VCOM - buyer beware

[liptonbrew]

I'd be wary of what VCOM is trying to sell you. They have some major faculty issues that they've decided not to address. The attrition rate for faculty since its opening has been shocking. They actually fired a Phys prof in the first month for complete incompetence. But they still kept him on staff because his wife (also a Phys prof) is bringing major stem cell research. None of the Phys teachers have any background in teaching the subject. We've had multiple teachers pass through. The class on average did horribly in Phys, which is a major component on boards.

Also, there is essentially no Path teaching. The initial prof was such an incredibly horrible lecturer that students demanded a change. We have SDLs (student directed learning), which means the teacher copies-and-pastes a document together on a particular pathology, we read it, then take an online quiz. Path is also a huge component on boards, so you're basically on your own to learn these subjects.

There doesn't seem to be much of an effort or desire to fix the problem. For Phys - no qualified faculty has been hired. In fact, a prof asked the Dean if she'd like his friend from USC Med to come up and provide Phys lectures. She responded by telling him that it'd give the impression that something was wrong?!? We had a USC prof come up one block and gave fantastic Path lectures, but VCOM told her that they were proceeding with SDLs only.

I realize a new school is going to have issues, but these problems are systemic in nature. If I had to do it over again I would have waited another year or gone Caribbean. I did really well on my boards, but I can't attribute that to anything VCOM did for me. I eventually put headphones on during class and studied on my own. It definitely was the right move.

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[NontradCA]

So a couple bad profs and you'd rather go to the Caribbean? Doesn't make sense.

 

[as1212559]

Oh look it's one of these threads again. Glad to see I can not get on here for a while and nothing changes.

 

[liptonbrew]

That's just an indication of how horribly things have gone. It's not two profs, it's two departments. If you've looked into board exams you'd see that Phys, Path, Pathophys are the largest components. All I'm saying is that if you depend on lectures for learning you will be at a significant disadvantage at VCOM.

 

[Elevencents]

N=1 but curious if this is Carolina or Virginia.

 

[liptonbrew]

Carolinas.

N=160

Average grades on neuro, cardi, pulmo, GI, Phys exams were all less than 70 before they omitted Qs and gave bonus points. All Path exams had bonus questions that bumped average at least 10 points.

It was a good strategy to quiet the whiners, but in the end a good grade doesn't mean you actually know the material.

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Looks like its time to get familiar with Costanzo's physiology and Pathoma. I've had some bad physiology and pathology teachers myself. It sucks but its nothing you can control so try to do something proactive about it instead of whining about it online.

 

[csx]

Carolinas.

N=160

Average grades on neuro, cardi, pulmo, GI, Phys exams were all less than 70 before they omitted Qs and gave bonus points. All Path exams had bonus questions that bumped average at least 10 points.

It was a good strategy to quiet the whiners, but in the end a good grade doesn't mean you actually know the material.

what is this "N=" stuff?

 

[NontradCA]

what is this "N=" stuff?

🙄

Sample size.

 

[circulus vitios]

Oh look it's one of these threads again. Glad to see I can not get on here for a while and nothing changes.

Why do people think medical schools are infallible?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well they have solid pass rates. So...

 

[cliquesh]

Well they have solid pass rates. So...

He's talking about Vcom sc, which I think has had 1 class take the boards.

 

[NeuroLAX]

what is this "N=" stuff?

🙄

Sample size.

😀 Sorry csx, maybe you haven't taken stats yet, but that's the funniest thing I've seen today.

 

[Darthberghen]

Carolinas.

N=160

Average grades on neuro, cardi, pulmo, GI, Phys exams were all less than 70 before they omitted Qs and gave bonus points. All Path exams had bonus questions that bumped average at least 10 points.

It was a good strategy to quiet the whiners, but in the end a good grade doesn't mean you actually know the material.

It is not uncommon for a professor or course committee to give back points or add points or throw out a question after an exam. This happens at every med school.

