Venting about MDs vs. Pharmacists

Started by ufpsu26
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karizma098 said:
Sure, can you tell me how you're trained to save a life? and i'm not talking about CPR or the heimlech or something of this sort, but what in your graduate training has prepared you to save a life of someone in cardiac arrest, with a pneumothorax, shock, brain hemorrhage, etc?
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It prepared me in all sorts of way like saving a patient's life when you dumb ass gives a patient with a progressive worsening heart failure a dig overdose. True story that our cardiac pharmacist shared with us today btw. :laugh:

You want to be obnoxious, knock yourself out ! :laugh: But to mistaken your own lack of knowledge and unfamiliarity with our scope of practice with the lack of our contribution not only makes you look like a douche, but like a ***** as well. 🙄
 
cheburashka said:
It prepared me in all sorts of way like saving a patient's life when you dumb ass gives a patient with a progressive worsening heart failure a dig overdose. True story that our cardiac pharmacist shared with us today btw. :laugh:

You want to be obnoxious, knock yourself out ! :laugh: But to mistaken your own lack of knowledge and unfamiliarity with our scope of practice with the lack of our contribution not only makes you look like a douche, but like a ***** as well. 🙄
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👍

I concur. :laugh:
 
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Here are some of the results of the study...

"Seven clinical pharmacy services were associated with reduced mortality rates: pharmacist-provided drug use evaluation (4491 reduced deaths, p=0.016), pharmacist-provided in-service education (10,660 reduced deaths, p=0.037), pharmacist-provided adverse drug reaction management (14,518 reduced deaths, p=0.012), pharmacist-provided drug protocol management (18,401 reduced deaths, p=0.017), pharmacist participation on the cardiopulmonary resuscitation team (12,880 reduced deaths, p=0.009), pharmacist participation on medical rounds (11,093 reduced deaths, p=0.021), and pharmacist-provided admission drug histories (3988 reduced deaths, p=0.001). Two staffing variables, number of pharmacy administrators/100 occupied beds (p=0.037) and number of clinical pharmacists/100 occupied beds (p=0.023), were also associated with reduced mortality rates."


Read More: http://pharmacotherapyjournal.org/doi/abs/10.1592/phco.27.4.481

That's a lot of saved lives.
 
DYSF777 said:
That's a lot of saved lives.
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That's obvious, I can think of a dozen more examples when we "save lives". Long term wise, for example transplant pharmacists that manage transplant patients. Ufortunately, to meds saving lives means you have to be performing open heart surgery in front of ER with the toothpick you found in a back pocket while being showered in patient's blood. :laugh:
 
karizma098 said:
Sure, can you tell me how you're trained to save a life? and i'm not talking about CPR or the heimlech or something of this sort, but what in your graduate training has prepared you to save a life of someone in cardiac arrest, with a pneumothorax, shock, brain hemorrhage, etc?
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Many pharmacists are ACLS trained.

Also, noting that a physician calculated chemotherapy doses using a patient's weight in pounds as if it was in kilograms. Reminding you to restart a patient's clonidine on admission to the hospital so their BP doesn't skyrocket. Catching an amphotericin B dose that was calculated using Ambisome dosing. Recommending broad coverage for a patient with likely pneumonia and sepsis who is on dialysis and coming from a nursing home when the physician only ordered ceftriaxone + azithromycin.

Maybe we don't know if these would have been fatal, but there is a good chance they could have been.
 
karizma098 said:
this stuff gets so old.

if you want to save lives, get prestige, or be the 'indispensible' member of the team, don't be a pharmacist. If you don't want to work your A** off until your 30, work 60 hours a week, lose all your hair and grow a belly - and deal with paperwork and bs from insurance companies all day long, don't be a physician.

There is no utopia folks. news channels consult doctors because they are the specialists when it comes to pathology/diagnosis/treatment. If they have a drug question, or are researching medication development, 9/10 they will go to a PhD pharmacologist / pharmD pharmacist.


everyone has a role, but everyone can't be the leader. too many chefs in the kitchen spoils the broth.

