Venting

[droshan]

So i'm just really upset at this point. I freaking hate this process. I just got my third waitlist where I sent in a page long letter of interest/update but to no avail. I swear I'm the only idiot here that has this many waitlists but no acceptances. And yes I'm grateful for the interviews but what is the point of having an interview without an acceptance at the end of the day? I'm sorry for being so negative but i just need to vent this out.

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[Live4Life]

So i'm just really upset at this point. I freaking hate this process. I just got my third waitlist where I sent in a page long letter of interest/update but to no avail. I swear I'm the only idiot here that has this many waitlists but no acceptances. And yes I'm grateful for the interviews but what is the point of having an interview without an acceptance at the end of the day? I'm sorry for being so negative but i just need to vent this out.

I'm not trying to say that I know you or your situation, but with your stats, there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn't be accepted to any of the schools at which you are waitlisted. The only reason I can think about would be your interviewing, because if they didn't like something in your application (letters, activities, grades, MCAT, personal statement), then they probably would not have invited you for an interview. You should try to find a physician or adviser with whom you can practice interviewing. What is your interpretation of your previous interviews?

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not trying to say that I know you or your situation, but with your stats, there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn't be accepted to any of the schools at which you are waitlisted. The only reason I can think about would be your interviewing, because if they didn't like something in your application (letters, activities, grades, MCAT, personal statement, then they probably would not have invited you for an interview. You should try to find a physician or adviser with whom you can practice interviewing. What is your interpretation of your previous interviews?

Agreed, 100%, to a T.

 

[droshan]

Well at Case and Creighton I felt that things went well. I was full of confidence and maybe a little overconfident at Creighton. But when I went to Penn state it was a few days after I just found out about those waitlists so my confidence was shot. Consequently I didn't do very well w/ my first interviewer at Penn. The second interview was much much better. Knowing that, I sent a LOI to hopefully patch things up. I've had people mock interview me and they all say that if they were on the admissions board they would take me. And these are not friends or relatives.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

Just wait... I remember in another thread someone was cited to have been on 9 waitlists, and then in May, they finally got pulled and were subsequently accepted to an Ivy school. Keep holding on, and you are bound to get accepted. Good luck!

 

[fizzle]

Hey droshan,

Cheer up! I've been in your position before (actually worse; I had only one interview, period, in my entire last application cycle), so I know what you're going through. You still have quite a few interviews to hear back from, and I'm here to remind you that whatever happens, life goes on. In fact, my life is better than ever now that getting rejected once has given me a new perspective on the whole process. Good luck!

 

[droshan]

Thanks for the support guys. Its good to know there are others out there like me and that things turned out better in the end.

 

[DrYoda]

It's alright, I got 4 waitlist/holds and a rejection before I got accepted. I know it's stressful, but try and relax and enjoy the upcoming break. All you need is one and you've still got a few to hear from.

Good luck.

 

[bluesmd]

have you thought about LOInterests? i don't really know anything about them, but people on SDN seem to talk a lot about them and since it's post-interview I think it's ok to write them. i don't know if i would write them pre-interview. good luck! i hope you get one soon to feel like you at least have somewhere to go.

 

[fusionx22]

Dude, if I were on the ADCOM at one of those schools, I'd totally accept you. BC of your stats and ECs? Nope. BC of your avatar. I love it.

 

[airplanes]

Hang in there, and best of luck. Hopefully everything will turn out OK. At this point, I think the only option you have left is to submit some LOI's.

ps. Did no one else think about those cheesy Coors light commercials with the beer cans that "vent"?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Hang in there, and best of luck. Hopefully everything will turn out OK. At this point, I think the only option you have left is to submit some LOI's.

ps. Did no one else think about those cheesy Coors light commercials with the beer cans that "vent"?

No. I try to pretend Coors light doesn't exist. *shudder*

 

[RSAgator]

Hang in there, you've got pretty good stats and seemingly good EC's so there's no reason you shouldn't get in somewhere if you're a half decent interviewer.

 

[armybound]

Contact the schools to find out what your weakness is and start addressing it.

