Vanderbilt or UT Austin Honors

[doc67]

We are Texas residents - my son is trying to decide between the Health Science Honors program at UT Austin and Vanderbilt - he prefers the college experience and facilities at Vanderbilt but he is concerned that Vanderbilt seems to have grade deflation and may be difficult to maintain a 3.6 -3.7 GPA - anybody have any thoughts on Premed at Vanderbilt ?

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[NickNaylor]

Vandy. I think more opportunities for success are available there, and if grade deflation is really an issue then med schools will know about it.

 

[BadHorse]

Longhorns, all the way. It's a great school and you can't beat it for the in-state price. It's huge with tons of resources and an amazing environment, really the ultimate college experience. Austin is the best college town I've ever seen and letting off steam is important for a pre-med. Also, the women at UT Austin... the women, man. If you want attractive grandchildren the choice is clear.

 

[NickNaylor]

Longhorns, all the way. It's a great school and you can't beat it for the in-state price. It's huge with tons of resources and an amazing environment, really the ultimate college experience. Austin is the best college town I've ever seen and letting off steam is important for a pre-med. Also, the women at UT Austin... the women, man. If you want attractive grandchildren the choice is clear.

You clearly have never been to Vanderbilt and/or Nashville.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

You clearly have never been to Vanderbilt and/or Nashville.

👍. We have a high percentage of attractive women in undergrad.

Vanderbilt does have grade deflation, but I've talked to a few ADCOMs (NYU, Vanderbilt, University of FL, and others) when they were visiting here, and they were all aware. So he might get a 3.5 instead of a 3.7, but there are many other things that might make it worth it for him depending on his personal interests, and the GPA will be looked at in context. That being said, UT-Austin is a very good school, and Austin is a good city as well. Need-based aid doesn't get much better than it is here, but if you don't qualify you can expect a hefty bill every semester.

 

[Suncrusher]

Being premed at Vandy is hard. It's just like any other top school. The caliber of the average Vandy student is high. Their premed advising is pretty good. Just like at other top schools, your son would be competing against students who, by and large, will get into medical school. I was vandy c/o 2010, and out of the c/o 2010 premeds I knew (the serious premeds, who made it through all the premed classes without changing majors), all of them got into med school except one. Out of the c/o 2011 premeds I knew, all of them have gotten into med school. The competition in some classes was pretty hard, but it helped me perform great on the MCAT without even studying : )

I'm really doubtful about how much Vandy's grade deflating policies were taken into account by application screeners. I got 10 MD interviews with 3.3 sGPA, but all the other parts of my app were pretty good, so it's hard to know. All the advisors at Vandy constantly talked about how Vandy's reputation would help improve my GPA in the eyes of app screeners, but I have serious doubts about how much this actually happened. For instance, when I talked to the Dean of Admissions at Vandy to discuss why my app got rejected and what I could do to improve, he flat-out told me that my 3.5 GPA was too low to be anywhere near competitive for them (considering that I don't have an amazing non-trad story). To me, that definitely doesn't sound like getting an extra .1 or .2 tacked on to my GPA due to going to a school with grade deflation. Especially considering that the Vanderbilt med school usually loves to accept Vandy undergrads.

I can't agree enough with the above poster about the financial aid though. Vanderbilt has a high sticker price but then gives amazing financial aid such that I only paid less than 10% of it.

You clearly have never been to Vanderbilt and/or Nashville.

Vanderbilt = women in sundresses 99% of the time

 

[once]

I personally would choose the cheaper school (probably UT unless he got a scholarship at Vandy). It makes it easier for both the parents and the student. I chose a private school and feel that I could have succeeded just as much had I went to a state school.

 

[Suncrusher]

I chose a private school and feel that I could have succeeded just as much had I went to a state school.

I completely agree.

Regarding your other point, if you are going to choose your undergrad only based on cost, you have to wait until you get your financial aid package at vandy because it makes a huuuuuge difference.

 

[NickNaylor]

I completely agree.

Regarding your other point, if you are going to choose only based on cost, you have to wait until you get your financial aid package at vandy because it makes a huuuuuge difference.

Well damn. I'm somewhat regretting not completing the financial aid application then.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

I completely agree.