( p.s. - i'm sorry, but i really don't think pharmacists save lives ( to one of the above posters ) )
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That's because your stethoscope is so far up your ass you can only hear your own heart beat.

Pharmacists save lives and reduce morbidity every single day in every setting. That's like saying a GP doesn't save lives because he doesn't do open heart surgery or treat an MI in the ER. We catch drug interactions, inappropriate therapy, inappropriate dosing and just plain prescribing errors. You should speak to the lady I sent to the ER a few months back when she came to the counter in frank CHF. The ER doc said if she waited much longer she might not have made it.

I don't expect to be the leader of the band, but I'm part of the orchestra and for you to say otherwise is not only incorrect, but foolish. The quarterback can't win the game by himself. He needs the rest of the team.
 
The name calling makes you guys seem like the douches. Let's keep it professional.
 
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MRa2z said:
The name calling makes you guys seem like the douches. Let's keep it professional.
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I've argued your point and more so - gave you specific example when a doctor nearly killed a patient a pharmacist saved. That is a saved life, don't you agree ?

Savings lives doesn't mean peforming open heart surgery, it's much more encompassing. The difference between us is that I realize this and you have a very narrow point of view and don't. I also don't bust into allo and start belittling your contributions to patient's care without having a full grasp on them.
 
I'm not a troll. Just saying saving lives isn't really in your job description. If you guys believe catching drug interactions is saving lives every day, So be it. I was simply stating from a pathological stand point you don't have the training to treat emergent pathology. You mention CHF, sure you can call the ER, but how do you treat the actual problem? Even a general practitioner knows what to do if a nearby pedestrian has been shot, hit by a car, or passed out. Does a pharmacist/dentist/podiatrist? No. Aside from calling 911, you don't. So please, spare me the propaganda.

I don't tell you my job description entails pharmacotherapy so don't tell me what mine is. As for all of you with the stories about "saving a doctors ass", please don't - it just makes you look like you're compensating. We hate hearing it, how often do we talk about saving a midlevels ass when they screw up? We don't, we have nothing to prove. Grow up.
 
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karizma098 said:
I'm not a troll. Just saying saving lives isn't really in your job description. If you guys believe catching drug interactions is saving lives every day, So be it. I was simply stating from a pathological stand point you don't have the training to treat emergent pathology. You mention CHF, sure you can call the ER, but how do you treat the actual problem? Even a general practitioner knows what to do if a nearby pedestrian has been shot, hit by a car, or passed out. Does a pharmacist/dentist/podiatrist? No. Aside from calling 911, you don't. So please, spare me the propaganda.

I don't tell you my job description entails pharmacotherapy so don't tell me what mine is. As for all of you with the stories about "saving a doctors ass", please don't - it just makes you look like you're compensating. We hate hearing it, how often do we talk about saving a midlevels ass when they screw up? We don't, we have nothing to prove. Grow up.
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Wow- you really are that narrow... You don't think pharmacists know what to do for CHF or what to do when someone gets shot? Have you ever worked alongside a clinical pharmacist? hahaha this is laughable. Why are you even IN this forum?
 
rxlea said:
How about "douches" don't come into our forum to deride the profession? You're right. Let's keep it professional.
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Right. Posting in a thread that encompasses misinformation and negative energy toward medicine. Did I name call? No. Did I acknowledge the importance of pharmacists in health care and clinical settings? Yes. I get flamed and called names for simply stating pharmacists don't have the training to "save lives" in emergent situations - not preventative ones. I'm the douche, sure. I'm sorry if anyone was offended, the great thing about healthcare and our country in general is we can agree to disagree and still respect one another. ( not including being called a douche, I guess )
 
karizma098 said:
I'm not a troll. Just saying saving lives isn't really in your job description. If you guys believe catching drug interactions is saving lives every day, So be it.
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This is so funny. You have a very narrow view of what saving a life entails. I love that you have not addressed the article above that directly contradicts your argument. Unless you think reducing mortality is somehow different than saving lives? 🙄