I applied 3 times before I got an acceptance. You're not the only one who feels like you do.

 

[RoadRunner17]

If there's anything I learned this application cycle, you need to SELL yourself. All of the interviews so far seem like they are conversational and relaxed- that doesn't mean you should just chill and talk about whatever the interviewer asks you. You need to guide the conversation to touch on the important points you want to make without appearing to dominate the conversation.

We've interviewed at both Penn State and Case Western - so this will be relevant to you...

I interviewed at Penn State first. It was my first real, relaxed conversation and in retrospect, I realize that I didn't sell myself as well as I could. I was mostly relaxing and responding to the interviewer's questions, which is part of what you are supposed to do, but I didn't go out of my way to tell them about how I would be a good match for their school. For whatever reason, I didn't do this and I think that was mainly responsible for my post-interview hold.

Then, a month and half later I got an interview at Case Western. During this time between interviews, I realized that I needed to do a better job of selling myself. Perhaps Case just made it a lot easier because I happen to be a great fit - but I made sure to touch on the particular points I wanted to make, and I felt I did a great job doing so. Even within the framework of the typical questions such as, why medicine, tell me about your research, why Case Western, I was able to continue to sell myself. And that's what its really all about. End result, acceptance.

This is coming from a guy with a slightly-above B+ GPA. So clearly, it's not my GPA that's selling me - if I'm relying on that, I'll be SOL. You have to give them other things to focus on.

 

[han14tra]

Take it from someone who got accepted into a competitive MD school with a 25 P (no waitlist..just accepted), you need to increase your ECs. Do some long-term health related experience and then get a letter. Send it to all the schools where you are waitlisted, and that should get you accepted. I looked at your MDapps, and questioned how you've really shown your interest in medicine. You have some experiences but nothing that seemed like a long-term commitment.

Intelligence wise you're there, now show you're interested in medicine.

 

[smeagol]

You're not alone.

I've interviewed at 5 schools since October. Have received 1 waitlist and just haven't heard back from the others.

What would really suck is if I received negative correspondence from the other four schools right before the holiday break

 

[MudPhudHopeful]

Dude, if I were on the ADCOM at one of those schools, I'd totally accept you. BC of your stats and ECs? Nope. BC of your avatar. I love it.

Lol, and I thought I was the only naruto fan on these boards.

 

[efitzpat]

You still have 3 more interviews! Its not over yet

 

[202781]

Something must be wrong with how you are interviewing.
Do you seem excited about each school (shown with inflection in your voice)
Do you ask VERY specific questions about each school.
Are you answering the interviewers questions...

basically do you know if there is something that you are lacking in terms of your interview skills?

 

[fizzle]

Something must be wrong with how you are interviewing.
Do you seem excited about each school (shown with inflection in your voice)
Do you ask VERY specific questions about each school.
Are you answering the interviewers questions...

basically do you know if there is something that you are lacking in terms of your interview skills?

I don't think you can necessarily blame a post-interview waitlist/rejection on a bad interview. The adcoms do go back to review the whole application again after the interview. Are we to assume that a third of interviewers are just that much better at interviewing than the other two thirds, especially taking into account the subjectivities between different interviewers?

From my own experiences, it seems as if the interviewer already has a good or bad impression of you before the interview based on your paper application, and your interview's purpose is only to confirm or question parts of your application.

 

[droshan]

To all the Naruto fans I love you. I had no idea there were anime fan on SDN.

I definitely see your point about the lack of medical experience. I think that is a huge weakness on my application. I recently started a shadowing program at USC and am shadowing an orthopedic surgeon as well. Also I'm doing a medical mission trip to Honduras for a week. Not much, but I'm hoping it will show my commitment to medicine.

I don't think my first three interviews I showed enough enthusiasm but I did try to steer the conversation towards what I wanted to say. I called and spoke to the Dean at Creighton and he said he didn't really see why the commitee didn't accept me so I should just send them updates. I'm hoping I did a better job at drexel and Mount Sinai. I have one more chance left at this point.