Regarding your other point, if you are going to choose your undergrad only based on cost, you have to wait until you get your financial aid package at vandy because it makes a huuuuuge difference.

This true. My parents were telling me not to go to Vandy when they saw the 50k+ sticker price. I told them to be patient. They were then singing a different tune when Vandy offered 55k a year in fin. aid.

As far as adding points to GPA, there's no way to put a concrete number on it, but I highly doubt the rigor of the school is ignored. It sounds like you did well with 10 interviews though 👍. I did talk to a dean of admissions from one of my state schools, and she said she thought a 3.4 here could easily be a 3.9 at some of my state undergrads. I thought that was going a bit far, but this is what she said

Most of the regular classes here are manageable, but competition in the pre-reqs is brutal. It seems we use the first pre-reqs, Bio/Gen Chem, as weed-outs, as opposed to most places where Orgo seems to be the weed-out.

 

[tyronedamone]

We are Texas residents - my son is trying to decide between the Health Science Honors program at UT Austin and Vanderbilt - he prefers the college experience and facilities at Vanderbilt but he is concerned that Vanderbilt seems to have grade deflation and may be difficult to maintain a 3.6 -3.7 GPA - anybody have any thoughts on Premed at Vanderbilt ?

Personally, I wouldn't make a decision about which school to attend based on the ability to maintain a certain gpa. I currently go to Vanderbilt and managed to be accepted to my IS school without an astronomically high one. If your son likes vandy more and feels like it is a better fit, then he should go. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time in Nashville and I feel that vandy's curriculum has done a great job of preparing me for med school.

Your son will receive a fantastic education at whatever school he chooses, and as long as he puts in the work I'm sure he'll be successful at either one. Congrats on the acceptances and I wish you guys the best of luck.

 

[gatorade848]

holy crap this thread just brings out all the vandy SDNers lol... to be honest UT is a great school and you dont really miss out on anything at either school.

about my opinion on vandy; vandy girls are hawt and premed courses at vandy is really hard. my intro bio class had no curve at all and the physics department sucks ballz; physics is what is dragging down my sgpa. However, inorganic/organic chemistry is really easy in comparison. Then again I wasnt really motivated/not sure i wanted to be premed first two years of college that probably has a lot to do with why I didnt do well in bio/phy lol. I recently meet with Dr. Baum vandy's premed advisor and he wasnt concerned about my low gpa (with steep upward curve) at all; based on this I would guess a lot of med school admissions know the rigor of vandy courses and judge applicants accordingly

 

[Suncrusher]

holy crap this thread just brings out all the vandy SDNers lol... to be honest UT is a great school and you dont really miss out on anything at either school.

about my opinion on vandy; vandy girls are hawt and premed courses at vandy is really hard. my intro bio class had no curve at all and the physics department sucks ballz; physics is what is dragging down my sgpa. However, inorganic/organic chemistry is really easy in comparison. Then again I wasnt really motivated/not sure i wanted to be premed first two years of college that probably has a lot to do with why I didnt do well in bio/phy lol. I recently meet with Dr. Baum vandy's premed advisor and he wasnt concerned about my low gpa (with steep upward curve) at all; based on this I would guess a lot of med school admissions know the rigor of vandy courses and judge applicants accordingly

Dude, the one and only thing that I hate about Dr. Baum, who otherwise does an amazing job running the premed advising, is that he was totally laid-back about my grades. In retrospect, I needed him to scare the crap out of me and help motivate me to improve my GPA. Instead, he was like:

"3 C's in premed classes? Pfffffft! Nooo problem!! That won't keep you out of med school!"


...which was true, but it took me 2 years to get in and was like 500 times harder than it would have been otherwise. Don't become neurotic, but I definitely recommend being at least a little more concerned about your future grades than Dr. Baum is. Med schools know Vandy is hard, but there are a LOT of other hard schools too. Do you really think kids at Vandy get any sort of GPA bump at med schools that all the kids from Berkeley or Stanford or a couple dozen of other very respected schools don't get? I don't. There are tons of applicants each year from schools that are just as hard as vandy. Just be thankful you have the opportunity to go to a school that is respected for how hard it is, rather than one that is very hard but doesn't get any recognition for it (I can think of several).

