Very Confused :(

[SyrianHero]

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I asked this question in the "pre medical allopathic" forum but I was told that it would be better suited on the "non trad" forum so here is goes: Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring (with 175 credits) and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

 

[DrMidlife]

Two things.

First, the average med student is 24, doesn't know jack, and can't comprehend that they don't know jack. The average med student didn't get into med school on a GPA comeback, and probably doesn't even know that's possible, thus has no useful info about getting into med school on a GPA comeback.

Second, when somebody knows you (teachers, bosses, close adult friends, adult relatives) and expresses doubt that you could/should do medicine, that's worth listening to. (Not taking as gospel, but listening.) People who don't know you very well don't get to vote.

Best of luck to you.

 

[RHeff]

I asked this question in the "pre medical allopathic" forum but I was told that it would be better suited on the "non trad" forum so here is goes: Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring (with 175 credits) and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

Don't let the [your word choice here] keep you down. If medicine is something you really want to do, go for it. Plenty of people here will tell you the GPA is too low for MD - but if you're going to take courses after graduation then you have plenty of opportunities to give it a (little) boost. Apply broadly - and include DO schools. Chase the dream!

 

[SyrianHero]

Any other opinions/comments about this? I appreciate all the insight

 

[DrMidlife]

graduating this upcoming spring (with 175 credits) and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT.

Your GPA won't get up into competitive range. Simple math. Start reading the low GPA threads, and learn about SMPs, to educate yourself about what you can do.

Best of luck to you.

 

[SyrianHero]

So you think I could get accepted to a SMP (cinci, toledo, georgetown) despite low GPA? I mention those because they're reliable in the sense that if you do well then you'll most likely land a position in a med school somewhere

 

[theseeker4]

So you think I could get accepted to a SMP (cinci, toledo, georgetown) despite low GPA? I mention those because they're reliable in the sense that if you do well then you'll most likely land a position in a med school somewhere

SMPs generally accept people with lower GPAs but good MCAT scores. Excell in the pre med classes you still need and then begin prepping for the MCAT. Once you have an MCAT score, you can look at where you will be competitive and what your best choice is. Also, look into DO grade replacement, and schools that will disregard poor prior performance in favor of recent strong science course work (Wayne State is one).

 

[CurlsandPearls]

I asked this question in the "pre medical allopathic" forum but I was told that it would be better suited on the "non trad" forum so here is goes: Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring (with 175 credits) and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

I'm in a similar situation as you (GPA, discouraging advisers/friends, etc) and the information that you get from just searching/reading these forums is great. I go to a huuuuuuge university (40,000+ undergrads) in Florida so pre-med advisers are practically useless and tend to be discouraging (maybe to weed people out?). Don't give up.

Edit: Also, I remember a few days ago I read about how when you're trying to repair your GPA/trying to make a comeback that from now on it's important to maintain a 3.6+ per semester GPA to really show an upward trend.

For example, this is a graph of my GPA by semester in college so far:

The blue line graphs my actual GPA, red dotted line is the moving average, and then the green line you see is the linear trend line. See how my actual grades do go up from point 5 through 9, but the trend line is straight across - that's bad even though my grades have gone up.

This is what happens if my semester GPA for the next three semesters is 3.5-3.6+:

You can see how the actual trend line continues to slope upward.

So, my personal goal is to get that trend line as high as possible, no matter how much I have to struggle. Anyway, good luck!

 

[ComfortCreature]

All the advice has been great in this thread. I had a job interview with a guy that told me I was crazy if I thought I could get into med school with a 3.4 GPA (this was only half way through undergrad, mind you) and he doesn't know a thing about applying, etc.

Also, most people just don't know a lot about the process. A friend of mine occasionally asks me how my residency is going- not as a joke, but because he doesn't know all the steps in the process that I haven't taken to get to that point (steps that we premeds obsess over).

Lastly, how were your last two years of undergrad in terms of grades? The AMCAS system doesn't calculate GPA like you normally would, which you may already know by now.

 

[Back 5]

I asked this question in the "pre medical allopathic" forum but I was told that it would be better suited on the "non trad" forum so here is goes: Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring (with 175 credits) and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

First thing, is you need to settle down the "excitement" a tad. Deciding to pursue medicine is a slight misnomer. Right now you are in the infatuation stage of the relationship. Everything looks rosy and you know, for a fact, that you'd make a great doctor.

Now you need to start checking with reality. Objectively, what makes you a great fit in the profession? How many doctors have you shadowed? Not just watching procedures, but the piles of paperwork that's associated with it, or the phone calls to insurance companies because they don't think such and such was justified etc etc etc. Have you discussed with them the demands on their time, how some specialties make it difficult to have a "normal" life and relationship with someone?