Darnit, I took the bait! Obviously, I didn't read the signs. :meanie:
 
rxlea said:
Wow- you really are that narrow... You don't think pharmacists know what to do for CHF or what to do when someone gets shot? Have you ever worked alongside a clinical pharmacist? hahaha this is laughable. Why are you even IN this forum?
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Sure, you win. You guys know what I do and I'll hit you up when I have an MI because you know what drug dosing is optimal given my metormin and thiazide dosage.
 
karizma098 said:
...I get flamed and called names for simply stating pharmacists don't have the training to "save lives" in emergent situations ...
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Let's see if this is the original claim:

( p.s. - i'm sorry, but i really don't think pharmacists save lives ( to one of the above posters ) )
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Nope! BTW, have you never seen a pharmacist in an urgent care setting?
 
rxlea said:
You sure don't seem sorry at all 😉 but hey, what do I know? I am but a lowly pharmacy student and all I know how to do is count pills and call 911. 🤣
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I'm tired guys. Again my point was in regards to emergent pathology not preventative medicine. I never called anybody lowly or any other names so don't put that on me. Peace everybody. The article was
A good read btw.
 
karizma098 said:
I'm not a troll. Just saying saving lives isn't really in your job description. If you guys believe catching drug interactions is saving lives every day, So be it. I was simply stating from a pathological stand point you don't have the training to treat emergent pathology. You mention CHF, sure you can call the ER, but how do you treat the actual problem? Even a general practitioner knows what to do if a nearby pedestrian has been shot, hit by a car, or passed out. Does a pharmacist/dentist/podiatrist? No. Aside from calling 911, you don't. So please, spare me the propaganda.

I don't tell you my job description entails pharmacotherapy so don't tell me what mine is. As for all of you with the stories about "saving a doctors ass", please don't - it just makes you look like you're compensating. We hate hearing it, how often do we talk about saving a midlevels ass when they screw up? We don't, we have nothing to prove. Grow up.
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Your arguments really do not hold water. I'm not going to argue that pharmacists do or do not save lives simply because that is an inane argument to have. However, your exaggerations to the point of hyperbole are ridiculous. A GP and pharmacist (many of whom have BLS and/or ACLS training) would likely handle a trauma patient in the same manner - by calling 911 and waiting with the victim.

In regards to your discussion of code situations, that's just flat out incorrect. I've done compressions, pushed medications and followed the ACLS algorithms just the same as you have. I haven't done a thoracotomy, but then again, neither have most physicians.

We're happy with what we do and take pride in it. We contribute to patient's well-being in our own way, and yes, our interventions do potentially save and/or prolong their lives. Why do you feel the need to try to take that away from us?
 
owlegrad said:
Let's see if this is the original claim:

Nope! BTW, have you never seen a pharmacist in an urgent care setting?
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I clarified my point numerous times man. Dieticians, social workers, and anybody that counsels a patient on diet or excercise saves lives by this argument. Again, im done, you guys all win.
 
You can only know what you know, not what you don't. Unfortunately, you are not open to learning more and broadening your perspective and seem to think otherwise. Med students sure love their douching.:laugh:


Also, do you realize the magnitude of digoxin overdose consequences in a patient with worsening heart failure ? That's just some drug interaction to you ? 😕



It's ironic you talk about compensating, because how often do you see pharmacy students going into allo forum to remind you how useless we think you are in the lowliest and clueless of manners ?

Yep, that's what I thought.
 
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owlegrad said:
Well that was fun. Now what?
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Today my preceptor stopped me in the hallway an asked me to come in to talk to him. He was my patient for oral therapeutics exam - I argued and butted heads with him "the patient" during the actual exam because he refused to follow my theraupeutic recommendation for his anticoag.