I 100% agree with TyroneDamone: if your son is willing to develop good study habits (a necessity for med schools anyways), then he shouldn't be hesitant to attend Vandy due to GPA issues. He sounds like he is really leaning towards Vandy but is just a little nervous about it. Good luck everyone 👍

 

[slammer922]

6th street. Nuff said.

UT has everything you could ever want for for growth and diversity.

 

[Brachyury]

What happen if your son decides he actually wants to go to grad school in English or law school or work in consulting? In any of these cases, it is far, far more adventageous to have a degree from Vanderbilt than UT.

 

[BooRadley85]

if he's worried about maintaining a 3.6-3.7 as you say, drop the honors. It doesn't help all that much and may not be worth the hit to the gpa.

 

[b-real]

What happen if your son decides he actually wants to go to grad school in English or law school or work in consulting? In any of these cases, it is far, far more adventageous to have a degree from Vanderbilt than UT.

That's crap, GPA and LSAT are the prime determinants of law school admission. The name of the law school matters, and UT's is in the top-20. There is no way an undergraduate degree is "far, far" more advantageous from Vandy.

 

[BadHorse]

You clearly have never been to Vanderbilt and/or Nashville.

No disrespect to Vandy, but...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/18/playboy-party-schools_n_542049.html

OP, if you're only leaning towards UT because you're afraid of grade deflation... don't. I transferred from a relatively uncompetitive school to one that's considered one of the most cut-throat, GPA destroying, gunner-filled schools in the nation, and I actually found the latter to be easier. My GPA went up. Don't believe the hype.

 

[rhcarolina]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/18/playboy-party-schools_n_542049.html

When selecting an undergraduate college, I've heard one should not pick where to attend based on US News rankings. In my opinion, their rankings have some merit. Not a lot, but some. The Playboy's ranking, however, should probably never be consulted.

 

[Brachyury]

That's crap, GPA and LSAT are the prime determinants of law school admission. The name of the law school matters, and UT's is in the top-20. There is no way an undergraduate degree is "far, far" more advantageous from Vandy.

What about grad school and consulting? The point of my original post is that the OP's son might change his mind about what he wants to do, and in many fields, a Vandy education and networking will open many doors.

 

[BadHorse]

When selecting an undergraduate college, I've heard one should not pick where to attend based on US News rankings. In my opinion, their rankings have some merit. Not a lot, but some. The Playboy's ranking, however, should probably never be consulted.

You need to reevaluate your priorities.

 

[slammer922]

What happen if your son decides he actually wants to go to grad school in English or law school or work in consulting? In any of these cases, it is far, far more adventageous to have a degree from Vanderbilt than UT.

Haha... wow. That is so false.

OP the point is this....

UT Business is top 20
UT Law is top 20
Best chance for med school is Texas.

Clearly UT is the best choice.

 

[b-real]

What about grad school and consulting? The point of my original post is that the OP's son might change his mind about what he wants to do, and in many fields, a Vandy education and networking will open many doors.

Yes, because grad school and consulting can only be entered through Vandy. You are aware that McCombs is a very highly ranked business school and students have ample connections in the business and consulting worlds, right? The Graduate School is also strong in many fields. I don't deny that Vanderbilt will open doors, but you're dissmissive of UT's ability to do the same.

 

[Maverick03]

Both are great schools, but I think it's a little unfair to UT to discount its great programs because it's a public school. Vanderbilt has a name, but so does the University of Texas.

As far as opportunities....

UT Law - 14th, Vandy - 16th
UT Business - 17th, Vandy - 28th
UT Engineering, for undergrads, is one of the top programs in the country.

Texas is an academic and a social powerhouse. Highly ranked programs, a diverse student body, a great college experience (football, etc.), and, of course, 6th Street.

Not to mention, for premeds, you have a plethora of good in-state med schools. Baylor and UT-Southwestern are great.

Just to clarify, I'm not knocking on Vandy, but Texas is a great place to be an undergraduate. And, you could always go get that private school name for medical school (I graduated from Texas, and I'm headed to a top-20 med school up north).