How are your grades in the science pre-reqs? You have 175 hours total, which means there is little to no chance you will pull up your cGPA. Perhaps you can pursue DO retakes and improve your grades some. But you need to analyze and evaluate why you did so poorly in undergrad. What are the extenuating circumstances and have they been dealt with and overcome? Was it a maturity issue that needs a few years to out grow? You will be competing for a finite number of seats with people who have been busting their ass to make the grade on paper, so to speak. How do you differentiate yourself from them?

Like I said. Right now you are in "love" with the idea of medicine, but you need to look around and figure out if you are truly right for the career.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this directly. I do think it would be a good idea to challenge the idea yourself though. The process of deciding to go into medicine, waiting, waiting, waiting, applying and making it can be quite lengthy. Nothing about this is quick unfortunately and you've got to want it really stinking bad.

I look forward to reading about your progress on SDN!!

 

[aspiringDR24]

There seems to be a lot of downers on SDN lately, especially the person telling you all about how the paper work and the time committment is so horrible. Don't let anyone scare you off before you've even tried. The biggest thing that held me back during my non-traditional process was people telling me how difficult it was people (who were not doctors) telling me how awful it was to be a doctor. Given that you will graduate with over a 3.0 and still have the MCAT and pre-med classes to take i'd say you are in pretty good shape. Just be sure to do well on the MCAT and get as many A's as possible in those pre-med classes. Also work on your extra curriculars (shadow doctors, volunteer etc.) Just don't let anyone keep you down....and your GPA really isn't that terrible at this point.

 

[QofQuimica]

If these so-called negative posts from chiro and other users are all that's needed to discourage the OP from pursuing med school, then they've done him/her a huge favor. Not everyone who thinks they want to go to med school should go to med school, and not everyone who thinks they want to go to med school initially will still want to go to med school when they become more aware of what the day-to-day job entails. The point these "downer" posts are making is a good one: before any of you premeds start pursuing getting into med school, make sure you're getting a realistic look at the profession. Because the "how" to get into med school is ultimately much less complicated than the "why go.". And yes, there are plenty of aspects of this career that suck hard (as well as many that don't).

OP, like DrM said, you'd be wise to take a step back and ask these people why they think you can't get into med school. Maybe they have good reason to think that way, and maybe they don't. Either way, take what they say into consideration, decide whether you agree, and use the insight you've gained to move on from there. Best of luck. 🙂

 

[TriagePreMed]

First thing, is you need to settle down the "excitement" a tad. Deciding to pursue medicine is a slight misnomer. Right now you are in the infatuation stage of the relationship. Everything looks rosy and you know, for a fact, that you'd make a great doctor.

Now you need to start checking with reality. Objectively, what makes you a great fit in the profession? How many doctors have you shadowed? Not just watching procedures, but the piles of paperwork that's associated with it, or the phone calls to insurance companies because they don't think such and such was justified etc etc etc. Have you discussed with them the demands on their time, how some specialties make it difficult to have a "normal" life and relationship with someone?

How are your grades in the science pre-reqs? You have 175 hours total, which means there is little to no chance you will pull up your cGPA. Perhaps you can pursue DO retakes and improve your grades some. But you need to analyze and evaluate why you did so poorly in undergrad. What are the extenuating circumstances and have they been dealt with and overcome? Was it a maturity issue that needs a few years to out grow? You will be competing for a finite number of seats with people who have been busting their ass to make the grade on paper, so to speak. How do you differentiate yourself from them?

Like I said. Right now you are in "love" with the idea of medicine, but you need to look around and figure out if you are truly right for the career.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this directly. I do think it would be a good idea to challenge the idea yourself though. The process of deciding to go into medicine, waiting, waiting, waiting, applying and making it can be quite lengthy. Nothing about this is quick unfortunately and you've got to want it really stinking bad.

I look forward to reading about your progress on SDN!!

Listen to this person right here.

I'm in the applying stage after a massive comeback, and it has been a long, tedious journey. I'm not saying I regret it, but it sure is easier being imagined than actually having to do it. When people say to just do something else if you would be equally satisfied and happy, they are absolutely right. It would be so much easier to just work a 9-5 and make 80k+ than deal with all this stuff IF that 9-5 makes you just as happy.

