Various ways to financially manage COA

[mmchick]

Hi everyone - as a soon-to-be M1, something I've been stressing myself out with lately is the actual crunching of numbers and potential size of debt upon graduation and after residency. I know this topic has been drilled to the ground and there are various resources/threads on this topic, but I wanted to open the floor to gather different perspectives from either current medical students, residents/fellows, and attendings on how they generally managed their financial situation during/after school and how the repayment process has been for them. Also any tips for someone in my starting position or things/opportunities to consider that might not become available until later would be great to hear about.

For instance, a mention of whether you took loans (and rough estimate of how much that covered the 4 years of COA vs other income sources), enrolled in fed programs such as HPSP, NHSC, etc., received significant scholarships from school etc. and how manageable you felt your financial situation was during any of the time-points in your journey would be helpful.

I have a general idea of how I'm going to manage the expected amount of loans I'll take, but hearing other people's experiences and how they went through with it would be helpful/insightful for mentally preparing myself for this drastic change in my current financial health.

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[throwaway1000000]

Didn't take any loans out but from what I read, you get decent amount of loan money for living expenses and some say they don't even use all of it.

Not sure about any programs but if you want to save the most amount of money:
1) live with roommates-find the cheapest rent possible but in safe location. Often times, these will be apartments rented out mainly to medical students and grad students near your campus
2) avoid buying a car if you already don't have one-live within walking distance to campus. Especially the first 2 years when you won't be needing it much
3) learn to cook right now

that is pretty much it. You can save a lot of money if you can make the sacrifices to follow these things. If you can't, go ahead take as much loan as you need but prepare to pay it back with interest.

Edit: changing exorbitant to decent because it seems like you might not get as much as I thought you did

 

[Tiran145]

Didn't take any loans out but from what I read, you get exorbitant amount of loan money for living expenses and won't be using it all.
Not sure about any programs but if you want to save the most amount of money:
1) live with roommates-find the cheapest rent possible but in safe location. Often times, these will be apartments rented out mainly to medical students and grad students near your campus
2) avoid buying a car if you already don't have one-live within walking distance to campus. Especially the first 2 years when you won't be needing it much
3) learn to cook right now

that is pretty much it. You can save a lot of money if you can make the sacrifices to follow these things. If you can't, go ahead take as much loan as you need but prepare to pay it back with interest.

You do not get an exorbitant amount of loans. Full COA is enough to live frugally.

 

[mmchick]

You do not get an exorbitant amount of loans. Full COA is enough to live frugally.

Yea I was gonna comment back saying with 60-70K in tuition alone, 90K only leaves about 20K/year to live off which is a HUGE pay cut to what I currently make. I am planning on all the things this poster mentioned (aside from the car as my school absolutely requires this day 1) and still finding myself brainstorming what else I can cut out of my life currently to keep my budget manageable.

Thankfully, I’ve saved and invested smartly and have a good little chunk of supplemental savings to still manage the few fun hobbies I want to continually engage in, but without this, idk how any student affords anything aside from one drink out a week and a movie a month.

 

[throwaway1000000]

You do not get an exorbitant amount of loans. Full COA is enough to live frugally.

That is interesting. From what I read on these forums, it seems like people rarely have a trouble being able to afford living expenses. Maybe I shouldn't have said exorbitant but seems like you can live a decent lifestyle with 0 income in pretty much any city (No income during medical school. Is that typical/Doable?)

I could be wrong since I didn't take out loans, but really none of my friends ever told me they couldn't afford living expenses and some of them were living in pretty upscale apartments.

 

[Tiran145]

That is interesting. From what I read on these forums, it seems like people rarely have a trouble being able to afford living expenses. Maybe I shouldn't have said exorbitant but seems like you can live a decent lifestyle with 0 income in pretty much any city (No income during medical school. Is that typical/Doable?)

I could be wrong since I didn't take out loans, but really none of my friends ever told me they couldn't afford living expenses and some of them were living in pretty upscale apartments.

I guess it’s just subjective. I live on loans and have no idea how my classmates who also live on loans live the places they do. I really have no idea how. You can afford a basic apartment and enough food and some spending money but not much more. Living on 18-22k per year is pretty poor. Like that’s the equivalent of basically working a 10 dollar an hour job. Definitely not living large.