 

[TexasPhysician]

A 3.7 at UT > 3.5 at Vandy.

If grade-deflation is that significant, I would be at UT. Otherwise the schools are both prestigious. Pretty much even. Go to the cheaper school or the one your child feels more comfortable at.

 

[slammer922]

Both are great schools, but I think it's a little unfair to UT to discount its great programs because it's a public school. Vanderbilt has a name, but so does the University of Texas.

As far as opportunities....

UT Law - 14th, Vandy - 16th
UT Business - 17th, Vandy - 28th
UT Engineering, for undergrads, is one of the top programs in the country.

Texas is an academic and a social powerhouse. Highly ranked programs, a diverse student body, a great college experience (football, etc.), and, of course, 6th Street.

Not to mention, for premeds, you have a plethora of good in-state med schools. Baylor and UT-Southwestern are great.

Just to clarify, I'm not knocking on Vandy, but Texas is a great place to be an undergraduate. And, you could always go get that private school name for medical school (I graduated from Texas, and I'm headed to a top-20 med school up north).

Is there an echo in the building?
I kid & well said mav. & hookem

 

[TexasPhysician]

Vandy. I think more opportunities for success are available there, and if grade deflation is really an issue then med schools will know about it.

There is no manual for med school admission departments about average grades at every undergraduate institution. TX med schools (one of which I attended) will keep close tabs with TX undergrads because they receive most applications from TX schools (they are public and 90+% in state). While Vandy is a good school, admissions departments in TX will likely not scale any gpa from Vandy.

 

[b-real]

There is no manual for med school admission departments about average grades at every undergraduate institution. TX med schools (one of which I attended) will keep close tabs with TX undergrads because they receive most applications from TX schools (they are public and 90+% in state). While Vandy is a good school, admissions departments in TX will likely not scale any gpa from Vandy.

Good point, and sorry, but the Vanderbilt name will not put someone who is otherwise unacceptable over the top as far as med school admissions go. Getting in to med school, much like doing well on the MCAT or USMLE, is mainly about the student's individual effort, not the name of the school.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

There is no manual for med school admission departments about average grades at every undergraduate institution. TX med schools (one of which I attended) will keep close tabs with TX undergrads because they receive most applications from TX schools (they are public and 90+% in state). While Vandy is a good school, admissions departments in TX will likely not scale any gpa from Vandy.

There is no manual, but they can see trends in applications such as the average GPA from a particular institution's applicants. If this is from a tough school, and seems to be lower on average, an inference can be made. I highly doubt there is an actual scale as you said as well, but it would be foolish to not take varying factors into context. I transferred here, and there is a noticeable difference in rigor.

Admission offers to Vandy undergrads from TX schools so far this year:

Baylor: 50 applied-9 accepted
UT Southwestern: 26 applied- 8 accepted
UT Houston: 28 applied- 8 accepted
UT-San Antonio: 28 applied-10 accepted
TX A&M: 23 applied- 5 accepted
Texas Tech: 19 applied- 5 accepted

I don't have the stats for these students, but they seem to like Vandy students (at least the TX residents) well enough.

 

[Jolie South]

I say go where you'll pay the least. Both are good schools and will give you a great education.

Being burdened with undergraduate debt is not advantageous in this day and age. The cost/benefit ratio is just too high. Also, after you complete a graduate program in anything, what undergrad institution you attended will be practically meaningless.

 

[Hoody]

Longhorns, all the way...

Finally, we agree!!! 🙂

If Longhorn football isn't reason enough, South by Southwest should seal the deal. 👍

 

[TexasPhysician]

There is no manual, but they can see trends in applications such as the average GPA from a particular institution's applicants. If this is from a tough school, and seems to be lower on average, an inference can be made. I highly doubt there is an actual scale as you said as well, but it would be foolish to not take varying factors into context. I transferred here, and there is a noticeable difference in rigor.

Admission offers to Vandy undergrads from TX schools so far this year:

Baylor: 50 applied-9 accepted
UT Southwestern: 26 applied- 8 accepted
UT Houston: 28 applied- 8 accepted
UT-San Antonio: 28 applied-10 accepted
TX A&M: 23 applied- 5 accepted
Texas Tech: 19 applied- 5 accepted

I don't have the stats for these students, but they seem to like Vandy students (at least the TX residents) well enough.

