Very Non-traditional Re-Applicant

[Ehtar Moriarty]

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I have been applpying to Medical School for 4 years. The first year, Fall '07, I had a 27M on the MCAT and a 2.83. Obviously didn't get any good results. I retook the MCAT and got a 35N. I applied, fall '08 to only my in-state school, Univ. of Arizona and didn't even get a secondary. I started grad school and finished the first year with a 4.0 in my Molecular and Cellular Biology MS program. I applied again, Fall '09, only to U of A, got a secondary but no interview. Later that year I applied to Midwestern Glendale D.O. very late, got an interview and waitlisted. I applied very very early to both Midwestern and U of A this cycle, Fall '10. I interviewed in September at Midwestern, interview went very poorly and I was not surprised to be rejected. Interview in October at both U of A campuses, Phoenix went well, and Tucson interview was literally perfect, I mean I couldn't have pre-scripted a better interview. That December I graduated with an M.S. in Molecular and Cellular Biology with a 3.6. I sent an update letter to both U of A schools. I got rejected from both.

I have a shadowed both a Radiologist and a Surgeon for a day. Clocked in 100 ER volunteer hours. I have a baller PS statement, anybody who reads it just says "wow". I regularly visit a rest home with my dog for therapy visits. While applying to Medical School I worked full time doing research, got married, and bought a house. I got published as an undergraduate. Right now I am teaching Biology at the College and High School level, just as an inbetween as I wasn't sure if I was getting to med school this cycle. I guess I just have a few questions and any advice is really appreciated.

Is this really a result of only applying to 3 schools over a 3 year period and that if I apply to 20 schools next year, some school is really going to love my progress/me and I am just not the right fit for these three schools?

What do I do now? I am think about teaching anatomy and phys here next year, becoming an emt is another thought as well as doing a SMP.... my BCPM were not that bad. B+ and C in Organic, A- and B+ in Physics, B and C in Chm, and Two A's in Gen Bio...... I kinda don't see the point in repeating any undergrad courses.

 

[startswithb]

GPA. Even with your masters GPA, which unfortunately is a traditional program and not a SMP and only a 3.6, it's just too low. It sounds like you have a regional preference, and I believe there are 2 DO schools in AZ, so it would be wise to take advantage of their grade replacement policy and get your overall GPA to at least a 3.0.

Your MCAT is great, so with a 3.0 ugrad, 3.6 masters, and 35N, I think you'd have a much better chance than with a 2.83. Some schools have automatic cutoffs at the 3.0 mark so this could be a problem. You mention at the end of your post that there is no point to retaking undergrad courses? Well for DO schools it'll give you a huge GPA boost!

If you don't want to go DO then you could gamble on MD by taking more undergraduate courses and raising your uGPA to over a 3.0 and apply to SMP programs. Ace the program and you may have a shot, especially if your SMP has linkage to its own program.

Clinical experience. It's weak. Only 100 hours over 4 years just seems low. You've been busy with your personal life, but you should still try to earn more clinical hours and possibly try more well-rounded activities. Do you have any hobbies to which you devote a significant amount of time? Do you have volunteer interests outside of clinical medicince? I think your teaching experience will be highly valued, so that's good.

School selection. Yes, it's a big gamble to apply to too few schools. Although I'm not sure it would have made that much of a difference with the very low GPA.

These are just my recommendations as an observer. I would highly suggest GPA repair above all. Good luck and don't give up!

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

GPA. These are just my recommendations as an observer. I would highly suggest GPA repair above all. Good luck and don't give up!

Hey thanks for the input. I really hate to think it is GPA, considering the 3.6 Masters. As far as hobbies that I have empasized, training my dogs for obedience and taking them for therapy visits to a rest home, I just started brewing beer so that will be adde in, I also taught MCAT biology prep for the past two years. I am going to start giving pastoral care to the sick...... wonder if the religious volunteer activity will be looked down on. And I am no longer committed to the southwest for medical school. And you think the high school and college teaching will be looked highly upon, because I am considering staying on at the high school to teach anatomy and phys next year.......
Thanks

 

[Total180]

Your undergrad gpa and your grad gpa are looked at very differently...especially at MD schools. Graduate degrees are looked at more of like a good EC than a gpa booster because grad schools are notorious for grade inflation, and there really isn't a way to gauge if your gpa is inflated or not. With the 3.6 in a graduate program, it might even hurt you a tiny bit. Your undergraduate gpa and your MCAT are the two academic factors that are considered the most. You really really need to get your undergrad gpa up to at least a 3.0. If it isn't at a lot of places your application will probably get immediately tossed by a computer, and the rest of your application will never be looked at by human eyes. I think continuing to teach will be a good thing, as well as maybe getting some volunteer hours in while you are taking some more classes. If you want to focus primarily on DO schools (you probably have a better shot here) I would retake any classes you got a C or lower in. DO schools replace the first grade with the new one, so it is the fastest way to raise your gpa. MD schools just add the class into the gpa like any other, so it would be smarter to take new, upper level science courses to show that you have worked through your prior issues. I think continuing to teach is a good idea, as well as getting in any clinical volunteer hours you can while you are taking classes. Apply broadly, and I think you have a chance. I would get started as soon as possible doing some of these things so you can put them on your application if you are applying this year. You want to do everything you can to get in this cycle because your MCAT is probably going to expire if you have used it for 2 cycles already (most schools only accept an MCAT 3 years old). Good luck!

 

[0919mmk]

Yeah man- its clearly an issue with your undergrad GPA. Grad schools basically ignore your masters GPA (unless it's below 3.5, in which case they will pretty much reject you).

Your MCAT is bomb - you need to do 2 things.

1) Take some undergrad-level classes, and get your GPA to >3.0 at least.

