Venting!

[IamnotFreud]

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It is extremely annoying that coordinators are soooo incredibly rude and think they are someone. It is mind numbing!

I have called some programs requesting some info on rotations, etc. and some PCs are outright delusional. One of them told me that my PD and her can discuss what this program has to offer. Seriously? Who the heck is she? If anything, my PD would talk the PD there. Who does she think she is?

Another rude woman was like "Well I don't think we would be interested." Seriously? Who the heck are you to decide anything? These people are absolutely insane. It seems frequently that they have no clue and are too lazy to actual find information. I have been waiting 2 weeks for some of them to get back to me, I sent an email to the PD regarding some info and got an email in about 2 minutes with the information requested. Seriously?

I don't know what is wrong with these people.

 

[cheruka]

This was my experience as well when I was in m3. I tried calling, emailing. Not much luck. Unfortunately, only way you know for sure is by attending the interviews, doing auditions.

 

[IamnotFreud]

This was my experience as well when I was in m3. I tried calling, emailing. Not much luck. Unfortunately, only way you know for sure is by attending the interviews, doing auditions.

That's not the point though. My point is that they think they are someone, when they are so low on the totem pole it's not even funny. The rude remarks are ******ed. "We are not interested." So freaking stupid! Do they think that anyone cares about their opinions?

 

[gutonc]

That's not the point though. My point is that they think they are someone, when they are so low on the totem pole it's not even funny. The rude remarks are ******ed. "We are not interested." So freaking stupid! Do they think that anyone cares about their opinions?

This attitude of entitlement that you have is probably why people are reacting to you the way that they are. With behavior like this, I'm surprised you didn't get blackballed by every PC you encountered on the interview trail.

 

[IamnotFreud]

This attitude of entitlement that you have is probably why people are reacting to you the way that they are. With behavior like this, I'm surprised you didn't get blackballed by every PC you encountered on the interview trail.

I don't have an attitude of entitlement, I am extremely polite and courteous.

 

[Dwindlin]

I don't have an attitude of entitlement

It is extremely annoying that coordinators are soooo incredibly rude and think they are someone. It is mind numbing!

I have called some programs requesting some info on rotations, etc. and some PCs are outright delusional. One of them told me that my PD and her can discuss what this program has to offer. Seriously? Who the heck is she? If anything, my PD would talk the PD there. Who does she think she is?

That's not the point though. My point is that they think they are someone, when they are so low on the totem pole it's not even funny. The rude remarks are ******ed. "We are not interested." So freaking stupid! Do they think that anyone cares about their opinions?

If the bolded portions are how you really feel then you have got a gigantic entitlement problem. I don't care how polite you think you come across. If those are your actual opinions, people are not stupid and can likely see right through you.

 

[IamnotFreud]

If the bolded portions are how you really feel then you have got a gigantic entitlement problem. I don't care how polite you think you come across. If those are your actual opinions, people are not stupid and can likely see right through you.

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[DrMom]

So you really don't thing that the program coordinator knows anything about what the program has to offer? You think that is delusional?

I, too, think that it is unlikely that you're able to talk with the PC without it being apparent that you feel she's below you.

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[gutonc]

I doubt you or anyone else on here or anywhere think that, and I have never come across anyone who thinks that. I think that's why residents call each other by first name, yet we still refer to attendings/PDs as Dr. so and so.

I ask my students, residents and office staff to call me by my first name. I'm not so hung up on titles (and entitlement) as you appear to be.

And I guess we should have patients also call us by first name, since there is no distinction of anything.

I introduce myself to all my patients as Dr. Lastname, then tell them my first name. I let them decide what they want to call me. I don't really care. I've had my first name my whole life, the whole "Dr." thing is a relatively recent addition. It was good enough for the first 34 years, seems like it'll work for the rest of it as well.

 

[IamnotFreud]

You are the exception.

 

[gutonc]

You are the exception.

Actually, this is the standard at my institution. The surgeons still get all uppity about titles, but I called my PD by his first name from week 2 (after he repeatedly told everyone in the program to do so). The same goes for our attendings.

So I guess I'm not the one who's in the wrong.