 

[throwaway1000000]

I guess it’s just subjective. I live on loans and have no idea how my classmates who also live on loans live the places they do. I really have no idea how. You can afford a basic apartment and enough food and some spending money but not much more. Living on 18-22k per year is pretty poor. Like that’s the equivalent of basically working a 10 dollar an hour job. Definitely not living large.

Yeah like I said upfront, I didn't take out loans and whatever I said regarding living expenses was regarding my friends' experience and the people on this forum. I could be wrong.

 

[deleted1005514]

Yeah like I said upfront, I didn't take out loans and whatever I said regarding living expenses was regarding my friends' experience and the people on this forum. I could be wrong.

I wonder how many of your friends were getting some part of school or living expenses at least partially paid for by family, military, etc, and were taking out loans for "spending/traveling" expenses?

The people in my class who seem to be living the most expensively are either getting something paid for in some other way, or have a working spouse. The ones living on their own and paying rent, food, gas, insurance, travel, books, etc. out of $2-3k a month definitely weren't living extravagantly.

 

[deleted707454]

selling plasma while slamming through Anki cards. Depends where you live, but can cover a significant amount of COL. I have heard of others selling sperm / eggs (eggs pay more).

 

[bananafish94]

Unless your parents pay for everything or you're among the small minority of people who have significant scholarships or are in a program like HPSP you have to take out loans. You won't exactly be living high on the hog but they are certainly enough for a reasonably housing expenses, food, educational expenses, etc. Most people will tell you that the smart thing to do is to take out as little loans as possible and they're probably right. However, and I might (deservedly?) get dragged for this but when you consider how much you have to take out in loans and how the vast, vast, vast majority are completely fixed values you can't do anything about, in the grand scheme of things I don't see anything wrong with taking out a few extra thousand to have a slightly better quality of life during medical school.

 

[throwaway1000000]

I wonder how many of your friends were getting some part of school or living expenses at least partially paid for by family, military, etc, and were taking out loans for "spending/traveling" expenses?

The people in my class who seem to be living the most expensively are either getting something paid for in some other way, or have a working spouse. The ones living on their own and paying rent, food, gas, insurance, travel, books, etc. out of $2-3k a month definitely weren't living extravagantly.

Very possible. How much do you get per month with loans anyway? I mean 3k per month for living expenses is a lot.
I think living expenses for me were:
600 for rent
400 for car
300 for food (split with roommate, lot of free lunches at school, maybe can bump it 400 some months)
health insurance on parents
that is about 16k. with 20k, I could live pretty decently considering I am making 0 income. With 25k-30k, I think I even live even more comfortably.
But our definitions of comfortable will definitely vary. My definition of comfortable is living in a safe environment with 3 good healthy meals.

 

[mmchick]

That is interesting. From what I read on these forums, it seems like people rarely have a trouble being able to afford living expenses. Maybe I shouldn't have said exorbitant but seems like you can live a decent lifestyle with 0 income in pretty much any city (No income during medical school. Is that typical/Doable?)

I could be wrong since I didn't take out loans, but really none of my friends ever told me they couldn't afford living expenses and some of them were living in pretty upscale apartments.

I obviously haven’t entered school yet myself, but crunching the numbers, it seems impossible for someone to be living entirely off loans and living anything more than a very modestly budgeted lifestyle. I think most people aren’t usually as upfront/honest about where their financial support comes from, especially if a good bit of it is coming from their parents.

Very possible. How much do you get per month with loans anyway? I mean 3k per month for living expenses is a lot.

Yea not sure where that person got $2-3K/mo that’s a huge income. Most OOS budgets from loans allocate like maybe 1.5K/mo if that.

 

[throwaway1000000]

I obviously haven’t entered school yet myself, but crunching the numbers, it seems impossible for someone to be living entirely off loans and living anything more than a very modestly budgeted lifestyle. I think most people aren’t usually as upfront/honest about where their financial support comes from, especially if a good bit of it is coming from their parents.



Yea not sure where that person got $2-3K/mo that’s a huge income. Most OOS budgets from loans allocate like maybe 1.5K/mo if that.

Gotchya. Yeah I agree. 1.5k per month will definitely be tight especially if your rent is high and you have a car loan to pay off.
Maybe they did. Even an extra 500-1000 dollars per month from family will make a big difference in lifestyle.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Paying full freight including COL is a major commitment financially. Even just paying for COA and having a working spouse has me at $250k+ as a PGY1. Here are my suggestions.

