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very late interview=bad/good?

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by CaMD, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. CaMD

    CaMD Senior Member
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    Hey all,

    So I'm sure this has been addressed 101 times, and my search did yield a few similar threads, but they were in other specialities (ie anesthesia).

    My question is this: Does interviewing veery late at a program (aka the very last date available) put you at a disadvantage?

    I would guess yes, cause maybe they already have a rank list in mind, maybe you have to look even more awesome b/c they've already seen/done it all? However the other threads thought maybe it was advantage cause you'd be remembered?

    A program I'm very interested in I'm interviewing super late (my own fault, I scheduled it that way) and now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I should try to move it up.
     
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  3. U4iA

    U4iA εὐφορία
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    i don't think it really makes a difference.

    in iserson's guide (which has been my tao te ching for residency), he suggests interviewing as late as possible for the programs you are most interested in so the program will remember you better and compare you to the real applicants rather than hypothetical ones (as interviewers compare you to the hypothetical best applicant if your interview too early).
     
  4. CaMD

    CaMD Senior Member
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    Thanks, U4iA. Here's hoping I measure up to other real applicants. ;) I'm going to officially not worry about it and just keep my original date.
     
  5. Chimed

    Physician 10+ Year Member

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    I would agree with the above post, but would add that it doesn't matter if you interview late or early. The only thing you should consider is what is the best time for you. One advantage that I can see to interviewing later is that you will more experience and your interview skills may be more polished.
     
  6. BobA

    BobA Member
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    B/c of what I'd read in Iserson's, and b/c I wanted to be more polished, I scheduled interviews at my initial "top" choices late.

    Now I'm running into the reality that I won't have much time for second looks and processing all that info before submitting my ROL. Ce la vie (I don't speak French)
     
  7. whopper

    whopper Former jolly good fellow
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    No one can possibly remember the dozens to even hundreds of candidates interviewed.

    At my own program, we did a slide show of each candidate & showed their average scores from our ratings. We also addressed any issues we had with that candidate good or bad. After we discussed, we rated all of the people we wanted for the Match.

    Some of the candidates were nixed--not even considered for the Match, which I thought wasn't prudent because some of them were decent & better to have one of them instead of someone who could just scramble in.

    Timing of the interviews didn't really make any difference as far as I could notice. The junior interviewers such as the Chief Residents never did this type of thing before, so Chiefs, such as myself at that time tended to be a little overly generous in our scoring because we felt more empathy for the candidates having been in that position before. However, after our first few rounds of candidates, we starting seeing certain traits we liked in candidates better than others.

    By the time we got to the slide show day--I told the program & director & coordinator & wanted to redo most of the scores I did in the beginning because I learned how to score more objectively as time went on.
     
  8. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    a related question I have is whether it's even worth your time to interview if you get a very late interview offer, with three or less of their often 10+ interview days still open.

    I would think that it wouldn't be worth your time. *shrug*
     
  9. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    I personally tried to hedge my bets by interviewing early, especially at programs that offered me interviews during earlier rounds, with plans to do second looks at my top 2-3 choices.
     
  10. CarleneM

    CarleneM patent pending
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    Now I'm wishing that all my interviews were super-late so I could not feel as pressured to do second looks since the season would be almost over. I like when they make it seem extremely option but I worry that some programs are using it to gauge interest and I just don't have the time or money to do them....I have read on here that it really doesn't make one more or less likely to match but it feels weird to turn down offers from places I love. I mean its like saying no to a second date but then proposing marriage, no?
     
  11. whopper

    whopper Former jolly good fellow
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    Only if you don't have that many interviews &/or the particular program is a very good one that you want to get into.

    I think not. Most program directors & coordinators have to read through hundreds of applications & don't have the time to manipulate a candidate in this manner at that stage of the game. Trust me, even if you got a sadistic PD who gets their jollies by intimidating candidates, it will not be by the timing of the invitation for a interview.

    If they were the sadistic type--they'll get you on the interview day with a demeaning & condescending pressure interivew.

    Most medstudents tend to fear this a bit more than it should be because their last major frame of reference in this manner was medschool interviews--where candidates are often more than 100 to 1 per spot with 90 of those 100 never getting in anywhere. In residency, and this does vary per program its more like 5 to 1 per spot, and 3 of those 5 will get into other programs.
     