 

[Courtjester8]

Do you mind my asking what happened that has you saying that medicine is your passion? I have to say, the split second "I just realized medicine is my passion!" type of posts always confuse me quite a bit. For me personally, this journey started from the realization that finance was not going to be a meaningful enough career for me. That led me to consider alternatives that would suit my attributes and ideals. Then eventually I said to myself "hey, medicine fits the bill pretty darn well. I wonder if I have what it takes." Took some premed classes and blew them away, enjoying the journey as I went. Then i realized that all that told me is that I would be good at and enjoy a career in the sciences. So I started getting my clinical experience, and even then, at first, I wasn't enamored. It took a couple months of getting to know patients, their stories, and witnessing their inner fortitude and the role of a physician in that context before I was finally able to sit down and say to myself "This is it. This is what I want to spend my life doing." We'll call it "informed passion." Thats where you want to get to before you start sending your life into an enormous upheaval that may just leave you with a pile of student debt and the realization that medicine wasn't quite right for you.

So, my suggested step 1 (different from my own path) is go shadow a physician for a bit to make sure. While you're doing that, you can start learning about all the hurdles (admissions process, the pace of med school, residency, etc) you'll have to pass, and the difficulty and commitment required of the task in front of you. At that point, if you're attitude is still gun-ho med school, you will find that the people on this site will become an unbelievably supportive and helpful group full of experience and wisdom that will help take you to where you need to be. As some of us are older, there's just a certain amount of hesitation that I for one have about sending someone straight into the front lines without them truly comprehending the realities of the struggle ahead. Hopefully that will help you understand why you didn't just get more of the "Congrats! Rock it, man! You'll knock em all dead" type of comments you were likely expecting.

cj8

 

[SyrianHero]

Do you mind my asking what happened that has you saying that medicine is your passion? I have to say, the split second "I just realized medicine is my passion!" type of posts always confuse me quite a bit. For me personally, this journey started from the realization that finance was not going to be a meaningful enough career for me. That led me to consider alternatives that would suit my attributes and ideals. Then eventually I said to myself "hey, medicine fits the bill pretty darn well. I wonder if I have what it takes." Took some premed classes and blew them away, enjoying the journey as I went. Then i realized that all that told me is that I would be good at and enjoy a career in the sciences. So I started getting my clinical experience, and even then, at first, I wasn't enamored. It took a couple months of getting to know patients, their stories, and witnessing their inner fortitude and the role of a physician in that context before I was finally able to sit down and say to myself "This is it. This is what I want to spend my life doing." We'll call it "informed passion." Thats where you want to get to before you start sending your life into an enormous upheaval that may just leave you with a pile of student debt and the realization that medicine wasn't quite right for you.

So, my suggested step 1 (different from my own path) is go shadow a physician for a bit to make sure. While you're doing that, you can start learning about all the hurdles (admissions process, the pace of med school, residency, etc) you'll have to pass, and the difficulty and commitment required of the task in front of you. At that point, if you're attitude is still gun-ho med school, you will find that the people on this site will become an unbelievably supportive and helpful group full of experience and wisdom that will help take you to where you need to be. As some of us are older, there's just a certain amount of hesitation that I for one have about sending someone straight into the front lines without them truly comprehending the realities of the struggle ahead. Hopefully that will help you understand why you didn't just get more of the "Congrats! Rock it, man! You'll knock em all dead" type of comments you were likely expecting.

cj8

I understand what you're saying but I went and shadowed a couple of doctors and I have done a lot of research on becoming a doctor and everything I learn motivates me and makes me realize that this is what I want to do. I just wanted to see if you thought my friends were reasonable in their assessment or not. I mean I've seen ppl with worse stats succeeded (it's obviously difficult) but the pushback from ppl was surprising to me.

 

[Courtjester8]

Well in that case there's two things your friends said to you that you mentioned

1.) You can't do it-- Do they mean you can't hack it? If so, you should probably ask yourself why they'd say that about you. Or do they mean its impossible given the 'hole' you've dug? If that's their stance, I'd say is born of ignorance more than anything. There are plenty of people on this site that have made similar comebacks.
2.) There's no way a medical school would accept you--Again, I don't think they necessarily know what they're talking about. Either that or perhaps they feel threatened. Who knows. The point is that, it's been done. So why not you?

As you keep going, you're going to run into more and more nay-sayers. You really just have to be confident enough in your abilities and resolve to push past it.

cj8

 

[CurlsandPearls]

I understand what you're saying but I went and shadowed a couple of doctors and I have done a lot of research on becoming a doctor and everything I learn motivates me and makes me realize that this is what I want to do. I just wanted to see if you thought my friends were reasonable in their assessment or not. I mean I've seen ppl with worse stats succeeded (it's obviously difficult) but the pushback from ppl was surprising to me.