I asked why he wanted to see me, he said because sometimes it's going to be not the patient arguing with your professional opinion but MD and you need to learn how to stand your grounds. I love that guy, best Pharm.D ever. 👍
 
See, I told you this **** would happen. Too many people give a **** about what other people think about them. Its like a ****ing cancer in healthcare. Imagine if everyone actually went to work and focused on patients and what is best for them without worrying what people thought of their talents. If the entire healthcare team just gave and took advice and recos without "lowering themselves" to listening to a non-MD...or caring about "receiving credit for a breakthrough in treatment"...

Who gives a **** about all of that prestige crap? See patient. Fix patient. That's all that should be in everybody's vocabulary. If I recommend something and an MD uses my advice, but never mentions where that advice came from...I don't really care. The use of that advice is implicitly agreeing that my idea was the best floating around out there. You did your job. You helped the patient. What more can you want?
 
ufpsu26 said:
I just know all of us know more about medicine than most Dr.'s.
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Sorry, I couldn't let this statement slide.

Pharmacists know more about MEDICATIONS than most doctors do. That's great, because that's why you go to pharmacy school.

"Medicine," however, is about more than just medications. Do you know when to order a CT scan? Or when that CT scan should have contrast or not? Do you know what preventative screening should be done in a baby who happened to be born breach? Do you know how to do a newborn well baby exam? Or how to read a fetal heart tracing? Or when a colposcopy is indicated and when it is not? Do you know the specific physical exam findings you would expect to see in a rotator cuff tear? How confident are you that you can pick up that subtle murmur? Can you read an EKG and tell me what that means? And how often have you had to walk a patient and their family on the road that leads them to accepting hospice, accepting DNR status? Or had to call CPS for one of your patients?

When patients talk to me, I listen. When nurses talk to me, I listen. When NPs talk to me, I listen. When pharmacists talk to me, I listen. I learn a lot by listening and thinking seriously about what they tell me. And yes, some doctors are egotistical d-bags who think that they know more than everyone around them and insist that the credit is all theirs. But, your insistence that "OMG PHARMACISTS DESERVE A LOT OF THE CREDIT TOO!!!!! <foot stamp, foot stamp>" makes you look like an egotistical d-bag-in-training.

You may think that you know more than most doctors, and may even have been told that. But, before you go around demanding respect, give a little respect too. All doctors worked just as hard (if not harder - how many COPD trainwrecks have you admitted after being awake for 22 hours straight?) as you did to get where they are.
 
smq123 said:
Sorry, I couldn't let this statement slide.

Pharmacists know more about MEDICATIONS than most doctors do. That's great, because that's why you go to pharmacy school.

"Medicine," however, is about more than just medications. Do you know when to order a CT scan? Or when that CT scan should have contrast or not? Do you know what preventative screening should be done in a baby who happened to be born breach? Do you know how to do a newborn well baby exam? Or how to read a fetal heart tracing? Or when a colposcopy is indicated and when it is not? Do you know the specific physical exam findings you would expect to see in a rotator cuff tear? How confident are you that you can pick up that subtle murmur? Can you read an EKG and tell me what that means? And how often have you had to walk a patient and their family on the road that leads them to accepting hospice, accepting DNR status? Or had to call CPS for one of your patients?

When patients talk to me, I listen. When nurses talk to me, I listen. When NPs talk to me, I listen. When pharmacists talk to me, I listen. I learn a lot by listening and thinking seriously about what they tell me. And yes, some doctors are egotistical d-bags who think that they know more than everyone around them and insist that the credit is all theirs. But, your insistence that "OMG PHARMACISTS DESERVE A LOT OF THE CREDIT TOO!!!!! <foot stamp, foot stamp>" makes you look like an egotistical d-bag-in-training.