Year 1 accept the full amount offered in federal loans for COL. Open a checking and savings at a place like Capital One that offers a solid interest rate. When disbursement comes out, place everything in the savings account and set up Biweekly withdrawals. If you’ve never had a full time career this is the best analogy. This will force you on to a budget.

That said, create a budget. Divide your expenses into discretionary (Food, gas, etc) and non-discretionary (rent, car payments, etc). A lot of people talk about the 50/30/20 rule for budgeting: the Needs/Wants/Haves. 50% of your income for necessities, 30% for entertainment, retail, etc., 20% for savings.

To break it down further, try to keep the costs of your rent and utilities below 1/3 of your monthly total. My program offered ~$24k/year COL. That’s $2000/month, so $7-800 is reasonable. But obviously in some cities it’s more expensive, so $1k isn’t bad.

That leaves another $1k for food, gas, metro card, study resources, etc. I left out the 20% for savings because this is unreasonable as a student, but it doesn’t hurt to hold on to $200/month for a rainy day.

now I said at the beginning to take everything they offered. At the end of the academic year, you can return any amount you have left. If you are moving to a new part of the country, you won’t know how your costs shake out, so the safe thing is to take it all, keepgood records, and figure out what to do for subsequent years.

As for loan repayment, just accept that you’ll be on a 15-25 year plan to start. Hire a financial planner when you graduate and let them get your **** in order.

 

[UWIdahoan]

This is so specific to situation because we all have such different circumstances. I think in general, if you want to save money, it's easiest to cut down on your cost of large, set monthly expenses. It can be hard to keep cost on things like groceries stable every month, but if you can get a rent $200 cheaper somewhere every month you don't even have to try to save that money.

I would not suggest taking everything offered at the beginning of the year, but this is just a difference of opinion. My understanding is that these loans accrue interest starting day one, although I don't know if they cancel that interest if you return funds at the end of the year. I do know that it's easy to request another disbursement later in the year if you feel you didn't take enough and need it. Having thousands in my bank account not being used all year is too tempting for me and I would spend it. If you have better self control though, this could work.

 

[deleted1005514]

Very possible. How much do you get per month with loans anyway? I mean 3k per month for living expenses is a lot.
I think living expenses for me were:
600 for rent
400 for car
300 for food (split with roommate, lot of free lunches at school, maybe can bump it 400 some months)
health insurance on parents
that is about 16k. with 20k, I could live pretty decently considering I am making 0 income. With 25k-30k, I think I even live even more comfortably.
But our definitions of comfortable will definitely vary. My definition of comfortable is living in a safe environment with 3 good healthy meals.

It depends on the COA of the school...mine is $13k back per semester after everything is paid. I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just saying that not everyone is living the high life on $2k a month. It's highly person and location dependent.

 

[Tiran145]

Very possible. How much do you get per month with loans anyway? I mean 3k per month for living expenses is a lot.
I think living expenses for me were:
600 for rent
400 for car
300 for food (split with roommate, lot of free lunches at school, maybe can bump it 400 some months)
health insurance on parents
that is about 16k. with 20k, I could live pretty decently considering I am making 0 income. With 25k-30k, I think I even live even more comfortably.
But our definitions of comfortable will definitely vary. My definition of comfortable is living in a safe environment with 3 good healthy meals.

Try 1600 per month for rent food etc. at 800 per month for rent. So excited to get a job one day....

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I would not suggest taking everything offered at the beginning of the year, but this is just a difference of opinion. My understanding is that these loans accrue interest starting day one, although I don't know if they cancel that interest if you return funds at the end of the year. I do know that it's easy to request another disbursement later in the year if you feel you didn't take enough and need it. Having thousands in my bank account not being used all year is too tempting for me and I would spend it. If you have better self control though, this could work.

Interest does accrue day 1, but you are only disbursed money every semester, so on half a semester of $60k tuition at 6%, you’re talking a $900 interest accrual. Barely a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of your loans.

You’ll have to learn self control because you will get that lump sum. Which is why I suggested putting it into a savings account with bimonthly recurring deposits. Savings accounts limit withdraws/month so it helps.

 

[deleted994889]

I would strongly recommend against taking out the maximum amount. Your finaid office will award you the maximum possible for the term, but you do not, and should not, accept it all at once. Instead, only take out as much as you need at any given time. It will be really easy to get extra funds if you want (some would say so easy it is predatory). While I love the idea of saving (most Americans, including doctors, don't save enough), putting loan money into a savings account is not a very good idea. You don't need savings while in school because you can pull out loan money on a whim if something happens. If you do have leftover funds, you will typically have 120 days to return it and they will waive any fees and interest. By only taking out loans when you need, you will minimize how much interest and fees you pay in the long run.