  12. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    well keep in mind many Indians dont' even get the option of a second date before they have to get married.
     
  13. dianamd

    dianamd Member
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    well, in regard to what CarleneM said, the residency selection is like having a single date and then deciding to get married to the place -- or at least 3-4 years.

    About the Indians and second dates, I would add that it is a small minority of Indians that don't get a second date before they "have to" get married.

    Central to arranged marriage is the goal of selecting the best match to one or both families. Like most of us with the second looks, most families are wise enough to have more than one meeting before arranging a marriage. Not necessarily because the parents are being wise or caring (though that may be part of it), but out of common sense and pragmatic thinking.

    Today "arranged marriage" is more likely to be an "arranged meeting" (I thought this was a common perception now, but maybe not.) Arranged meetings can be based on things like profession, family background, height, etc., but then you see if the two people can actually form a decent match.

    This is probably not the place for a discussion of arranged marriage, but I have heard so many misconceptions that I had to say this.

    On the original topic of late interviews:
    - For "top programs" it probably does not make a difference. They will rank the best candidates highly no matter what.
    - For medium or lower ranked programs, it may be relatively harder for a late interview to "break into" the list of people ranked to match. Whether they are creating an informal rolling list (as even top programs must to do some extent) or what.

    The upside of interviewing late is perspective, experience, and possibly even some new accomplishment (publication etc.) The downside is that you can't do a second look or have time to think about a program....

    I am interviewing everywhere quite early, because thinking about the programs, revisiting if necessary, talking with residents and mentors -- is exactly what I need to do.

    Also, for those interviewing late, don't fall into the classic trap of ranking your last program #1 -- get perspective.

    Good luck to all! ;)
     
  14. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    oops forgot a smiley. That was a tongue in cheek comment.

    I will say that arranged meeting is indeed the norm and has been for quite a while at this point. It was becoming pretty commonplace in my parents' generation.

    I will also say that while it often produces stable, affectionate, and supportive matches, it rarely produces the kind of 'love' that both western and eastern societies alike romanticize.
     
  15. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon
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    Yeah, but you can always go to the movies for that! :D
     
  16. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    blech. Bollywood camera work, art direction, and set building, is fantastic these days. Truly stunning. They still haven't learned the art of writing a compelling story, though.
     
  17. kstotes

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    I had two impressions from my interviewing process...

    1. I was crap in my first interview. I was so nervous and so focused on looking good that I wasn't able to really get a proper impression of the program. I was asking canned questions, not one's that really mattered to me. By the time I hit my last interviews, I was cool as the other side of the pillow- my answers were succinct and focused and I knew them so well I even had time to figure out how to add dramatic pauses and facial expressions to really hammer home my ideas. I also had already answered every tough question about my CV multiple times so I could take those in stride. Bottom line, by my last interview I could have taught a class in how to be a good interviewee... which I did a few months later.

    2. My January interviews didn't have a CHANCE of me going there. By the time I hit January I had interviewed at 7 programs. I had already started to fall in love with two and seriously considering holding hands with another. Maybe its just me, but once you get your heart set on a place it is hard to let that go and objectively look at other places. I found myself turning off an hour into the interview day and I'm sure my disinterest showed. Point being... the first program I interviewed at in retrospect was not very strong, yet I came away saying "wow that was great I think I want to go there", my last interview was a very good program and I came away saying "eh its nothing compared to my top ranked program". Luckily I had the luxury of being pretty certain my top 2 would work out, but from those 2 down I had no idea about how the programs liked me because I didn't have the motivation to woo those programs like I did my top 2 (2nd visits, calls to PD, letters, emails to residents, etc). Had I ended up not getting my top choice it could have hurt me to put strong programs in January because I didn't end up giving them a fair shake. I'm not sure what this Tao de Residency book is, but my rec to applicants has always been to schedule your top interviews in November or December- after you've had a few interviews but before you've set your heart on a place and gone home for the holidays and told your whole family you won't be home next Christmas.

    I do agree that I don't think programs care when you interview but for your own mental approach I think this is better.

    "That's all I have to say about that"
     

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