You may think that you know more than most doctors, and may even have been told that. But, before you go around demanding respect, give a little respect too. All doctors worked just as hard (if not harder - how many COPD trainwrecks have you admitted after being awake for 22 hours straight?) as you did to get where they are.
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3 paragraphs of ranting because of semantics? The poster obviously meant "medicine" as in drugs, not "medicine" as in the profession of practicing medicine. Lordy.
 
smq123 said:
Sorry, I couldn't let this statement slide.

Pharmacists know more about MEDICATIONS than most doctors do. That's great, because that's why you go to pharmacy school.

"Medicine," however, is about more than just medications. Do you know when to order a CT scan? Or when that CT scan should have contrast or not? Do you know what preventative screening should be done in a baby who happened to be born breach? Do you know how to do a newborn well baby exam? Or how to read a fetal heart tracing? Or when a colposcopy is indicated and when it is not? Do you know the specific physical exam findings you would expect to see in a rotator cuff tear? How confident are you that you can pick up that subtle murmur? Can you read an EKG and tell me what that means? And how often have you had to walk a patient and their family on the road that leads them to accepting hospice, accepting DNR status? Or had to call CPS for one of your patients?

When patients talk to me, I listen. When nurses talk to me, I listen. When NPs talk to me, I listen. When pharmacists talk to me, I listen. I learn a lot by listening and thinking seriously about what they tell me. And yes, some doctors are egotistical d-bags who think that they know more than everyone around them and insist that the credit is all theirs. But, your insistence that "OMG PHARMACISTS DESERVE A LOT OF THE CREDIT TOO!!!!! <foot stamp, foot stamp>" makes you look like an egotistical d-bag-in-training.

You may think that you know more than most doctors, and may even have been told that. But, before you go around demanding respect, give a little respect too. All doctors worked just as hard (if not harder - how many COPD trainwrecks have you admitted after being awake for 22 hours straight?) as you did to get where they are.
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I agree, you obviously misunderstood. We can't even begin to fanthom your knowledge of medicine, you can't the knowledge of medicines, which is pretty much what you said. I don't think he is demanding respect either, he just wants to be not blatantly disrespected.

Logistically, I don't know why you along with other posters constantly use critical care emergency examples as examples of something we don't know how to do to somehow illustrate our "lack of hard work" or uselessness. We don't admitt patients and try to rescue them ! That's not within our scope of practice, never was, never will be - so why is this constantly brought up ? That's like me turning around and using example of something that is not within your scope of practice and then asking: " Can't do that, see how useless you are ? " What rationally thinking would be the point of that ? 😕 😕 😕

And for the record, correct me if I am wrong but you benefit from those 22 hours and are able to work them and either get paid or get hands on residency training out of it ? I couldn't work hard with my copders :laugh: for 22 hours straight at my internship even if I wanted to because of the difference in settings and logistics involved. So that's like comparing apples and oranges.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
See, I told you this **** would happen. Too many people give a **** about what other people think about them. Its like a ****ing cancer in healthcare. Imagine if everyone actually went to work and focused on patients and what is best for them without worrying what people thought of their talents. If the entire healthcare team just gave and took advice and recos without "lowering themselves" to listening to a non-MD...or caring about "receiving credit for a breakthrough in treatment"...

Who gives a **** about all of that prestige crap? See patient. Fix patient. That's all that should be in everybody's vocabulary. If I recommend something and an MD uses my advice, but never mentions where that advice came from...I don't really care. The use of that advice is implicitly agreeing that my idea was the best floating around out there. You did your job. You helped the patient. What more can you want?
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I hate myself for caring. More so, because threads like this provoke and worsen my anxiety in real life. I am already anticipating an army of medical students and residents showing up here. 😎
 
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cheburashka said:
Logistically, I don't know why you along with other posters constantly use critical care emergency examples as examples of something we don't know how to do to somehow illustrate our "lack of hard work" or uselessness. We don't admitt patients and try to rescue them ! That's not within our scope of practice, never was, never will be - so why is this constantly brought up ? That's like me turning around and using example of something that is not within your scope of practice and then asking: " Can't do that, see how useless you are ? " What rationally thinking would be the point of that ? 😕 😕 😕
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a) Not all COPD trainwrecks go to the ICU. Plenty go to the floor (as our last two COPDers from our practice have), so no, this is not a case of "Critical Care." If all your COPDers become automatic crit care admits, that's a problem - either your nursing staff sucks or your patients are SICK.