I cannot stress this enough: the sooner you become financially responsible and literate, the better. Learn to live modestly in school and residency, even attending, and start learning about personal finance NOW. Med school is the perfect time to form habits that will last you forever and save you thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Don't underestimate the value of "a few" hundred bucks here and there. Don't shrug it off as "a drop in the bucket." And don't rely on financial advisors when you can absolutely do a better job yourself. It's money that you will/have put in years of blood, sweat, and tears for; fight for it.

I am also going to an expensive school with $60K/year tuition and ~$25-30K/year allocated for everything else. We are just going to have learn to live off that, preferably even less than that. Make a budget and start cutting out things you can live without. Cost runs are inevitable, but try your best to stick with it. Learning to budget is a skill that will benefit you tremendously now and even as an attending. One area that really eats (pun intended) your money is dining/taking out. Learn to cook and it will be healthier for you and your wallet. Making your own coffee if you're always at Starbucks can also save you boatloads. I will also be in a high COL area and possibly renting year round, but I've made a reasonable budget with living expenses under $13,000 per year (granted my car is paid off).

 

[esob]

This is best addressed by the financial aid dept at your specific school. Every school has its own set of scholarships and resources available to students and if you are willing to write the essays and sift through the opportunities that you qualify for, you can substantially reduce your loan amounts.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I would strongly recommend against taking out the maximum amount. Your finaid office will award you the maximum possible for the year, but you do not, and should not, accept it all at once. Instead, only take out as much as you need at any given time. It will be really easy to get extra funds if you want (some would say so easy it is predatory). While I love the idea of saving (most Americans, including doctors, don't save enough), putting loan money into a savings account is not a very good idea. You don't need savings while in school because you can pull out loan money on a whim if something happens. If you do have leftover funds, you will typically have 120 days to return it and they will waive any fees and interest. By only taking out loans when you need, you will minimize how much interest and fees you pay in the long run.

You obviously misread or didn’t fully read my post. I stated that saving is not necessary. I said to open the savings account because they carry higher interest rates. When you get your dispersal for the semester, you’re going to get half of your total COL. That’s up to $12-4K all at once. Taking that and having it deposited into a savings account allows you to get some sort of interest compared to a checking account. It also doesn’t just put $12k there for you to make dumb debit card purchases with. In short, you create your own escrow account.

As for taking the maximum. If your school awards you $24k and you can penny pinch and only need 80% which is $19k, over the four years of med school there is only a $1k difference in accrued interest. While you can keep going back for more disbursements, the non-economic benefit is debatable.

Finally, I only said to do that for year 1. As you said,most have a grace period to return without penalty or interest. You’ll get a 6 month disbursement and have 4 months to know your monthly budget. Plenty of time to return it. While I get your hesitancy to take the max, there is little harm if they are cautious and develop a good budget.

 

[mmchick]

Thanks everyone for the advice - I consider myself pretty financially literate, I have thousands of dollars worth of investments I've built over the years and it makes more sense to continue to build that over time instead of use it for the 6-7 months of rent it would only last me.

I think my general strategy will be to take the full amount to get my bearings, reformat my budget based on COL in the new area I'm moving to, take those adjustments into consideration for the following years, return M1-year loans as (hopefully) aren't used, and take partial awards from there on out. Further, considering my portfolio makes about 10% a year, I'll continue to build my portfolio over time (as a form of savings) well into residency vs tackling loans with inadequate income (investments would make me more money than what I'm saving by making minimal loan repayments). Hopefully by this point, 5-7 years from now, I'll have a good strategy for tackling a potential 300-400K loan.

Appreciate all the feedback!

 

[deleted994889]

You obviously misread or didn’t fully read my post. I stated that saving is not necessary. I said to open the savings account because they carry higher interest rates. When you get your dispersal for the semester, you’re going to get half of your total COL. That’s up to $12-4K all at once. Taking that and having it deposited into a savings account allows you to get some sort of interest compared to a checking account. It also doesn’t just put $12k there for you to make dumb debit card purchases with. In short, you create your own escrow account.

