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Verbal Riddle...

Discussion in 'MCAT Discussions' started by chandler742, Jul 28, 2002.

  1. chandler742

    chandler742 Senior Member

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    One of the posts that I read before was concerning the extremely high scores on the MCAT i.e. 15 on BS, 15 on PS.

    Yet, no one has received a 15 on VERBAL in over 5 years(I verified by calling MCAT 319-337-1357). The highest score is a 13-15.

    So, I pose this question out to the SDN cross section of students i.e. pundits, ignoramus, charlatans, and intellectuals.

    Why can no one score a 15 on the VERBAL when over 30,000+ students take the exam every year?
     
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  3. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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    Because 15 is not an available score. The top score, more than likely meaning you have every question correct or one or two incorrect by the time the scaled scores reach 13.

    They are changing the test next year so that 13, 14, and 15 are available scores. One way they could do this is to make the verbal harder so that fewer people can score perfectly on it.
     
  4. Doctor Octopus

    Doctor Octopus Hospitalist

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    As the mcat stands now, the test is unable to distinguish between the top 1-2% on verbal. They are redesigning the verbal
    section by adding several harder questions that supposedly will enable them to score 13, 14, and 15 starting april 2003. They are also shortening it to 60 questions.
     
  5. chandler742

    chandler742 Senior Member

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    Actually, a 15 is an available score(I talked to a MCAT representative).

    It is just that no one has earned a 15. Therefore, a 13-15 is actually a 13. However, they are not ruling out the possibility the person could have earned a 15.

    I posed my original question to the MCAT people and they said they could not answer that question because it is confidential. However, they did say a 15 is possible.
     
  6. chandler742

    chandler742 Senior Member

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    So let me get this straight. You are saying that by having 5 fewer questions one can increase the separation of the top 1 or 2 percent.

    Wouldn't adding 5 questions make more sense if you want to separate the top scores.

    As for you second claim, how can one judge whether a question is hard or easy before the exam is administered. Are you implying that the MCAT has an experimental section so they can field test questions for future MCAT examinations?
     
  7. Doctor Octopus

    Doctor Octopus Hospitalist

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    No, I am not saying that by having five fewer question one can increase the separation of the top 1-2%. The more difficult questions are supposed to do that. I don't think that the total number of questions is all that important.

    It is not currently possible to recieve a 15 on verbal, no matter what they told you. A few people might have scored in the top .1%, but they would still get a 13-15 on their score report.

    Why is it impossible to tell if a question is more difficult? They have tons of data about which types of questions are more difficult.
     
  8. Doctor Octopus

    Doctor Octopus Hospitalist

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  9. Doctor Octopus

    Doctor Octopus Hospitalist

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    and they do use questions in multiple administrations. There is a pool of passages that they draw from. It's my understanding that they periodically retire some passages, and add new ones to the pool. Practice aamc tests are composed of retired questions. In another thread someone mentioned that they have a system so that re-testers won't get any of the same passages.
     
  10. Mudd

    Mudd Charlatan & Trouble Maker

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    Perhaps because I am an ignoramus and charlatan, I am not mentally developed enough to decipher beyond the contradictions here. It seems to me that you are saying it's all highly confidential, a representative in Iowa has access to statistical information handled in Washington D.C., and you were able to pull a Jedi mind trick to get a fact out of them. I am impressed that you were able to extract score information from the site that handles the registration and administration aspects.

    You are truly amazing Chandler, and without a doubt the smartest person in the entire world. I think it's remarkable that you would share with us the secrets of how to contact people by phone and then teach us how to understand the complicated message you are sharing. Thank you so much oh brilliant one.

    I hope I don't offend your deity-like ego here, because I actually have a few pieces of highly confidential information available exclusively to people with opposable digits and coordination skills high enough to type their web address. Despite the limitations caused by my neo-Cambrian development, I was able to access the information as well. Also, I called a few years ago for statistics, and the representative at the Iowa number told me that all statistical information was available at their Washington D.C. office, where they were in charge of that aspect of the exam. They told me to speak to Jack Hackset, the person most qualified (besides you of course) to tell me about the exam scoring. I had to obtain information through that channel. I think it's just amazing that you could pull the Jedi mind trick on the Iowa person and get an answer.

    Anyhoo, here is what I learned from Mr. Hackset:

    In April of 1991, there were a substantial number of perfect verbal raw scores. This truncated the top of the distribution. Their solution was to assign a 13-15 to the entire group. Since that time, to maintain uniformity for people applying to medical school from different administration of the MCAT, they have maintianed that same scale maximum.

    There is nothing more and nothing less according to him, but apparently you have discovered a deeper conspiricy going on. I suspect you know that all scoring was actually done by Arthur Anderson and they are trying to keep it a secret. I do hope you share, although I doubt I have the cerebral development necessary to comprehend your brilliance.

    So, based on what Mr. Hackset told me, I can onyl assume that the shift to a new test, whether it be out of 60 questions or 1000 questions, forces the issue to establish a new curve. I have no idea about the plans to include a few harder verbal questions to separate the top students, but I do know that they are free to set a new curve now. I also know that Doc Oct is 100% correct in his assessment of the statistics associated with an exam. The fact that they can quantify how many students choose an answer and make the quantum leap to determine that more errors are associated with harder questions is amazing, but I suspect that as Doc Oct suggests, that is exactly what they'll do.

    NOTE to everyone besides Chandler
    I apologize for the sarcastic tone (one that is out of character at a site where people help one another), but I find this pompous windbag to be annoying, and feel that such a reply as this is warranted each time he posts his drivel. Please accept my apology if my tone does not match the feel good nature of the site and the caring attitude that Tweetie sets.
     
  11. chandler742

    chandler742 Senior Member

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    Mudd, I don't know you personally. So, I question your passion. I don't have anything negative to say to you because, I have never met you so I don't know you. Besides, I believe this post is about MCAT related topics.

    As for your sentiments, I will not reply. The individuals on the board will read our posts and decide on their own accord.

    I don't believe negative energy is conducive.

    Good Luck on your future endeavours.

    Also, put me on your IGNORE list. So, my posts will not be able to bother you again.
     
  12. Mudd

    Mudd Charlatan & Trouble Maker

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    Thanks for the olive branch. I never would have suspected such a thing after your replies in other threads. Nevertheless, I have to respectfully decline. This is not about knowing each other, it's about attitude. This is the third thread in which I have seen you march in with an arrogance that I find annoying. I do not wish to put you on an ignore list, because quite frankly, this sort of exchange is highly entertaining for me. Every time you come in cocky and telling people how it is, yet you have only some of the facts, I plan to join in.

    I believe you are a smart person, as I suspect everyone here is. But the entertainment value lies in the superior attitude your posts exude. I personally have no issue with you and don't know you, etc..., but why should that exclude me from calling bull**** when you pop in with a pompous question? You like riddles, so have fun with that one.
     
  13. limit

    limit Molesting my inner-child

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    This flustering poppycock is truly fascinating. Chandler, your posts are as contradictory as they are controversial. The last thing students-in-mcat-training need is dumb meaningless **** blabbered back and forth at them. Is there a purpose to this at all? I highly doubt anyone is taking time out from their studies to solve portentous riddles. If you've got such a good grasp on perfection, perhaps you have some advice for us on how to achieve it?
     
  14. Bikini Princess

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    No offense, but this is absolute rubbish. The highest possible score on verbal is a 13-15. Come April 2003, scores of 14, 15 will be available again, but the test will be more difficult.
     
  15. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    Guys, play nice. What does this look like, an affirmative action thread or something? :laugh:
     

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