to none. How do you feel about Animal Collective? They're not my personal style but . . . sort of in the same vein. I'm more of a Decemberists/Iron & Wine/Camera Obscura slow-and-folksy type lately.
 
i didn't apply to duke.. but what is so crazy about their secondary?? what are the questions like? this thread made me so curious!

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooong. And multiple.

And hard. Like "please describe an experience that has been humbling for you" or "please decribe a situation in which you had to make an ethical decision" etc.
 
I've seen all kinds of interesting shows here, some big some small, from Matchbox 20, John Mayer, Tom Petty, Norah Jones, Kenny Chesney, and the like, to more obscure artists like Jason Mraz, Badly Drawn Boy, Duncan Shiek, Eisley, etc.

Females: you never cease to surprise me. I would have put the odds of any other dukemeddies (apart from DWat or SJ) knowing who any relatively obscure bands are at slim to none. How do you feel about Animal Collective? They're not my personal style but . . . sort of in the same vein. I'm more of a Decemberists/Iron & Wine/Camera Obscura slow-and-folksy type lately.

What??? I'm no music snob by a long shot, but Jason Mraz, Badly Drawn Boy, and Duncan Sheik definitely aren't obscure. And The Decemberists and Iron & Wine, too? The Decemberists aren't obscure; they were referenced on a recent episode of Friday Night Lights! (Which... is kind of an obscure TV show. Hmm.) Well, at any rate, not like they're Sufjan Stevens or John Vanderslice--the only two artists I've ever listened to who it seems like no one has heard of. There are plenty of music afficionados in our class, I think. I know husky's one, at least, although he's probably up to something cooler than hanging around SDN right now.

I'm completely oblivious to the music scene in Durham, so after looking up the schedules for all those places you guys mentioned, I was excited to see that Carbon Leaf is coming to town. Man, I thought no one outside of Virginia had ever heard of those guys.
 
Who in the world are these bands? Are they indi rock or something else that I don't like?

I've driven to Charlotte in the middle of the week three times to see a concert (Korn twice and Avenged Sevenfold once), saw Orgy in Jacksonville, Sevendust in Raleigh, etc. Not to mention the monthly visits to Tir na Nog in Raleigh to see Paddy and Bill. At Duke, I've seen The Roots, Nappy Roots, 2 Skinnee J's, Kanye West, and The Pharcyde. And crappy bands like Collective Soul, Better than Ezra, and Wilco that I couldn't avoid at last day of classes. The Triangle really is a great place for music.
 
I would go for Duke.... great school/hospital, innovative program
 
Females: you never cease to surprise me. I would have put the odds of any other dukemeddies (apart from DWat or SJ) knowing who any relatively obscure bands are at slim to none. How do you feel about Animal Collective? They're not my personal style but . . . sort of in the same vein. I'm more of a Decemberists/Iron & Wine/Camera Obscura slow-and-folksy type lately.

I'm more of a hip hop, 80s pop, cheesy love songs type of person... but I do enjoy good, fun music (and that is definitely Of Montreal). The only reason I know about indie band is because of my best friends who are indie to the max (complete with wearing Vans and long hair and everything). So I've seen Cold War Kids, Of Montreal, and Octopus Project live before, and I've heard of groups like the Decemberists, Mountain Goats, and some other random groups that escape me now... but I pretty much have no idea what you are talking about 🙂 There are definitely a good number of ppl in our class who do know about this stuff, tho. I know you are trying really hard to be my friend, but I'm just not cool enough 🙂meanie🙂.
 
What??? I'm no music snob by a long shot, but Jason Mraz, Badly Drawn Boy, and Duncan Sheik definitely aren't obscure. And The Decemberists and Iron & Wine, too? The Decemberists aren't obscure; they were referenced on a recent episode of Friday Night Lights! (Which... is kind of an obscure TV show. Hmm.) Well, at any rate, not like they're Sufjan Stevens or John Vanderslice--the only two artists I've ever listened to who it seems like no one has heard of. There are plenty of music afficionados in our class, I think. I know husky's one, at least, although he's probably up to something cooler than hanging around SDN right now.

Hey, I didn't say I thought TommyGunn's mentioned-bands were obscure. And the Decemberists still carry the flag for "indie" even if they are pretty well-known nowadays, I would say. C'mon, who else uses the word "dirigible" in a song? Even with a main-y label and a multiple-show stint on Colbert. . . I think that counts.

I mean, all of these ARE relatively obscure for the majority of our Jay-Z/Kelly Clarkson lovin' contemporaries. . . but I was trying to minimize my snobbery. 🙂

Sufjan ftw. Although my "Top Albums of 2007" definitely runs closer to Band of Horses, Pinback, and Rogue Wave. I was unimpressed by Arcade Fire's new effort (It's still better than MOST crap that's put out nowadays, but nowhere near "Funeral") and *really* unimpressed by both Animal Collective and Panda Bear, BOTH of which are being all kinds of up-talked on PopMatters and Pitchfork. Bleh.

*shameless plug* but clearly the best new female solo artist for this year is Sara Bareilles. Go get "Little Voice" RIGHT NOW before I shoot you all with love darts and bunny arrows as punishment.
 
Burnsie: Gross. I'd MUCH rather see Wilco than Kanye. . .and KORN? Since when are you an angry 14 year old boy with oversized black T-shirts who refuses to shower?

... I think I just answered my own question.

😉

Females: That's ok. We forgive you due to your stylin'-ness.
 
Burnsie: Gross. I'd MUCH rather see Wilco than Kanye. . .and KORN? Since when are you an angry 14 year old boy with oversized black T-shirts who refuses to shower?
Kanye West was also a last day of classes band...unavoidable. But he's not bad. And Korn is awesome. Actually, it's entertaining when Matt and I have gone to Korn and Avenged Sevenfold concerts and everyone is wearing all black and silver chains and we're wearing jeans and a Duke sweatshirt. We decided that next time we would try to play the part a little better, and he'll finally go in the mosh pit. I'm going to need a lot of dark makeup...
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Top Bottom