This is not an example of "OH I TAKE CARE OF SUCH SICK PATIENTS, I'M LIKE SUPERMAN," it's that, yeah, pharmacy school/residency is hard work, but so is medical school/residency. I mean, taking care of patients when you've been up for over 24 hours is a little strenuous. So telling me that pharm students are smarter than med students, or that you somehow work harder, is, I think, unfair to your med school colleagues. And I used the example, because I remember admitting a COPD trainwreck as an intern, at the 22 hour mark, and then having him die a couple of weeks later. He just sticks out in my head.

So I think that you've misunderstood MY post.

cheburashka said:
And for the record, correct me if I am wrong but you benefit from those 22 hours and are able to work them and either get paid or get hands on residency training out of it ? I couldn't work hard with my copders :laugh: for 22 hours straight at my internship even if I wanted to because of the difference in settings and logistics involved. So that's like comparing apples and oranges.
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b) For the record, no, I don't get paid extra for admissions that come in after a certain amount of time. I get paid a flat rate, as all residents do. I get paid the same whether or not I admit 12 patients or if I admit 2. I get paid the same whether I go home at 5 PM or whether I go home at 3 AM. Some anesthesia residencies DO pay extra for call, but this is not universal (and I'm not in anesthesia anyway).

Yes, there's "hands-on" training, but after your 6th COPD admission, the amount of "new learning" that you get is kind of...minimal. And I'm not complaining about it - residency is partly about education and partly just about work.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
3 paragraphs of ranting because of semantics? The poster obviously meant "medicine" as in drugs, not "medicine" as in the profession of practicing medicine. Lordy.
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I know! I'm surprised they had the time and energy to post such a rant while working 22 hour days. Amazing.
 
Can't we all just get along!??!?! I can expect these types of posts from a med student, but a senior mod and resident? I would expect more out of you. We're both subject matter experts and we should benefit from each other's strengths rather than tearing each other down. Can't believe this post is still going strong. Wish they'd just take it down.
 
CUpharmD2013 said:
Can't we all just get along!??!?! I can expect these types of posts from a med student, but a senior mod and resident? I would expect more out of you. We're both subject matter experts and we should benefit from each other's strengths rather than tearing each other down. Can't believe this post is still going strong. Wish they'd just take it down.
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I wouldn't say it's a rant so much as understandable venting of frustrations. While it our forum, it has to be disheartening to see so many people who really throw them under the bus. These discussions get out of hand very quickly - I'm certainly not innocent of it.

I agree with the rest of your post though - we should all just get along. The hyperbole and one-upmanship on these forums is incredible, considering how collegial I'm sure most of us are in real life. Here's to a better future.
 
smq123 said:
a) Not all COPD trainwrecks go to the ICU. Plenty go to the floor (as our last two COPDers from our practice have), so no, this is not a case of "Critical Care." If all your COPDers become automatic crit care admits, that's a problem - either your nursing staff sucks or your patients are SICK.

This is not an example of "OH I TAKE CARE OF SUCH SICK PATIENTS, I'M LIKE SUPERMAN," it's that, yeah, pharmacy school/residency is hard work, but so is medical school/residency. I mean, taking care of patients when you've been up for over 24 hours is a little strenuous. So telling me that pharm students are smarter than med students, or that you somehow work harder, is, I think, unfair to your med school colleagues. And I used the example, because I remember admitting a COPD trainwreck as an intern, at the 22 hour mark, and then having him die a couple of weeks later. He just sticks out in my head.