I didn't say you were wrong. I just said you were being a whiny, entitled jerk. You really need to get over this and move on. You're wickedly bent out of shape over what amounts to one person being kind of rude on the phone.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Actually, this is the standard at my institution. The surgeons still get all uppity about titles, but I called my PD by his first name from week 2 (after he repeatedly told everyone in the program to do so). The same goes for our attendings.



I didn't say you were wrong. I just said you were being a whiny, entitled jerk. You really need to get over this and move on. You're wickedly bent out of shape over what amounts to one person being kind of rude on the phone.

I"m not bent out of shape, I was venting, as my post stated. While I respect people and treat people well when they treat me appropriately as well, I don't appreciate people who don't have much of a leg to stand on to be rude and have this air of superiority like they are the end all be all. I know everything wants to think they are the big boss, but that's just not reality.

Good for your institution if everyone calls everyone by their first name. I wouldn't do that as a non-atteding, I don't find it respectful. By the same token, I don't appreciate snooty PCs who think they are better than what they are, and that their opinions matter. Just like my opinions don't matter when certain decisions are made in the overall picture, what they think is irrelevant and I can't stand their snootiness and rudeness, particularly when there are some PCs who are just awsome, kind, helpful, and go above and beyond their job frequently, so I'm sure it can be done.

 

[shan564]

I think the reason why people are responding to you negatively is because you said things like "they think they are someone." That phrase implies that in order to be "someone," you have to be in a position of power. In other words, it dehumanizes people who are "low on the totem pole," as you say.

I agree that administrators and bureaucrats can often be difficult to deal with, and it's unbelievably frustrating when they obstruct our education/career in an attempt to showcase their power and/or avoid doing work (it's happened to me many times too). And some of them are so helpful that I feel the need to send them a cake (also actually happened before). But they're still "someone."

Now, you'll probably say "I didn't mean to suggest that she's not as much of a human as any other person." Of course you didn't mean that. The point is that, based on your choice of words, it seems like you do feel that way deep down... otherwise, you would have chosen different words. For instance, saying "it's ridiculous that she thinks that she can speak on behalf of the PD despite not having a strong understanding of how clinical medicine works" would have gotten the same point across without saying that her value is limited by her job title or her position "on the totem pole." And that's why people are complaining about your sense of entitlement.

By the way, I don't think that "we are all equal" is a liberal idea. It was in the Declaration of Independence. If you think that the phrase "we are all equal" is somehow related to your sociopolitical leanings, then you might be in the wrong country. I hear that India still has some semblance of a caste system... but it's quickly disintegrating in most of the urban areas...

 

[LucidSplash]

Listen to me closely. At most programs, PCs DO have a lot of influence and many of them have been in the same position for a very long time. They have the ear of the PD. They are also kinda like "Team Mom" for the residents, making sure all your various paperwork for various rotation sites is completed, making sure the PD signs any forms he needs to sign for various licenses and applications, keeping track of your requirements like ACLS etc and letting you know when it is time for you to renew your certifications. Frequently they are Notary Publics and you WILL have need of them for those services during residency unless you want to try and find time when you are NOT in the hospital and to pay someone else to fill that role. They are your first point of contact when you need a resource because they know who's who and who gets things done. After you leave residency, they are the point of contact for all the forms you will need every time you get licensed somewhere and for every credentialing form required at every hospital you will work at (and you will need them to get paperwork filled out every time you change jobs or add a new state or site).

The PC is not just a secretary but one of the biggest resources available to residents both during and after residency and many of them have a very close working relationship with PDs. You are on the wrong end of this argument and your best course of action is to adjust your thinking now before you get on the bad side of any more PCs.

 

[Dral]

I know you're just venting, but my PC knows a lot and is very helpful. My PD often directs us to her. It sounds like you're not giving PCs enough credit.

 

[IamnotFreud]

I know you're just venting, but my PC knows a lot and is very helpful. My PD often directs us to her. It sounds like you're not giving PCs enough credit.

Your PC may be great, my current program PC is also awsome and so was my previous PC, but MANY of them are rude.

