Venting!

[ioh]

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OP, it's clear many were put off by your statements. If I can offer some advice, it's that regardless of how someone else treats you (be it rude or otherwise), it's how you respond that defines your character. Also, regardless of how high your station in life, a little bit of humility goes a long way.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

 

[Dejavu]

I used to think that tantrums were not entertaining, but after this thread, I'll take that back.

 

[mycatishuge]

Maybe he'll go away if we all ignore him.

 

[mycatishuge]

.

 

[Top Gun]

I don't get it. If you have a great Ivy League program offering you an advanced position, in the field you want, I presume, why are you getting all bent out of shape over 2 "rude" PCs at other programs?

Oh, and by the way, as an attending, I would never assume my job is more important than anyone else's. Important, yes, but not more important. Some of the nurses at my hospital probably don't have as much education and training as I do, but if you ask me if I listen to their opinions when it comes to patient care, my answer will be you bet I do. They spend a lot of time with the patients, so they have pretty good insight. I will still do the diagnosis and treatment planning, but I will take their observations and opinions into consideration. I also notice you mentioned trash collectors as not being important. Has it ever occurred to you that without them, we would still be having epidemics of bubonic plague and typhus? Yeah. Those epidemics were caused by the infestation of rats and other vermin, who were attracted to, guess what, garbage. How about farmers? Many of them haven't even gone beyond high school, yet they still manage to feed the world's population. How about police and fire fighters? Again, a fancy education doesn't mean you contribute more to the world.

And as a resident, you should be very thankful for your PC's role. A PC is the glue that holds the residency program together. The PC is the one you will go to for assistance with credentialing and licensure, getting time off, getting LORs for fellowship, etc... And the PDs always listen to their PCs, because the PCs have been around for years and know what is going on with the program. And don't assume that their job is all that simple. It is a thankless task keeping things organized for a program with about 60 residents. And for what its worth, I had a PC who I thought was kind of abrasive at first. Guess what happened. She turned out to be like my second mom, and has done a lot for me, even after residency.

Seriously, I think a bit of humility on your part is in order.

 

[IamnotFreud]

I don't get it. If you have a great Ivy League program offering you a residency spot, in the field you want I presume, why are you getting all bent out of shape over 2 "rude" PCs at other programs?

For one, my residency is at an ivy league program. For two, the other offer is also at an ivy, but I cannot take it. Third, I was simply venting about rude people.

 

[billybob746]

 

[LucidSplash]

Based on posting history the OP is female (just for pronoun purposes).

That being said, I'm going to go ahead and call troll. Move along folks, nothing to see here. Even if this is not a constructed online personality, it is clear there is a total lack of insight which no one will be able to change via an online forum. I suggest that we all just breathe a sigh if relief that we are not the PCs interacting with this potential resident and go back to more substantive threads.

 

[Raryn]

I wonder what the actual banning offense was for the OP.

 

[colbgw02]

I used to think that tantrums were not entertaining, but after this thread, I'll take that back.

Tantrums are the best.

One of the things I love about SDN - and I mean this in all sincerity - is that people will continue to treat a poster with seriousness, honesty, and reason well past the point at which that poster deserves nothing more than mocking and derision.

This thread is a great example.

 

[KLPM]

Tantrums are the best.

One of the things I love about SDN - and I mean this in all sincerity - is that people will continue to treat a poster with seriousness, honesty, and reason well past the point at which that poster deserves nothing more than mocking and derision.

This thread is a great example.

They do?

 

[colbgw02]

This attitude of entitlement that you have is probably why people are reacting to you the way that they are. With behavior like this, I'm surprised you didn't get blackballed by every PC you encountered on the interview trail.

So you really don't thing that the program coordinator knows anything about what the program has to offer? You think that is delusional?

I, too, think that it is unlikely that you're able to talk with the PC without it being apparent that you feel she's below you.