2) Apply to 20 MD schools and 10 DO schools! Your biggest issue is applying to so few schools- that's crazy! The top applicants apply to 18 schools, get 10 interviews, and 3 acceptances (i.e. ~70% schools give interviews to them, and of those ~30% turn in to accepts).

People like you and me with, essentially, bottom-of-the-barrel GPAs, need to apply very widely to MD and DO schools, and kill the MCAT.

Be aware also that your MCAT is only really good for 2 years. i.e. if you took your MCAT in 2009, this summer is the last year that it's still valid. If this affects you, start working on restudying for the MCAT. Good luck man.

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

Yeah man- its clearly an issue with your undergrad GPA. Grad schools basically ignore your masters GPA (unless it's below 3.5, in which case they will pretty much reject you).

Your MCAT is bomb - you need to do 2 things.

1) Take some undergrad-level classes, and get your GPA to >3.0 at least.

2) Apply to 20 MD schools and 10 DO schools! Your biggest issue is applying to so few schools- that's crazy! The top applicants apply to 18 schools, get 10 interviews, and 3 acceptances (i.e. ~70% schools give interviews to them, and of those ~30% turn in to accepts).

People like you and me with, essentially, bottom-of-the-barrel GPAs, need to apply very widely to MD and DO schools, and kill the MCAT.

Be aware also that your MCAT is only really good for 2 years. i.e. if you took your MCAT in 2009, this summer is the last year that it's still valid. If this affects you, start working on restudying for the MCAT. Good luck man.

I totally agree with you about the lack of applying to schools. My wife and I were trying to stick it out and see if we could stay in Phoenix for med-school. So I will definitely be applying to more schools.

-I have a unique problem with taking a few courses to boost my undergraduate GPA. I was kind of a bad student for 4 YEARS and then decided to turn my life around to go to Med-School, I then basically had to do a Bio degree from scratch as I didn't have a lot of credits I could use for that degree. In 3 years I turned a 2.0 into a 2.8 taking very science heavy 18 credit hour semesters. My problem is I have 178 Undergraduate Credit Hours!!!! It will take more than a couple classes to raise that GPA.

-Should I do an accelerated MPH Masters offered from my local Medical School?


Thank you everyone for the help and support.

 

[EWO]

I totally agree with you about the lack of applying to schools. My wife and I were trying to stick it out and see if we could stay in Phoenix for med-school. So I will definitely be applying to more schools.

-I have a unique problem with taking a few courses to boost my undergraduate GPA. I was kind of a bad student for 4 YEARS and then decided to turn my life around to go to Med-School, I then basically had to do a Bio degree from scratch as I didn't have a lot of credits I could use for that degree. In 3 years I turned a 2.0 into a 2.8 taking very science heavy 18 credit hour semesters. My problem is I have 178 Undergraduate Credit Hours!!!! It will take more than a couple classes to raise that GPA.

-Should I do an accelerated MPH Masters offered from my local Medical School?


Thank you everyone for the help and support.

WOW, I have very similar issue. I, too, have 172 hours and of those 102 are science based with a low gpa, 2.9 overall, 2.84 science I too, have been told to take more undergraduate courses to raise this with 3-4 semesters of full-time upper-level science. Well for me, financially, this is not feasible. What I have decided to do is this:

Take (15hrs) of lower-level science this summer. The school I attend do not offer any upper-division science that I have not already taken and made a B or so in. By taking these courses and making an A in them, I can theoretically raise my science and overall to 3.0...which is better but still very low.

Additionally, this summer I will study the MCAT...which is no issue for you. you are blessed!?!

I will be applying to a basic science masters for the Fall at my current university. I know many people object, but I am going forward and also applying to about 20 M.D. schools and about 10 D.O. schools...I do not expect much love from the M.D. schools with such a low gpa but thank God for D.O. schools. At this point in my life, at 25, and with so many credit hours, there really isnt much I can do in my financial situation limits A LOT

With your MCAT, I'm no expert at advice, but I would roll the dice this year and apply. You are doing great, by teaching, and have did great with your MCAT

After awhile the ugrad gpa gets to be an area of diminishing returns, and really after a 4yr degree it is not moving much. Case and point, it will take about 60-70 hours for my gpa to even break a 3.4...which still is below the average of 3.6+

So If I were you, just apply more broadly and early and sit back and watch the interviews come in!

Good Luck!

EWO

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

WOW, I have very similar issue. I, too, have 172 hours and of those 102 are science based with a low gpa, 2.9 overall, 2.84 science I too, have been told to take more undergraduate courses to raise this with 3-4 semesters of full-time upper-level science. Well for me, financially, this is not feasible. What I have decided to do is this:

Take (15hrs) of lower-level science this summer. The school I attend do not offer any upper-division science that I have not already taken and made a B or so in. By taking these courses and making an A in them, I can theoretically raise my science and overall to 3.0...which is better but still very low.

Additionally, this summer I will study the MCAT...which is no issue for you. you are blessed!?!

I will be applying to a basic science masters for the Fall at my current university. I know many people object, but I am going forward and also applying to about 20 M.D. schools and about 10 D.O. schools...I do not expect much love from the M.D. schools with such a low gpa but thank God for D.O. schools. At this point in my life, at 25, and with so many credit hours, there really isnt much I can do in my financial situation limits A LOT

With your MCAT, I'm no expert at advice, but I would roll the dice this year and apply. You are doing great, by teaching, and have did great with your MCAT

After awhile the ugrad gpa gets to be an area of diminishing returns, and really after a 4yr degree it is not moving much. Case and point, it will take about 60-70 hours for my gpa to even break a 3.4...which still is below the average of 3.6+

So If I were you, just apply more broadly and early and sit back and watch the interviews come in!

Good Luck!

EWO

Thanks, I think I am going to do an SMP anyway and hope for the best!