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[LucidSplash]

PC's are in charge of paperwork and administrative things, we agree on that. That is, btw-their job description!!!! Who cares how long they have been in that position? If anything, that may imply that they have only that skill set, and that they can't move around if anything, which is a BAD thing. I have no clue why you are trying to make PCs equal the dept chair or something like that. I don't think it's a particularly challenging job, but if you'd like to make it so so you feel better, go ahead.

I am 100% right on this. If you think PCs can be rude and nasty, then that's pretty darn sad. I guess you like people who are unprofessional and have poor manners. I find that pretty sad.

If PCs are rude, they should be let go. Just as we are to be professional, so should they. I find your post absolutely and utterly ridiculous.

The gist of my post was that you have everything to gain by being on the good side of a PC and everything to lose by being on the bad side of one. Compared to a resident, they have much more sway and power. No one should be rude, resident or PC, but in the pissing contest you have much more to lose and thus are not in a position to be snotty to the PC. It doesn't really matter what you think of them but what they think of you means a lot for your present and future. I am suggesting you deal with the reality of the situation instead of inflating your position as a resident as though it actually means something more than it does.

 

[IamnotFreud]

The gist of my post was that you have everything to gain by being on the good side of a PC and everything to lose by being on the bad side of one. Compared to a resident, they have much more sway and power. No one should be rude, resident or PC, but in the pissing contest you have much more to lose and thus are not in a position to be snotty to the PC. It doesn't really matter what you think of them but what they think of you means a lot for your present and future. I am suggesting you deal with the reality of the situation instead of inflating your position as a resident as though it actually means something more than it does.

I think you are very much wrong on this.

 

[BADMD]

when they are so low on the totem pole it's not even funny

Blot this thought from your head. Program Coordinators frequently span program directors and make the program go. Their opinions on candidates can result in loss of an interview, being dumped from a rank list, or deciding not a take someone on rotation. Pissing off the PC gives a window into personality. Determining personality is one of those reasons why interviews exist. Tread lightly...

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[BADMD]

So while you want to, for some reason, make PCs also God-like,.

"God like?" Oh heavens no. There is a wee bit of room between "God-like" and "so low on the totem pole it's not even funny."

The PCs frequently have quite a bit of experience in the operations and management of the residency. They know the nuts and bolts. They also frequently know what will work and what won't.

But it goes beyond that. When I have dinner with someone and they are the nicest, sweetest person and then treat the waitress like crap, I know their true colors and don't want to deal with them. If you are a PITA to the PC and have issues dealing with them, I know you are likely going to a PITA resident and will probably have issues dealing with lots of people in the hospital. I also suspect some of the attitude you are getting back is some of what you are giving them.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Interesting how you put ALL the blame on one side vs. the other. How do you possibly reconcile the fact that the above stated interactions occurred in the same day, with me being the same person, and yet I got completely different responses?

 

[BADMD]

Interesting how you put ALL the blame on one side vs. the other. How do you possibly reconcile the fact that the above stated interactions occurred in the same day, with me being the same person, and yet I got completely different responses?

Honestly? Having read through these few posts and your responses, I don't really like you. You had me with your "who does she think she is?" from post one and your "so low on the totem pole..." which soon followed. Already I have you pegged as an elitest and entitled jerk. I can assure you that at least 3 other posters on this thread likely get the same feeling just through what you write.

I'm sure the 3 PCs that put up with you are kind enough to blow off the attitude. They probably will mention their interactions with you to the PD and aPDs.

 

[Dral]

Your PC may be great, my current program PC is also awsome and so was my previous PC, but MANY of them are rude. I'm not saying that she's not important as a human being, of course not. For forms, paperwork, etc of course I would go to the PC, but for real things. So while we are all human beings and on that level we are all important, and I agree on that level we are all equal, we are not all equal in other respects including professionally. So your PD might direct you to your PC for paperwork and what not (btw-the person's job, because that's what their role is), just like your PD might direct you to risk management if you are being sued because that's what they do, or to phlebotomy to draw a person's labs, your PD would not direct anything professionally to your PC.

So for a PD to think she can talk on behalf of the PD to someone else and be dismissive and rude like that, it's completely inappropriate and unprofessional. I would be embarassed if I was a PD to have that person as my PC, and I think he was based on his reaction.