As for taking the maximum. If your school awards you $24k and you can penny pinch and only need 80% which is $19k, over the four years of med school there is only a $1k difference in accrued interest. While you can keep going back for more disbursements, the non-economic benefit is debatable.

Finally, I only said to do that for year 1. As you said,most have a grace period to return without penalty or interest. You’ll get a 6 month disbursement and have 4 months to know your monthly budget. Plenty of time to return it. While I get your hesitancy to take the max, there is little harm if they are cautious and develop a good budget.

My apologies. I saw the $200/month rainy day fund and return at academic year-end instead of term-end and went off. I like the idea of gaining some interest on the loan money before returning it if you're disciplined (its something I plan on doing myself). I generally don't think many are so I default to pull as you go.

I'll happily keep $1,000 in saved interest though. That's a whole month's living expense and then some or 17% towards an IRA.

Thanks everyone for the advice - I consider myself pretty financially literate, I have thousands of dollars worth of investments I've built over the years and it makes more sense to continue to build that over time instead of use it for the 6-7 months of rent it would only last me.

I think my general strategy will be to take the full amount to get my bearings, reformat my budget based on COL in the new area I'm moving to, take those adjustments into consideration for the following years, return M1-year loans as (hopefully) aren't used, and take partial awards from there on out. Further, considering my portfolio makes about 10% a year, I'll continue to build my portfolio over time (as a form of savings) well into residency vs tackling loans with inadequate income (investments would make me more money than what I'm saving by making minimal loan repayments). Hopefully by this point, 5-7 years from now, I'll have a good strategy for tackling a potential 300-400K loan.

Appreciate all the feedback!

Good plan. I assume by "continue to build my portfolio," you mean letting it continue to grow and not make contributions during school. As for the repayment plan, the 2 best options are usually federal IDR or aggressive repayment. If you plan on aggressive repayment, consider using REPAYE during residency so the minimum payments you make will go a lot further due to the interest subsidy. Since there is no point in making more than minimum payments (it just eats your interest subsidy), you're free to continue investing or save up to make a larger payment when you refinance after residency. Just know aggressive repayment will have you living like a resident for a few years. Federal IDR can be a good plan for those with massive debts, too, but you'll need to crunch the numbers to see if it is mathematically favorable. But while mathematically favorable, the psychological effects of being in debt for 20+ years should be considered as well.

 

[mmchick]

Good plan. I assume by "continue to build my portfolio," you mean letting it continue to grow and not make contributions during school. As for the repayment plan, the 2 best options are usually federal IDR or aggressive repayment. If you plan on aggressive repayment, consider using REPAYE during residency so the minimum payments you make will go a lot further due to the interest subsidy. Since there is no point in making more than minimum payments (it just eats your interest subsidy), you're free to continue investing or save up to make a larger payment when you refinance after residency. Just know aggressive repayment will have you living like a resident for a few years. Federal IDR can be a good plan for those with massive debts, too, but you'll need to crunch the numbers to see if it is mathematically favorable. But while mathematically favorable, the psychological effects of being in debt for 20+ years should be considered as well.

My general strategy has always been DCA, so I’d continue to make small contributions (way smaller than now due to my future loss of income). But generally, yes, allow to grow over time.

Thanks for those advice bits- I think it’d be more fitting for me to aggressively pay off loans as soon as I make the adequate income to do so while sacrificing level of QOL in the meantime to get them done in < 5-6 years. I don’t know a whole lot about loan refinancing so that’s something I’ll read up a bit more about. As for payments during residency.. I still think, according to calculations and projections of successful portfolio in future time, the amount I’d make back on the little I could use for loans instead as investment contributions would outweigh the negligible amount I’d save in increased compounded interest. This is definitely far down the line, but I’ll be careful about those calculations as well.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

My general strategy has always been DCA, so I’d continue to make small contributions (way smaller than now due to my future loss of income). But generally, yes, allow to grow over time.

Thanks for those advice bits- I think it’d be more fitting for me to aggressively pay off loans as soon as I make the adequate income to do so while sacrificing level of QOL in the meantime to get them done in < 5-6 years. I don’t know a whole lot about loan refinancing so that’s something I’ll read up a bit more about. As for payments during residency.. I still think, according to calculations and projections of successful portfolio in future time, the amount I’d make back on the little I could use for loans instead as investment contributions would outweigh the negligible amount I’d save in increased compounded interest. This is definitely far down the line, but I’ll be careful about those calculations as well.

