Very 'non-traditional', what is my chance?

[yusanshui]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you could give me some suggestions or a reality check..

I am very 'non-traditional', in the sense I obtained my B.S in a international university ( a top-ranking one,but not in the U.S, GPA 3.85). I have a MPH in a US university with GPA 4.0, but I guess it does not mean too much in M.D application.

Have 2 scientific publications, 2 years of cancer therapy research, 1 year of epidemiological research. 1 year of hospital volunteer, 40+ shadowing hours and have health-related working experience in Asian and Europe.

I am currently taking some pre-med courses in a community college since most medical schools only recognize U.S courses for pre-med requirements.

My biggest concern is my 'non-traditional' undergrad, I will not have a AMCAS standard GPA... so, would you please provide me some suggestion about how to improve my application, as well as which schools should I aim?

Thanks so much.

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[Goro]

The key thing is whether your undergrad credits transfer to US standards. ie, is your school accredited in the US? Your MPH may count more than you think. As a non-native English speaker, your MCAT performance will definitely count.

Have you chatted with pre-med advisors at your current school?

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you could give me some suggestions or a reality check..

I am very 'non-traditional', in the sense I obtained my B.S in a international university ( a top-ranking one,but not in the U.S, GPA 3.85). I have a MPH in a US university with GPA 4.0, but I guess it does not mean too much in M.D application.

Have 2 scientific publications, 2 years of cancer therapy research, 1 year of epidemiological research. 1 year of hospital volunteer, 40+ shadowing hours and have health-related working experience in Asian and Europe.

I am currently taking some pre-med courses in a community college since most medical schools only recognize U.S courses for pre-med requirements.

My biggest concern is my 'non-traditional' undergrad, I will not have a AMCAS standard GPA... so, would you please provide me some suggestion about how to improve my application, as well as which schools should I aim?

Thanks so much.

 

[yusanshui]

Thank Goro for your reply!

Based on the evaluation of a well-established agency, my university is equivalent to a US university, and I believe so, since it is a top-ranking one in the world, and it is a English teaching institution. But all these won't matter too much to AMCAS, since they just don't verify non-US transcript. I hope medical school could consider it on a case-by-case basis. But, how much disadvantage do you think this is? Can I somehow overcome it by my ECs, MPH and the retaking pre-med?

I don't have a pre-med advisors in this community college, that's why I turn help in SDN..

Thanks again!

The key thing is whether your undergrad credits transfer to US standards. ie, is your school accredited in the US? Your MPH may count more than you think. As a non-native English speaker, your MCAT performance will definitely count.

Have you chatted with pre-med advisors at your current school?

 

[Catalystik]

A nice summary about an International getting into US med school: 5/18/08

You'll basically find the following types of medical school: 1. Those that want 60-90 credits completed in the U.S. with those credits to include chemistry, biology, physics, organic chemistry, and sometimes English. These schools are most common. Sometimes completion of the prerequisite courses alone with satisfy the Admissions Committee and they'll let you slide if you have a M.S. or a Ph.D. (with a decent GPA) from the U.S.
2. Those that want an entire U.S. undergraduate degree earned from scratch (Mayo Clinic springs to mind). These schools are uncommon.
3. Those that want 60-90 credits completed in the U.S., and the credits can be a mix of graduate school credits and one or two scattered prerequisites. If you look hard enough, you'll find a handful of these schools. This is the route that I took, but keep in mind that no two applicants look the same and so conditions will vary.
4. Those that want 60-90 credits completed in the U.S. and they won't make you do the prerequisites over. These medical schools are VERY hard to find, and usually a political connection at the school makes this possible.

If you want to bypass studying for a U.S. undergraduate degree, some colleges will allow you to roll several years of foreign undergraduate credits on a 'pass' basis into a an accelerated U.S. undergraduate degree, and you may only get away with taking the prerequisites over 18 months. Find BlueMirage on SDN. This is what he did, and he successfully gained admission, too.

In all of the above cases, a professional evaluated transcript of the foreign credits will generally be expected. AMCAS will not verify those grades, but several medical schools will add them to your file.

All of the above information also assumes that the applicant has a green card or U.S. citizenship; without that, the level of difficulty in securing admission for each of the above cases should be multiplied several fold.

A U.S. Ph.D. - even with a nice GPA - does not carry a whole lot of clout with U.S. medical schools. This is from first-hand experience. Neither do prerequisite courses earned overseas - even if it's from a 'prestigious' school. This is also from first-hand experience. Publications do help for some of the private, research-oriented medical schools but, again, you really have to look as close to a U.S. applicant as possible. PM me if you have any other worries. I've posted a lot on this subject and I don't want to start sounding like a broken record. Good luck!