I never said it was just paperwork related things.

Rudeness is bad I agree, but you really do come off as someone who looks down on staff you perceive as 'beneath' you.

As far as the 5 different responses, maybe some PCs have been told to handle thing that way by the PDs. That doesn't explain rudeness, but it could explain why things aren't handled how you assume they should be.

Also if you are trying to use the principle of 'common denominator' in your interactions, you should also apply it to the responses you see in this thread.

 

[mycatishuge]

OP is asking to be $hit canned.
To the OP: Your opinion does not matter. PCs are experts at what they do. Give them respect and you will get respected.
If I recall correctly, you have only completed an intern year of training. If for anything, you are the one at the bottom of dem totem poles. Yet, you have an aggressive, in-your-face attitude with several very well respected attendings that have tried to advise you. See a pattern here?

 

[shan564]

The greatest thing about this thread is that despite being told to the contrary by several different people, the OP insists that he/she is still "right" and everybody else is "wrong."

Also, SDN isn't the best place for venting. It's full of experienced and accomplished people who love to tell you that you're wrong. If you want to vent, talk to a friend in the real world...

 

[Perrotfish]

Nvm

 

[umean2tellme]

The greatest thing about this thread is that despite being told to the contrary by several different people, the OP insists that he/she is still "right" and everybody else is "wrong."

Also, SDN isn't the best place for venting. It's full of experienced and accomplished people who love to tell you that you're wrong. If you want to vent, talk to a friend in the real world...

I thought SDN was the real world...


Seriously, this thread was a great read. I always laugh when someone posts a thread thinking everyone of his online peers will take his side and validate his feelings. At the end of the day why does it matter if 2 PCs were rude to you? Just get over it. Any PD will clearly side with their PC over a resident. That goes for every specialty in every part of the US. Why would a PD value a resident who they don't know and will work with for a few years when they have a PC they know and trust and have worked with for a lot longer (in some cases over 20 years)? Residents are at the bottom of the totem pole, whether you like it or not. One day you'll be an attending and you'll finally be somebody in a hospital somewhere. Until then suck it up and move on 🙂

 

[KnuxNole]

It is extremely annoying that coordinators are soooo incredibly rude and think they are someone. It is mind numbing!

I have called some programs requesting some info on rotations, etc. and some PCs are outright delusional. One of them told me that my PD and her can discuss what this program has to offer. Seriously? Who the heck is she? If anything, my PD would talk the PD there. Who does she think she is?

Another rude woman was like "Well I don't think we would be interested." Seriously? Who the heck are you to decide anything? These people are absolutely insane. It seems frequently that they have no clue and are too lazy to actual find information. I have been waiting 2 weeks for some of them to get back to me, I sent an email to the PD regarding some info and got an email in about 2 minutes with the information requested. Seriously?

I don't know what is wrong with these people.

PCs are vital to residency apps though....it's not like they are useless nobodies. Besides, a lot of PCs are nice and friendly, and will probably save your butt in residency. Thankfully the PC of my upcoming residency seems like one of the nicest ladies I've met on the trail 🙂

 

[cheruka]

Most PCs do have a role in filtering the initial applications. So, be careful when you talk to them. They ARE something. Besides, as applicants ( I.e, beggars) we can not ask for too much.

 

[DrSnips]

I thought SDN was the real world...


Seriously, this thread was a great read. I always laugh when someone posts a thread thinking everyone of his online peers will take his side and validate his feelings. At the end of the day why does it matter if 2 PCs were rude to you? Just get over it. Any PD will clearly side with their PC over a resident. That goes for every specialty in every part of the US. Why would a PD value a resident who they don't know and will work with for a few years when they have a PC they know and trust and have worked with for a lot longer (in some cases over 20 years)? Residents are at the bottom of the totem pole, whether you like it or not. One day you'll be an attending and you'll finally be somebody in a hospital somewhere. Until then suck it up and move on 🙂

Being online at all pretty much guarantees people will disagree with you, peer or not.