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. For now focus on maximizing how you stretch you loans. Depending on speciality, fellowship, residency & practice location, partner, children, etc there are too many variables right now to talk about post-graduation payments. That's not to say don't be aware. As it stands your literacy is much higher than the average student. No resident with your tuition does a standard repayment. If I did that right now, it'd be greater than my mortgage.

My final thought is that you shouldn't let your loan money shackle you. After Step 1, if you're burnt out, take that European vacation. You earned it. Don't be afraid to go out to a nice dinner with friends occasionally. While those luxuries do come with interest, your mental well being and the ability to distance yourself from school is worth it. Good luck with school. It's long but worth it.

 

[deleted994889]

My general strategy has always been DCA, so I’d continue to make small contributions (way smaller than now due to my future loss of income). But generally, yes, allow to grow over time.

Thanks for those advice bits- I think it’d be more fitting for me to aggressively pay off loans as soon as I make the adequate income to do so while sacrificing level of QOL in the meantime to get them done in < 5-6 years. I don’t know a whole lot about loan refinancing so that’s something I’ll read up a bit more about. As for payments during residency.. I still think, according to calculations and projections of successful portfolio in future time, the amount I’d make back on the little I could use for loans instead as investment contributions would outweigh the negligible amount I’d save in increased compounded interest. This is definitely far down the line, but I’ll be careful about those calculations as well.

You should check out the White Coat Investor blog. Dr. Dahle is a huge proponent of aggressive repayment and gives lots of info on that as well as other great financial advice.

As for contributing during med school, loan money contributed to IRAs and Roths is not earned income and subject to a penalty (10% I think?). Allegedly, there is a work-around if you're willing to do that or you could just put it into taxable accounts. Either way, as a big debtor, the loan money used will be Grad PLUS and 7.079% + 4.236% origination (these numbers will likely go up in July). Granted the loan interest will be uncapitalized (at least through residency) while your investment interest is compounding, but its still pretty risky. Your portfolio may be earning 10% right now, but no guarantees it will remain like that. I would say just saving on the Grad PLUS is a much safer option. Just let your portfolio be for 4 years.

Your primary goal is to keep expenses down so you minimize your overall debt burden, but also keep all your loans federal as to have the most options when it does come time for repayment. But as @CyrilFiggis says, don't be afraid to spend on yourself here and there.

 

[Mass Effect]

That is interesting. From what I read on these forums, it seems like people rarely have a trouble being able to afford living expenses. Maybe I shouldn't have said exorbitant but seems like you can live a decent lifestyle with 0 income in pretty much any city (No income during medical school. Is that typical/Doable?)

I could be wrong since I didn't take out loans, but really none of my friends ever told me they couldn't afford living expenses and some of them were living in pretty upscale apartments.

There are 3 categories of med students:
1. Subsidized by mommy and daddy in addition to loans (they won't tell you that and they'll adamantly deny it if it ever comes up).
2. Med students who went straight from undergrad and are likely making more money than they ever have in their life with loans. 20K a year for someone working the student help center in undergrad while room and board is paid for is pretty nice. Particularly if they're still eating Ramen and pizza.
3. Med students who've actually been out in the world and recognize that 20K a year is peanuts.

 

[Mass Effect]

Very possible. How much do you get per month with loans anyway? I mean 3k per month for living expenses is a lot.
I think living expenses for me were:
600 for rent
400 for car
300 for food (split with roommate, lot of free lunches at school, maybe can bump it 400 some months)
health insurance on parents
that is about 16k. with 20k, I could live pretty decently considering I am making 0 income. With 25k-30k, I think I even live even more comfortably.
But our definitions of comfortable will definitely vary. My definition of comfortable is living in a safe environment with 3 good healthy meals.

Many med students can't be on parents' health insurance and that can run another 200+ a month. When I was a med student, I was paying 650/month for health insurance due to a pre-existing condition.

Also your rent was ridiculously cheap. Your finance picture also doesn't take into consideration utilities, clothes, lab fees, books, gear, review courses for USMLE, flights, room, and board for away rotations (post-COVID), flights for residency interviews/hotels,

 

[mmchick]

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. For now focus on maximizing how you stretch you loans. Depending on speciality, fellowship, residency & practice location, partner, children, etc there are too many variables right now to talk about post-graduation payments. That's not to say don't be aware. As it stands your literacy is much higher than the average student. No resident with your tuition does a standard repayment. If I did that right now, it'd be greater than my mortgage.