I ask my students, residents and office staff to call me by my first name. I'm not so hung up on titles (and entitlement) as you appear to be.



I introduce myself to all my patients as Dr. Lastname, then tell them my first name. I let them decide what they want to call me. I don't really care. I've had my first name my whole life, the whole "Dr." thing is a relatively recent addition. It was good enough for the first 34 years, seems like it'll work for the rest of it as well.

Actually, this is the standard at my institution. The surgeons still get all uppity about titles, but I called my PD by his first name from week 2 (after he repeatedly told everyone in the program to do so). The same goes for our attendings.



I didn't say you were wrong. I just said you were being a whiny, entitled jerk. You really need to get over this and move on. You're wickedly bent out of shape over what amounts to one person being kind of rude on the phone.

I think the reason why people are responding to you negatively is because you said things like "they think they are someone." That phrase implies that in order to be "someone," you have to be in a position of power. In other words, it dehumanizes people who are "low on the totem pole," as you say.

I agree that administrators and bureaucrats can often be difficult to deal with, and it's unbelievably frustrating when they obstruct our education/career in an attempt to showcase their power and/or avoid doing work (it's happened to me many times too). And some of them are so helpful that I feel the need to send them a cake (also actually happened before). But they're still "someone."

Now, you'll probably say "I didn't mean to suggest that she's not as much of a human as any other person." Of course you didn't mean that. The point is that, based on your choice of words, it seems like you do feel that way deep down... otherwise, you would have chosen different words. For instance, saying "it's ridiculous that she thinks that she can speak on behalf of the PD despite not having a strong understanding of how clinical medicine works" would have gotten the same point across without saying that her value is limited by her job title or her position "on the totem pole." And that's why people are complaining about your sense of entitlement.

By the way, I don't think that "we are all equal" is a liberal idea. It was in the Declaration of Independence. If you think that the phrase "we are all equal" is somehow related to your sociopolitical leanings, then you might be in the wrong country. I hear that India still has some semblance of a caste system... but it's quickly disintegrating in most of the urban areas...

Listen to me closely. At most programs, PCs DO have a lot of influence and many of them have been in the same position for a very long time. They have the ear of the PD. They are also kinda like "Team Mom" for the residents, making sure all your various paperwork for various rotation sites is completed, making sure the PD signs any forms he needs to sign for various licenses and applications, keeping track of your requirements like ACLS etc and letting you know when it is time for you to renew your certifications. Frequently they are Notary Publics and you WILL have need of them for those services during residency unless you want to try and find time when you are NOT in the hospital and to pay someone else to fill that role. They are your first point of contact when you need a resource because they know who's who and who gets things done. After you leave residency, they are the point of contact for all the forms you will need every time you get licensed somewhere and for every credentialing form required at every hospital you will work at (and you will need them to get paperwork filled out every time you change jobs or add a new state or site).

The PC is not just a secretary but one of the biggest resources available to residents both during and after residency and many of them have a very close working relationship with PDs. You are on the wrong end of this argument and your best course of action is to adjust your thinking now before you get on the bad side of any more PCs.

I know you're just venting, but my PC knows a lot and is very helpful. My PD often directs us to her. It sounds like you're not giving PCs enough credit.

The gist of my post was that you have everything to gain by being on the good side of a PC and everything to lose by being on the bad side of one. Compared to a resident, they have much more sway and power. No one should be rude, resident or PC, but in the pissing contest you have much more to lose and thus are not in a position to be snotty to the PC. It doesn't really matter what you think of them but what they think of you means a lot for your present and future. I am suggesting you deal with the reality of the situation instead of inflating your position as a resident as though it actually means something more than it does.

Blot this thought from your head. Program Coordinators frequently span program directors and make the program go. Their opinions on candidates can result in loss of an interview, being dumped from a rank list, or deciding not a take someone on rotation. Pissing off the PC gives a window into personality. Determining personality is one of those reasons why interviews exist. Tread lightly...