I have been sending LOI to these schools and and a letter of intent to mount sinai. I'm hoping tenacity will pull through. All I need is one...

Thanks for the support!

 

[JoltOfFuel]

To all the Naruto fans I love you. I had no idea there were anime fan on SDN.

I definitely see your point about the lack of medical experience. I think that is a huge weakness on my application. I recently started a shadowing program at USC and am shadowing an orthopedic surgeon as well. Also I'm doing a medical mission trip to Honduras for a week. Not much, but I'm hoping it will show my commitment to medicine.

I don't think my first three interviews I showed enough enthusiasm but I did try to steer the conversation towards what I wanted to say. I called and spoke to the Dean at Creighton and he said he didn't really see why the commitee didn't accept me so I should just send them updates. I'm hoping I did a better job at drexel and Mount Sinai. I have one more chance left at this point.

I have been sending LOI to these schools and and a letter of intent to mount sinai. I'm hoping tenacity will pull through. All I need is one...

Thanks for the support!

Lack of medical experience is a killer. I know some people with 3.7+ 34+ that didn't get in ANYWHERE due to their lack of experience (as cited by the adcoms/admissions office). At least you'll have some experience to talk about, so hopefully that won't hurt you.

Good luck, I know this process sucks hard.

 

[alibai3ah]

Hang in there, and best of luck. Hopefully everything will turn out OK. At this point, I think the only option you have left is to submit some LOI's.

ps. Did no one else think about those cheesy Coors light commercials with the beer cans that "vent"?

Haha those commericials are terrible....but its better than the "drinkability" ones....

 

[bluesmd]

good luck droshan. you said that you tried to 'steer' the convo? i heard this is a no-no. just answer the questions that are relevant, expand only with relevant info. if you try to force the direction of the convo it might not seem natural. just a thought. just be yourself. i wish you the best.

 

[202781]

I don't think you can necessarily blame a post-interview waitlist/rejection on a bad interview. The adcoms do go back to review the whole application again after the interview. Are we to assume that a third of interviewers are just that much better at interviewing than the other two thirds, especially taking into account the subjectivities between different interviewers?

From my own experiences, it seems as if the interviewer already has a good or bad impression of you before the interview based on your paper application, and your interview's purpose is only to confirm or question parts of your application.

I REALLY think that the interview has TONS of importance after you have gotten the interview. I would even venture to say that after you have gotten the invite that the applicants are on the same foot at that point. The interview will make or break you.

I dont have great stats. They are pretty average. But I am VERY good at interviewing (so I have been told by two different schools point blank). I think that is why I have gotten in (That and the personal statement.) It was absolutely not my stats that blew them out of the water.

 

[ruraldr]

For sakond and those who feel they interview strongly--do you mind sharing thoughts on what make your interviews strong?

How do you balance advocating for yourself with being humble?

How do you affirm that the interview is going well/poorly?

 

[fizzle]

I REALLY think that the interview has TONS of importance after you have gotten the interview. I would even venture to say that after you have gotten the invite that the applicants are on the same foot at that point. The interview will make or break you.

I'm no adcom member so everything I say is just based on applicants' experiences. However, I've seen far too many anecdotes of interviewers and adcoms telling a post-interview rejected applicant that his/her GPA/MCAT was too low, or his/her application didn't stand out, to believe that the interview is the be-all-end-all. Sure, it is important, but it's far from being the most important factor in admissions. As I've said before, interviewers often seem to come into an interview with a predisposition towards the applicant already. Even if the interview was the deciding factor, the interviewer's impression from the paper application still will have a significant effect enough in some cases to mostly determine an applicant's chances before the interview has even occurred.

Adcoms are not going to view a 3.6/30 and a 4.0/40 equally coming in to an interview.

 

[202781]

Adcoms are not going to view a 3.6/30 and a 4.0/40 equally coming in to an interview.

Yeah I totally agree with that. But I dont think that a 3.6/30 and 4.0/40 typically going to be interviewing at the same place (usually).