I'll add to this that there are a few schools that only require 30 credit hours earned in the US or Canada, like Yale and UChicago, a number of California schools, and Einstein.

 

[yusanshui]

Thank you Catalystik,

With my MPH credits and those pre-req I am taking in CC, I will have around 90 credits in the US.

Another thing is, since my undergrad is majored in Biology, I plan to bypass the pre-req for basic biology. By the time I apply, I will be able to complete most of pre-req with one or two lack of (if med school take my foreign courses, I will definitely have all). Not sure if that will be a issue? most school allow applicants continue taking pre-req during the application year.

A nice summary about an International getting into US med school: 5/18/08 I'll add to this that there are a few schools that only require 30 credit hours earned in the US or Canada, like Yale and UChicago, a number of California schools, and Einstein.

 

[Catalystik]

since my undergrad is majored in Biology, I plan to bypass the pre-req for basic biology. By the time I apply, I will be able to complete most of pre-req with one or two lack of (if med school take my foreign courses, I will definitely have all). Not sure if that will be a issue? most school allow applicants continue taking pre-req during the application year.

It's true that there are schools that require all prerequisites to be completed either before application, or before January of the application year. I'm glad you're aware of that.

There are also schools that expire undergrad coursework after a certain number of years.

Many schools will be rigid about the basic biology classes. It would be best to call schools individually and inquire about their expectations. Did you look into trying to get your foreign coursework transferred to your current school as Goro suggested? It sounds like you already have had a transcript evaluation service "translate" it into US equivalents.

 

[yusanshui]

Hi Catalystik,

Thanks again, forgot to mention that I did study one sem during my junior year in US as a exchange student, during which I took 4 upper level biology, so that may exempt me from taking basic biology.

If the med school review my foreign transcript, they will see lots of upper level biology classes that I have taken to earn my B.S in biology. So, I decided to bypass biology and devote more time towards other pre-req and MCAT while I am still working full-time now. So really hard to be a 'non-traditional' student....

It's true that there are schools that require all prerequisites to be completed either before application, or before January of the application year. I'm glad you're aware of that.

There are also schools that expire undergrad coursework after a certain number of years.

Many schools will be rigid about the basic biology classes. It would be best to call schools individually and inquire about their expectations. Did you look into trying to get your foreign coursework transferred to your current school as Goro suggested? It sounds like you already have had a transcript evaluation service "translate" it into US equivalents.

 

[Catalystik]

So really hard to be a 'non-traditional' student....

Yes, especially when every med school has it's own policies.

 

[yusanshui]

Hi Catalystik, would you please recommend some 'fit' schools based on my stat? My top two dream schools are UWashington (a resident of WA) and Yale (got MPH there). These two are really good schools, so what other ones do you think i have a chance? those that are 'international' friendly?

Thanks.

Yes, especially when every med school has it's own policies.

 

[Catalystik]

Your application GPAs and MCAT score both help determine appropriate target schools, so right now it's impossible to say.

For now, you can start to develop a list of schools willing to consider international applicants: US Schools Policies on taking Internationals: http://www.naahp.org/Default.aspx?tabid=2559

Then get a copy of the MSAR so you can see how many internationals each school interviews and matriculates and what each school's median acceptee GPAs and MCAT are, which will be helpful once you know what your stats are.

You could also download SDN's Free Matriculant Data google spreadsheet which already has every school's average matriculant stats at: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmKVGWwobG5GdEx2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

 

[yusanshui]

Hi Catalystik,

Thank you again! I checked the link you posted, it is for international students (aka, non-resident/non-citizen), a bit different from my case, since I am a permanent resident,but with foreign undergrad degree.....

I think right now, I should just focus on getting a decent MCAT score!

Your application GPAs and MCAT score both help determine appropriate target schools, so right now it's impossible to say.

For now, you can start to develop a list of schools willing to consider international applicants: US Schools Policies on taking Internationals: http://www.naahp.org/Default.aspx?tabid=2559

Then get a copy of the MSAR so you can see how many internationals each school interviews and matriculates and what each school's median acceptee GPAs and MCAT are, which will be helpful once you know what your stats are.

You could also download SDN's Free Matriculant Data google spreadsheet which already has every school's average matriculant stats at: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmKVGWwobG5GdEx2MjlBTDE0bXFXNGFZczZqYTZKb2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

 

[Catalystik]

Thank you again! I checked the link you posted, it is for international students (aka, non-resident/non-citizen), a bit different from my case, since I am a permanent resident,but with foreign undergrad degree.....

Ah, sorry, you had asked for "international friendly," so I responded to that inquiry. As a permanent resident, you are actually going to be looked at as the same as a US citizen who did undergrad abroad (which we've seen here on SDN), so you don't have to worry about that.