 

[csx]

😀 Sorry csx, maybe you haven't taken stats yet, but that's the funniest thing I've seen today.

Iol yw. I haven't yet 😀

 

[DOPlzthx]

I'd be wary of what VCOM is trying to sell you. They have some major faculty issues that they've decided not to address. The attrition rate for faculty since its opening has been shocking. They actually fired a Phys prof in the first month for complete incompetence. But they still kept him on staff because his wife (also a Phys prof) is bringing major stem cell research. None of the Phys teachers have any background in teaching the subject. We've had multiple teachers pass through. The class on average did horribly in Phys, which is a major component on boards.

Also, there is essentially no Path teaching. The initial prof was such an incredibly horrible lecturer that students demanded a change. We have SDLs (student directed learning), which means the teacher copies-and-pastes a document together on a particular pathology, we read it, then take an online quiz. Path is also a huge component on boards, so you're basically on your own to learn these subjects.

There doesn't seem to be much of an effort or desire to fix the problem. For Phys - no qualified faculty has been hired. In fact, a prof asked the Dean if she'd like his friend from USC Med to come up and provide Phys lectures. She responded by telling him that it'd give the impression that something was wrong?!? We had a USC prof come up one block and gave fantastic Path lectures, but VCOM told her that they were proceeding with SDLs only.

I realize a new school is going to have issues, but these problems are systemic in nature. If I had to do it over again I would have waited another year or gone Caribbean. I did really well on my boards, but I can't attribute that to anything VCOM did for me. I eventually put headphones on during class and studied on my own. It definitely was the right move.

Wait, so we are not going to be spoon fed in medical school??

 

[KnuxNole]

A lot of the first two years are reading the information on your own. If you solely depend on your professor, you're gonna have a bad time. Like cipher said, Costanzo for Physio is gold! I've never used Pathoma, but heard amazing things about it from the underclassmen. Use that, Goljan, Robbins, UWorld questions, etc. to nail Pathology.

 

[hallowmann]

Carolinas.

N=160

Average grades on neuro, cardi, pulmo, GI, Phys exams were all less than 70 before they omitted Qs and gave bonus points. All Path exams had bonus questions that bumped average at least 10 points.

It was a good strategy to quiet the whiners, but in the end a good grade doesn't mean you actually know the material.

Then they'll fail the COMLEX. I'm sure there are people who just make it by in med school. Those are the same people that fail the boards. They have them at every school.

No school is perfect. Many have problems. Students will complain about everything. I overheard some med students at a top-20 MD school complaining about how terrible the school, teaching, etc is. That school has great board scores.

Check the school, talk to lots of students, and make your own decision on what's best for you.

 

[withoutlyrics]

I, for one, appreciate such posts. Truth be told, there are only so many medical schools out there and even fewer that will accept you, so chances are you will have options that are far from ideal. That's hard to swallow. However, if you have more than one choice, this is the kind of information you want to know to make an informed decision.

With that said, while I am definitely not one applaud instructors who are incompetent, this is not the deal breaker it is made out to be. It means you will need to take learning into your own hands and seek out resources to make sure you know the information. Now, there was another post on a school in which a student was stuck with an outpatient OBGYN rotation without a chance to be present on the labor and delivery floor. That is a bigger red flag.

I hope such posts do not disappear. Thanks, OP!

 

[csx]

I, for one, appreciate such posts. Truth be told, there are only so many medical schools out there and even fewer that will accept you, so chances are you will have options that are far from ideal. That's hard to swallow. However, if you have more than one choice, this is the kind of information you want to know to make an informed decision.

With that said, while I am definitely not one applaud instructors who are incompetent, this is not the deal breaker it is made out to be. It means you will need to take learning into your own hands and seek out resources to make sure you know the information. Now, there was another post on a school in which a student was stuck with an outpatient OBGYN rotation without a chance to be present on the labor and delivery floor. That is a bigger red flag.

I hope such posts do not disappear. Thanks, OP!