On the other hand I think once you are at an interview a 3.6/32 and a 3.8/34 are going to be viewed in pretty much the same light.


People who have been interviewing me have said that beyond listing activities and saying how awesome you are...one should remeber to be humble and state their activities and after telling the interviewer about their activities should state WHAT THEY LEARNED from the experience. I often tell my interviewers how much trouble I had with some of the volunteer experiences I have had (for example how difficult and frustrating it was working with developmentally disabled children).

This makes you sound like a real person who is capable of identifying your own flaws and able to really gain a lot from your experiences.

 

[efitzpat]

For sakond and those who feel they interview strongly--do you mind sharing thoughts on what make your interviews strong?

How do you balance advocating for yourself with being humble?

How do you affirm that the interview is going well/poorly?

I believe that I interview strongly, and was even told that at one of my interviews.
The key for me has been to relax. As for as advocating for myself while remaining humble, I'm not sure this is a conscious thing that I think about. I definitely don't say "Listen, I'm pretty awesome so this is just a formality, right?" But I do try to insert my strengths in the context of the school. THis is a good way, I think, to also show your interest in the school. The best way to know about the school, in my opinion, is to stay with a student host the night before. So that way any unanswered questions or information not on the website can be ascertained. So for example, I had a lack of volunteer experience on my app. Instead of just ignoring it, I stated my personal qualities that attract me to community service, and illustrate how the school's resources would help me be involved. I also think out my answers and try to be as logical as I can.
I have a lot of experience in public speaking and the like and I think that really helps me remain composed and speak clearly and concisely. I did one practice interview with a friend where I just wrote down every single question I could think to be asked. The point wasn't to answer the questions, but to see any issues with the way I talked or presented myself. For instance, that is how I learned that I kept tucking my hair behind my ears too much. So I pulled it back and it wasn't a problem anymore.

As far as how I know that the interview is going well? I've had a lot of positive feedback from my interviewers. They'll either make a comment that my answer was very good or something to that effect. Also, just like any other conversation, I can gauge the level of awkawrdness.

Good luck!

 

[Live4Life]

For sakond and those who feel they interview strongly--do you mind sharing thoughts on what make your interviews strong?

How do you balance advocating for yourself with being humble?

How do you affirm that the interview is going well/poorly?

I would have to say that I agree with sankondbest. The interview is your chance to tell the school why their next class wouldn't be complete without you. For those that are still undergrads and haven't worked in the real world, do not underestimate the importance of the interview. I am someone with extremely average stats, but I am a non-trad and I have a lot of stories to tell. Think of your interview as a chance to be a story teller, do you want to listen to someone who is a good or bad story teller? If you listen to the exact same story told by two different people and one is really bad at conveying the message and one has you so captivated that you are sitting on the edge of your seat, who do you think is going to be remembered? The way a story is told can completely change how it is interpreted by the audience. I always try to balance advocating for myself while being humble, but just remember that the interview is your chance to sell yourself, not be modest. Do not be arrogant or cocky, but also don't hold back on telling them what makes you so unique that you would provide a much needed perspective that few other applicants can provide.

Also, I think that steering the conversation is perfectly fine if you know what you are doing and actually have something important to talk about. Don't just go off on a tangent, but if the interviewer isn't asking you questions that provide you with prompts that allow you to discuss what you feel is important, it is your duty to find a way to gently steer the conversation until its appropriate for you to bring up what you want to say.

As for the question "how do you affirm that the interview is going well/poorly?", at each of the five interviews I have been on so far, the interviewer said something along the lines of "it was a pleasure meeting you and I really look forward to advocating on your behalf in front of the admissions committee, you've made my job really easy". Each time I have heard that, the outcome has been what I've expected. I'm not saying that numbers do not mean anything. At certain schools, I am positive that numbers make all the difference, but my experience has shown me that numbers get you the interview, and your experiences, perspective, and vision/goals get you the acceptance.

 

[aznb0y129]

For sakond and those who feel they interview strongly--do you mind sharing thoughts on what make your interviews strong?

How do you balance advocating for yourself with being humble?