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[IamnotFreud]

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[oldbearprofessor]

And again-if someone is at the same job for 20 years, that's a BAD thing, not a sign of something that's good. That means that person has minimal upward mobility and/or a limited set of skills. Again, a BAD thing.

[SDN watches OBP pitch his 20 year pin from the hospital and medical school in shame].

Actually, it usually means that someone has found a job that suits them and in which they are satisfied with themselves and the task they are doing.

I've been a full professor (see username) for over a decade. I have no interest in becoming a department chair and am happy with the job I have. Clearly, I am pathetic with few skills a faculty member gunning for chair should have.

 

[mycatishuge]

[SDN watches OBP pitch his 20 year pin from the hospital and medical school in shame].

+1
You win the internet for today.

 

[Sheldor]

This thread is in desperate need of a Big Lebowski meme...

 

[Dejavu]

their job is their job. They should do it well, like everyone else. They are vital to their job duh, because *gasp* it's their job!!! Just like lawyers are vital to risk management, because that's what they do, and how the neurosurgeon is vital to neurosurgery, because that's what they do.

At my school, one of the depts constantly replaced the PCs. It was easily done, not a big search for the next award winning nobel laureate. Why some of you are trying to make it as though a PCs job is so incredibly complicated is beyond me. It's a simple job, period.

And again-if someone is at the same job for 20 years, that's a BAD thing, not a sign of something that's good. That means that person has minimal upward mobility and/or a limited set of skills. Again, a BAD thing.

I'm just guessing here, but you've never been in the military. Everybody knows that the sargeants run things, and very well.

As for venting...

"Delusional, Outright delusional"
"Stupid, Freaking stupid"
"Insane, Absolutely insane"
"Sooo incredibly rude"
"Mind numbing"
"Have no clue"
"******ed"
"Horrendous attitude"
"Nutso Wacko"

Dude, Listen to yourself....

You might not be, but this thread makes you sound like a person who just met someone who doesn't immediately stroke your little I-grew-up-the-center-of-Mommy-and-Daddy's-universe ego and now you're hurt, because a PC probably IS higher on the food chain than you are as a resident.

I'm with the other guys, I don't like that kind of guy and I would never want to work with one, and unfortunately do.

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[IamnotFreud]

there!

 

[IamnotFreud]

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[IamnotFreud]

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[oldbearprofessor]

That's completely different. Hopefully as a neonatologist, you have more skills than your PC does, and hopefully can contribute a little more to the world.

Can you provide us with a detailed ranking of what careers contribute the most and the least to the world?

Please look at the words above my avatar. Officer Collier at MIT had limited advanced education and yet he, like all those who protect us, made a huge contribution to our world and gave his life for the protection of us and our children. Education does not equal contribution.

 

[IamnotFreud]

So you've completed your intern year already, but are not currently in training. You have a categorical position for July that you don't want and you're trying to find a position at another program. You had to rearrange your schedule to take care of "loved ones" with a terrible medical problem. What a mess. It sounds like it's been hard for you. You still don't have a right to act like an ******* and you aren't entitled to anyone giving you a look.

You are crazy.

 

[IamnotFreud]

I respect you OBP.

 

[IamnotFreud]

You are bitter.

 

[smq123]

Wow. Let's keep it civil, shall we? As a reminder, personal attacks are never allowed on SDN. If you can't keep it civil, I'm closing the thread.

My PC was vital to keeping the program running. If there was a problem, even with a malignant attending, you went to her first and she would listen to you vent. A lot of times, she took that feedback and gently told the PD, which led to a lot of positive changes in the curriculum. Like others have said, it was her mouth to the PD's ear. Or, like they said in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, the PD was the head....but the PC was the neck.

 

[xlithiumx]

Wow. Let's keep it civil, shall we? As a reminder, personal attacks are never allowed on SDN. If you can't keep it civil, I'm closing the thread.

Fair enough. I removed my contribution.

 

[Raryn]

Let's all be serious to the OP. What he should totally do is just email the PDs of the programs of interest and tell them *exactly* what he thinks of their delusional, ******ed, nutso wacko PCs. The PD will be so thankful that the almighty all-important resident brought the duplicity of his PC to his attention, he'll probably even send the OP's PD a note about how he deserves a commendation.