This. Someone of the premeds posting here almost seem to be personally insulted that he dare say such things haha SDN never fails to surprise me.

 

[hallowmann]

This. Someone of the premeds posting here almost seem to be personally insulted that he dare say such things haha SDN never fails to surprise me.

The real problem with posts like these is sampling bias. You get a post like this that describes a problem that is present at almost every medical school in the country, and it makes you think, oh I better reconsider going to VCOM, when in fact most schools are like this. Now, OP would have very little idea what most schools are like, because, big surprise, they only go to one med school.

The types of people that usually post on here about how "terrible" a school is are all people that feel wronged in some way. Tons of people who like their school tend not to line up and explain the great aspects of it, so all you see are the handfuls of people that use SDN regularly and hate the school for one reason or another, which usually says more about the personality of the individual than anything else.

I have no problem with someone bringing up a real issue at a school (for example the loss of major clinical sites, a sudden drop in board pass rates, etc.), but listening to someone whining that they have to study a couple of the subjects on their own in med school, because, again big surprise, not every professor at every med school is amazing (which itself is something relatively subjective), just seems like a waste of time.

I would like to say though, that OP seems genuinely concerned about his/her learning experience, so this is not the "typical" burn thread. The main point, however, is again an issue at practically every medical school in the country. There's a reason why most of the med students at schools that don't have required attendance, simply stop attending lectures.

Anyways, like I said, when you're at the school (interviews, tours, whatever) talk to a good amount of current or previous students. Ask them what their biggest pros and biggest cons of the school are. You'll find a few things that repeat in each category. That is pretty much the only thing that will give you a good idea of what a school is like and what your experience going there will be like. Only you can decide whether a school is right for you.

 

[sazerac]

Why do you rely on your own school to teach you pathology? The vast majority of medical students outsourced that to Dr. Sattar at the University of Chicago a couple years ago.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Why do you rely on your own school to teach you pathology? The vast majority of medical students outsourced that to Dr. Sattar at the University of Chicago a couple years ago.

Dr. Sattar doesn't write our exams.

 

[liptonbrew]

The real problem with posts like these is sampling bias. You get a post like this that describes a problem that is present at almost every medical school in the country, and it makes you think, oh I better reconsider going to VCOM, when in fact most schools are like this. Now, OP would have very little idea what most schools are like, because, big surprise, they only go to one med school.

The types of people that usually post on here about how "terrible" a school is are all people that feel wronged in some way. Tons of people who like their school tend not to line up and explain the great aspects of it, so all you see are the handfuls of people that use SDN regularly and hate the school for one reason or another, which usually says more about the personality of the individual than anything else.

I have no problem with someone bringing up a real issue at a school (for example the loss of major clinical sites, a sudden drop in board pass rates, etc.), but listening to someone whining that they have to study a couple of the subjects on their own in med school, because, again big surprise, not every professor at every med school is amazing (which itself is something relatively subjective), just seems like a waste of time.

I would like to say though, that OP seems genuinely concerned about his/her learning experience, so this is not the "typical" burn thread. The main point, however, is again an issue at practically every medical school in the country. There's a reason why most of the med students at schools that don't have required attendance, simply stop attending lectures.

Anyways, like I said, when you're at the school (interviews, tours, whatever) talk to a good amount of current or previous students. Ask them what their biggest pros and biggest cons of the school are. You'll find a few things that repeat in each category. That is pretty much the only thing that will give you a good idea of what a school is like and what your experience going there will be like. Only you can decide whether a school is right for you.

I actually have a brother, father, 2 Uncles, and a handful of cousins that are physicians. One uncle teaches at a medical school. I've gotten a pretty good idea of the minimum a med school should provide. I'm not sure VCOM provides that. The post is simply to inform prospectives that for $40K you might get better value elsewhere. I studied on my own and got 85th percentile on COMLEX, so I realize students have to study on their own. My point is if you're going to pay t hat much money don't you want at least to have the option of having competent instruction? Especially bc attendance is mandatory. What are we paying for?!?