How do you affirm that the interview is going well/poorly?

My current supervisor told me that I am a very strong interviewer (he chose me over 20+ applicants for this job) and I am currently 1 for 1 in terms of acceptances/post-interview decisions rendered, so at the very least, I'm a decent interviewer.

My personal feeling is that while you are there to sell yourself, you are not a salesman and the interview is not a pitch session. I think the most important thing you can do is be prepared for the interview. That means knowing your AMCAS and secondary applications front and back. Also, rehearse, but don't script, your answers to questions you are decently sure are coming (why medicine, why X institution, etc.) Make sure you do at least some basic research about the school (history, major accomplishments, etc.) from their website just in case they ask you school-specific questions. Finally, KNOW YOUR RED FLAGS. They are likely to come up and you want to be able to explain why they shouldn't affect your candidacy. By doing this preparation, you are less nervous during the interview and sound more confident in your delivery of your responses to the questions.

In terms of selling yourself, make it sound like what you've done so far is important but not revolutionary (which is true for most people). Try and frame your responses in terms of "I" or "we" and use more active verbs in describing activities (managed, supervised, recruited, conducted as opposed to participated, attended, observed, etc.). Don't be overly humble because if you think what you was unimportant, chances are the adcom will too.

I typically gauge the strength of the interview by observing the interviewer. If they look bored or uninterested, obviously those are not great signs. If it's part of your disposition, try to be funny (appropriately so of course) to lighten the mood and make the interview more enjoyable. That's all I can think of right now, but feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

 

[bluesmd]

about steering the conversation, i just wanted to say that DON'T try to steer your conversation and forcing a rehearsed piece that you feel like you have to get in. but yeah, if the interviewer isn't giving much, you have to do more work.

 

[droshan]

You guys are making me feel as if I didn't do well at my other 2 interviews either...crap! In one interview she asked me if I had any questions but instead I asked her if I could talk about two important activities on my application that weren't mentioned. Bad call? I just didn't want her to leave the room w/o knowing these two major experiences in my life.

 

[Live4Life]

You guys are making me feel as if I didn't do well at my other 2 interviews either...crap! In one interview she asked me if I had any questions but instead I asked her if I could talk about two important activities on my application that weren't mentioned. Bad call? I just didn't want her to leave the room w/o knowing these two major experiences in my life.

You wanting to talk about those two activities is fine, but try to work it into the conversation more naturally. If your activity was building a house, you could say "does this school have any opportunities for groups of students to work on local houses through habitat with humanity? I've recently found its a passion of mine and I've really taken an active role lately, blah blah blah, give an example of the active role", then let the interviewer tell you about if they offer it and if they don't, they might suggest that you start it if you come there. Just try to find a natural way to work it into the conversation instead of just coming straight out and saying, "I would rather use this time to tell you about something that wasn't on my application".

 

[bluesmd]

yes, this is exactly what i mean by going off a bad tangent. i'm not trying to be mean or anything, but what you did shows:
1. that you don't follow instructions
2. it may seem like you are arrogant
3. kind of awkward, doesn't help with conversational flow, may seem like you stage things and practised too much.
i undestand that these may be important activities to you, but they want to get to know you. you want to paint yourself in the best light, but all interviewees have excellent applicants gpa, mcat and activities. you might have some good activites but others will have better. it's just how the world works. to nail your other and hopefully more interviews, be outgoing, passionate about medicine and the school. you want to be the one that the interviewer is like, wow, i want them to be at this school and it's all about the personality. good luck!

 

[droshan]

Crap, i'm a *****. I should have let things take their course. Oh well, most likely another waitlist/rejection in the mail...

 

[Live4Life]

Don't worry about it, it wasn't a fatal error. Good luck, I'll be rooting for you.

 

[bluesmd]

don't think about it, just hope for the best! at least you weren't like that person who said that x is the first choice at school y

 

[droshan]

Thanks guys. I'll try to keep my head up.