Unless you have a link for those numbers from a verified source, they appear complete BS. I'm not saying Vandy isn't a good school or that Vandy students don't come to TX, but those numbers are hogwash.

Excluding Baylor, you have 36 being accepted through the TMDSAS application (TX application service). The TMDSAS process is centralized and is relatively cheap for each additional application you send through it. I have a VERY hard time believing that almost all Vandy applicants select only a couple TMDSAS schools to apply toward, because it would be stupid (and Vandy students aren't stupid). A vast majority of TMDSAS applicants apply to all TMDSAS programs (at least the TX residents). Some will exclude a few (TCOM more common than others). Almost all OOS applicants will apply to UTSW because they are notorious for converting all OOS matriculants to in-state after MSI.

36 students are accepted with none of the popular TX public schools receiving more than 28 applications. Suuuuuuuurrrrreeeeee.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I almost bet that Vandy is including people with multiple acceptances. So 28 applicants and 10 people holding acceptance letters - 35%ish. I'm not doing the math but maybe that is what your school meant.

 

[Suncrusher]

Unless you have a link for those numbers from a verified source, they appear complete BS. I'm not saying Vandy isn't a good school or that Vandy students don't come to TX, but those numbers are hogwash.

I'm guessing they might come from the giant binder in the premed advising office where anyone can go look at how successful/unsuccessful vandy applicants are at various schools.

I almost bet that Vandy is including people with multiple acceptances. So 28 applicants and 10 people holding acceptance letters - 35%ish. I'm not doing the math but maybe that is what your school meant.

Well, obviously!

But even if you assume the worst (that there are at least 5 students holding acceptances to every school on that list and considerable overlap amongst the other acceptances also), the success rates are still nothing to scoff at in my opinion (even though I've been trying this entire time to disagree that Vandy students are given any particular leeway by adcoms in terms of GPA).

It's just accepted student data. The idea behind that binder is supposedly to help the non-SDN applicants get an idea of schools that might be a good idea to apply to. Personally, I think that is stupid, because applicants should apply to schools at which they are competitive applicants, not schools at which other Vandy students were competitive applicants.

 

[doc67]

Thanks to all of you for the great feedback - we really appreciate it - both schools are great choices and have their pros and cons - cost wise Vandy is going to cost us about 35K a year more - whether it is worth it for the smaller class size , quality of professors , atmosphere ... we will have to decide - his goal is definitely med school so we have to decide which option will give him the best chance while at the same time enjoying his college experience

This is some recent UT data

http://cns.utexas.edu/images/stories/health_professions/MedStats2009.pdf


Thanks !

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Unless you have a link for those numbers from a verified source, they appear complete BS. I'm not saying Vandy isn't a good school or that Vandy students don't come to TX, but those numbers are hogwash.

Wow you're quick to dismiss things that you have no personal knowledge of. Yes, this probably includes multiple acceptances. My point wasn't to demonstrate some sort of superiority we have, but merely to suggest that TX residents do fine here despite not attending a TX school.

Vandy is going to cost us about 35K a year more

Make sure to double check this, but if true then I would highly recommend your son going to UT. Nice area, probably a top 5 in program in biological sciences, and your family will save 140k. I just happened to really not like any of my in state schools, and Vandy turned out to be just as cheap. If I'd had a UT-Austin, UVA, or Berkeley as an IS option it would have been a harder decision.

 

[gatorade848]

Wow you're quick to dismiss things that you have no personal knowledge of. Yes, this probably includes multiple acceptances. My point wasn't to demonstrate some sort of superiority we have, but merely to suggest that TX residents do fine here despite not attending a TX school.



Make sure to double check this, but if true then I would highly recommend your son going to UT. Nice area, probably a top 5 in program in biological sciences, and your family will save 140k. I just happened to really not like any of my in state schools, and Vandy turned out to be just as cheap. If I'd had a UT-Austin, UVA, or Berkeley as an IS option it would have been a harder decision.

vandy is great college but if its really 35k more expensive I would too recommend UT; UT is great college, you wont lose out on anything. When I was applying college I choose vandy because it made most financial/educational sense. I got into michigan, emory, alabama (bama resident), and auburn and I choose vandy because of great financial aid package I received.