So I think that you've misunderstood MY post. .
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I didn't misunderstand you. I believe I understood you well. You listed examples of things that are clearly not within our scope of practice and I quote: " Do you know how to do a newborn well baby exam? Or how to read a fetal heart tracing? " to illustrate what ? That I am unable to do the things you listed ? 😕 Obviously. 😕 When has anyone said we are ? But to use these specific examples to illustrate our incompetancy makes no logical sense to me because we are incompetent in those things and no one is denying that. 😕 Also, who is telling you that we are smarter than med students ? Your entire rant is based no semantic misunderstanding and if you read the thread carefully it's full of med student posts suggesting we aren't good enough at saving lives.

As far as for the record statement, what I was kindly and nicely getting at is that you can't use something (22 hour work shift) that is an innate part of your training to illustrate shortcomings of the others' training for an entirely different program because of the differences in the work environment and because YOU signed up for that training that it is part of the profession you have chosen to pursue. You get the benefits ( be it knowledge since you don't get paid on per patient basis) and burdens of said profession. Pharmacy is an entirely different profession and good working schedule is one of its benefits. People go into this profession because WE DON'T have to work 22 hours straight admitting patients and because we often can't because it's an entirely different work environment. So I like said, you using that 22 hour example of your dedication to hard work against pharmacists not working 22 hours straight is and I am sorry to say this a logic fail because as I mentioned given the differences in work environments we most likely even would not be able to work 22 hours even if we wanted to.
 
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I think everyone got upset about the poster who said pharmacists don't save lives because we all know that we do. We do it in our own ways that is in the scope of our profession.

I'm not trained as a physician, but I have saved lives by preventing errors and improving the medication use system. I also rotate as a member of the code blue team -I've saved lives there too (Had an intern who was going to give a whole syringe of lidocaine out of the crash cart in an 13mo old). Part of my job is to help physicians do their job better. It isn't us versus them. We are trained to do different things and should work together.

The best way to get things done is not to worry who gets credit for doing them. I don't care if the patient knows I was the one who prevented the error because I know I helped. We have our own system for documenting interventions, so I end up getting credit for it through my managers. My administration appreciates the work we do because they are always looking to expand the pharmacist role in the hospital.
 
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KARM12 said:
I think everyone got upset about the poster who said pharmacists don't save lives because we all know that we do. We do it in our own ways that is in the scope of our profession.

I'm not trained as a physician, but I have saved lives by preventing errors and improving the medication use system. I also rotate as a member of the code blue team -I've saved lives there too (Had an intern who was going to give a whole syringe of lidocaine out of the crash cart in an 13mo old). Part of my job is to help physicians do their job better. It isn't us versus them. We are trained to do different things and should work together.

The best way to get things done is not to worry who gets credit for doing them. I don't care if the patient knows I was the one who prevented the error because I know I helped. We have our own system for documenting interventions, so I end up getting credit for it through my managers. My administration appreciates the work we do because they are always looking to expand the pharmacist role in the hospital.
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Totally agree, we should do our job and soon or later patients will realize that we can save their lives too.
 
I know we save lives and lead the way to a healthier world. That's fine with me.

As for MDs vs PharmDs...well, even in my own specialty, PharmD-IDs NEVER challenge an ID. They may tell a surgeon or a hospitalist that they can't get an antibiotic without ID approval, but until we as a group are able to tell the ID they can't get an antibiotic, the MD wins. When the chips are down, the MD always wins.
 
StewardshipDude said:
I know we save lives and lead the way to a healthier world. That's fine with me.

As for MDs vs PharmDs...well, even in my own specialty, PharmD-IDs NEVER challenge an ID. They may tell a surgeon or a hospitalist that they can't get an antibiotic without ID approval, but until we as a group are able to tell the ID they can't get an antibiotic, the MD wins. When the chips are down, the MD always wins.
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just out of curiosity , why would you tell the ID they can't get an antibiotic?
 
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