 

[Anatidae]

Since everyone has covered a lot of issues on how to approach the content of the interview, I think it's also important to be aware of the psychological element to the interaction between you and the interviewer as well. You could say the most brilliant things in the world, but if you can't create some form of relationship where they want to listen to, then it might not matter what you say at all.

I would be cognizant of your eye contact, your hand gestures, your posture. Also check the tone, volume, and pacing of your responses. If you're looking down at the floor or breaking eye contact, if you don't use your hands naturally, or if you're slouching or laid back too much, then it'll be hard for you to convey confidence and appear passionate - two elements I think every interviewer looks for.

Not to say that these are the reasons why anyone gets waitlisted or not, but I think these subtleties are the real difference between people that are great at interviews and those that just get by.

 

[fizzle]

Since everyone has covered a lot of issues on how to approach the content of the interview, I think it's also important to be aware of the psychological element to the interaction between you and the interviewer as well. You could say the most brilliant things in the world, but if you can't create some form of relationship where they want to listen to, then it might not matter what you say at all.

I would be cognizant of your eye contact, your hand gestures, your posture. Also check the tone, volume, and pacing of your responses. If you're looking down at the floor or breaking eye contact, if you don't use your hands naturally, or if you're slouching or laid back too much, then it'll be hard for you to convey confidence and appear passionate - two elements I think every interviewer looks for.

Not to say that these are the reasons why anyone gets waitlisted or not, but I think these subtleties are the real difference between people that are great at interviews and those that just get by.

I've been wondering about the subjective versus the objective side of the interview (the "how it was said" versus the "what was said") too. I know that both are important, but I wonder which one schools place more emphasis on. I know that I tend to be the type that is strong on the subjective side (entertaining conversations!), but I think I'm pretty weak on the objective side (I say some pretty stupid things that, when I tell friends/family that I said, they tell me it was a dumb thing to say). I'm thinking the subjective side makes us feel like we did a good job coming out, but the objective side is the part that's actually written down and remembered by the interviewer. Which means that I'm pretty screwed

 

[202781]

I think showing some sort of vunerability is key. Talk about how difficult it was to see/ do the things you did...what you learned from those experiences...and how THE SCHOOL you are interviewing at can address those concerns or will work with you to train you to become a physician that can deal with those concerns.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I've got one, possibly two waitlists (pending the correspondence I'm awaiting from Temple) and stats very close to the OP. Yes, this freaking sucks.

Also, I'm getting married on May 22, and all my family is coming. All I can think about is how embarassing it would be to tell them all, "Well, I couldn't get into medical school, so I'm taking another year of post-bacc..."

My problem is that I'm a career changer, and at every single one of my interviews I have to spend half the time justifying why I didn't stick with what I was doing before (completely unrelated to medicine btw) and why medicine would be the best career for me. If I had more time to sell myself and less time to explain my past mistakes, interviewing would be much easier.

All I can say is...if I need to apply next summer, I'm applying to podiatry schools too.

 

[sirius08]

Hey OP, I'm 5 for 5 on waitlists. You're not alone. Just keep learning and giving each interview your very best.

 

[AZFutureDoc]

Stop whining and be happy for what you have so far. I would kill to be in your shoes right now. Its way better than no acceptances, state school interviews only, no holds even.

 

[njbmd]

So i'm just really upset at this point. I freaking hate this process. I just got my third waitlist where I sent in a page long letter of interest/update but to no avail. I swear I'm the only idiot here that has this many waitlists but no acceptances. And yes I'm grateful for the interviews but what is the point of having an interview without an acceptance at the end of the day? I'm sorry for being so negative but i just need to vent this out.

Most folks who are waitlisted at this point, are likely to gain acceptance in the long run. It's far better to have three waitlists than three rejections. Vent if you like but let the negativity go for now. If it were February and you were on three waitlists, I would be less optimistic but in December, there is still loads of time left in the season and lots of shifting around before things are done for this year. There are still many, many folks waiting for that first interview.

I know this doesn't make you feel any better but you really are in better shape than those with no interviews at this point. Even those folks with no interviews at this point should not be pessimistic. There is still lots of time left.

 

[fizzle]

.