"God like?" Oh heavens no. There is a wee bit of room between "God-like" and "so low on the totem pole it's not even funny."

The PCs frequently have quite a bit of experience in the operations and management of the residency. They know the nuts and bolts. They also frequently know what will work and what won't.

But it goes beyond that. When I have dinner with someone and they are the nicest, sweetest person and then treat the waitress like crap, I know their true colors and don't want to deal with them. If you are a PITA to the PC and have issues dealing with them, I know you are likely going to a PITA resident and will probably have issues dealing with lots of people in the hospital. I also suspect some of the attitude you are getting back is some of what you are giving them.

Honestly? Having read through these few posts and your responses, I don't really like you. You had me with your "who does she think she is?" from post one and your "so low on the totem pole..." which soon followed. Already I have you pegged as an elitest and entitled jerk. I can assure you that at least 3 other posters on this thread likely get the same feeling just through what you write.

I'm sure the 3 PCs that put up with you are kind enough to blow off the attitude. They probably will mention their interactions with you to the PD and aPDs.

PCs are vital to residency apps though....it's not like they are useless nobodies. Besides, a lot of PCs are nice and friendly, and will probably save your butt in residency. Thankfully the PC of my upcoming residency seems like one of the nicest ladies I've met on the trail 🙂

Most PCs do have a role in filtering the initial applications. So, be careful when you talk to them. They ARE something. Besides, as applicants ( I.e, beggars) we can not ask for too much.

[SDN watches OBP pitch his 20 year pin from the hospital and medical school in shame].

Actually, it usually means that someone has found a job that suits them and in which they are satisfied with themselves and the task they are doing.

I've been a full professor (see username) for over a decade. I have no interest in becoming a department chair and am happy with the job I have. Clearly, I am pathetic with few skills a faculty member gunning for chair should have.

Can you provide us with a detailed ranking of what careers contribute the most and the least to the world?

Please look at the words above my avatar. Officer Collier at MIT had limited advanced education and yet he, like all those who protect us, made a huge contribution to our world and gave his life for the protection of us and our children. Education does not equal contribution.

OP, it's clear many were put off by your statements. If I can offer some advice, it's that regardless of how someone else treats you (be it rude or otherwise), it's how you respond that defines your character. Also, regardless of how high your station in life, a little bit of humility goes a long way.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

I don't get it. If you have a great Ivy League program offering you an advanced position, in the field you want, I presume, why are you getting all bent out of shape over 2 "rude" PCs at other programs?

Oh, and by the way, as an attending, I would never assume my job is more important than anyone else's. Important, yes, but not more important. Some of the nurses at my hospital probably don't have as much education and training as I do, but if you ask me if I listen to their opinions when it comes to patient care, my answer will be you bet I do. They spend a lot of time with the patients, so they have pretty good insight. I will still do the diagnosis and treatment planning, but I will take their observations and opinions into consideration. I also notice you mentioned trash collectors as not being important. Has it ever occurred to you that without them, we would still be having epidemics of bubonic plague and typhus? Yeah. Those epidemics were caused by the infestation of rats and other vermin, who were attracted to, guess what, garbage. How about farmers? Many of them haven't even gone beyond high school, yet they still manage to feed the world's population. How about police and fire fighters? Again, a fancy education doesn't mean you contribute more to the world.

And as a resident, you should be very thankful for your PC's role. A PC is the glue that holds the residency program together. The PC is the one you will go to for assistance with credentialing and licensure, getting time off, getting LORs for fellowship, etc... And the PDs always listen to their PCs, because the PCs have been around for years and know what is going on with the program. And don't assume that their job is all that simple. It is a thankless task keeping things organized for a program with about 60 residents. And for what its worth, I had a PC who I thought was kind of abrasive at first. Guess what happened. She turned out to be like my second mom, and has done a lot for me, even after residency.

Seriously, I think a bit of humility on your part is in order.

They do?

Yes.