I think it's difficult for anyone to say if they agree with your friends or not since we don't know you personally.

My personal opinion, as someone who has just started the pre-med track and is still new to this 😎 lol, is to keep taking the pre reqs and see how you do in those. Don't be too easily discouraged by what people say. But I think the other posters in this thread are correct about taking some time to assess why friends/doctors would suggest for you not to pursue medicine. My family has been 100% not supportive and not taking me seriously, it was really disheartening at first until I analyzed why they would be like that - which boiled down to finances. My parents aren't too keen on me staying in $chool for an additional year or two in order to raise my GPA/complete pre reqs. But in the grand scheme of things, that's a small concern, it's not like they discredit my ability/drive or something more serious.

Also, maybe the docs who have told you not to pursue medicine are just doctors who went into the field for the wrong reasons and ended up not really loving the profession, so now they try to discourage others. Just a side thought.

 

[SyrianHero]

Well in that case there's two things your friends said to you that you mentioned

1.) You can't do it-- Do they mean you can't hack it? If so, you should probably ask yourself why they'd say that about you. Or do they mean its impossible given the 'hole' you've dug? If that's their stance, I'd say is born of ignorance more than anything. There are plenty of people on this site that have made similar comebacks.
2.) There's no way a medical school would accept you--Again, I don't think they necessarily know what they're talking about. Either that or perhaps they feel threatened. Who knows. The point is that, it's been done. So why not you?

As you keep going, you're going to run into more and more nay-sayers. You really just have to be confident enough in your abilities and resolve to push past it.

cj8

When they say "you can't do it" they mean that my GPA hole is just too big to overcome for MD schools and that I'm delusional to think otherwise lol

 

[TriagePreMed]

When they say "you can't do it" they mean that my GPA hole is just too big to overcome for MD schools and that I'm delusional to think otherwise lol

As long as your GPA is above a 3.0, there's the chance for salvation by doing an SMP. If you don't mind doing D.O., I would recommend that you did a linkage post-bacc to get rid of any gap years and any worries of getting in.

 

[Law2Doc]

When they say "you can't do it" they mean that my GPA hole is just too big to overcome for MD schools and that I'm delusional to think otherwise lol

As others have mentioned, the GPA is not an insurmountable hurdle if you rock things from here on out. Maybe they are just ignorant regarding postbacs and SMPs. But when friends say you can't do something it sometimes reflects other aspects of your personal makeup that they have more insight into. I know quite a few people with much higher GPAs than you that i would want to steer away from medicine. For example, are you someone ready to pretty much focus on this for about 60-80 hours a week for the rest of your life, or is this just one of multitude of fleeting notions that you will be bored of in a week? They will know you better than us.

 

[johnnyscans]

When they say "you can't do it" they mean that my GPA hole is just too big to overcome for MD schools and that I'm delusional to think otherwise lol

I graduated with a < 3.0 cGPA and a pitiful <2.0 sGPA (due to me completely underestimating Calc I for engineers). I had a nice upward trend, but nothing spectacular. I was unfocused, undedicated and took classes for the sake of earning an $80,000 piece of paper.

Fast forward to today. I've completed 40 credits of postbacc work at 3.85 (all A/a-, not a single grade below), am finishing up a project for publication and have an extremely strong and diverse arsenal of EC activities. My sGPA is nearing a 3.5 and my cGPA is nearing 3.2. On paper, do my cGPA and sGPA put me at a disadvantage? Absolutely. Simply put, I'm too stubborn and focused now to accept anything but acceptance. When I started my postbacc work (first at a local 4-yr for 9 credits and the rest at Harvard Extension) even I doubted my ability to pull off all As. Remember, a 4.0 does not mean someone will be a good physician, and a 3.0 does not mean someone will be a bad physician.

Your friends will doubt you, your true friends and family will believe in you until the end. Work hard, never take no for an answer, and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

 

[EE12BMD]

Remember, a 4.0 does not mean someone will be a good physician, and a 3.0 does not mean someone will be a bad physician.

This is so true.... I've seen so many interns and new hires in the last 7 years, the best engineer wasn't the best student...

My advice to SyrianHero would be to ace the pre reqs, rock the MCAT and apply broadly. If you do poorly on the re-reqs and on the MCAT then you may want to re-think if you can make it through med school. At the end of the day the pre-reqs and MCAT is what's required for acceptance.... There are schools that look at the difficulty of your major.

There are lots of 'pre meds' on here that are always negative, the funny thing is that they are 'pre meds' and some may never even gain an acceptance....