My final thought is that you shouldn't let your loan money shackle you. After Step 1, if you're burnt out, take that European vacation. You earned it. Don't be afraid to go out to a nice dinner with friends occasionally. While those luxuries do come with interest, your mental well being and the ability to distance yourself from school is worth it. Good luck with school. It's long but worth it.

Hmm, so you don’t think it’s possible (in your personal situation) to pay back a hypothetical 300-400K loan in 5-7 years? From my calculations, so long as I make roughly $250K (pre-tax) post-residency, I should have enough to live off 36-40K/year while saving roughly 20K/yr and still have 100K to pay off loans. Even in the most conservative estimates, that’s paying off that sort of a loan in < 5 years.

Absolutely. I plan to use my own savings/returns for personal discretionary spending, but I certainly do not have the mindset of hating my poor youth years. I tend to live modestly anyway with only a few things I actually treat myself with, so I don’t see myself getting too depressed with the budget.

 

[throwaway1000000]

Many med students can't be on parents' health insurance and that can run another 200+ a month. When I was a med student, I was paying 650/month for health insurance due to a pre-existing condition.

Also your rent was ridiculously cheap. Your finance picture also doesn't take into consideration utilities, clothes, lab fees, books, gear, review courses for USMLE, flights, room, and board for away rotations (post-COVID), flights for residency interviews/hotels,

Not disagreeing. Just gave a rough budget. There will be a lot of unexpected costs along your 4 years. Main things would be healthcare costs if your deductible is high. An ER visit is typically 2000-3000 in a high deductible plan before insurance kicks in. Car repairs is another one. Had lot of flat tires due to living in a city and sometimes had to replace the tire.

600 includes utilities. Perks of living in a low cost of living state. Had a roommate all 4 years.
Bought very few clothes. Few dress pants and shirts during the first 3 years to look good in clinicals. Washed and ironed and very frequently. 1 suit for 4th year.
Lab fees? Don't think I paid anything outside of tuition
Books-Paid very minimal. Just a subscription for boards and beyond, pathoma, sketchy all of which i split with other people. uworld was provided by the school
review courses- as mentioned above
USMLE-did take up about 2400 throughout the 4 years (step 1, CK, CS)
4th year costs can add up a lot-Luckily I didn't spend too much compared to some people. No aways. 900 for applications fees. 1000 for flights (only flew to 3 places, drove everywhere else). Gas and hotel fees-around 600. Probably spent about 2500 for interviews. Not bad.

Planning on living on a lower budget in residency. Renting a place within walking distance. Won't be buying a car if I can manage (took one for lease during med school). Will manage with public transportation. Learned to cook during this quarantine period and lunches will be provided by the residency program. Should hopefully not spend too much.
For people wanting to lower the budgets, 3 simple things in principle but tough to follow
1) split rent with roommates
2) live within walking distance- avoid a car or buy the cheapest car possible that will take you from point a to point b
3) learn to cook

 

[UWIdahoan]

You’ll have to learn self control because you will get that lump sum.

Not sure if this is truly directed at me, but I'm an MS4 and am fully aware of how loans are dispersed. I get a lump sum 4x a year that goes straight to tuition with a much smaller amount left over which barely covers my living expenses for those three months. This is much different than if I got $56,000-$67,000 in my bank account in September for the entire year.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Not sure if this is truly directed at me, but I'm an MS4 and am fully aware of how loans are dispersed.

Was not.

Hmm, so you don’t think it’s possible (in your personal situation) to pay back a hypothetical 300-400K loan in 5-7 years? From my calculations, so long as I make roughly $250K (pre-tax) post-residency, I should have enough to live off 36-40K/year while saving roughly 20K/yr and still have 100K to pay off loans. Even in the most conservative estimates, that’s paying off that sort of a loan in < 5 years.

If that’s they lifestyle you want for yourself, you could payoff in less than 10 years. But like I said, there are variables. You’re still a minimum of 7 years away from an attending salary. Where will you be in life? Will you have a spouse, children, want to buy a house, etc.?

I know plenty of people that aggressively paid down debt and lived life paupers. But for me that’s not the feasible. All I was saying is that while you may have a plan, it’s not important right now. Also, when the time comes, hire a CFP who can help you maximize your ability to reach your financial independence. I got mine through white coat investor (As someone else mentioned) and it was the best investment I’ve made.