 

[Suncrusher]

cost wise Vandy is going to cost us about 35K a year more

So you've already received your final financial aid package from Vandy? If so, definitely go to UT. And congrats on being well-off enough that you aren't getting much financial aid even from one of the most generous schools 😛

 

[MayoorBust]

This true. My parents were telling me not to go to Vandy when they saw the 50k+ sticker price. I told them to be patient. They were then singing a different tune when Vandy offered 55k a year in fin. aid.

As far as adding points to GPA, there's no way to put a concrete number on it, but I highly doubt the rigor of the school is ignored. It sounds like you did well with 10 interviews though 👍. I did talk to a dean of admissions from one of my state schools, and she said she thought a 3.4 here could easily be a 3.9 at some of my state undergrads. I thought that was going a bit far, but this is what she said

Most of the regular classes here are manageable, but competition in the pre-reqs is brutal. It seems we use the first pre-reqs, Bio/Gen Chem, as weed-outs, as opposed to most places where Orgo seems to be the weed-out.

She is lying to you. Everthing else being equal the Vandy name will not take you far in this competitive process, at least not THAT far


Get the scores, ECs and everything will work out itself.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

She is lying to you. Everthing else being equal the Vandy name will not take you far in this competitive process, at least not THAT far


Get the scores, ECs and everything will work out itself.

I thought that was going a bit far as I said. I think she was just reiterating that they do at least look at the rigor of the school when evaluating GPA. Still, as a transfer student from my state school to Vandy, her estimate was not far off just so you know. Most people don't have the perspective from both sides that I have.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I'm guessing they might come from the giant binder in the premed advising office where anyone can go look at how successful/unsuccessful vandy applicants are at various schools.




Well, obviously!

But even if you assume the worst (that there are at least 5 students holding acceptances to every school on that list and considerable overlap amongst the other acceptances also), the success rates are still nothing to scoff at in my opinion (even though I've been trying this entire time to disagree that Vandy students are given any particular leeway by adcoms in terms of GPA).

It's just accepted student data. The idea behind that binder is supposedly to help the non-SDN applicants get an idea of schools that might be a good idea to apply to. Personally, I think that is stupid, because applicants should apply to schools at which they are competitive applicants, not schools at which other Vandy students were competitive applicants.

Myself and at least 3 of my friends also had acceptances from every school on that list. As a TX resident with decent scores, many students will have at least a few choices. I'm not trying to brag, but instead show that those numbers are not impressive (especially if those Vandy students are TX residents). 35% acceptance rate from Vandy would be low. My TX undergrad had an acceptance rate of 90% with an n - 30 or so (smaller private school).

I'm just saying that you need to be very careful when you look at numbers. Don't be fooled. Likely Vandy and UT have similar success rates. Another way of looking at this is that Vandy will give you no benefit over UT so go where you are happier.

 

[b-real]

I thought that was going a bit far as I said. I think she was just reiterating that they do at least look at the rigor of the school when evaluating GPA. Still, as a transfer student from my state school to Vandy, her estimate was not far off just so you know. Most people don't have the perspective from both sides that I have.

Unless you've gone to both UT and Vanderbilt, you don't have that perspective, either. There are rigorous state schools as well as lax private schools. The rampant grade inflation at most of the Ivys comes to mind. Rigor at any school also varies by department/major. Compare Plan II Honors at UT to anything Vandy has to offer in that regard.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Unless you've gone to both UT and Vanderbilt, you don't have that perspective, either. There are rigorous state schools as well as lax private schools. The rampant grade inflation at most of the Ivys comes to mind. Rigor at any school also varies by department/major. Compare Plan II Honors at UT to anything Vandy has to offer in that regard.

I agree. If you look, you will notice that I was referring to my in state schools, and a conversation I had with an admissions dean from an IS medical school. I have no doubt there are rigorous state schools. In fact, at some it may be even harder due to high competition combined with class sizes 3x that of rigorous private schools. In any case, I wish the OP's son good luck in his choice , and hope he enjoys his time wherever he ends up.